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Forgiveness

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#1 Dec 6 - 4PM
Just_Escaped
Just_Escaped's picture

Forgiveness

Hey Everyone: What is your take on forgiveness? I have been raised in the church (father is clergy) and feel very strongly about forgiving when someone acknowledges wrongdoing, or if they don't, forgiving them in my own heart after I have broken up with the person and maintained NC. I think I can forgive, but I've always been taught that forgiving is different from allowing a person back into your life to abuse you all over again.

So many people get confused about what forgiveness means and think that if they forgive, they automatically have to let someone back in to hurt them all over again (i.e. forgiveness = extra chance). The reason I bring this up is that my N knew that I have a very strong faith, so I think he was trying to make me feel guilty by saying that if my faith was true, I'd forgive him...that it was my "duty." Even though he hadn't actually apologized. I told him that forgiveness was something that I would work out with God and that he was in no position to tell me that I was required by God to forgive him (this looks like spiritual abuse to me). I asked him if he was talking about forgiveness or "reconciliation." Reconciliation (i.e. getting back together or even talking to the person ever again) requires that the offending party clearly state the specifics of their offenses, plans for change and restitution. What he really wanted was to be reconciled (date again) without having to tell me what he would do differently and what he would do to regain my trust. He acted entitled to my love and attention. I told him that God does not require this of me and doesn't want his loved ones to set themselves up for further abuse.

What does everyone think about forgiveness based on their own personal trials with the N's?

Dec 6 - 7PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

forgiveness? no.

if you would please search "Forgiveness" you'd see this has been discussed plenty of times. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE IN FORGIVING THE Narc or Sociopath. Ever. For any reason. The must-read links below cover it for me: http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/08/no-forgiveness-unrepentant http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/12/forgiving-one-who-deserves-forgiveness.html http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/07/must-we-forgive http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/03/healing-and-forgiveness.html http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/04/04/those-who-tell-you-just-get-over-it-or-forgive-forget http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2008/02/testing-for-repentance.html http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2007/07/forgiveness.html http://www.lisaescott.com/2009/10/06/enforcing-consequences-not-revenge BTW -- We had to ban someone last month for her BLASTS about forgiveness and her prosletyzing about it... so please be careful.
Dec 6 - 11PM (Reply to #12)
Just_Escaped
Just_Escaped's picture

Barbara

I am new to this site and am learning my way around. It's a great resource. I have not BLASTED nor prosletyzed to anyone, nor do I plan to. Per my post above, I merely asked a question about everyone's perspective on the topic of forgiveness as relates to N's. Thank you.
Dec 6 - 11PM (Reply to #13)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Just_Escaped

no need to be defensive... my comment wasn't directed at you but made in general. Barbara ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Dec 6 - 5PM
4joys4
4joys4's picture

Every time I went near

Every time I went near forgiveness he would abuse me again. So, no thank you. Let his forgiveness be between him and his creator. It's none of my business. If you do want to forgive, keep no contact and never never tell him youve forgiven him. He hears that as " Let the games continue!"....and that's the truth. You can take it to the bank.
Dec 6 - 5PM
Ellen
Ellen's picture

Do you know i can't be bothered

Thats right, I can't be bothered to give any thought at all to forgiveness. There is no way i am there and don't really care if i never am. I am more concerned about feeling happiness for me and my children. I am still angry and its probably festering somewhere in me. Whether or not i am angry, sad whatever. It would still mean thinking about him in order to forgive and i never want to have nice thoughts about him again. After all thats what got me here. My kindness, concern and loyalty. No chance am i stupid some more.
Dec 6 - 4PM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Forgiveness Quotations

"While there is no disputing the benefits of forgiveness . . . forgiving too readily may be tantamount to acquiescing to wrongdoing -- an extreme case being the battered woman who returns to her batterer failing to respect & protect herself." (Copied from a work on trauma, did not note the title.) "We should not be too quick to jettison resentment in favor of forgiveness. As a response to wrongdoing, resentment can maintain self-respect, promote self-protection, and reinforce respect for the moral order." (ditto.) Quite simply, "we forgive mistakes NOT patterns of behavior. Abuse is a pattern of behavior." (Told to me by a psychiatrist when I was plotting my escape.) My N found me a very lacking human being because I held "grudges" and was unable to forgive. Even bought me a self-help book about "forgiveness" in relationships & gave it to me when he himself never read the book! (Mindf**k.) Such arrogance. Me. I forgave too much and, as I see now, I allowed myself to be abused.
Dec 6 - 5PM (Reply to #8)
Just_Escaped
Just_Escaped's picture

agnesmurphy17 - Again we agree : )

I am really starting to think our mindf**king XN's went to the same school : ) I love the quote "we forgive mistakes NOT patterns of behavior." Your psychiatrist really had his/her head screwed on straight! I totally agree that it is our ability to forgive, our compassion, our "cooperativeness" in helping the relationship along that can be a detriment to us when we are with the wrong person. If we are with a Non, these qualities would be great! It's just that when we're with psychos that these wonderful qualities get used against us! That makes it even more important that we figure out how to detect the red flags before it's too late next time (if there is a next time). You mentioned that your N thought you held "grudges" and that you were unable to forgive. Mine accused me of holding grudges all the time. It went on and on and on. I used to tell him that if he would stop treating me poorly, he wouldn't have to listen to me bring it up again. It's not a grudge when the offender continues to re-offend! I guess I was just talking to a brick wall... I'm so sorry that you were abused and that you believe you forgave too much. I feel this way, too. These kinds of thoughts can be very hard to deal with.
Dec 6 - 4PM
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

justescaped

If you search the boards, you'll see this discussed several times here. It certainly seems to bring out the passion in folks! I for one don't forgive someone who does not repent. I don't buy into the 'forgiveness is for me' thing. It doesn't help me to forgive someone who has attempted to ruin my life and doesn't care. My two cents...
Dec 6 - 4PM (Reply to #6)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

I can completely see both

The past threads are interesting. I can completely see both sides of the argument, myself. If you don't believe in forgiving the unrepentant, and you are aware that the Narcissist CAN control his destruction when it serves his own purposes, then it leaves nothing to forgive. If you come from the standpoint that these are very damaged people and they will never be normal, maybe somewhere in there is room to feel sorry for them and forgive them for being such train wrecks. I will feel sorry for my N just as soon as he stops EFFING with me (which will be never). Until then it's impossible anyway, so I don't worry about this too much at the moment. Harder for me to forgive myself for not paying attention to the red flags. I had to understand his dysfunction before letting myself off the hook in the relationship, and that is hard to accept. It's not like I haven't been shown in the past that I need to trust my gut. I let myself down and that's a tough one.
Dec 6 - 4PM (Reply to #2)
Just_Escaped
Just_Escaped's picture

Thanks, Quietude

Thanks for the two cents and tip on searching for this discussion on the message board. Do you know which thread? Was it called Forgiveness?
Dec 6 - 4PM (Reply to #3)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

Threads

Look back in the past month's threads. I know there was one, maybe two. One was titled "No Forgiveness for the Unrepentant" or something akin to that.
Dec 6 - 7PM (Reply to #4)
Amazed
Amazed's picture

Forgiveness in this situation

Forgiveness in this situation says " I think its okay for you to waste my time, my life, my love, my affeciton, including the hopes and dreams of others. Forgivenss is not an option on this one. They know, full well, the destruction they bring to others lives. The do it anyway. It is intentional. I am getting off this ride!
Dec 6 - 11PM (Reply to #5)
Just_Escaped
Just_Escaped's picture

Thanks, Everyone!

Thanks, Everyone for your feedback! All very valuable and full of loads of insight from your personal experiences. Glad to know everyone's focused on healing themselves from such poor treatment. That's the most important thing!