The Path Forward Virtual Retreat Febuary 2021!



I'm Going Down

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#1 Sep 12 - 9AM
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

I'm Going Down

Hi

I wanted to check in and let you know that I saw him on Saturday and we spent the rest of the weekend together.

I can anticipate some of the comments already, please take it easy on me today.

I know I am choosing to believe in something that may not be real and at this point right now all I can say is I am going in with my eyes open

but it was really wonderful

and whatever it is about him or me or us together it felt great and right over these last 2 days

I know this may be an idealization phase or that I may be having my own magical thinking right now. I know this could be alot of things that won't be good for me.

I wanted to let you know that I faltered

I was weak and I gave in to him and I didn't leave his arms until last night. I feel completely inlove with him again.

My sister will not speak to me. I am going to post this before I chicken out.....

Sep 15 - 12AM
foreverfun1
foreverfun1's picture

its cool, i'm in the same boat

i feel like i let people on here down. i definitely wont judge other women for doing this now. i do have new insight about him which helps me understand him better. im getting my expectations high and a realize he will cut me off so quick after our first disgreement
Sep 14 - 11AM
58 and going strong
58 and going strong's picture

Bada, you have jumped into

Bada, you have jumped into water that looked so blue and beautiful and the very moment you jumped it appeared to keep you floating happily ever after. But you did ignore the warning flag: There are dangerous rip currents under the surface that will carry you out and finally drown you. ('I'm going down' is what you say yourself.) There is only one way to safety: While the current is pulling you, don't fight it but swimm away to the side and return to us here on the safe beach!!! While my image is physical, that's what's happening right now to your heart and soul. You know well how to 'swim' away!
Sep 14 - 12PM (Reply to #97)
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

Haunted

I am haunted by the words in the title of my post. I have no idea WHY i used those exact words. I having a horrible hard time right now....what I thought would be great and the best has felt so much less for me. I am torn up inside, just absolutely confused and torn up right now.
Sep 14 - 1PM (Reply to #100)
58 and going strong
58 and going strong's picture

Bada, it does not matter why!

Bada, it does not matter why! It does not matter because it is the past, and that cannot be undone. At least not in the regular 'earthly' ways of looking at things. . . You are o.k. and very much loved and cared about by all of us here. Take care of that newly torn up old wound inside, disinfect and let it heal again. You got bit by a shark who is trying to pull you down! Accept yourself for having had to go into the danger zone one more time so you can understand. And forgive yourself so you can end that ongoing battle between your heart and your mind. Sometimes we loose a battle due to our biology, when the 'survival-of-the-species' drive overrides the survival-of-the-individual drive . . . But that does not mean we lost the 'war'. Keep swimming away from the current, and see all the rescue lines and rings we are throwing to you. Just grab them - it's o.k.!!! Yes, it's o.k. to be weak at times annd accept help!
Sep 14 - 12PM (Reply to #99)
Lisa87
Lisa87's picture

always listen to your gut, your head

we tend to follow our hearts but we cannot with these freaks. They do not change. I love 58's analogy to swimming, so spot on! We have all been through the exact, pledging their love to us and only to suck you back in and then an even bigger D&D will come, they get worse each time, others are right to say he sounds like he can become violent, he is controlling you big time and will not like it if you backpedal (which is in your best interest). Just keep your distance, keep your wall up, and have Plan B ready to go! We are older, wiser and have been through this for years and years and we know the deal unfortunately : (
Sep 14 - 12PM (Reply to #98)
Better than ever
Better than ever's picture

Can you share what's going

Can you share what's going on???? I took my Narc back 3 times and lost the approval and friendship of many when I did.....only now I have been almost 3 months NC which seems more like a lifetime. We are here for you....honestly..... Hugs xoxo
Sep 13 - 10PM
rosedewittbukater
rosedewittbukater's picture

BB

Bada, the subject of your post is telling. That being said, I wish you happiness. It took giving my N three chances before I got out. I can't pretend I know how this is going to turn out. All I know is that you have to follow your heart. In this life, we only regret what we have left undone. In my own situation, Each time I let her back I gained more understanding. I know all about magical thinking. I just wish the best for you because you are an incredible human being and I understand what you are going through. Just keep reminding yourself "eyes wide open". Vaya Con Dios my friend. I do not judge you and I will be here no matter what the outcome is. xx, Rose
Sep 14 - 2PM (Reply to #95)
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

Yes Rose

.
Sep 13 - 9PM
juliamarie
juliamarie's picture

Not a linear process

I keep saying that, but it's true. I'd love to think we are done with Narcs for good...they disappear, and we're' fine. It doesn't work that way. I hope that it works out for you. I really do. If it doesn't we are waiting for you.
Sep 13 - 5PM
Tigerlily
Tigerlily's picture

Not much I can say that the others didn`t

But I`m a practical person, so my advice would be: Do what the Jews did during the Holocaust. Hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. Please, PLEASE don`t get into anything you can`t get out of again at a second`s notice - and I mean a second. Try and make it up with your sister, you may need her help. IF everything crashes - and I`m hoping and praying for you that it won`t - PLEASE don`t be ashamed to come back. I`m a real newbie, but I don`t get the impression that anyone who has answered has any issues at all over and above, they care about you and are worried about your getting hurt again. Keep your eyes and ears open, trust your instince, set boundaries and watch out for red flags. Thinking of you. Tigerlily
Sep 14 - 2PM (Reply to #92)
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

Thank you TL

Thank all again for your words today
Sep 13 - 4PM
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

I want to believe that he’s

I want to believe that he’s changed. But, considering what we know, they usually don’t change. I know how you are feeling. I don’t feel that way, but I have felt that way, with prior relationships, BB. We all want to be loved. No one would fault you for that. I just caution you to not ignore red flags. That’s all I wanted to say. I do pray that he has learned…but I can’t help but have a pit in my stomach, that he’s rushing you. That’s what ‘they’ do, BB. They rush things along, and before we know it, we’re being abused, or cheated on again. Please. Just don’t ignore red flags, if you see them. We care for you here, and want nothing but the best.
Sep 13 - 4PM
bakingfortherapy
bakingfortherapy's picture

Bada...

Bada, I do understand the cycle and why you are revisiting the relationship again. They treat us like we are their soul mates. I, and many others on here, have went back ( even RELAPSED if you will) and put in more time with the N. I spent almost 3 years off and on with mind games and N playing with my head and my heart. Some of that time was wonderful and I though "hes really figuring things out" some of it was just my own wishful thinking. Some of it he was spending time with OW. I agree with Spinning, and her observation that time does fly and sooner or later we wake up and have spent YEARS with these fellas and YEARS being played. I am 41 now and have spent 11 years with the N. Over a decade of my life! Although I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR DECISION.... I do know that we all have to sort through this in our own way and own time. My thoughts will be with you no matter what happens. BADA, You are cared for and loved here. Be careful and cautious. KEEP YOUR OWN PLACE FOR AWHILE!!!! :)
Sep 13 - 2PM
FINALLYFREE2BME
FINALLYFREE2BME's picture

Help for afterwards if you need it...

Hi, Although I don't know you well, I always read your posts and find them very insightful. I'm not going to repeat what everyone has already said. You know what the possible consequences are. Sometimes we can't move on until we've hit our own personal rock bottom. You just haven't reached yours yet. If and when you do, you may need more help than just reading articles, books, and message boards. While these are all very important and helpful, it changes our intellect not necessarily our subconscious emotions. It's half of the full piece of the puzzle for recovery. Here are a few sights that are catered to changing your way of thinking internally and changing your subconscious. (I don't personally endorse any of them and this isn't an advertisement, but they are tools I wish I had when trying to escape.) They are all different approaches and some charge, but maybe you can find one that fits you. http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/shopping/services http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/articles/narcissism-understood.htm http://www.narcissismfree.com/
Sep 13 - 12PM
MovingForward
MovingForward's picture

Not cruel till D&D

My N was not terribly mean or cruel to me throughout our 11 years together. Just covert, rarely putting me down and insulting me. The main things that stick out for me was the accumulation of the lying, cheating, using me for my money, isolating me, etc. She was so covert, the D&D put me in a total shock. I never saw it coming although it was always in the process. That is what was so hard for me with the CD. However, the D&D was so very cruel and mean, it was unforgivable. As I have written in other posts: The quantity of the good was not worth the quality of the bad. As much as I would want to go back, I would never start this process over again. I deserve better and so do you. If you really think deep down, you know you would not be happy. You would always be suspicious and fearful of the next supply and D&D. Would you always wonder where he is? Would you have the need to check his phone? Would he let you check his phone? Living without trust is not possible. Make a list of the way you would feel when you go back. Your true feelings beyond the idealization. I wish these disordered, selfish, souless bodies could change, they cannot ! Hugs to you. Whatever you choose we will be here.
Sep 13 - 1PM (Reply to #87)
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

@ moving forward

If you really think deep down, you know you would not be happy * I can't even go there right now
Sep 13 - 9AM
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

Thank u all

There is too much here to go back and write responses to each of you but I would like to say THANK YOU all so Much for being there for me, being honest with me, harsh with me, trying to get through to me. I don't know why I feel like i can't change my mind now, but I do feel that way - locked in again. I know I can change my mind at any time and I hear all of your warnings. This is so hard for me, not easy to hear all of this and jump in full on with him again. Honestly i am uncertain. I do not feel totally sure about what I have done. I don't know what I have gotten my self into just by being weak. I value all of your comments both good bad or indifferent. It is really hard to put into words how I am feeling right now, a mixture of excitement, love and affection and fear and anxiety. My sister will not speak to me. I don't like to hurt or dissapoint her. EX -- T --- asked me when I would move back in? I told him I wasn't sure that I was ready to move back in just yet that we only got together over the weekend and living together and moving forward is a bigger step than I anticipated. This lead to him questioning me on how 'serious' I was about our relationship. I don't know , as far as me giving into him over the last few days I didn't think about moving back I just wanted to test the water and see. i remember when he punched my car. Yes, to the person who brought up the car. I remember all of it. I promise I remeber :( I am so conflicted today
Sep 13 - 6PM (Reply to #85)
Happy1
Happy1's picture

Nada Bing

Wow! Is moving in with him the commitment he's looking for? Maybe you could tell him one of the items on your punchlist and the rest of world is NOT CHEATING. Enough said! You know what you are heading for and that's a train wreck. A big one!
Sep 13 - 10AM (Reply to #71)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

"How serious are you" Bada??

"How serious are you" Bada?? WTF are u doing! He's going full force, he can't even allow this to move slowly in a positive direction! I know you know deep down you are making a mistake!! He never went to the therapist per your request ! He never gave you 60 days of space per your request! He got arrested and stoned, screwed a co worker more than once, followed and stalked you, punched your car! And how about that wonderful dinner you had? All of this because you didn't obey him! Start with boundaries and see what you are going to get, you set some guidelines and he's is going to rage! Hunter
Sep 13 - 12PM (Reply to #73)
Caligirl
Caligirl's picture

bada, just a reminder, N's hate boundaries

They either don't have them or they are skewed. If the boundary is on their terms, ok, but if it's YOUR idea, get prepared for a 2-year old tantrum, acting out, devaluing... If you're not careful as to WHY you don't want to move in, he's going to say, "You don't love me, you're not serious (like he has said)." The next step a N goes to bc they see you're willing to sleep with them, but not commit, are the accusations that you must be a slut, hoe, want other men... I still think suggesting counseling might be a good idea and safe move, something like, "maybe we could get some counseling before we take that next step..." You see, how you have to tread carefully with these n's, and be one step ahead? Is this what you REALLY want for the rest of your life? To me, NOTHING, is worth having to tiptoe again, not good sex, proclamations of undying love, promises, compliments. When you are in an equal r/s where you feel respected and safe, you are not afraid to voice your real concerns, like "I'm not sure...I'm not ready for that...I'd like to take things slower."
Sep 13 - 12PM (Reply to #74)
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

Caligirl

I haven't even had my own car since this weekend. He has been driving me to work and picking me up at lunch. I have a feeling this is purposeful and his intention is to keep me as close as possible over this next week. He asked me to turn in my notice to move out of the apartment as the lease is up soon. I told him that I needed to think about that and he asked me why I needed to think about when we lived together before so well? why not go back to living together? that is what he wants. I wrote a PM to hunter and told her pretty much everything. He is intense and so this is not unusual for him to push things - I have written so much about him pushing for things or his agenda. He wants me back '110% in his life again' what ever that percentage means! and I haven't had my own car because he keeps insisting I stay the night, pack another bag and he will drive me, he doesn't want to take me back to my car or my apartment ...and won't drop me off alone either. Like is afraid of what I will do on my own? or with my own car? I don't know. he is coming to pick me up at lunch time and said I needed to let HR know about us getting back together, and insisted that I call and inform my sister on sunday to which she said to tell him 'fuck u'
Sep 13 - 8PM (Reply to #84)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

"My way or the highway"

I think it's time you violated HIS boundaries. Make him do what you want, how you want-even if means some emotional blackmail and manipulation thrown it. Don't be afraid of calling him crazy-HE IS. Don't worry about questioning his version of events-he's disordered anyhow. He is being WAY TOO CONTROLLING. He shouldn't be taking you to work-he should be the one thumbing a ride. Promise to stay the night-then DON'T. He needs to be as screwed over by you as he did you. Sometimes the only way bullies back off is if they get a double dose of their own medicine! The ex-Psych prof REALLY backed off when I had him publicly mocked in the senior skit. It was humiliating for him at the time, and I topped it off by recounting it gleefully to him the next day. Your ex-N should be willing to suffer for you. And you ought to make him suffer. Put YOUR NEEDS so ahead of his he gets lost in the shuffle. Treat him like "oh? mere mortal? you have needs? I forgot." Make it SO MUCH ABOUT YOU he has ZERO breathing space!
Sep 13 - 4PM (Reply to #83)
Caligirl
Caligirl's picture

bada, good to hear from you. I am appalled at

the level of control he is applying. It is not unlike the toddler who is afraid to put his favorite toy down for fear it will get snatched up (of course we all know what happens to it later), and I truly hope your trust in him pays off. I agree with Hunter though, let him earn it. It's good you will be going back to your apartment, and again, agreeing with Hunter, it would be optimum if you keep it. Also, it is good you have your sister and family close. Know that you still have your friends on this forum too. I have always been able to tell from your posts that you are a smart and caring woman. N's like to go after the best and brightest. I know you know "intellectually" what you're dealing with, but your heart tells you another. It is so intense being with a N. They are so passionate, larger than life, and charismatic. I too loved my xN for all these things and for the little boy vulnerability, but I had to see who he really was and what he is capable of. With those things, also came the bad behavior, disgusting comments, temper, criticism, silent treatments, and control. His actions toward me weren't love. Control, jealousy, and fear aren't love. But it's like what one poster said, YOU have to reach YOUR rock bottom. My concern for you, bada, is that you see this before he hurts you further, whether that be verbal or physical. I was thinking perhaps you could stall moving in by saying you would like to work on yourself for a little while (maybe get some counseling) so that you CAN give him that 110%. I read when you say it like *I* need to work on ME, N's aren't as threatened. Honestly, counseling would not be a bad idea at this point, one more source of support couldn't hurt. I hate to harp on the counseling, but so helpful. I think, if I recall, one of your earlier posts said you were in your 30's and feeling old in terms of goals. Yet, being young is why it is all the more critical, bc you can learn now from this experience with time to grow and enjoy the fruits of your lessons learned. I am 44 and have to open my eyes as to why I chose my exN, allowed his abusive treatment and disrespect, and why I went back when I knew what he was early on, and let me tell you I knew and friends knew. We all really need to reach the point to leave in our own time, but please reconsider moving in, as this is a critical point for abusers, often getting worse when you do. Also, I know we often talk about making a list here, but try writing out "why" you love him and all his negatives. Then ask yourself is this enough? Can you TRULY live like this? What do YOU WANT in a r/s? How do you want to be treated? Look at r/s's in others you admire, what do you like about them? My sister's husband has just arranged care for their children bc he is taking her on a surprise trip tomorrow that has to do with her favorite hobby. He is self-employed and can hardly take even a day off work. Well, I think I've said enough. You will definitely benefit by having your own place to do these things and reflect. If he loves you, he will understand. I think he is keeping you close out of fear, but holding on with a death grip and suffocating is not love. Love will wait. So take care, keep using that fine head, and guard your heart.
Sep 13 - 2PM (Reply to #80)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

Badabing please read

We all know you love this guy but step out of yourself for a few minutes, take a deep breathe and look out as an observer, if you are writing this all correctly, LOOK at how controlling and manipulating the guy is towards you you cannot even use your own car, he immediately wants you to give up your apartment, that is not a man in LOVE with you, he is a controlling monster who does not want you to leave his sight, not a guy who is trying to reform himself and will do for you what YOU want him to do. We know you will do what you feel you must, but think again,CAN WE ALL DIFFERENT PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD BE SO WRONG????
Sep 13 - 3PM (Reply to #81)
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

@onwithmylife

No, I can't say you are all wrong, I can't say that. I just got myself into something now with him and it won't be so simple to just step away. I can see what you are pointing out. I can see what you are saying, I hear all of your warnings. He has asked me to wipe the slate clean and I have agreed we can do that, I think he assumed more than that in regards to my apartment thought. He says he loves me, can't get enough of me, after this long NC and apat isn't it natural for us to want to be together? or for him to want to be w me? I am planning on going home tonight.
Sep 13 - 3PM (Reply to #82)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

badabing

Please go home to your place, go somewhere in nature, wherever it is relaxing and peaceful for you, by yourself, and think all this through, when a man really loves you and is the real deal, he will do what it takes to better himself, go to counseling by himself, , follow your wishes, ie, you want to keep your own apartment for the next 6 months say, he will say fine, you can drive yourself wherever you wish by yourself, he will say fine, that is areal, genuine man talking, see, we can see what you yourself cannot, you are not the observer of your life, WE ALL ARE, does this make sense, it doesn't matter if you have been apart for years, he will do what ever you need done, to win your love again, that is the real test of a person, they put your needs ahead of THEIR OWN.....................
Sep 13 - 1PM (Reply to #79)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

If he wants you back he needs

If he wants you back he needs to work for it! If this is real, it should be give and take! No way would I leave your apt! It's yours now! He's love booming you!! Hunter
Sep 13 - 12PM (Reply to #76)
spinning
spinning's picture

Bada, it is purposeful,

and uber controlling. I know this guy. He is the borderline-psychoboy disordered one I was involved with and went back to four another year of hell. As long as you stick with his program things will be just groovy until he changes the program. Expect those changes. And each one will whittle your life down further and further until IT'S ALL ABOUT HIM. He drove me to photo shoots and stayed in the car. He waited in my house while the lawn mower guy did his thing. He plugged in my cell phone every night before leaving to make sure I didn't have any messages or missed calls (I wasn't allowed to talk on the phone when he was around...I learned that through a long silent treatment punishment). He called at 5:01 p.m. to make sure I was on my way home from work. Pretty soon there was nothing "romantic" about it. It became very tedious and oppressive. I was deluding myself to think this behavior meant he really cared about me. It meant he had to control me because I'd gone NC once before. By the time I was out of that last year of hell (if it weren't for my father's dying process so I mended with my family) I had no friends and no one who really believed that I was done with this guy. Everyone was weary and tired of it. It was up to me and I was very much afraid and alone. I'm sincerely hoping this does not happen to you, dear Bada. You know I like you alot and care about you. The reason I'm being so blunt is you are a young woman. I set up similar patterns for myself (in hindsight I see this) when I was your age. I spent most of my adult life thinking I "wanted" relationships where it was dramatic and exciting but I was treated poorly and always confused, frightened, trying hard to be a "good girl". Good, kind, nice, men with character somewhat frightened me. I didn't think I was good enough for them. So at age 53 when I was almost, almost dead I realize that IT'S IN ME to abandon the pattern, to change the script! I wasted a lot of years being controlled and treated poorly. I've had more fun, more excitement and been treated better in the past six months than I have in the past six years with freakboy! I am afraid that if you accept this now you will be accepting this for your entire life. That's all I'm saying. This is huge, Bada. It seems like excitement and love and all that, but it's your future, too. YOUR PRECIOUS TIME AND YOUR PRECIOUS LIFE. You only get one go around. Please make it the best you can. Love, (not) spinning. AND I WISH NO ONE ELSE EVER WOULD TOO.

spinning

Sep 14 - 2PM (Reply to #78)
BadaBing
BadaBing's picture

I don't know

(
Sep 13 - 1PM (Reply to #77)
Used
Used's picture

spinning

this was beautiful,it also reminded me of both myn,s...even to waiting outside toilets for me, and timing me.exn grabbing my mobile, but just to see the time...not... my exh beign out at night and phoning me at home every 2hrs, then finally would say ,go to bed now... i could go drone on all day and night...but i am not them..lol i am so sorry for your pain spinning, when i was with myexh, i lost the will to live, i even said to him ,you won i, and give up....it wasent untill i become ill with anorexia, that i was dying anyway..so i got up the courage to tell him to go....cos he couldnt/wouldnt/ be able to kill me ,i was already doing it to myself...xxx