Has He Changed?

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#1 Jan 24 - 5AM
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Has He Changed?

You know, I know what my soon to be ex N is about. I lived with him for 30 years so I should. Filed for divorce last May, he got the GF in June. Got serious like two weeks later. He's currently whisked her off on another trip while I'm in the marital home taking care of everything.

Fast forward. I've been in therapy since August and it is helping alot. One of the harder things is that I continuously revert back to thinking he's changed based on his behavior with the GF. As the relationship with her continues and she hasn't run away screaming yet I wonder "maybe he really did change." He stopped hitting me 10 years ago when I tried to divorce the first time. So I think to myself that he is capable of change. But yet, his threatening behavior continued and his gaslighting, verbal abuse, etc. continued.

I'm a smart woman and for the life of me can't figure out why I often think he may have changed and why I can't firmly believe that he has not. Any suggestions how to flip the switch on this thinking pattern? I mean, how long is it going to take until I stop entertaining the notion he's changed?

Jan 24 - 4PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

doubtful

are you in therapy with a Trauma Counselor? You need to deprogram because it sounds like you still are somewhat 'Trauma Bonded.' http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2007/03/abusive-behavior-have-they-really.html http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2005/10/emotional-memory-management-positive.html http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2006/10/girls-guide-to-avoiding-emotional.html http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2006/11/if-he-really-wants-to-change.html http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/03/18/married-n-and-waiting-good-times-return he may be on his best behavior with the GF for a while. Once you're apart - watch this change. ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 25 - 5AM (Reply to #14)
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Doubtful

Barbara - with a therapist who knows about narcissists and she tells me like it is, but not with a trauma counselor. Based on many things I've told her she has advised I suffer from PTSD and we are working on that too. Thank you for the links. I will read them. I'm thinking that when I am no longer around him and out of the marital home I will improve dramatically. I hope. :-)
Jan 25 - 6AM (Reply to #15)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

hikejunkie

it takes about 1 1/2 to 2 years to start to feel like yourself again, but you will. What are your plans for getting out? ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 25 - 7AM (Reply to #16)
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Barbara

I filed for divorce in May last year and am still stuck in the marital home. We settled on 12/21 and then he sent in documents completely disregarding what was agreed upon. I am waiting for my attorney's response to the 22 line items that were wrong and then will see what happens. Conference with a judge is set for 2/17. There was so much wrong with the document that my future and than of my son would be terribly jeopardized. I can't get out because I remain responsible for the bills in the house. Plus, he is buying me out and I need the funds in order to move. If the judge released me from the marital debt I could rent somewhere but it would not be in town and I would have to leave my son with the maniac and I won't do that. So, I wait. I continue with therapy. And I continue to despise the worthless excuse for a human being.
Jan 25 - 8AM (Reply to #17)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

hikejunkie

LEAN on your attorney. LEAN ON THEM. Be a 'friendly pest.' Make SURE they know what your being there is doing to your mental & physical health. Good luck! ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 25 - 8AM (Reply to #18)
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Barbara

Oh, I do, thanks. She's great - just what I really needed. Kind of what would happen if a tiger and pit bull mated. She's advocated for me when I've felt like giving up because of exhaustion. She is upfront and honest with me about what I am entitled to and that's what I'm fighting for. There is nothing that I am asking for that I don't deserve for me and my son. Problem is the N thinks everything is his and doesn't want to part with the material things that define him. She is very aware of the state of my physical and mental health and if we go to the judge on the 17th it will be mentioned. Thanks for the good luck wishes.
Jan 24 - 1PM
Steph
Steph's picture

Gaslighting, verbal abuse,

Gaslighting, verbal abuse, threatening behaviour are not things a person does only with certain partners. That is his character. It is who he is. Doesn't change just because he's with someone new. She'll get the same from him that you did. Maybe she already is. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. It's hard to look at things objectively when you have feelings attached to something. Listen to what the people here tell you. They can see things from an outsiders perspective, not clouded with feeling, and can give you REALISITC perspective. He has not changed!
Jan 24 - 11AM
Patsy
Patsy's picture

Hikejunkie

Hi, hikejunkie. We seem to be taking a parallel journey. I too have been married for thirty years and am just now filing for divorce. Twelve years ago I tried to divorce him, and allowed myself to get sucked back in by guilt. We also co-own a business wich made it harder for me to get out from under -- and impossible to come even close to going no-contact. He hasn't laid a hand on me since 1990, but since taking him back he went into high gear to destroy the dreams I put on hold to build his business. He also very slickly tried to destroy my children because he knows how much they mean to me. Sometimes I think we want to believe they've changed as a defense mechanism. It's one thing to get over the notion that you wasted a few years of your life on someone evil... But thirty freaking years?! Not easy to swallow. I think the more devastaion they leave in their wake -- the harder they have to work to prove to the new woman... that it was you not them. You and I both know that any change in behavior they exhibit is only temporary -- a show to keep their prey in line. We know this. He's only stepping up his game because there's a woman out there (you) with a thirty year history of him... and his abusive ways. He's never going to change. We can. And we should be thankful that we didn't continue this mistake all the way to our graves. Can you even begin to imagine spending your Golden years with that asshole X of yours? I can't. One thing that separates us from them, is the ability to learn from our mistakes. Please don't doubt the lesson it took the bulk of a lifetime to learn. Fuk him. We deserve much, much better than they will ever be able to offer. Stay strong, hikejunkie. And I will too. We'll just keep putting one foot in front of the other -- and eventually the fog will clear. There are better days ahead, than the days we're leaving behind. Lots of Love, Patsy
Jan 24 - 9AM
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Has He Changed?

Hey everyone - thanks for your replies. It helps. I'm still stuck in the marital home so no contact is not even possible. I pretty much hide in the guest room, which is my room for over a year when he's home. When I do need to communicate, it is done via email and even then not one, and I mean not ONE email has come back without some kind of little dig in it. I have to communicate because we have a 15yo son but otherwise I have nothing to say to him. My therapist has also told me that he only stopped hitting because he knew he couldn't anymore without consequences. And, yeah, the rest of the abuse picked up but I'm only aware of this in hindsight. I didn't see it back then. He made so many promises to reconcile. He didn't keep any of them. He actually would deny making the promises (gaslighting). I truly thought I was going crazy and was going to end up in a psych ward. We settled the divorce on 12/21. I got his settlement papers and they were completely different than what we settled on. He reverted back to crap that no judge in the world would side with. So, my attorney will have our response to him this week. I want to get out and it seems like he wants to keep me here to take care of things while he does whatever the hell he wants to.
Jan 24 - 8AM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Has he changed?

The psychiatrist I saw, told me: "A person can change behaviors, but not their personality." So, your husband stopped beating you 10 years ago! Beating is a behavior. He changed his behavior because the consequence of beating you to him (NOT YOU) was that you would divorce him, thus, causing him financial discomfort & loss of a housekeeper, as well as, a punching bag. At that time it was in his best interests to stop the behavior of beating his wife. However, his abusive personality was still satisfied by threatening, gaslighting, and verbal abuse behaviors. So did his personality really change, or did he simply abandon a behavior (beating) which was an expression of his abusive (possibly narcissistic) personality disorder? Don't kid yourself. As for new woman being swept away on vacations? Whatever. Once she's hooked, he'll start his abuse. Maybe not beating because he learned with you that beating his woman can cause himself some discomfort. Not a good behavior. Look, as a toddler, I stuck some toy in a light socket. I was really, really small. But, I still remember. Too much discomfort to me do that again. Do you think I ever gave a thought that I could have short-circuited the whole power system in the house? Do you think I gave a damn as to the consequences to the house? Nope. Just what I wanted to do caused me too much discomfort & I was not going to do that again. You still don't really know him for what he is. Because you are still thinking that you somehow deserved his abusive behavior. If you were just better (like new woman) you, too, would have been whisked off on vactions. If you had been better . . . you would have changed him (just like you imagine new woman has). Stop that. No contact. Do not know what he is doing with new woman. You & your lawyer get as much money & compensation as you can. Delete his file. Don't waste another precious moment on this jerk.
Jan 24 - 9AM (Reply to #9)
ForeverLearning
ForeverLearning's picture

They Can Change Behaviors, But Not Personality - Awesome!!

You gave excellent advice when you said: The psychiatrist I saw, told me: "A person can change behaviors, but not their personality." That is short, sweet, to the point, and it seems to me, 100% truth. Makes perfect sense to me. I just hadn't ever heard it put that way. Thank you for stating that Agnes! And I liked your light socket story, that was a GREAT story as well. Puts things in perspective SO WELL, they really think all about themselves, and only the consequences for THEM, not for others. Thanks.
Jan 24 - 7AM
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

just because...

...she hasn't run away screaming yet doesn't mean that things are ok. Someone who is physically violent?? No way are those kind of people truly capable of real change. Because it's hard for you to grasp all this doesn't mean you're not smart. It's hard for any of us to wrap our head around very abnormal, disturbing behavior...and that's a good thing we can't. You lived with him for 30 years, you filed for divorce recently. Unfortunately, there is not quick fix to this. Healing takes time, work, and commitment. There are lots of recommendations on this site on how to help your recovery. Please keep reading...and hopefully, you have a good therapist who gets this stuff.
Jan 24 - 8AM
ForeverLearning
ForeverLearning's picture

Coming To Peace With It All Takes Time

So, you are wondering if he has changed. And of course you are curious about whether he changed - you were with him for 30 years! He was a large part of your life. It is natural you are curious, now that he has a girlfriend that he "whisks" away on trips..... it is natural you are wondering what is going on with this man. Wondering if he has changed. Lets pretend you had a project you worked on for 30 years, say restoring an old car. And for the 30 years that you put all your energy into the old car trying to get it to run right, it just never did. It gave you a terrible electric shock sometimes when your turned the ignition key to start it. It sputtered and died out on you at the worst times, like when you were trying to get onto the freeway - a dangerous time to have your car die out on you! So finally after all this time, you got REALLY PISSED OFF, and you said, after 30 years - to HELL with it. I'm selling this damn piece of SH*T car. For 30 years I tried to get it to run right, it never would, so F*CK it. I'm done. But then after you sell it, you find out something really strange. You hear that the person who bought it, is riding around just fine, - heck, they even take it on long trips. It leaves you scratching your head - what the hell did they do to get the car to run right? What did they do that I didn't do? Bottom line - you may never know. And damn it, who cares!! Another bottom line - it doesnt matter anymore. You have to focus on your new life, your newfound freedom, peace and happiness, and on ENJOYING IT. Or you will remain unhappy, even with the bastard GONE. The truth is, I'd bet the farm that this car is going to conk out on the new owner (girlfriend)sometime down the road, at the worst time, and she too will want to sell this car. Just a matter of time. Let's hope she abandons this old junker on the side of the road and they tow it to the scrap yard to be crushed so it never harms another driver again! hee hee. By the way......I can tell you why he stopped hitting you when you threatened divorce 10 years ago. It's because THAT IS HOW PSYCHOPATHS OPERATE. He did what he needed to do to keep you back then. So the physical abuse stopped. You said the gaslighting and mental/emotional abuse continued. I'll bet it increased quite a bit since he couldn't get away with hitting you anymore. And I'll bet it sucked almost as bad, if not worse. Headgames hurt alot too. They make you question your sanity and your entire view of the world. I know, I lived it too. Bottom line, he is a manipulator. Honestly, he is most likely ONLY taking the girlfriend on the trips TO PISS YOU OFF AND HURT YOU. She has no idea this is his motivation for the trips. How sad for her. Don't believe the fake show of happiness they will put on for others, hoping the news will trickle back to you. It is all a sick lie. Thank God you finally got out of his clutches and are now free to experience true peace and true happiness. God bless you!
Jan 24 - 6AM
Ellen
Ellen's picture

No he hasn't

Hi, Well he hit you for 20 years. I wouln't care less if he changed. I'd be glad that whatever he was doing that it wasn't around me.............the evil coward.
Jan 24 - 6AM (Reply to #2)
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Thanks Ellen. Exactly.

Thanks Ellen. Exactly. Even if he changed I wouldn't want him back. He's a real bastard. But what nags at me is this thought process of thinking he FINALLY changed. Like what I waited for all those years, that guy who charmed me and gave me the impression I meant the world to him, has finally come to fruition. I don't know, maybe it's one of those conditioning things that I've gone through over and over again and it will just take time for me to not think this way anymore. It bugs the hell out of me because my mind knows exactly what he is but it disconnects somewhere to where I think "maybe..."
Jan 24 - 9AM (Reply to #5)
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

That's one of the hardest

That's one of the hardest parts of this to face. That someone else may get the relationship we deserved. We have forgotten how they treated us during the honeymoon period after all the crap we went through. But he did the same things with you in the beginning. Maybe not the trips due to money back then, but he obviously had to woo you in the beginning. He's doing the same thing with her. He needs to win her over. And what the hell, if he gets a nice trip out of it too, all the better. Don't get yourself worked up over this, he's just not worth it. You are free now and even though you have a lot of work to do on yourself, you will find it is so worth it in the end.
Jan 24 - 6AM (Reply to #3)
Ellen
Ellen's picture

All i know for me

Hi, Well all i know is for me this still happens but 11 months down the line a new line of thinking is happening and outweighing the other pattern. Retraining i suppose. For me i was taught in my childhood by my mum to take a bad man and think he is kind. She has been doing it now for 44 years. She doesn't see my dad for what he is......a liar but she chooses to see me as a drama queen instead. Her stomach she has to live with i'm afraid, my gut would be in turmoi. On top of what my mum showed me it was a society that promoted it too, or in the least never highlighted abuse like i know about now. I think it's called magical thinking when you create an illusion of happiness that is not really applicable. I think with time and education and no contact all that may tun into fear of having to see him again. I still have the nice thoughts of mr pretend man but now i am grasping that it was pretend.......he freaks me now cos of what he has done by duping me. I now tell myself that it is little me, the inner child thats wants to kind man and i am misguided in my views there as my mum taught me. Now adult me has to take charge and guide with what i now know. I have to protect the younger me as my mum never did.
Jan 24 - 8AM (Reply to #4)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Wow!

"For me i was taught in my childhood by my mum to take a bad man and think he is kind. She has been doing it now for 44 years. She doesn't see my dad for what he is" This is so true. This is what happened to my mother-in-law who is now married for 50 years to her N. In the first year of my marriage, we were visiting my N's parents. My N got angry with me because I tickled his foot when he had dozed off on the balcony in the early afternoon. I did not apologize properly & did not take seriously the importance of his sleep. Sleep is very important (except when he needed to wake me at 3 a.m. on a work night for his nonsense). Anyhow, he was brooding & not talking to me for almost two days in front of his parents. My mother-in-law asked me what was wrong? Was he upset about work? No. He's on vacation. He's angry at me. You? What could you possibly do? (She thought I was wonderful & a good wife & I was.) Then she says: "They are good men." Meaning her husband & mine. That struck me as odd. Of course they are good men. Isn't that something we take for granted. Uh. No. Actually, mine is human evil. Somehow, my lovely mother-in-law has decided that her husband is a "good man" . . . she has even described him as "kind." She prefers to see his true self as the Dr. Jykell persona. Mr. Hyde is an aberation. And, in this fashion, a woman remains in an abusive relationship for 50 years. My mother-in-law was always so quick to say: "I'm sorry. I was just. . . ." Always said this whenever there was a slip, such as dropping a plate, or any such unexpected occurrence . . . because as we all know anything, anything can trigger the rage of a narcissist. Even a recently married bride gleefully tickling the foot of her dozing husband because she feels high jinks as she is so blissfully happy & in love. Believing that her beloved would prefer a few moments alone with his bride on the balcony before dinner, rather than sleeping alone wasting the lovely twilight.