Why can't normal men....

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#1 Jun 15 - 5PM

Anonymous (not verified)

Why can't normal men....

behave like the narc does during the idealizing phase? Does a man have to be a complete ass-clown to be able to romance a woman? Seriously, this is very problematic. My husband is gorgeous, brilliant, and loves me, but dang trying to be romantic with him is a bit like trying to dance with a bear wearing two left shoes.

It's quite literally the worst flat footed exercise! I mean, we didn't have sex for 14 years, hardly, we were so out of synch, so out of step. I'd really like to see more discussion about this aspect of our lives here. It's so important. Most of us who are married and post narc just accept the status quo, sing que sera sera! Husband is seriously tone deaf and rhythm impaired and I'm like the salsa queen, (by comparison).

What is it about narcissistic psychopaths that enables them to be so "emotionally available" What a freaking perverse set of circumstances. Those with great depth of feeling, love and concern, invariably can't express it and those devoid of any deep feeling are just super expressive and all over us like white on rice. Somebody help me before I start screaming!!LOL.

#2 Jun 15 - 10PM

Arwen

This is the quandary of my

This is the quandary of my entire life..not falling in love with a narc or a psychopath and IS there a good balance with a man who fulfills you intellectually, physically and also will not fuck everything that walks? Maybe if I walk away from my marriage I will find out. But I can't do that right now in the beginning of another round of counseling and now with two tiny kids in tow. I would LOVE to be in a relationship that had passion and normalcy at the same time.

#3 Jun 15 - 10PM

loveofmylife

enpsychopedia

This is my biggest struggle with this whole thing! I am married too: a great guy, very nice looking, great body, good man (responsible, reliable, dependable) loves me very deeply, although I never felt connected to him. We have no emotional connection. Narc - totally gorgeous, amazing guy, I felt like he loved me more than anyone in the world, felt like he cared for me more than anyone. My best friend, my soul mate. Made me feel like a queen, he flattered me so much, tons of flirting, etc. I've never been attracted to anyone like this in my life! Now, after 25 years of being Narc-ed... I am so, so scared that I will never be able to love anyone other than a psychopathic narc. Especially after realizing that my dad (bless his soul) and my uncle (bless his soul) the other two very close males in my life were also charming, charismatic narcs. More so my dad. So where does that leave us? Never to feel connected to anyone again? I do struggle with this so much. It is the one thing that makes me scared to leave my husband, because I believe I will never be able to emotionally connect to a normal male. Ughhh. Any thoughts?

#4 Jun 15 - 8PM

ifinallygotit

umm...

My Narc was very romantic and simultaneously emotionally unavailable - the only realm he seems to be totally comfortable with is the physical and romantic parts of a relationship - you know, the grabbing your head and neck the way they do in the movies for the ultimate kiss that we all desire, the hand holding on the couch, the deep eye to eye contact making love and the right pillow talk - come morning:total emotional shut down. It does not carry over into real life... Narcs have studied romance and made it their business to get good at it to make themselves feel good and alive and important (thus all the cheating since the romance fuels them - not the actual person). A normal guy is not always going to be into to all that - they are busy being responsible to their families, working, actually being there for you when you need them. They have not spent a lifetime perfecting a game or illusion. I think it also boils down to chemistry too - if you really get into each other he can expand his behaviors if you make it safe. But some men may just not be that creative in the romance dept so I think you have to weigh the pros and cons. I have had only highly charged romantic sexual relationships with men and I am alone so what does that say? Have I ever had both? Sanity and romance? Ummm, maybe once and he was an alcoholic. I honestly don't know if I could handle a dull physical relationship - I think i would rather be alone but having a family would be nice. I don't think I will ever have it all...

#5 Jun 15 - 8PM (Reply to #14)

enpsychopedia r... (not verified)

IFGI

I have begged my husband for years to just kiss me. That's all...to just walk up to me and kiss me. I always approached him...always, never the other way around. I could count on one hand the times he ever voluntarily hugged me passionately or kissed me. When I met narc I was in a world of pain, feeling very very rejected. I can't have intercourse without some kind of emotional bonding warm up. It aint gonna happen. My husband realized that he played a key role in my straying. I just wanted to feel love. It's one thing to know you're loved, it's another thing to feel it. I ended up gaining weight and letting myself go. I just didn't give a damn...until I met the narc. I lost 30 lbs, got down to a size 6, got my hair styled, and everything changed. I'm a very physical, affectionate person and being married to a detached Scandinavian intellectual has been extremely difficult. There is a little joke they tell in Minnesota, "Did you hear about the Swedish farmer who loved his wife SO much, he told her??" However, we're working on it and now that I'm equating exhileration, excitement and passion with deception, it's so much easier. I think it's profoundly sad that there was no carry over for you in the real world, IFGI. It's an epic tragedy writ large across our culture. Really...women basically don't feel loved. I don't think I was at all unique. I think it's probably a universal problem, not just our culture.

#6 Jun 15 - 10PM (Reply to #15)

loveofmylife

OMG Enpsycohpedia!

I too am married to a Swede. I totally know what you mean between the difference of knowing that you are loved and FFEELING loved. I know my H loves me. However, I don't feel loved. I REALLY felt like my Narc loved me. But apparently he was faking it. I too, felt like a gorgeous lady with the narc, because he constantly told me. People even remarked how I looked much different, glowing, after we spent time together. So, the other thing... I'm Greek. I'm affectionate and passionate, and being married to a Swedish man (hope I'm not offending anyone!) just wasn't wasn't filling my passionate needs. My dad even made the comment, taken from My Big Fat Greek Wedding that "I don't see how you and husband, ever made it work! You are passionate and he is like white toast!" Ugh.

#7 Jun 15 - 6PM

SoaperGirl

They've been studying since childhood

The Behavior of normal people, learning and practiciing how to fake normal emotions. Well, I grant it's been along time since I've been married (twice), but even with the narc's severe ED, there are ways to turn a man on. Send him some Hoochy Mail (hoocheymail.com), the X rated variety, learn how to treat a man's body like one whole erotic zone, with your hands, eyes, tongue, everything... when it comes to kissing learn how to turn into his psychic erotic channel, the electricity and chemistry can really wake a man up and you too! JMO. JMO.

#8 Jun 15 - 7PM (Reply to #7)

enpsychopedia r... (not verified)

Soaper--My husband is a very

Soaper--My husband is a very sexual being, he just isn't romantic...at all. Very very closed down. We're working on it. He's improving and I, of course have a newfound deep appreciation of his sincerity and genuine love for me. But I'll say it again. Why can't normal men be as emotionally available and romantic as narcs are, when they are so into us, at the beginning of relationship? There is something about modern culture that destroys normal men's ability to be really romantic. That's my experience anyway.

#9 Jun 15 - 8PM (Reply to #11)

SoaperGirl

It sounds like a question for John Gray (Men are from Mars...)

Seems to me sometimes you just gotta spell it out for them, tell them exactly what you need. Apologies if the below isn't exactly correct. John Gray in his book told a story of when his wife Bonnie had just given birth and was experiencing a lot of post-partum pain, and I think an infection...terrible pain she was in. John had spent severals days at home with and finally decided to go back to work. That day, Bonnie had ran out of painkillers, the baby was screaming its head off, and instead of calling John, she called his brother:I believe, and I'm not sure if she ever got her medicine or not (I dont' think so). John was totally unaware of all this. He didn't know what was going on at home. John came home that night to complete chaos. Bonnie was hysterial and in pain. Well, John took it all as criticism of him and went to blow out the door leaving everything a mess. Bonnie screamed at hime that he was just a fair-weather friend. When Bonnie was happy and up, John was happy to hang around. When times got tough, John was ready to bail on her. She told him she needed him to stay. She indicated that what needed most from him was a hug! A hug! That's all she needed and asked for...This astounded him to realize that Bonnie wasn't out to attack him or criticize him - she just needed to feel loved! Once he realized that, he had no problem taking her in his arms and giving her love - may not have been "romantic" but it was love none the less, and how simple it was to make his wife and partner happy once he knew what she needed.

#10 Jun 15 - 8PM (Reply to #12)

Susan32

That's why Ns/Ps are so devastating

They KNOW we need to feel loved... and unlike John Gray, they DON'T do it! When Sofia Tolstoy was in pain after giving birth (like Bonnie, but this was 19th century Russia), Leo threatened to kill her, threatened to abandon her to go back to the army... and verbally abused her when she had problems with breast feeding. In the times when she NEEDED to feel loved, he withdrew from her. He offered her no comfort, not even a hug, when many of their children died young (they had 13, but few survived till adulthood) When Sofia was in labor with their 13th child... Leo packed his bags, saying he was headed to America... he didn't do it, but that's callousness towards a woman who's vulnerable. The ex-Psych prof knew I needed to feel "love" even if it wasn't romantic. But no, he'd mock me during class after my grandfather died. When my pastor friend died, he flaunted his girlfriend. Students don't NEED romantic "love".... but instead, it was outright abuse&humiliation. When I told the ex-P I felt hurt, he relished it. He saw my HUMAN need to feel loved as some sort of pathetic needy weakness. Ns/Ps KNOW we need to feel loved...that's why they bail when we need them the MOST.

#11 Jun 15 - 8PM (Reply to #8)

SoaperGirl

It sounds like a question for John Gray (Men are from Mars...)

Seems to me sometimes you just gotta spell it out for them, tell them exactly what you need. Apologies if the below isn't exactly correct. John Gray in his book told a story of when his wife Bonnie had just given birth and was experiencing a lot of post-partum pain, and I think an infection...terrible pain she was in. John had spent severals days at home with and finally decided to go back to work. That day, Bonnie had ran out of painkillers, the baby was screaming its head off, and instead of calling John, she called his brother:I believe, and I'm not sure if she ever got her medicine or not. John was totally unaware of all this. He didn't know what was going on at home. John came home that night to complete chaos. Bonnie was hysterial and in pain. Well, John took it all as criticism of him and went to blow out the door leaving everything a mess. Bonnie screamed at hime that he was just a fair-weather friend. When Bonnie was happy and up, John was happy to hang around. When times got tough, John was ready to bail on her. She told him she needed him to stay. She indicated that what needed most from him was a hug! A hug! That's all she needed and asked for...This astounded him to realize that Bonnie wasn't out to attack him or criticize him - she just needed to feel loved! Once he realized that, he had no problem taking her in his arms and giving her love - may not have been "romantic" but it was love none the less, and how simple it was to make his wife and partner happy once he knew what she needed.

#12 Jun 15 - 8PM (Reply to #9)

fooled no longer

excuse me if I get upset

excuse me if I get upset here, but making this comparison to a narcs abnormal behavior is dangerous. this is how women fall into the trap of a relatioship with a narc and then stay there trapped because other women are saying its juest men you know they are wierd my husband is the same. this post can convince you and us that all men are like this...this is extreemely dangeous!!! and could throw some of our newbies back into the spin cycle, this is not a man problem its a Narc problem!! what most men do is completely irrelevent. A narc is not most men, he is a living nightmare, nothing makes sense. so when you post something like this it just makes us look as if we are having a little pity party us women and just bitching about men. thats not it, we are running for our lives.!!! men may be from mars but narcs are from UR ANUS ! as someone once posted here.

#13 Jun 15 - 9PM (Reply to #10)

enpsychopedia r... (not verified)

I think Soaper's anecdote is

I think Soaper's anecdote is about letting normal guys know we just want to be reassured when we are super upset. That our lashing out is sometimes due to feeling like lost children ourselves. Men drink beer. Women cry. I don't see how it is actually dangerous, FNL. Maybe I'm missing something here.

#14 Jun 15 - 6PM

greengirl91

Your post reminded me of a

Your post reminded me of a fable, you know..everyone goes for the shiny cookie, you see it, you instantly love it. I believe good nice men, are also like a shiny cookie, some even shiner, but I guess they`re like a treasure that you keep discovering with time, with situations. Less intensity, but more safety in time. I guess that could be a possible explanation. Quite weird but could be, lol :-)

#15 Jun 15 - 7PM (Reply to #5)

enpsychopedia r... (not verified)

I would totally like to agree

I would totally like to agree with you, but in my experience many lovely men are treasure chests that remained locked until they are released at death. I'll be damned if I'm going to do the dance of the seven veils to try to open them up. NOT MY JOB!

#16 Jun 15 - 5PM

onwithmylife

you have

heard of idiots savants, that is who they are, the Narcs that is!

#17 Jun 15 - 6PM (Reply to #2)

Redhead1

My narc was never emotionally

My narc was never emotionally available, unless he wanted something emotionally from me. Can't help you there. Mine was physically and emotionally unavailable unless he needed something. The rest of the time he was ignoring me and sighing. And tending to his needs.

#18 Jun 15 - 7PM (Reply to #3)

enpsychopedia r... (not verified)

I was referring to the "nice

I was referring to the "nice narc" initial stage Redhead. We can all do one big happy dance that most men are in no way like narcs in the end, cancer stage of narcdom! Can you imagine how awful that would be? shudder!

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