Selective memory question

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#1 Dec 12 - 7PM

greengirl91

Selective memory question

Guys, do any of you recall or remember if your Narc had these black-out periods, like not remembering stuff or events, where things happened? I mean really happened, ike getting drunk, people beating him, new people meetings, and they tottaly said "I don`t remember a thing?"

Just crossed my mind, because I`ve read in some of Sam Vaknin`s articles, that he literally, after an abandonment of some of his victims, or D&Ds, they like totally don`t remember peple, things like being erased from their heads, like a computer. It happened with my ex Narc as well. Many times, I thought he was just too ashamed to admit some things where he wasn`t in a favorable "light" let`s say, and simply erase those things from his head!

I mean literraly, peple asked him "Don`t you remember being there, doing that?" And he seemed like totally clueless, being born then and there.

It happened with my mother so many times, in a totally different context, but you know what I mean. They have like this selected memory, like a computer. They remember only what they want to remember.

Well sometimes. Because when it comes to "exposing" and hooverings, they recall a bunch of strange details. Weirdos.

I was wondering if any of these symptoms happened with your Ns?

#2 Dec 17 - 12AM

Sea

GG - these disordered people

GG - these disordered people do this all the time! This narcky messed up the last 3 years so much that i am not really sure myself on what actually happened!! This makes me insecure for a while. I just have to let it go, cant rem so be it. I dont want to go and pick out the egg york from the scrambled egg to find out who's right who's wrong. Too much work and serves no purpose. I rather move on.

#3 Dec 14 - 9PM

janemarie

greengirl

I commented yesterday but Ive been thinking of your post all day and it dawned on me.....these people are sooooo good at brainwashing and manipulating that I think they ACTUALLY BRAINWASH THEMSELVES!!!!!! I truely think they tell their version of the story inside their own heads so much, they actually manipulate their memories to believe in something false instead of the truth!!!! Blackouts...no...lies Brainwashing and manipulating themselves into believing what they want people to THINK happen...yes...masters at this! They do it to us...why not themselves!

#4 Dec 16 - 9PM (Reply to #28)

greengirl91

Janemarie, I think so too!

Janemarie, I think so too! They are so "great" at lying, that they end up believing their own versions of the stories. Of course! How else could they sleep like babies, with so many trails of broken hearts and tears left behind?! Like in the movie Big Fish. The character tells the stories so many times that he "becomes" those stories. They actually convince themselfs they are right. I was waching shocked my N cousin, bringing home his new aquisition, so happy, reborn, with no clue of what he left behind..the truth is they never "felt" in the first place. You see, these N people seem to have it all, travel through the world, wander, BUT they don`t FEEL life, if you get what I mean. They live, and they`ll only live on the surface. Because they are too afraid to introspect, and look inside themselfs.

#5 Dec 16 - 9PM (Reply to #27)

greengirl91

Janemarie, I think so too!

#6 Dec 13 - 8AM

alittledark

I have been reading about memories

I have been reading anything and everything I can to understand my own issues because I am trying so hard to work on myself. I just came across your post Greengirl and wanted to share a book I am reading called: "What Your Childhood Memories Say About You" written by Dr. Kevin Leman. I XN didn't ever seem to not recall a past event, but it was strange when he did recall key events in our relationship. It was as though there was no emotional connection and I am a very emotional person and I would often make references to past events and I remember always trying to invoke some type of emotion from him and it was as if they were just events with no other perception than a file he was retrieving from his filing cabinet. I sincerely believe with all my heart that the affirmation or lack of affirmation we receive as children during the time that our memories are being created affects how we perceive things in general and how we use certain memories to connect to certain emotions. I will never understand in depth much of psychology (nor at my age probably don't have the ability to understand, lol).....but it motivates me to try and break the cycle of all the warped thinking that goes on in my family tree. Here is a very interesting article that I just read that a couple days ago that only attributes to my reasoning that affirmation is so important when children are creating memories in their life. http://www.ndsu.edu/fileadmin/history/Memory_and_Introspection.pdf I do believe that it's easier for disordered people to overlook, block or even claim they "can't remember" certain events because there aren't any emotions linked to those events for them. Reading and trying to live a good example to my children one day at a time is all I can do now to keep from going crazy trying to figure my xn out. It's so hard to not want that fantasy life. I am praying for your Greengirl....you seem to be doing well as others on here are. I love you all so much!!!

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

#7 Dec 14 - 10AM (Reply to #25)

greengirl91

Thank you very much..I`ll

Thank you very much..I`ll definetly check those stuff out..I have my ups and downs. One day I`m on top of the world and the next I`m in the dumps. I`m not proud of myself but I always been into extremes, like there is a light side in me, and a dark side, and I`m always wandering in between those two :D..

#8 Dec 13 - 7AM

jackguy

i don't know if they forget but they do reframe everything

I know there's a vaknin video where he talks about how in order to complete the devaluation phase. I think in order to minimise the damage to their false self they paint a completely different inner picture of their former sources of supply - you go from being admired for all your qualities to being rejected as mentally ill blah blah... They are profoundly mentally ill...disturbed. I saw mine literally repaint everything in my last interactions during the d&d and I think she genuinely did or wanted to believe it all.

#9 Dec 14 - 10AM (Reply to #23)

greengirl91

Jackguy I know..they have

Jackguy I know..they have this talent to drive you nuts! And honestly, in this world is scary how common Narcisism is, it`s the "ME" generation..sadly. It comes to my mind a quote from a movie with Al Pacino, where he plays the Devil and mocks humanity, saying "You build egos of the size of cathedrals..and where do you go from there?".. Today it feels wrong NOT to be a Narcisist..

#10 Dec 14 - 5AM (Reply to #21)

EiPuff (not verified)

Video

Can you share the link for that video? I'd love to see that.

#11 Dec 14 - 6AM (Reply to #22)

jackguy

I think this is it but it may be another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvEc0ojAWqU&feature=plcp&context=C2cd48UDOEgsToPDskLA2MDPzH40u74lgyJe9LGo

#12 Dec 12 - 8PM

Susan32

"You and your memory!"

The ex-Psych would always say that if I remembered ANYTHING he did in baroque detail. I think one of the aspects is emotional memory. Ns, and especially Ps, lack emotional memory, so in a sense, it isn't fully functioning. It's like a car that can run, but it's not working with all cylinders. After the final D&D, I was the one recounting things to him in exhaustive detail-and he had REAL difficulties facing it. It was my senior year, and I brought up how of all the professors, he was the only who talked about his father constantly- referring to him by his first name my freshman year. I was like "how can you constantly reveal personal details about yourself, and then them not matter?" He had told me about his parents in Massachusetts (as well as his aunt&uncle), and his sister in Texas. He couldn't stand it that I wouldn't forget anything. In some twisted way, he expected me to forgot what I had done. He expected me to have as selective and short-term a memory as himself. He didn't ask for forgiveness for what he had done because he'd delete it, so who was I to expect forgiveness when I was assumed to delete it as he had? After all, Ns/Ps engage in extensive projection. For him, moving on=forgetting I found his memory incredibly selective. So I provided the director's cut with deleted scenes so he wouldn't forget.

#13 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #16)

greengirl91

Exactly, exactly what I was

Exactly, exactly what I was saying! That is brain damage indeed, and is strangely common in what I have read as being defined as "Mind Control techniques and experiments", they basically "cut" and try to "delete" and erase that part of the brain, that is responsible with emotions, feelings, because that way they can make "human-machines", killing machines, like super assasins, or super soldiers..very interesting. I see that`s the type of result that these Narcisists have in their heads, I know it SO well, I have been always accused by my mother of why "am I so closed or rageful" toward the "good-mommie". It`s like slapping someone in the face, then, expecting that person to laugh with you the next minute, THAT`S the kind of behaviour Narcs have! Ex N said in many of his "hoovering-songs" "Don`t stp thinking about tomorrow, yesterday`s gone..yesterday`s gone!" YEAH, maybe for him and his selective memory is gone! They pierce your soul, step on it, and then they expect you to be highly functional, like a doll, or robot..it`s impossible. Oh, and if these Mind Control programs are real, and I believe they are, that is the way they "program" soldiers in the army, to become human-killing-machines, to kill women and children without remorse..creepy

#14 Dec 14 - 9PM (Reply to #19)

Susan32

Memory Bank

The problem with having such an altered brain... is that it's BAD for the memory. NPDers are MORE likely to have Alzheimer's/dementia. My Narc grandmother has come down with Alzheimer's, and everything around her is spiraling out of control. She has declined severely. The lack of emotional memory isn't a strength. It's debilitating. It's like being able to save your files, but lacking the backup drive in case the computer melts down. For example, my previous computer melted down after 5 years. If it weren't for the backup drive, my files would've been lost. Emotional memory works like that. The ex-Psych was a fan of the Terminator movies. In his favorite novel, "War and Peace",a Russian official "rewrites" history mentally so he can deal with a mob killing an innocent man. Memories are a powerful thing. It's something that Ns/Ps fear. They can delete it in their own minds... but the facts remain. Subjectively, the past doesn't exist to them. Objectively, the past exists... and it can bite them. It can be used against them. There's a great scene in The Iliad about a bard who brags he's greater than the Muses. They punish him by depriving him of HIS MEMORIES. Memory is essential to art. According to the Greeks, Mnemosyne, the Titan of memory, was the Muses' mother, and Apollo, the god of the truth, led them atop Parnassus. Deleting memory, feelings? In the short-term, it can be useful, in a twisted way. In the long-term, it's debilitating.

#15 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #17)

ValiditySeeker

Read about

Multiple Personality disorder and Pyschogenic fugue states and other psychological dissociations. I think these would fit into the above illuminati stuff you've been reading. Like in the Britney Spears interview with Diane Sawyer where she's about to cry then starts to laugh then says "Ew, Strong Britney!" WTF? She looks so MPD. :( The poor thing. I wouldn't doubt the mind control stuff in her case at all. I think they're real but separate from narcs.

#16 Dec 12 - 9PM (Reply to #18)

greengirl91

Yes, I think so too..it`s a

Yes, I think so too..it`s a very interesting subject but scary in the same time, and there are a lot of gaps in the articles, you get really in the Twilight Zone, with Aliens, reptilians, demons and all that.. I remember a joke I read somewhere, a man was into a church with some other people. And then suddenly Lucifer comes in and says "Haha, I`m the Devil, I`m gonna destroy the world!" Everyone runs scared, except the first man, standing quiet, reading a book. The Devil asks "Dude, why aren`t you running, it`s the Apocalypse, I`m Lucifer!!" And the man answers "Because I`ve been married to YOUR SISTER for 20 years!!!" Lol, it cracks me up every time..that`s how I believe we come to be after having these Narc experiences in a way..we "recognise" these Toxics more easily, and we are less impressed by them. About Mind Control, there`s a whole buch of theories, how they induce and create personalities through torture, sexual abuse when they are children..because then they can create "alters" more easily, than when people are grown ups. But coming from a person who lived with Narcisists in family, you don`t need much illuminati magic to create abuse and pain unforcinately..you just need heartless people.

#17 Dec 12 - 8PM

ValiditySeeker

Oh, i think they remember just fine

But if they convince you or anyone else that they don't remember it at all, you certainly can't have a franl discussion about it. You can't get an apology for something that he swears he never did; just doesn't remember that at all! "I don't remember" is an effective way of shutting down an uncomfortable conversation. It's a method to get you to back off. You'll never expect an apology if he just doesn't remember. For myself "I just don't remember doing/saying that" is a red flag that you're talking to an abuser/liar/narcissist/sociopath. Don't fall for it! they remember, they just don't want to own it.

#18 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #8)

greengirl91

Validity, yes I do believe

Validity, yes I do believe that they do as well..I mean it depends on the case, on the Narc. I can swear in the case of my mother, after a heavy D&D, when she called me names, and had bursts of anger out of nowhere on me, minutes later, she was freaking smiling, you know? Clapping, happy! Asking "What`s the matter, I thought you got over that yet!" and yes, she used that line "I don`t remember" on me so many times..so yes, I do believe they do remember everything crystal clear, especially the moments when they call us "crazy" for standing up for ourselfs, when they feed off our pain. Afterall, they love to be hated, and hate to be loved! The best reaction is No reaction!

#19 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #9)

Susan32

"I don't recall"

I've been dealing with a female Narc at work... she's the same way. Raging&rude one moment... then smiling&all cheerful the next. She called me crazy yesterday, asking, "Have you been in the state hospital?" Very cruel. So, when I reported her behavior (she had been abusive to several coworkers that day, including myself), she got all paranoid about it. She asked me which nurse I talked to. My response? "I don't recall" and gave a naive, innocent look, and told her not to worry, that everything was OK

#20 Dec 12 - 9PM (Reply to #14)

greengirl91

Yes, give them a taste of

Yes, give them a taste of their own medicine! When I go home, I have my own key to my room..otherwise I wouldn`t go there at all.. You know, toxic people are everywhere in this society, and are hard to handle..but good for you for handling with such smoothness the conflict! I come to believe that as an effect of these Narc experiences in all my life, I`m a creep-magnet. I had Narc teachers, that go angry on me so quickly more than any other students, probably because I was so "used" to have my boundaries stepped on, and my voice lost somewhere deep inside..

#21 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #10)

ValiditySeeker

susan

How ridiculous that you have to deal with this at work. But I love your response! Love, love, love! Interesting how they can dish it out but it's always done privately. When threatened with public exposure, they're nice as nice can be. "Who,me? I don't remember doing that!" Note that stating that you do not recall is not the same as saying that you DO remember the conversation and you DID NOT say that. It's a non denial of wrong doing. It's a lie about what happened. Do.Not.Buy.It

#22 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #11)

Susan32

Sweet Nothings

I even changed the subject on her. Unfortunately, her shrieking blow-up at me had MANY witnesses-three coworkers and a nurse. She had also raged at a nurse working a double shift that morning... but, sadly, I didn't see that. She has raged, not just at me. This female Narc coworker likes seeing me upset,angry, sobbing, so I did the opposite... a lie with a grin on my face. It came naturally. I had her comforted, consoled. She was able to go home comfortably thinking there are no consequences (just where I wanted her)... and I've talked to my supervisor about it. I wanted her lulled to sleep... like that poppy field in the Wizard of Oz. I acted confused, said I didn't remember, I put on a dumb act that would have gotten me an Oscar alongside my favorite hottie, Colin Firth. As for the ex-Psych, he was the opposite. His rages during the final D&D were PUBLIC, in front of his colleagues&my classmates. He'd be raging at me as I wept. He had TONS of public exposure... it wasn't nice. It's not as if he raged at me over the phone or in his office. He didn't make his cruelty something that could be up to dispute. People going to their mailboxes, the bookstore, the coffee shop... they all SAW it. At one point, I appealed to his vanity, saying, "Can you stop being cruel to me so YOU can look good?" His own self-preservation was something he didn't get. It was spectacular superb self-sabotage.

#23 Dec 12 - 10PM (Reply to #12)

ValiditySeeker

Another interesting post, Susan

In my experience, they hide their abuse in the shadows. I didn't realize some were so dumb as to publicly display their attitudes and abuse of others. But on the hand, maybe they think that makes them cool? Maybe they think they're garnering approval from others for treating you that way. Or proving that they're soo irresistible that they've turned another girl "crazy" because she couldn't have him. His head must have been far, far up his ass on that one. At least with public abuse, you get public acknowledgement that he sucks as a human being. When they wear of public mask of Christianity, then abuse you in private, no one wants to buy your story. And BTW, Colin Firth is my movie boyfriend. :)

#24 Dec 13 - 7AM (Reply to #13)

Susan32

Nice in private, awful in public?

Saul Alinsky (the author of "Rules for Radicals") spoke of how community organizers should have a ruthless public persona, but be nice in the privacy of their own homes. The ex-Psych would claim he was an a-hole in public, but he was a sweetheart behind closed doors (reverse of what we're accustomed to) He used the example of the psychopath Dolokhov in "War and Peace." He cheats others, is savage in battle... at home, he cares for his mother and his handicapped sister. That's why the ex-P's awful bad PUBLIC behavior during the final D&D was a shock. It would explain why it sounded like he was parroting his supervisors about respecting boundaries. He was repeating what they were saying to him from them. (This was a professor/student relationship) He was fortunate that YouTube, MySpace, and Facebook didn't exist. Now there are vids of teachers being abusive. I wouldn't praise public abuse. Its "virtue" is that there are witnesses. It's something one can't "unsee." MOST Ns/Ps keep their abuse private. They know their public image relies on looking good. They show some instinct for self-preservation.

#25 Dec 12 - 7PM

blueworld

its not blackouts

its denial shifting blame grandiosity and lies their makeup they altar our reality to keep it spinning off balance and stable each move made was strategic , planned and executed

#26 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #5)

janemarie

Projecting Guilt

My ex husband.... the other day we were exchanging the kids...I said...oh dont you remember when M.... did this when he was 3....his response was...No, I dont remember anything from his childhood cause you killed me when you ended our marriage!! UGH!! ME????? I guess my duty was to stay in the marriage and continue with the abuse!!! Denied memory to project guilt on me...and ya know what? It worked...until I read this!!!! Im loving this support!!

#27 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #6)

ValiditySeeker

Bullplop

"I don't remember that" = "I do not want to own up to that." Period.

#28 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #2)

greengirl91

Yes, I guess it is that they

Yes, I guess it is that they are master manipulators and that. But I was wandering about their shifting poits and personality switches, there is a gap there, between the so called "True" self buried deep within, very deep it seems. And the all time False Self, arguing, omnipotent, superior, invincible. I`ve been doing some reading in some stuff that are hard to swallow, even for me, and believe me I can accept a lot of things in Twilight Zone. I read the story of a guy, who has been Mind Controlled against his will, since he was a child, and during a lot of processes, blah blah a lot of paranormal stuff, there is this procedure that those "Scientists" Mind Control Handlers, do on people, that is called "creating alter personalities". It attracted my attention, not because I would be some crazy fan of Conspiracy Theories, but because of some passages this guy has written, some stuff like "they were creating an Alter omnipotent personality in me, they even forced me to choose a different nam, and through different methods/techiques executed on me, experiments of the mind/body, they were forcing me to bury my deep "True" self, and become totally this "Alter" self". This is where the Light Bulb came, because in Sam Vaknin`s stuff, and in all those personality disorders, there is always these gaps, spaces, between what is the real person, and the totally different persona-created, if this guy`s story is true, through Mind Control techiques/technology and torture. As I said, it comes hard to swallow for me too, but honestly, in this world it wouldn`t surprise me to be real. Now I`m not stating each and every of our Narcs are Mind Controlled experiments, I don`t think the Governement has that much money and time to waste, but, major cases like Ted Bundy, psychos, I wouldn`t doubt to be these sort of "experiments" of personality created disorders, in the brain. Ahh, I got lost in the subject, coming back, this guy had these sort of "gaps" in his memory as well. I`m talking about major stuff that they don`t seem to recall, not only a remarck or some insult they throw to us..like events or people..who knows.

#29 Dec 12 - 8PM (Reply to #3)

ValiditySeeker

I know that

people with Multiple Personality Disorder or other psychological dissociative disorders have legitimate memory gaps. But narcs and other Cluster Bs CAN remember, in my experience. The current narc in my life tries the ol' "I don't remember that" bull frequently. But I ignore that and keep going. I tell him how it made me feel and how it affected me and how I didn't deserve this and how he had promised to be nicer... After a few minutes, he succumbs and starts to defend himself with his rationale as to why he he did this. Then I say "But wait! I thought you didn't remember!?" Busted! I must be some sort of master at uncovering "lost" memories.

#30 Dec 12 - 9PM (Reply to #4)

greengirl91

Ha, yes I do believe we come

Ha, yes I do believe we come to have some sort of "radar-Narc" after all these experiences..in a way it`s good, in a way it`s not so good you know. But at least we`ll know and recognise the "wolfs in sheep`s clothing" more easily! I had an "encounter" of such kind weeks ago, and saw through the guy immediately! And he was so resentful, so full of rage, though he saw twice in his life! But yeah, our Narc boys, mind controlled or not, they do this for their own sick fun! And oh, how funny it is when they fail at their own game..

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