Fun Times

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#1 Dec 4 - 7PM

Just_Escaped

Fun Times

I have a question for everyone. Is everyone else confused about the wonderful times they had with the N??? I feel like I'm really progressing well with my healing, but I still have a really hard time understanding how I had so much fun with this person. There were so many fun and loving times, times where I was the total focus, treated like a literal queen! How can an N be such a horrible person and be capable of this much good?

#2 Dec 6 - 5PM

4joys4

just escaped

First of all, it is not "good". It is manipulation. They are ACTING "good". How else can a narc manipulate you without first endearing you to him? You are not thinking like a narc (thank God). Remember, these people always have an intent for every action they take. You are targeted and then worked over. They don't think like you or have the feelings you have. Your pain is their pleasure. They get off on tricking you. You are then seen as so stupid and weak, so they d&d you. I will say though, that remembering times when I thought he was normal, and recalling things we did together at those times, does trigger me. Especially now during the holidays.

#3 Dec 6 - 10PM (Reply to #26)

Just_Escaped

4joys4

Thank you for your candid response and for your honesty in expressing your triggers. This helps. It also shows what a real person you are, which is also so great in spite of your experiences. "You are nothing like a narc (thank God)." : ) It is a good reminder to focus on the manipulation. This is so messed up, though. So foreign to us, so another reason why it's so painful. I totally agree with you, having experienced it time and time again. Do you know why N's become so manipulative, having an intent for every action they take and taking pleasure in our pain? Why do they need to control us? I've been reading so much about it but haven't come to any conclusions about why this happens. My XN was diagnosed with "emotional deprivation" resulting from childhood, which I've heard psychiatrists say can be a cause of Narcissism. Either extreme overindulging or extreme deprivation. It's as if he's been deprived so long that he has convinced himself that he's going to have everything he wants when he wants it, even if you get mowed down in the process. Totally self-seeking. Which is terribly sad for them and for us because no one gets what they want. There's no relating and thus no real relationship. A scourge on humanity! Uuuugggghhh! Why did this happen to us???

#4 Dec 6 - 10PM (Reply to #25)

Just_Escaped

4joys4

#5 Dec 6 - 9AM

baddream

The best of times, the worst of times

We would spend the greatest times together, and without exception, a few days after these wonderful times he would d&d me.. like he couldn't stand all that happiness. I think he needed to make me miserable and switch me off, so he could switch me on a later time and start the good cycle all over again. so strange.

#6 Dec 5 - 11PM

itreallyisabouthim

Happily, no. My ex was such

Happily, no. My ex was such a flaming Narcissist (or weak one?) that he did not even woo me that hard. And he still thinks I'm coming back. You know - as soon as I come to my senses. Gah.

#7 Dec 6 - 7AM (Reply to #21)

agnesmurphy17

Sadly, no fun times

Sadly, no -- I do not remember "fun times." What I have learned here is that many have had wonderful experiences. Utterly charmed by their N & experienced moments of perfect happiness. I never had that with my N. He's different in some aspects. Very quiet in groups & alone. Not a big talker. Does not bring every conversation to himself. My N does not brag. My N is actually very successful & accomplished by objective standards. Does not go on about OW being a soulmate & perfection on this earth -- in fact, my N does everything to keep her a secret from me (he only started with her after I left him). My N never spoke badly of his ex-wife or ex-girlfriend. Spoke rather nicely about them in fact. My N has a lovely family, close to them, & I had a fabulous relationship with his mother (but no contact since I left). My N is very smart, shrewd & calculating. My N mimics shy & introverted academic very well. My N will describe himself as 'clumsy' in the art of social graces. This is his public, nice-guy persona. My N is very sinister. My N is really into the mindf**k. Brainwashing & gaslighting. My N is a professor of philosophy & reads a lot of psychology. He knows how to manipulate one's emotions. Mine is sadistic & tortured me. Absolutely tortured me psychologically. And always in private. I only lasted as long as I did because I became addicted to sedatives. Once I got off the sedatives, I could not bear living with him. I suffer from "bait aversion." The man was so "toxic" to me. Just the thought of him can make me shake. I also think the physical AGONY of sedative withdrawal is wrapped up with my pain associated with the mindf**k. I could never be alone with him ever again. Even an e-mail can set me off. Sadly, no. I have no memories of "fun times."

#8 Dec 6 - 5PM (Reply to #22)

Ellen

yes like mine

HI agnesmurphy, I'm glad you posted this cos my Ex was exactly that way too. The psychological games. He was also quiet and not the life and soul of the party. The quiet helpful man always with a charming smile for the ladies to lure them in but a true misogynist underneath it all so don't get close.

#9 Dec 5 - 10PM

cynthia (not verified)

fun time

tHE FUN TIMES were fun for you NOT HIM, he was putting on that ol act to make you think he was having fun with you. If they do have fun with you its very briefly, then they have to run they have things to do. They suck up their supply then they are off to a new one to give them a thrill. Supply to them is FUN, not the person, we are just objects.

#10 Dec 5 - 2PM

Carolyn

They like to manipulate and

They like to manipulate and control and in order to do that they have to make the 'game' they play worth while. so they do a 'baiting the trap' maneuver that causes their victim to bond to them. then they attack. Emotional abusers are very adept at controlling you emotionally by inflicting pleasure and pain. they thrive on the confusion they cause and feel powerful when they ruin christmas, destroy your birthday, talk in circles, make drama, confusion, and feel superior. Narcissists do not see any consequences and when they are abandoned they feel terrible for themselves and don't know why anyone would leave them. I have a neighbor who was ruined by a narcissistic husband and he has been calling her and coming to her house occasionally to find out why she divorced him. this has been going on for 15 years! He got the OW pregnant,left her, emptied her bank accounts, she lost her job; he destroyed her. One visit, she never lets him in, he came with luggage to move in with her. She just told the cab driver he was crazy and to take him away. narcissists have an attitude that is like a child's they seem to think they should be forgiven for everything they do. They don't have empathy, sympathy, or guilt. this guy is now without a job, penniless, his adult children don't speak to him, and he is a disaster. he just called her, Christmas brings them out in droves, and said, "I guess you don't love me anymore?" she just laughed and hung-up. She reads this site all the time and feels the information she got from Lisa and all of you changed her entire life. Her family thought he was great and she was crazy to leave him. Go figure!Now at least she knows other women have had this type of horrible experience and she is not crazy.

#11 Dec 12 - 7AM (Reply to #18)

JuneBug (not verified)

J

#12 Dec 5 - 10AM

NanC (not verified)

Good Times?

Almost every holiday, every birthday, every vacation trip was ruined by the N. He would somehow manage to ruin everything. He would get so stressed out about the smallest things. I had two small boys and then we had a daughter together, that was just too much "noise" for him to handle. It didn't help any that he had no sense of direction. It didn't matter where we went, he would manage to get us lost so that just escalated his anger even more. After ramping and raging the whole way, when we reached our destination, oh my gosh, you couldn't have pictured a more perfect family. He couldn't do enough for me and the kids. ALL FOR SHOW!

#13 Dec 5 - 6PM (Reply to #15)

Just_Escaped

NanC - All for Show

"All for show." Mine wasn't "directionally challenged," but he would take the opportunity to rage in the car on trips when he knew I couldn't go anywhere. It happened to me enough times to make the connection between being on trips or being trapped. Did you experience this? He would change once we got to our destination. He would say, "let's get dressed and go out to dinner." I'm like, "What the hell are you talking about?" You've just called me all of these names and yelled at me for hours, and you think I'm going to regroup that fast and go out to dinner with you? No way! I told him he could go to dinner by himself. I stayed in the room, but he would leave and come back every 5 minutes to yell at me again. I just looked at him and then he would leave again. Come back and yell at me again. This went on for at least an hour before he finally disappeared to eat dinner. Then he came back after he ate dinner by himself. I was asleep in the hotel room and he woke me up crying, saying that he didn't know why he was so "wounded" and I wasn't. It was kind of scary....I just wanted it all to be over. I made it back home safely and then broke up with him two days later. It's been horrible.

#14 Dec 6 - 9PM (Reply to #16)

NanC (not verified)

Just_Escaped

Yes, he was horrible (posted somewhere here) how going on road trips with him was having to hold my breath the whole way and hoping the kids wouldn't do anything to piss him off! Major road rage all the time! As far as them crying, isn't funny how they can cry on a dime? It's so common among these Narcs they call them "crocodile tears". They are so cruel and ruthless and then when they cry, they expect you to feel sorry for them. The last time the Narc cried (we had already broken up for good, being I went back to my 1st husband), he was bawling like a baby, I felt NOTHING. All the times before I would have felt bad for him and tried to comfort him. Not this time! I have learned sooo much about this disorder from this website and from others that I know he is just down right full of shit! lol! There's some interesting information on www.answers.com. Just type Q&A about Narcissism.

#15 Dec 5 - 7AM

agnesmurphy17

Destiny's Right

They mimic others. And I think they have very child like qualities. Very needy on some level. I think they can appeal to maternal instincts in women because some can be very clingy & tactile oriented (like children). About good times. There are none. Only my illusion that it was a good time. Funny. As I was leaving, he said something about the wonderful time we had at X. I said, "Gee, in my diary I wrote that you were furious with in X because of a, b, & c I did . . . you asked for a divorce (yet again) & did not talk to me for 3 days. It was not so wonderful." He says, "You're so negative."

#16 Dec 5 - 9PM (Reply to #13)

mmacali (not verified)

agnesmurphy17

Yeah, don't you love that? "You're so negative." These people are not human, I swear, that is the only explanation.

#17 Dec 5 - 6PM (Reply to #11)

Just_Escaped

Shocking! Is this my story???

Shocking! Is this my story, agnesmurphy17??? Mine said the same thing about the wonderful times and the discrepancies in my memory. I truly did have some great times with him, but some of the ones he remembers as being so wonderful (all the trips, etc.) were some of my worst memories....holding me hostage in hotel room, screaming at me for hours with the hotel room door open so that passers by could see me being humiliated. Funny that if I said that my recollections of the same events were horrible, he would say something similar to yours. Something about me being negative or pessimistic. He would throw in something like "I just can't be around someone so negative." Like he was going to abandon me now that I had the balls to tell him the truth. He would look at me with such disgust! Of coarse, he has no qualms about calling three weeks later (Thanksgiving) to act like nothing was wrong and wanting to see if he could come see me!!!!!!!! What??? I changed my number...

#18 Dec 6 - 7AM (Reply to #12)

agnesmurphy17

Just_Escaped

It's unsettling. My story is rather similar to your's. I just reread you whole story. Mine sent the 'flowery' e-mails as well. And wanted to meet in a public place . . . but I never went. Mine would rage for 3 days at a time. Hold me hostage in a room by blocking the door. I, too, felt like going away was being trapped. Spare you what he did to me in foreign countries. Talk of forgiveness. Act like nothing happened. Really, for these guys, what they do is normal. We are the abnormal ones for finding something wrong with their behavior. They don't know anything else. They are what they are. Frozen at the age of 6 in emotional maturity. However, very dangerous because they are full grown men who cannot be controlled. A child needs the mother at some level, & a child has empathy. The N really does not need ME -- just what he wants from me -- & he has no empathy. The sense of entitlement & lack of empathy (& sometimes lack of conscience [my N]) makes these guys ruthless & dangerous. They are misogynists.

#19 Dec 5 - 12AM

destiny (not verified)

I think the mimic other

I think the mimic other people they have seen act that way towards their girlfriends/wives etc. For instance the narc was much different the first half of our being a couple than the 2nd...i think during the 2nd half he adapted more towards what he knew I would like, but also how he saw others acting. Narc's other woman said it perfectly...she said everything Narc does has a condition put on it...if he gives something to you as a gift..a simple thank you Narc is not enough...and there is a reason he is doing it. I had wonderful times with Narc...he would 'fix the pillow' each nite and I would lay in the krook of his arm. He would call me to see if I was OK..etc. A lot of fun comfortable moments. but some very down moments too...Narc rarely smiled after the OW exposed him...I saw that side of him...the down , scared side of him. I also think for my Narc he has BPD and fears being alone those was more clingy physically..some of that may have been real...i dont know. the simple answer is they reflect back to us all our good qualities we have. â€œIt's not hard to find the truth. What is hard is not to run away from it once you have found it.â€

#20 Dec 6 - 8AM (Reply to #9)

JuneBug (not verified)

JuneBug Dead on about that,

JuneBug Dead on about that, I remember giving my N gifts two gifts, one for X-mas, one for his b-day that were worth more than the 5 little gifts he gave me for X-mas, yet he made such a big deal about them. However when it came on my birthday, I got nothing from him. Nice, right? selfish a**hole. It is so exhausting to be with them too, they are either Over-lovalbe, which is a form of abuse, or so mean and cold, that it si another form of abuse. I noticed this hte first time we got together, yet unfortunately the fake 'good times' always seem so much more than the bad times. And yes the only thing they know how to do is to reflect our emotions back to us, that is what keeps us hooked. At least I got the comfort of knowing that it wasn't me, he is off reflecting someone else's qualities now, yet all that I still want to do is to protect him.

#21 Dec 6 - 8AM (Reply to #8)

JuneBug (not verified)

JuneBug Dead on about that,

#22 Dec 5 - 6PM (Reply to #7)

Just_Escaped

I see several similarities with your story

Hi Amazed: I too experienced the tender moments "fixing the pillow" and resting in the crook of his arm. Always calling to check on me and make sure I was doing well. But, he also had the opposite behaviors when it came to giving gifts or doing "good deeds," which he would then cash in on later when he wanted me to comply with something he wanted. Horrible. He would list the things he had done and start to belittle me by saying that "I was ungrateful or selfish." I felt like I was totally struck by a Mack truck! He just saved up all of these things and blackmail me with them later! I got to the point that I wouldn't let him do anything nice for me anymore because I knew he would try to manipulate me with it later. I even told him this. I wonder if mine was a BPD too. They say that multiple personality disorders can be present in one person with a low/no conscience behavior style. He truly feared abandonment and cried relentlessly if I broke up with him for treating me badly. That's what's so sad. I would tell him that he gave me no choice. That I had to break up with him if he wouldn't stop manipulating me. He never seemed to be able to connect the dots. I began to wonder if I needed t explain things more. But, I finally decided that I had done enough of that. He either didn't want to understand (part of the manipulation tactic) or was just a blockhead. Neither of which is very good. He was very smart though, so I can't really believe he couldn't understand.

#23 Dec 4 - 10PM

mmacali (not verified)

The word is: Inhumane

Those may have been very fun, intimate, special memories for you, but the N does not rememeber them at all. They were just events that needed to occur in order for them to get what they needed. The N doesn't feel emotions and in order to have "memorable moments" it require an emotional experience/reaction to the event. To them, your first kiss was like picking up their drycleaning. Also, from all that I've read, YOU are the reason you experienced such good times with your N...they simply mirror the persona you have and who doesn't want to be with a beautiful, fun, smart, amazing person? Your energy and love for life has been spent at the expense of your N. I hate N's! I'm sorry that they have a disorder, but they will be just fine without us.

#24 Dec 7 - 6AM (Reply to #5)

JuneBug (not verified)

JuneBug YOU are the reason

JuneBug YOU are the reason you experienced such good times with your N- Mmcali, this line just made me connect the dots. You just helped me get over him! It is true, it was us all along! not them. It's like turning around what a shrink would say, that the problems that we have after the N is gone are really 'us'. Well same goes for the good parts, it really was 'us' too. Gosh, they are like young girls that ditch their whole interests/lives for their new bf's. Same with the N's. When my N and I were together he looked completely different than he does now. I work out, I try to dress up, dye my hair, try to take care of myself. When we were together, so did he. Now with this new girl, he's gained weight, wears a scruffy beard and rarely dressed up, looking just like she does. Less work for him I guess. He really needs a mirror, that is all that he can ever do. And this is why we could never be together

#25 Dec 4 - 8PM

Barbara (not verified)

NOT HUMAN!! NOT A PERSON!!!

http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-you-only-remember-good-stuff-of-bad_01.html http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/08/pathological-child-prodigy-savant-of.html http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/12/fantasy-re-runs-or-obsession.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. - Gloria Steinem

#26 Dec 5 - 9AM (Reply to #2)

Amazed

Remembering the good times

When you remember the good times,,they really weren't that good. When you remember the times together,,fantastic, the closest to someone, the happiest you have EVER FELT. Right? We felt so complete. Like we have gone to heaven. Incredible the pleasure and happiness in their arms. Immediately, the fear and anxiety of life melts away when we rest on their shoulder. Guess what. That was not a shoulder to rest on, you were just a cover to keep them warm. When they want your warmth, they will be back. When you want their warmth, they are gone f--ing another woman. When you want to tell them about your day,,,suddenly you find you are talking about theirs. The sacrafices you made,,remember the sacrafices?? The ANXIETY of KNOWING something wasn't right,,and you years trying to figure it out?

#27 Dec 5 - 6PM (Reply to #3)

Just_Escaped

Warmth

Interesting comment about warmth. I think you're right. I definitely offered the warmth, comfort, empathy, and ongoing flexibility regarding the ups and downs of the relationship. He felt entitled to these things, and when I wanted or needed the same things, he acted like I was asking for entirely too much! He would accuse me of being bossy or "controlling." The amount of projection was ridiculous! I'm being bossy and "controlling" to want the same thing I've been providing? He would even say, "I'm not going to be bossed around by you," and then he would leave. Like, as soon as I started requiring the same thing from him, he didn't have to put up with that and would initiate the abandonment process (physical or emotional). So imbalanced.

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