no conscience

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#1 Oct 14 - 5PM
alittledark
alittledark's picture

no conscience

I was just feeling a little down and Googled "no conscience" because I constantly am asking why isn't there one little neurotransmitter in his brain that could be responsible for some empathy. How is it possible that God would allow this malfunction in His creation? How are they judged on judgement day when they are broken to begin with? Are they just dark angels walking among us (because Angels are without souls right?)

Anyway, go off on other stuff above, but I came across this personal site about this little boy without a conscience;
http://www.thelittleprince.org/noconscience.html

Is this disorder (RAC - Reactive Attachment Disorder) in the same category as NPD?

Oct 16 - 7PM
dulcinea441
dulcinea441's picture

There's a documentary which

There's a documentary which can be found on youtube called "Child of Rage" about a little girl who had been made violently sociopathic by severe abuse in her early life. She received therapy by the age of seven years old and was "cured." Apparently she went on to have a happy, normal life.
Oct 16 - 10PM (Reply to #49)
alittledark
alittledark's picture

Children's brains are reprogammable

I truly believe that if caught early enough and knowing what is going on...I believe that extensive therapy could possibly help to rewire and make those connections in the brain of someone with a PD. But, what mother would know the difference between her child just being a spoiled brat and being on the path to full blown NPD. Or for that matter, what mother would admit that her child is more than a little spoiled. I think an easy ADD/ADHD diagnosis explains away some of the PD traits in children today. Extreme narcissism isn't taken very seriously,,,,yet.

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

Oct 16 - 10PM (Reply to #50)
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

IMO, I think ADD is a full of

IMO, I think ADD is a full of shit diagnosis. I think my son is at risk for narcissism, I recognize some of the traits in him already (lack of empathy for others and does not fear consequence)...my job is to turn out a productive, healthy member of society...I don't want my child to ever bestow on another human being what I've been put through by someone else's child. I care about him too much.
Oct 16 - 10PM (Reply to #51)
ally2375
ally2375's picture

ADD and PDs

I just read something the other day on Shari Schreiber's site about the fact that there is increasing evidence that ADD and PDs are frequently co-morbid and/or one is sometimes (mis)diagnosed for the other. When it comes to diagnosing PDs in kids, there's a lot of controversy because their bodies are still growing, brains still developing, and hormones influencing behavior. It's an interesting debate, I think. Points on both sides. However, I must disagree with you that ADD is a "full of shit" diagnosis. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but as someone who was diagnosed with ADD as an ADULT and now takes medication for it, I can tell you I wish to God it had been diagnosed when I was a kid. I'm anti-med generally, but I know my brain works differently from others'. (And, I'm most definitely not a PD. ;) I would offer that ADD is probably OVER-diagnosed, particularly in kids, but as someone who has lived with it her whole life, I promise you it's very real.
Oct 16 - 10PM (Reply to #52)
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Yes, for a small segment of

Yes, for a small segment of the population, it does exist...just like for a small segment of the population, autism exists...the over diagnosis of these conditions is what's full of shit. When a lot of kids are dx'd with ADD, most of them are just so full of unspent energy they should be burning off playing outside when instead, they are sitting in front of Xbox for hours and hours and hours. No outlet. I find that when my son is outside playing or involved in another physically challenging activity, he is calm and focused the day following. When he's been sitting around watching t.v., he is all over the map the next day. He doesn't need brain chemistry altering medications as a substitute for being a kid. A lot of this is driven by big pharma...whenever there's a buck to be made from an ambiguous diagnosis, I'm instantly suspicious of it all. Notice how much the incidence of ADD diagnoses has plummeted and how much the incidence of autism has subsequently increased. hmmmmm.....
Oct 16 - 1PM
Journey
Journey's picture

Not the same as NPD

I read a lot from this site last night and this disorder (RAC - Reactive Attachment Disorder) is NOT the same as narcissism at all (even though some behaviors/traits may be similar). In this particular case, RAC developed from extreme abuse during the child's first 3 years of life before being adopted by the woman writing the blog. Very sad that people can be so cruel - chances are the birth parents WERE narcissists.

Journey on...

Oct 16 - 2PM (Reply to #46)
alittledark
alittledark's picture

I think I keep hoping that if scientists find that important

link or commonality between some of the mental illnesses and personality disorders then maybe they can treat NPD as well. But it's appearing more often that people with a personality disorder are just very immature emotionally and cannot or will not admit this spoiled immature self. Thanks Journey for reading the attached article and sharing your comments. It seems as though there are a just lot of opinions about causes of NPD and the reason a person with NPD will abuse the way they do. I'm in no way trying to gain any sympathy by saying this, but my schizophrenic mother frustrated me similarly to the way the Narc is frustrating me. Her roller coaster of emotions constantly kept me confused. Truthfully, maybe I am just searching for excuses to feel sorry for him. Hope you are having a good day Journey.

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #47)
Journey
Journey's picture

Well reading about this young

Well reading about this young man, it didn't sound like they could really affect much long lasting positive change regarding his disorder and his adopted family, especially the mom, tried VERY hard to be and do everything in their power to help him. He was medicated at an early age and had intense therapy throughout, but from where the blog ended off (at age 18), there was still no happy ending. I don't think you need to search for excuses to feel sorry for your exN - having NPD is reason enough. Wishing you a good day right back!!

Journey on...

Oct 16 - 11AM
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Thank you everyone

It really means a lot to me, as I feel I have been going it alone. I am going to try to relax today, and hope all here are able to do so as well.
Oct 16 - 11AM
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

Syren66

Love EVERYTHING you said and agree with everything you said!
Oct 16 - 12PM (Reply to #43)
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I hate that any of us have to

I hate that any of us have to learn this the hard way...we are all here because we were all duped. Really pisses me off to see good people get emotionally flattened by the predators of society...or seeing a friend who was an amazing husband of 33 years die from pancreatic cancer, leaving behind a widow who is heart-broken and lost...while pieces of shit like our exNs walk the earth totally unscathed. GRRRR.
Oct 16 - 11AM
Unfreakinreal
Unfreakinreal's picture

Stop making excuses for them.

They know right from wrong. They choose to do what they do. Save your sympathy for someone who deserves it. They lie, they cheat, they USE you and all of the good things about you for their own purpose. They do not have the capacity for empathy. Anything they feel is directly related to themselves. Honestly, they don't care how their behaviors affect you. They care only about themselves and you are only a factor when they can use you. Anyone that you have to put so much effort into getting them to love you or see you for who you are is not worth your time.
Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #41)
alittledark
alittledark's picture

Yes, that seems to be my case

making excuses for him. Still under his thumb I reckon. It's so scary to think that our society is seemingly becoming bent on grooming narcissism. A good horror movie in the making would be that of the empathetic few surviving in a narcissistic world.

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

Oct 16 - 11AM (Reply to #36)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

It is odd, the comments I find here.

They all resonate within. I once said to him, that I had nothing left to give, because I had poured all of me into him. I don't know how it got that way, I would not have percieved myself to be weak (before I met him) but I guess weakness is not a pre-requisite.
Oct 16 - 5PM (Reply to #39)
Tigerlily
Tigerlily's picture

Anyone`s weak when they`ve been sucked dry by a vampire, PBF

You have an open wound which is still bleeding. You need to cauterize the wound and save your blood for YOU! You won`t feel so weak when you start to fill up with your own blood again and no-one is draining it from you. You`ll be uprooting trees single-handed with a Tarzan yell, and everyone on this forum will be applauding and going, Yay you. It is not only worth it, it is the ONLY thing that is worth it - you. Take care, Tigerlily
Oct 17 - 7AM (Reply to #40)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Drained and weak

Yes, the wound is still very open. I relaxed some yesterday, and actually experienced some good moments, but there were times when a thought of him would come sneaking in, and it would honestly feel like a fist to the stomache. I am no good to others if I let this bring me down though, and that is what I will fight for. It is so nice to have people here who really know what I am going through, who can actually feel. It has been missing from my life for so long... TY everyone for being here. We are all worth recovering and being as healthy as we can be.
Oct 16 - 11AM (Reply to #37)
Unfreakinreal
Unfreakinreal's picture

Frogs...

It is your strength that they want, because they do not have any real strength of their own. It's what they do. Keep reading, dear. Xoxo
Oct 16 - 7PM (Reply to #38)
outOFtheFOG13
outOFtheFOG13's picture

agreed!

agreed!
Oct 16 - 10AM
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

They do have a

They do have a conscience...if they didn't know their behavior was wrong/unacceptable, they wouldn't go to the lengths they do to try and convince you along with the rest of the world that they are the victim. People with Asperger's (Autism spectrum), for example, have brains that are misfiring and they physically lack the ability to process empathy. I believe that narcs feel everything we do, if not more than we do...they just haven't developed a coping mechanism.
Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #31)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Syren

http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html I think gathering more information would be helpful to you!! Please see attached. Hunter
Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #32)
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Thank you, Hunter! Very

Thank you, Hunter! Very interesting read...what is the difference b/tw a Psychopath and a Narcissist...I see very little. :?
Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #33)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

All these personality

All these personality disorders inter mingle .. I'm by no means certified.. I do not believe psychopath is not in the " book" DSM They are also removing narcissism in the updated version.. The new term will be cluster B I have become an expert because I had one of these creeps in and out of my life for 20 years along with his whack job mother ., I'm well read on this topic and what I have read applies to these two lunatics .. Read up Boderline personality as well.. Isn't Narcville fun? UGH!!
Oct 16 - 4PM (Reply to #34)
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Oh yes, the whack job

Oh yes, the whack job mother...since his mother respected no boundaries, it should have been assumed that he wouldn't either.
Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #28)
alittledark
alittledark's picture

The thought of them having a soul makes me feel better

about having slept with a soulless person,he he.....sorry just in a mood. I guess I wouldn't want to admit that I slept with the Devil....but I'm sure many here would say that's exactly what I did. Wait, Judas had a soul, did he not? Well, I guess I slept with the next worse person....Judas...the ultimate betrayer. My problem is with what Greengirl said in an earlier post about it being easier to stay with the Narc than fixing ourselves. I guess I am trying to find hope that the narc can be fixed one day and if he has a soul/conscience then maybe his kind has a fighting chance. Hell, what am I saying? Somebody slap me in the face. Yeah I know a few autistic children and can't see the mind games going on from them, but see the lack of empathy. It is very sad. Thanks Syren66 for the comment. Take care.

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #30)
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Autistic people are 100%

Autistic people are 100% black and white...which makes them insanely good at things like math and science. There are no varying degrees of gray in their world, which makes them suck at things like poetry...they can read words on a page, but they cannot tell you what the story is about. They don't "get" abstract concepts and because of that, they fail to develop the social filters that most of us do. They also do not relate facial expressions with emotions...if you ever encounter a true autistic individual, you will see that emotion does not register on their face. At all. My son is an aspie (asperger's)...I am showing him how to process logic by teaching him how to do computer flow charts...that is math-based (if this, then that) and is logic...in black and white.
Oct 16 - 3PM (Reply to #29)
Journey
Journey's picture

Alittledark

Of course narcs have a soul, they are just disordered and do not process emotions the same as 'healthy' people. You didn't sleep with the devil - you slept with a man who is controlled by a personality disorder.

Journey on...

Oct 16 - 10AM (Reply to #21)
Used
Used's picture

syren66

great comment, and one i wholeheartedly agree with.. someone actually said to me once..pedophiles dont no what they are doing is wrong.. I SAID ARE YOU KIDDING...of course they know, otherwise why go to such great lenghts to hide it....they all know what they are doing,they just don't care..
Oct 16 - 10AM (Reply to #26)
Syren66 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

And there you have it! Smart

And there you have it! Smart girl! I am always analyzing and looking at motive (kind of a hobby of mine)...I go crazy when I see bitches like that woman in TX who drowned all her kids in a bath tub plead insanity...well, YEAH you're a nutbag...but you knew good and damned well what you were doing......element of premeditation eliminates that argument on the spot. Insanity defense is supposed to protect those who don't understand/know what they are doing...and yet these people keep using this defense and the court allows it...I'll never EVER understand that. Post-partum depression...give me a break. Got a little out in the weeds on that one, sorry! The rate at which children are being diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders is very alarming to me...I think they are being misdiagnosed...I truly believe the majority of these children are narcs...bad parenting or absence of parental nurturing being the culprit. I am not a holy roller by any stretch, but I do think kids could benefit from going to church when they are little. There are invaluable moral lessons to be gained.
Oct 16 - 10AM (Reply to #27)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Got a little out in the...

I agree with what you are saying about that. (these people trying to use insanity defense, yet knowing right from wrong) Thanks for the small chuckle from your comment about getting a little out in the weeds though. I needed it.
Oct 16 - 10AM (Reply to #22)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Still trying to figure it all out

In one way I find it comforting that I was simply an object, it takes the personal out of it. On the other hand... it is so hard to believe that it was all an act. They (narcs) seem to be such a contradiction in terms. Wanting love desperately, then sabotaging it. Am afraid my recovery is quite new, and I am still reeling from the blow. If I seem disjointed and off topic, it is because I feel so, and, I don't want to believe a person is unsalvageable. Even if I don't ever see him again (which I am hoping I won't) I hate to think of his life being miserable. sigh......