this mother thing

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#1 Mar 27 - 9AM
kerellen
kerellen's picture

this mother thing

i am having a huge problem with this issue that a narc has "mother hang-ups" my ex has a great relationship with his parents as do i (his parents, mine have passed away) they are loving and generous and accepted me into their family with open arms. this was 30 years ago and i continue to have a close relationship with them as does he and of course my children do too.

so whats the deal? that is why i am truly questioning the narc label. sure, my ex has traits, some of which i have read here but the guy has empathy, i have seen it and also felt it. i am old enough and definitely wise enough to know the difference.

i do not want him back, i have no desire to, honestly. i can't do that to myself or my children. he has effed up again. he has faults, that's for sure but i am not going to end my relationship with him and not talk to him. i know who he is and he knows i know. does that make sense?

so, i guess i am confused. i get all this, but the more i read the more i question the narc label i have attached to him. he has major issues and some of them are narcissistic, he has done and said some truly effed up stuff throughout the years. so i know. i really do.

so what is up with this "mother" thing??

i am in counseling, yay! i am healing from a break-up that i wanted as much as he did. although he had a gf waiting in the wings. now that is hugely effed up but there is everything waiting for me in my life ahead.

he will be a part of it, he is the father of my children and my family, however toxic that may sound. i am strong enough to know my boundaries with this man.

Mar 28 - 2AM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

kerellen

If I'm reading it right you are questioning the "mother issues" and how it pertains to the "unofficial" diagnosis of a narc. It can be an either/or scenario... It can be an over doting mother that forms the child into believing he craps gold and deserves it all and is entitled to it which is what feeds that grandiose self centered selfish behavior because, they were trained to expect it and the mother modeled doormat behavior and so this is what he expects women to be... OR they were abused and had a narcissistic or pd father with a very passive mother who didn't necessarily protect them so they end up taking on the traits of dad or because of the trauma of abuse develop a pd - and in this case, there is evidence of actual biological brain changes as a result of the trauma from abuse... OR they have mothers that nurtured that whole oedipal syndrome and so they love and hate women because of the inappropriate sexual undertones in the mother son relationship...hence the mandonna/whore syndrome and of course a ton of other theories...so it's not just mother issues in the broad sense...it's mother issues on a lot of different levels that is believed to possibly *THEORY* contribute to this illness... SO on the surface, mom could be great...but again with life comes wisdom and like I'm strong pointed out, you really don't know the dynamics of his childhood to really be able to tell what is what. BUT like Goldie said, and worth repeating...if you landed here, you have a pretty strong suspicion SOMETHING is not right...but from what you describe...and I think our guts are generally in tune with the reality...you mentioned borderline...might just be. Keep reading eventually you'll land on something that clicks for you. It's all a process and recovering from abuse at the hands/action of a PDI no matter which one...same damage...
Mar 28 - 4AM (Reply to #15)
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

Ya I said the samething you

Ya I said the samething you said before and she still said shes in doubt bedcause the mother was not overdoing..i told her all that info already michelle..and no results

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Mar 28 - 5AM (Reply to #16)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Imstrong

I remember the beginning very well and we all come to our reality in our own time... I admire your passion for wanting people to "get it" but you've been here a minute...so I just repeated it...Rome was not built in a day, and the first step is getting it out, and getting it out in and of itself is a process... I remember when I was at your stage and felt like c'mon can't you see? It is all part of it Imstrong... Easy now...;) But I do know that your eagerness comes with love. Hugs! Hugs....
Mar 27 - 2PM
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

Just keep in mind once you

Just keep in mind once you share your story..which you have..where going to comment..you havent shared the full story so we can only comment on what we know..to say we dont know the full story and are commenting is exactly true and not our fault..im just giving you advice I would give my closest friend..you asked a question about narc mother...we gave you the answer now if your still in doubt..that may be a issue only resolved by you..hugs xx

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Mar 27 - 1PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Kerellen

I don't know the whole story, but maybe he's borderline with high narc tendencies? Have you looked into borderline? Hugs!
Mar 27 - 1PM (Reply to #11)
kerellen
kerellen's picture

i hear u

i think that is how i would classify his personality, he seems to fit the borderline persona. i am so over it and so ready to get on with my life and feel and think with such clarity and doggone it i am seriously tired. it is time for me me me!!
Mar 27 - 1PM (Reply to #12)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

kerellen

Well, even if he's borderline with narc tendencies, the personality disorders all tend to overlap... Given the "me" time...you are still in the right place...this board saved my life but more importantly, my sanity... Keep reading, keep healing, keep getting it out... The six steps/path forward is really what helped do it for me and I am looking forward to doing more work in the facilitation of that process in the near future on the board. Hugs!
Mar 27 - 11AM
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

One more question as goldie

One more question as goldie pointed out..hows do you know anythng substantial to his narcissim and his mother were you there for his most crucial years of damage age 5 throgh 7? ..we must keep a open mind that we are not psycotherapist who can determine every thing about narc..theres alot you dont know and could be missing..we are part of the problem and equation not all

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Mar 27 - 11AM
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

.

.

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Mar 27 - 10AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Hi Kerellen

My first question to you would be: what made you think he was a Narc in the first place? What were his behaviors which led you to the board? I would imagine there must have been traits which fit at some point. The board does cover all NP's which as we have learned: most NP's have Narc features, which does not necessarily make them a full blown Narc. He may very well have another PD, which would explain the lack of some of the traits. Honestly, all the Narcs I have analyzed have had some mother issues. The damage is done before the age of 7 and often if you don't know what his early childhood was like it is hard to say. PD's show signs of disturbance as children. Sometimes very early on and for others you see the traits when they are teens or young adults. This is not a disorder which pops up out of the blue in their late 20's. Some may be better at hiding it than others, which can make it difficult to diagnois. There is also the rare bird who is simply selfish to the core and no one appears to be able to make the connection as to what caused this behavior. You know what I mean, when someone comes from a nice family and all the other siblings are great, yet for some reason one of them is not and no one knows why. It just is. The other thing is that for many of us as we grow in our recovery sometimes we begin to question whether or not they really are disordered because we forget some of what they did. Then the act out again and we are like: oh yes, now I remember why I cannot be with this person. You may never know for sure and as you say, you are learning to keep your bounderies up and take care of your needs. The bottom line is that they can suck you back in on a dime and you need to be very careful when you maintain a relationship with a PD, if this is what he has because they are master manipulators and can screw with your life when you least expect it. God bless, Goldie
Mar 27 - 11AM (Reply to #7)
kerellen
kerellen's picture

thank you

thank you for your wise words. i do not at all question that he has narcissistic qualities, he certainly does and believe you me my boundaries now are set in stone. but i can't buy the mother thing. seriously, why is it always the mother?? i will never allow him back into my life in that way. i won't forget. i just won't. we have both moved on but have to communicate due to children and business. i am well aware of this wily ways and his b.s. i feel free in a way i have never felt before and it is great. i have a full life with lots of friends and a great family who are very supportive. thanks, you are right i may never know for sure but what is most important is my journey and how i decide what my future is going to look like and i find this all very exciting and promising especially now that i don't have him around.
Mar 27 - 10AM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

the mother thing

wonderful book you might want to read, When he is Married to Mom, I could write my own book about how his m other smothered and doted on him, the exact words his own brother used to tell me and she was a narc herself from what I gather,never let the toddler separate from her apron strings and his father was an absent type of father from what narc use to tell me.It is crucial for a little boy to make the 'break', from mommy,l around age of 5 years old, from all that I have read and I have read aLOT these past 2 years.Either smothering or abandonment both have the same results and I am sure genetic, brain wiring, also enters into the picture.His mother wanted him to be a girl, she already had a boy much earlier, over 15 years earlier.
Mar 27 - 10AM
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

We have all doubted the

We have all doubted the narc .but what you fail to realize is that narc have also over indulging relationships with there parents also..where the parent smothers them and places them on a very high pedistle..this also can cause narcissism because of the parents unrealistic views of the narc child.. Now maybe not in your presence the mother of this narc is beyond submissive to his father etc etc. The point is that there are many layers to a narc mother who is the begin of all and end of all his problems.. Even if he isnt a narc..do you really want to be in the pressence of a jerk.. You seem wise..but wise is not enough to beat a narc..re educate yourself on nc..and you will need to stay away from his family and him..take some time to yourself get your thoughts together

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Mar 27 - 10AM (Reply to #2)
kerellen
kerellen's picture

still doubtful

my ex was not smothered nor overindulged nor put on a pedestal by his parents. i don't want to feel defensive here by having others tell me what i am feeling and what i know is not valid or the truth. he is a jerk, i certainly do not condone his behavior but i am not going to give up my relationship with his family. why would i stay away from his family?? they are a great support system and i love them. that doesn't mean that they like his b.s. and ignore it. it may not make sense to others. my relationship with him is for sure over and i have to mourn this but i am not going to give up something (his family) that is a huge presence in my life. it doesn't mean that i am hanging with him. i am well aware of the situation but they are my family too and i have a difficult time when people give advice without knowing the entire story. i have had time to myself and my thoughts are together, more so now than ever. i have a clarity of mind that has never been there before. i really get it now.
Mar 27 - 11AM (Reply to #3)
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

I do sense your dedense..not

I do sense your dedense..not trying to school you..im just saying if yu are atached to the narc in any way family friends you are exposed to his toxic behavior I still beleive you should focuse on you with out any influence of the narc..maybe you dont see it now but soon

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Mar 27 - 1PM (Reply to #4)
kerellen
kerellen's picture

focused on me

i am focused on me, i think that was what i was trying to relay. i am too old too get sucked back in. it makes me tired as hell and my heart is not there. i have known my ex's family forever and a day. i was not there during his early years but i can assure you there was no smothering, narcissism or weirdness. there was the usual day to day family stuff, struggles, etc. no family is perfect and most have some dysfunction but i observed a lot of love in that family, i am pretty sure i would have noticed otherwise, i am pretty hyper observant. well then you ask, if i am so observant then why???? did i get involved with him. i was young and in love. i have climbed this mountain and am now on the other side. i guess what i am trying to say is that people should try and respect other's decisions whether they agree with them or not.