Getting off the Hook

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#1 Oct 1 - 4PM
Tigerlily
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Getting off the Hook

I`ve been thinking a lot lately about how the narc hooks us, what the hooks are and particularly, how to get off them. The two really big hooks I`ve come up with are D&D and hoovering, and I`m getting to the point where I`m beginning to believe that hoovering for the narc is just a milder, more innocuous form of D&D, while for us it may well be the last straw that broke the camel`s back.

I`ve been looking back and trying to imagine how I would have felt if my narc had been killed - or ended the relationship - in the idealization phase. Certainly, I would have been terribly upset, tried to talk him out of ending it and needed a while to readjust. But I think D&D hooks us in a way just ending a relationship wouldn`t. In fact, I think D&D IS the hook. I can remember, in the idealization phase, I felt like a butterfly. After D&D, I felt like a butterfly impaled on a pin, struggling to escape, damaging itself even more in its efforts to escape and slowly and very painfully dying.

While he looked on with GREAT enjoyment.

The same happens during hoovering, though the narc makes less effort, it`s a kind of bored effort, as if he were only bothering at all because there`s nothing better doing, which is exactly the case. He makes a kind of minimal move in our direction (like an amoeba expanding to absorb food). If we don`t respond, he makes a slightly larger move, and so on and so forth, until (a) we do respond or (b) better food turns up.

So much for the narc. Lets look at the hooks.
Why does D&D hook us? What investment do we have in someone who has treated us so badly?

I can only speak for myself here, but what I felt after D&D was:

(a) stunned - requiring clarity
(b) deeply hurt - requiring clarity
(c) totally insecure - requiring clarity

In short, I could have coped with feeling stunned, with being deeply hurt, with feeling insecure, if I had received clarity regarding any of these issues.

That it is illogical to expect clarity from someone who stunned me, deeply hurt me and made me totally insecure must be obvious. Yet that is what I did. It seemed to me that the only person who could heal me was the one who had hurt me. In a normal relationship, it is that way; normal people are sorry when they hurt someone they love and try to make things OK again. Narcs don`t.

The hook is "Why?". That is what we are all asking. Why did he do this? Why did he do that? Was it my fault? Is he really a narc? That is why we are all here. We are looking for an answer to why. We have come here, because the narc. didn`t give an answer - that is the hook.

Closure is an answer to "Why". That is why we want it, and they won`t give it. As long as we are still asking "Why", we are still on the hook. And they want us on the hook. Why? (why again). So they have something to do when they`re feeling bored and supply is low. Please don`t imagine it`s anything else. It isnt.

If we look at hoovering, it`s the same. Those of us who get hoovered ask "why is he", and those who don`t get hoovered ask "why isn`t he", but it`s the still the same damn shit. The hook is "why"?. Why he (or she) did anything is just a waste of our precious time and energy. "Why" is the hopeless attempt of an ordered personality to understand a disordered one. "why" is the hook, and they get it into us, not because they were so wonderful at the start, nor because they were so awful afterwards, but because of the mind-fucking dichotomy between the two. We do not ask, "why was he(or she)so wonderful at the start", we do not ask, "why was he (or she)so awful later", no, we ask "Why was he (or she) so wonderful at the start AND so awful later?". This is the attempt of an ordered personality to understand a disordered one, and it is DOOMED.

We must stop asking why. We MUST! We cannot comprehend it, ever. We must give up on why, otherwise we will remain on the hook.

The questions we must ask ourselves are:

Do I feel good with this person?
Can I trust this person with my innermost self? My deepest fears, my greatest longing, the things I am most angry about?
Would this person be a source of comfort to me if I were ill? Would this person be a source of strength to me when I have a problem? Would I want this person around me if I were dying?
Do I like the person I am with him/her?
Do I like the person he/she is when he/she is with me?

And (of course, if we`re looking for a sexual partner!) do the sparks fly every time we physically come closer to one another (which is VERY important, but should not be the first thing we ask!!).

If we answered no to more than two of the above questions, I would say, ditch them and find someone else. I am 50, and have no more time for assholes. Twenty-year olds of course have more time to make their own mistakes. But I fell in love with my first narc aged 17, and was together with him for 4 years. I am not sure how much of my subsequent problems with men had to do with him. Younger girls, you have been warned!

Hope this was helpful, love to all fellow-sufferers, Tigerlily

Oct 2 - 10AM
ruby01 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I like this!

Thanks for the post.
Oct 1 - 11PM
strivingforhealing (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Tigerlily- this is going up on my fridge!

Do I feel good with this person? Can I trust this person with my innermost self? My deepest fears, my greatest longing, the things I am most angry about? Would this person be a source of comfort to me if I were ill? Would this person be a source of strength to me when I have a problem? Would I want this person around me if I were dying? Do I like the person I am with him/her? Do I like the person he/she is when he/she is with me? Let me answer them for me: 1. Not most of the time 2. No fucking way! 3. No fucking way! 4. Not most of the time 5.Not most of the time. So insightful. I want to feel safe. I want to feel cherished. I want to feel acknowledged. I want to feel heard. I want to be understood. I want to be treated tenderly when I am hurting. I want to be part of a team. I want to never doubt my partner's words. I want to feel on solid ground with my partner. I want to love myself when I am with him. I want to feel alive and good and joyful together. and this would NEVER happen with him. Never. Thank you. I LOVE the clarity I get from this forum!!!!
Oct 2 - 6AM (Reply to #12)
Tigerlily
Tigerlily's picture

Never forget

That these are RIGHTS, not wants. It is your RIGHT to be respected. It is your RIGHT to be loved, cared for and protected. It is your RIGHT to be seen and heard for what you are. A man who doesn`t respect your RIGHTS has no place in your life. Love Tigerlily
Oct 1 - 9PM
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

Tiger

This is such a great post and absolutely correct. I think though, that it IS very important to understand the disorder. In a way, when you really embrace what it is, what it does, how it does it, then that explains the "why". Embracing and understanding the disorder IS the closure. We will ALL eventually hit that point. I can't understand what it is to be disordered, THANK GOD, therefore, a why out of him isn't possible. But understanding the disorder is. I personally think that telling yourself that he isn't disordered or he might not be disordered, and that he just wasn't good for me, toxic or what have you, 1. is denial and 2. leaves the door open for another disordered one if you don't EMBRACE that he was sick. VERY sick. Jerks and creeps do not do what the disordered do. Nor do they lack remorse, guilt or empathy in the way that disordered's do. Jerks, creeps can change if they so choose. These people cannot and embracing that difference is vital to the why.
Oct 1 - 10PM (Reply to #9)
Tigerlily
Tigerlily's picture

You are absolutely right, Sunafter!

The conclusions I have come to came after scouring my own psyche to see how I was part and parcel of his disorder, and scouring the Internet to find out as much about his disorder, as I could! I am absolutely not someone who ever enters into a superficial relationship with any One or with any Thing. The fact that he is disordered does not let me off the hook. Having researched his disorder exhaustively, I am now researching my own complicity. I cannot change his disorder, but I can change my complicity. My complicity made his disorder worse. I am still working, Sunafter. But I am offering the results of my work to this forum in the hope that others may benefit from my pain. Some value must come from all this shit, otherwise it was a waste of effort. Thanks for anwswering. I read a lot of your posts, and value your feedback. Hugs Tigerlily
Oct 1 - 10PM (Reply to #10)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

Tiger

You're very bright and I derive a lot of insight from your posts. This one was really good. When I respond, it's because it creates another level of thought for me. Something that resonates. Seems that happens a lot here for me these days, which is good. I appreciate your posts.
Oct 1 - 9PM
freaked
freaked's picture

BRILLIANT analysis Tigerlilly

and Thanks for this enormously helpful insights. this para sums up a lot: "Why was he (or she) so wonderful at the start AND so awful later?". This is the attempt of an ordered personality to understand a disordered one, and it is DOOMED. We must stop asking why. We MUST! We cannot comprehend it, ever. We must give up on why, otherwise we will remain on the hook." I guess..we will all learn to stop asking WHY after a while ,, because we will realise that there is no straight answer..and we will never receive an honest closure.
Oct 1 - 10PM (Reply to #6)
Tigerlily
Tigerlily's picture

Freaked, I love you!

I don`t know why! I just love that picture you have of yourself. It tells me so much about you. I love the crazy hair, which tells me you are your own person.I love that sensitive half-face, which tells me more about you than anything explicit ever could. And I`ve been reading your posts and comments for a long while, so I know who you are, basically, in essence, even though I never met you. My hope at 50 is not to waste time, because I don`t know how much time I have left. My hope after the extremely painful experience of believing I`d found my soulmate, only to be more painfully screwed up than I ever was before, is to learn from it myself and to give as many others as I can whatever insight I may have gleaned from the experience. I am very glad you found my words helpful. Thankyou for answering, Love, Tigerlily
Oct 1 - 10PM (Reply to #7)
freaked
freaked's picture

TL, thanks sweetheart

HUGS dear TL. sent you a pm
Oct 1 - 9PM
Winter
Winter's picture

Absolutely brilliant post!

So many deep insights and conclusions! Thank you so much for posting this. I will think about what you wrote overnight. D&D is the hook exactly because of the “why” resulting from it. And since we cannot find the answer, we are overwhelmed with anxiety: “There must be something wrong with me. I am not worthy. I am nothing. ” I believe that this is the worst feeling a person can have. Here comes the sadness, the depression. And we are hooked because the person who brought this terrible unbearable pain is the only person who can take it away. So we get “addicted”, we “miss” them, we are struggling with NC. We don’t want them, we want “us”. We want us back. Most of us are relieved when we identify them as narcs. Sometimes we feel terrified with the idea “what if they are not narc?” But “why then...?” And the cycle restarts again. Hovering. You are so right again. If he does it “what a bastard, does not leave me alone”, if he doesn’t “what a bastard, moved so fast”. Only when we let go of “why”, we become free. It seems to me that I am slowly approaching there. Maybe he is not a narc, just selfish and cheap. Maybe I am not a woman who could ever inspire him to make it better than he did. Maybe he will treat someone else much better. So what? What globally does it change in my life? I cannot make my joy and happiness dependent upon him and his love to me. I cannot expect anyone I choose to love me. I am not with him anymore and I don’t want to. He is free to do what he wants and to be who he is. Sometimes our path just cross the one of a wrong person. They were wrong for us. That’s it. I am slowly letting go. In the process. Thank you Tigerlily! Love Winter
Oct 1 - 8PM
Journey
Journey's picture

Well said! It is true that

Well said! It is true that once the devaluing starts it so much harder to chose what is healthier for us (and be okay with that), because of the attack and erosion on our self esteem and perspective that is taking place AFTER the idealization stage has phased out.

Journey on...

Oct 1 - 6PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

This is good!! Hunter

This is good!! Hunter
Oct 1 - 6PM
a girl
a girl's picture

I think you make a lot of

I think you make a lot of good points. I think we're all here trying to find the "Why?" I know I spend a lot of time trying to determine if he *is* an narc, because that helps answer the Why ... but at some point, we have to realize there's no answer and there's no closure. I don't know when that will come for me, I don't know how long it will take to move on. I have to have faith that it will, though.