Why is she better than me-- to him?

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#1 March 19, 2011 - 8:42pm

Why is she better than me-- to him?

I am going between good days and sad ones. Well, more like confused ones-- not quite sad ones.

Today-- is a confused one.

I have a question... If I am so pretty, smart, cute, funny, a good catch... all the things I have been told (not from N from other men)


(I dont want a ring just an example)




Anyone? I could use some help because as you can see-- today has not been the best day.

March 31, 2011 - 10:03pm

Not the best day

I hate that I feel so inadequite.

Please, I'm not looking for everybody to say

"oh, you're great-- it's him"

I'm just trying to figure out-- HOW to feel better. I can hear it over and over 1000 times a day but some switch in my head has shut down.


March 31, 2011 - 11:41pm (Reply to #58)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

When you not only understand the disorder

BUT own what it is it will all "click"


March 31, 2011 - 11:40am


I am so glad that most my recent situation was not a romantic one, but I have been in an intimate relationship with a narcissist/alcoholic so I so know how you feel. They leave you feeling like something is completely wrong with you and its not.

I was so far gone with my ex-boyfriend that he tried to kill the both of us and even after being treated horribly, the thought of him being with someone else made me so depressed, but now that I'm over him, and can stand at a distance, anyone who is with him, I feel sorry for them.

That charming part of them messes with your head so much that they could have a gun to your head and you'd think something was wrong with yourself.

March 31, 2011 - 5:37am


I think what Venus's male friend said is right on, but I would add these disordered men have twisted issues with their mothers and are revisiting these issues with their mothers onto the present women in their lives and will continue to do that with each and every women, mine had 5 failed relationships,major ones, that is a lot and still believes it is all the womens faults, crazy thinking!!!

March 28, 2011 - 8:28pm


A male friend told me this last week....with certain men (disordereds), each woman is paying- via his twisted, resentment laden attempts at mental control- for what was frustrating to him about the last. Frustrating (in memory) to him for any myriad of reasons, he acts his resentments out with Miss Present Tense to get back at you. A la third grade. Oh, you'd asked him once why he doesn't bring you flowers anymore? (Example)....Well, guess what- he'd hated that you'd worn cute sundresses that would sometimes catch the eyes of other men...THAT'S why the new gf gets flowers and you never again did. Pretty much just like that. Disordered mental mindwarpy sht. They have an elaborate punishment system based on pissing all over things they couldn't control or fix (or discuss with you directly like a grown-up), due to their arrested emotional development. Thank the good Lord above that he's some other chickie's problem now. Seriously. This mentality is straight up POISON. You WERE great. And she'll suffer for that as well. =(

March 31, 2011 - 11:49am (Reply to #54)


That is such an excellent way of putting it. SO much that I'm going to have to print this out and hang it on my fridge

March 28, 2011 - 8:55pm (Reply to #49)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture


Wow, I'd buy two of those and pay full price...that is really interesting and I wouldn't say way off base at all...yes...and I think the turd said something like that in a "moment of clarity" gotta love those moments of clarity...

So guess we need to hate the ex's for our pain and suffering? I mean after all in a twisted world it would make sense and keeps the narc blameless...

The sick twisted turns...OMG...

Wow...this was really deep and yea, I buy it 2000%


PS...nice to see you back here...don't be such a stranger...

March 31, 2011 - 4:55am (Reply to #50)


Thank you for the w/b hug =)) I missed you guys.

Sick, twisted turns...right? I swear, I can't think about this stuff for long anymore because it'll literally make my stomach upset. When my ex's wife decided to divorce him & he moved into an apartment, she gave him the family's set of drinking glasses. Which he then tried to give to me, he'd said they were his from college. He'd REALLY wanted me to use them. (Wtf?) He'd also (I found out later) begun buying me scented soaps, her favorites. (Ugh) Also, before I'd even found out he'd had a wife (Grrr!), on outings together he'd always driven sooo considerately with me, cautiously, almost like a mom. I'd found out later that with her, he'd liked to zip around, which made her nervous as hell. She'd beg him to drive more carefully, which he'd agree to do but then of course ignore. Except behind her back, with me. Where he'd made it a point. Ughhhhh. Control games. Proxy games! Around women unaware of each other's existence even, at points! It's truly disgusting.

I try and mentally put myself in these scenarios, as him. I try and imagine what I'd be going through emotionally to make me feel this way. I always come up with the same thing- a sense of helplessness. That's what I think they feel constantly, subconsciously or otherwise. What a mess. I'm so glad I'm outta there. Yesterday I blocked his number, this time I'm leaving it that way. Before, I'd wanted to handle the calls/texts or lack of but I don't feel it necessary anymore. Good riddance. Verizon can handle it.

Our pain and suffering through them....I guess it's due to ex's, due to parents, due to every experience with powerlessness they've had, the list goes on. I think of it like learning math. You can't just skim it or skip Algebra II. It's a compound learning system. When they stopped growing emotionally and as people, there began a massive clog. To sort through it now, this massive mental tangle, would be an exercise in futility. It makes my head hurt just thinking about it. I'm so grateful that I'm now finally able to start seeing it as a profound, permanent illness and not a problem I wish I could've better handled.

Beam Of Light,

I know where you're at and how hard it is. I hope you'll try and remember though, you can't apply your healthy mind and thinking to the twisted wiring of a disordered person, hoping to make your kind of sense of him. He's sick. It's all about control to him- it's NOT about ANY real, valid ways you "didn't measure up". NO way. He's stuck back in time, perpetually 6 yrs old emotionally or somewhere near it. That's why discussions with him made you want to run screaming in the other direction so you didn't grab his neck and snap it. There's no connecting or understanding each other in an adult manner with a venemous child. You're not supposed to. The things he said to you (blahh blahh when I find the Right Woman pffffttttt) were not coming from a mature, real place. They were simply about how he'd wanted to appear. Words designed to provoke a reaction and grant him Emotional Control.

March 31, 2011 - 1:47pm (Reply to #53)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture


You have such an astute understanding and handle of all of this...THANK GOD!...cause until that comes to light...oye vey...woe is me...!

I also think picking up on what you are saying...if you think about it...

They are so disconnected and detached from themselves...because they don't feel are essentially ROBOTS? The carry over from exes factor?

On some level, I think they desperately try to hold on to what they think will work to keep the supply for as long as they can, as FEAR also motivates them...they are desperate to keep you for as long as they can but they KNOW it won't last because they just know it won't last...

So they go back to their old files and say: OKAY...ex liked scented soaps...NEW WOMAN...scented soap...I lost ex because I didn't do well in the scented soap department...BUY NEW supply Scented soap...*CHECK* almost robotically - BUT when you are no longer a good supply because say, you worked overtime or something and weren't there in his moment of need - because of their black and white thinking you are now BLACK...so now it becomes...MUST PUNISH SUPPLY...OLD EX DID SUCH AND SUCH...NEW SUPPLY IS DOING SUCH AND SUCH...BOTH BLACK...DESTROY DESTROY DESTROY...


I really think it is that automatic with them...

March 31, 2011 - 10:09am (Reply to #51)

The way they punish us.

So, so true. I begged the narc to let me arrange his foster child's baptism, so . . . he arranged it behind my back with one of the other women.. It was very important to her so . . . he had the child baptized behind her both of our backs. I begged him all the time to take me for drives in his car. Never once did but made a point of forcing her to go for drives with him. I asked him repeatedly if we could go stay at a hotel and swim with our kids during the winter. Nope, but every weekend she was in town he insisted on swimming in the hotel pool with her and the child. I begged him to have intercourse with me but we could only have dirty "anything-but" sex. With her, he wouldn't even French kiss her. But lots and lots of intercourse. I asked him to marry me and he kept saying he wasn't sure about marriage. He begged and begged her for it and she refused. Wouldn't dress up for her in a million years but would deiberately dress up for me without my even asking. It was the same thing with friends, too: he would drop everything--including work-- to meet them for lunch, have coffee, go to the ball game, go out of town, go golfing, but for us girls he was always: 'working' or 'can't get free'
The second he knew you wanted something, he was dtermined to NOT give it to you, even if he himself wanted it.

March 31, 2011 - 10:43am (Reply to #52)

This brought back so many

This brought back so many memories. A girl many, many yrs ago broke up with the exN 2 weeks after he gave her flowers. I asked one time why I never got any and he told me that story. So, he doesn't give girls flowers anymore. Every place he took me, he took the women before me to. And now, his childbride. He told me he paid for text messages so, told me not to text. But, the OW did. Whatever he told me not to do, OW were doing it. It hurts to know how they played these games. As my current therapist said, he plays with people and she is confident he is doing it with the childbride now. She is no different from me or the women before. He had to get married to prove to himself and his family he isn't all the horrible things, the truth, I said about him. He won't be able to keep the mask up for anytime. Pathology does not change or sustain change. That is what I tell myself every day I wake up.

March 28, 2011 - 3:14pm
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture


First, understand and this will take time...you are asking these questions regarding the perspective of a personality disordered individual. I had some questions the other night and my panties were twisted in a bunch...my cousin answered very well: "Do you understand you are trying to figure out a pathological?" Now I will try to answer these as best I can...

I have a question... If I am so pretty, smart, cute, funny, a good catch... all the things I have been told (not from N from other men)

Are you doubting that you are pretty, smart, cute, funny and a good catch? Don't. You are...that's why he picked you. BUT whether he picked you or not, or whether anyone "picks" you or not and you know the hell with "picked" cause we're not here to be picked...we need to start owning we have a choice too...we can decide too...so that being the case we can also OWN outside of anyone elses "validation" that we ARE...pretty, smart, cute, funny and a good catch. Here's a question for you: Do you own it?


Uh, again, PD states that anything is good enough because they are disordered. His rejection says nothing, nor did his picking of you. He's a predator you were a target. This is an isolated incident, it's not the norm. This is a moot question...it has no validity...yes it's in your mind, and yes we ask that...but again, see my cousin's widsom...you are trying to apply "reason" to a situation regarding an individual who is pathological. You will drive yourself crazy.

Let's re-direct...Do you really believe he is a pathological? Do you understand and have you accepted what that means?


Replace "Somebody" with the word toaster. I'm sorry to be blunt but we have to get real...and it hurts and I'm hugging you as I say this...we have to get real about the facts of what we are dealing with. It hurts but the quicker we get real, the quicker we can see it isn't personal, nor has any validity about a "statement" of our true worth in the land of normals.


Remove Honestly...we know that you weren't that effin bad. DO you own this yet?


The illusion had you thnking you clicked. He's not in touch with his real self...he operates on the false self. You clicked cause he was mirroring, and you were having a relationship with the best parts of yourself which is why you clicked. We've all been there. AND this should if you accept this make you feel really good because that means' you are excuse me for a moment..."Fucking FANTASTIC"!!!

(I dont want a ring just an example)

Depends on who is giving the ring...and no, you don't want one from him.


A number of factors...but they are chamelions and manipulators...if he felt he could get by doing bare minimum because you "understood" well that is where it's at. Don't feel bad, I was in the squattage department myself...it just is...be happy, less effort in getting rid of the gifts...less effort you have to put into the severance...that's the upside.


Uh, number of slots for bread?...remember...we are toasters to them...she is too hun...


Yes to the first no to the second question...

Anyone? I could use some help because as you can see-- today has not been the best day.

Hope it helped...keep venting Beam, it will get better I promise...let it out, let alllll of it out.

They are pathological...they feign emotions, they are empty shells, they are dead inside...walking zombies that look good on the outside.


March 28, 2011 - 2:39pm

please help me with these questions

Why is he with a lady who looks like a hooker now?
Why is he proud to have her on on his FB after a few months but never had a photo of me up for 10 years?
Why did he dump me after he moved and said we were we not breaking up?
Is he really this superficial?
Why is he taking her places he never took me?
I am attractive and someone a man could be proud of
Why is he more proud of a cheap looking hooters lady?
Has he made a commitment to her in a few months after keeping me at bay for 10 years?
Is is just sex and image with her?
Was it just sex with me?
Why was he more comfortable with me in his real life than anyone else?
Is this lady just for show?
How can he just stop speaking to me after 12 years and not bother to even say we broke up? Why does he sound sincere when he says he misses me?
Do they really prefer their new toys and are we really just old dust to them? I still can't face the pain squarely - but I am not jealous of her, just very very horrified....
Did he want a fake type lady all along? Why did he bother having me as his long time girlfriend? he could have had the young fake ones the whole time...

March 28, 2011 - 3:28pm (Reply to #46)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Ifinallygotit...your turn!

Why is he with a lady who looks like a hooker now?

Cause they like attention and this hooker gives the image of some super "feigned, imagined" sexual prowess

Why is he proud to have her on on his FB after a few months but never had a photo of me up for 10 years?

Cause he has an image he wants to project...FALSE one but nonetheless an Image...

Why did he dump me after he moved and said we were we not breaking up?

Cause they enjoy mindgames.

Is he really this superficial?


Why is he taking her places he never took me?

Because that is what he needs to do to secure this particular source of supply...ever see an addict? They do all kinds of things to score. It's not personal, just part of the game.

I am attractive and someone a man could be proud of
Why is he more proud of a cheap looking hooters lady?

Because again, it makes him "look" like he's a STUD bar none and it feeds his insecurity...

Has he made a commitment to her in a few months after keeping me at bay for 10 years?

She's easy prey, low maintenance, and a steady source of secondary supply. What? Secondary supply what do you speak of Michele?...Well, once he secures we all become secondary supply, we're the ones that get taken for granted while he goes outside looking for newer fresher sources...so tell me whose the lucky one in this scenario Ifinallygotit?

Is is just sex and image with her?


Was it just sex with me?

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...BUT it isn't personal...people are objects to fill needs...supply.

Why was he more comfortable with me in his real life than anyone else?

Because that is the illusion he sold you. He's not comfortable with anyone but gaming you conning you and making you think that keeps you off his trail and allows him to continue wearing the mask. Also makes you feel "special" and they know how we loooove to feel so "special" so this works for them...

Is this lady just for show?


How can he just stop speaking to me after 12 years and not bother to even say we broke up?

Because he got tired of playing with this particular toy...for now which is why you are now asking:

Why does he sound sincere when he says he misses me?

AND just like a toy, we don't always throw them out, we get bored with them, we play with our new toy, but we own the old toy too and when we want, we can bring the old toy down from the shelf and play with it until we decide we've outgrown it for good, usually when we get more interesting toys and we have such a biiiig collection of toys, it's nothing to finally dump it for good. It's called securing a back up plan...he's setting the stage for that...keeping you on a string...just in case cause it's all about control and ownerhship....Toy...Toaster...whatever...

Do they really prefer their new toys and are we really just old dust to them?


I still can't face the pain squarely - but I am not jealous of her, just very very horrified....

Yes...it is horrorfying...very much so and that is what causes the temporary trauma/shock state...you will get past it as time moves on and you keep sharing with the ladies here...we've all been there...all of our stories are identical, so either this is the truth or we're all CRAZY...and I don't think we're crazy as even the shrinks avoid these characters like the plague.

Did he want a fake type lady all along?

No, he desperately wants to be real but he never will be...and it is not your job to turn pinnochio into a real boy...that only works in the magic of Disney.

Why did he bother having me as his long time girlfriend?

Safety and security of supply

He could have had the young fake ones the whole time...

AND he might have...what comes out in the wash with these characters DOES NOT always come out in the rinse.

READ, SHARE, RANT...get it out...and heal.

Warm hugs my dear...we have all been there...I was a basket case...the emotions go up and down up and down and it's all normal and part of the process. I know it sounds cliche, like B.S. but it is the truth...EVERY woman here has and is in your shoes.


March 20, 2011 - 7:48pm
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture



First, the ups and downs you are going through are perfectly normal. However, I do feel compelled to shake you some on a thought you are having...you said:

"Sad part is-- I really think that this man-- somewhere, someway, somehow-- is my guy."

Apparantly, you do realize this is not rational thought because then you ask:

Please all tell me how to get this crazy notion out of my head. Why do I want to defy all logic???

I believe the reason why is due to cognitive dissonance. In laymans terms...what you have gone through, what you have learned is "unbelievable" and your brain is trying to unscramble all of it because it defies all logic as you once knew it.

See, I think it's fair to say that before we all landed here, we were "asleep" we had no clue then this information and the reality hits us like a ton of bricks and we are essentially in shock and scrambling for any way to make it "AIN'T SO" this is a very normal reaction - but the first step is to un-do it by arming ourselves with knowledge and understanding not only the condition but the process of how our brains are processing and not so much why he...whatever...but also what is causing our minds to swivel. It ain't easy...won't even try to tell you that...but below are three articles which I think would be good beginnings as I think you at least for now "cognitively" understand what you're dealing with...Owning it - that will take time...but below, are some articles that might explain it better.

He is not the one...stick to the board...we need to brainwash ourselves and undo HIS damage.





March 31, 2011 - 10:25am (Reply to #44)


What michele said is so true: one of their greatest weapons is the fact that the things they do are so unbelieveable. "No one could act like that." "No one could do something like that." "No one could say that." But they can and they do. But because we are human--and really nice humans usually--we literally can't believe it's happening. CAN'T believe it.

My narc and "our" four year old foster child spend Christmas Eve at my house two years ago with my little girls and me. His whole family and several of his friends came to dinner, which I cooked. We ate, drank, sang, played cards, opened gifts, and then we all went to bed, the narc and our "son" and me sleeping in my bed and my girls in the next room. In the morning, his brother came over and we went to Mass and had breakfast together. Then my daughters and I went to my mom's because the narc said he had to work. In reality they went from my house on Christmas morning to a hotel downtown, where they had Christmas dinner with the other woman and several of the narc's friends--who I was close to as well-opened presents, and spent the whole day together. Before they came home, the narc's brother went swimming in the hotel pool with the child while the narc and the other woman had sex in the room. They got into a fight because he said he had to work and couldn't spend the night, though she had flown in from California to spend the week with him. He came to my house afterward and spent the night with me. The next day, I got my period. I had thought I was pregnant and we had been trying to conceive. He and his brother and the child left and he didn't answer the phone for three days. He told me later that he was devastated because I wasn't pregnant and "had to be alone for awhile." They had picked up the other woman and had gone to Lake Geneva for three days stay at his friend's summer home and party.

This stuff cannot happen. Who could do this stuff--with a little kid watching it all? A little kid who both women thought was going to be her adoptive child? And your brother in on it? And your friends? It can't happen. People don't do stuff like this. They can't. But they CAN.

Please keep in mind, too, that the narc and his brother are both judges in Chicago. Judges. And second generation judges from a wealthy family. This ain't the freaking Maury Show.

March 20, 2011 - 7:09pm

did you ever speak up

when you were with him? That could be one reason. I realized, they either "fall in love" with women unavailable, married and exgfs that dont want them anymore really, and then they tend to commit to women who never critisized them, never spoke up for themselves, kept up with their BS.

If you were the type that showed the slightest sign of self worth, dared to critisized him, dared to show lowest signs of standards, or called him on his BS behaviour, even if it was just once, that could be the reason, why he didnt choose you, and prefered the other woman.

March 31, 2011 - 10:30am (Reply to #41)


That's so true. The only permanent women in the narc's life are the three he has shitted on for twenty years without making a peep. They have zero self esteem, are terrified of losing him in their lives, and will let him do whatever he wants. Not one has ever set foot in his house. Not one has ever ASKED to either. But they will give him the shirt off their backs, money, free babysitting, sex, food, clothes, time, attention, whatever and whenever he pleases. They have mastered the art of expressing affection and attention without demanding anything at all, ever.

March 31, 2011 - 10:39am (Reply to #42)


see thats what I am saying. You cannot win with a narcissist, and if you are the one he chooses it means you must have given up all your needs and even the lowest of lowest standards.
My friend yogilala made me realize that, her narc that is hoovering her like crazy and promises her the world, said, that she never, not once, spoke up for herself in front of him, she never showed him her real self, so it made her the best supply he could ever get and now he tries to get her back in every way possible. She is consistent in NC, and she will stay silent and she will be "the one who got away". Its the best she can do now and the sweetest revenge you can do.

I realized when i was D&D, everytime he did that, it was when I was onto him, spoke up for me and called him on his BS behaviour and lies. Then he would say he doesnt want to be with someone that doesnt respect him. Uhuh...of course.

Thats the damn truth. If he runs away from you, its because you were too strong for him.

March 20, 2011 - 6:07pm


I met the ex-Psych professor's girlfriend only once. She had given up her job in LA and had moved in with him. She&I had a nice conversation... rather than a cat fight. The ex-P didn't introduce her to his colleagues (he could've done the "don't mind her, she's nuts" and introduced him to his fellow profs, but no) The longer she&I talked, the darker his eyes went... and he went running down the stairs. When the girlfriend realized he was gone, she went running down the stairs to catch up with him. He physically abandoned her in front of everyone.

Just as he wasn't physically affectionate with me, he wasn't physically affectionate with her. They didn't hold hands. He didn't put his arm around her shoulders. They didn't kiss. They acted like siblings instead of love birds. For some odd reason, I was *REALLY* disappointed. He was so cold&emotionless I expected him to be affectionate, at least with her. Then he hoovered me&I ignored him.

I honestly think he wanted to string both his girlfriend&I along (he was begging for my home address&phone for when I moved off-campus)... and settle with the one he impregnated (because that's what one of his colleagues did, because the professor was living with two female identical twins&sleeping with both of them) Of course, I thwarted that triangulation in the bud. He was also into the Shakespeare play "Measure for Measure", in which the evil sex-hating Angelo tries to coerce the prospective nun Isabella into sex to save her brother... but ends up sleeping with Mariana (who resembles Isabella)... and since his punishment for sex outside of marriage is execution, he gets in trouble. The ex-P was into twinning. The girlfriend LOOKED LIKE ME. And to make things weirder, she looked A LOT like him. She wore retro glasses like him;she had a crew cut like him;she dressed in a butch way in neutral/dark colors.

Did he treat her better than me?

Not at all. It was *IMPOSSIBLE* to be jealous when he treated her just as badly in front of me.

March 20, 2011 - 6:23pm (Reply to #37)

but didnt it bother you that

but didnt it bother you that SHE got the official title of GIRLFRIEND? I am sorry, but I am struggling with this.

And you know whats so funny? I just posted like 2 days aho to JMI and told her how her guy will do the same thing to the new woman as was done to her.

Oh, like I said-- I wax and waine. I think a lot has to do with my (eh-hem... excuse me) cycle. When it's "that time" I am SO much more emotional.

March 20, 2011 - 6:56pm (Reply to #39)

Haha Beam! I know just what

Haha Beam! I know just what you mean - one day we feel empowered and sure of what we preach to eachother.....the next we are faultering!!

I spoke with my sister about this at length tonight (my nephew - her son - happened to see the gruesome twosome this evening) And you know what you are completely right - they will be having the best time right now, its the honeymoon period for her and unfortunately this means i will have to accept that for the next year or so they will be love's young dream.........

Fast forward a few years and i'm pretty sure the 'exception' will be dealing with the same shit i did AND if by chance she ain't it just means it's gonna take a few years more

I'm not great with words but its that thing everyone on here keeps saying......

the best predictor of what people are gonna do in their future - is to look to their past!

Stay strong Beam you're one i'm looking to for inspiration!!


March 20, 2011 - 6:40pm (Reply to #38)

The "Official" Girlfriend

I dated A LOT my junior year... much to the ex-Psych professor's chagrin. He complained about it to his students in class... that's what I heard through the grapevine from my friends. I felt MORE comfortable with the men I was casually dating than with the ex-P. By my junior year, I was incredibly shaky when I had lunch with him. He was standing me up at concerts/lectures, berating me for volunteering, and then there was the openly gay prof (with whom I think he had a brief liaison) warning me about getting any more involved with him.

Major doubts were surfacing my junior year. He was giving me the silent treatment. We'd talk about movies, but not much else. He defended the Bard's conduct in "Shakespeare in Love" when he romances Gwyneth Paltrow but doesn't tell her he's already married. It was a fictional movie... and my friends compared the ex-P to the Colin Firth character in "Shakespeare" who's the older man who's coercing Paltrow into a loveless marriage.

To some extent, yes, it bothered me that SHE was the *OFFICIAL* girlfriend. But what bothered me more was that he didn't tell me about her than the fact she existed. As I told the ex-P "I'm not mad that you have a girlfriend, I'm mad that you didn't tell me about her."

After the roller coaster of my junior year, and the cruelty of the final D&D (during which I felt unwanted)... I was quite ready to give him up. The girlfriend was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I was so angry at the ex-P on account of HIS cruelty I wasn't going to waste my wrath on a poor woman who I barely knew. It's like there was a deficit. I was 99.99% angry at the ex-P... and for some reason, I was barely, if at all, angry at her.

I didn't get to know the girlfriend. Perhaps she was a normal woman, just brainwashed like I had been. Perhaps she was as much a Narc as him (the villainous dictator's girlfriend in "Solarbabies" resembles her) I don't know.

The ex-P saw life as a play... I saw her as the cue for my exit. She made a bigger sacrifice than me. She gave up her job to be with him. She moved to another state. I was just a student. Who was I to judge her?

Now with the ex-P, on the other hand....

March 20, 2011 - 6:22am

Trail of Tears

There should be a permanent Topic somewhere on this board for the response to this post. Particularly the responses by women who have contacted the past women, or the women who followed.

Cause what is discovered is a TRAIL OF TEARS & abuse & financial loss. I was contacted by the woman who replaced me after I left my N. And, thereafter, I found & contacted his first ex-wife of 20 years. I am the 2nd ex-wife & I lasted 2 1/2 years.

In the 7 years since the end of his 20 year marriage, he has had 2 live-in girlfriends (one was a fiancee) & a wife (me). And, there is another woman there now (she be 4) & perhaps she is gone & now there is a 5th (who knows).

Me, my replacement, & the first ex-wife all told the same story. Our N says the same lines to each woman. "You make me happier than any woman ever has in my life." Etc. He is violent, aggressive, manipulative, and liar to each woman. While mine was living with and getting engaged to my replacement -- he was sending me love letter e-mails. My replacement was very upset when she read these letters. He had shamelessly lied to her.

And, he found out that all three of us met. He contacted his first ex-wife & said that my replacement was "out to get him, a liar, manipulative, and dangerous." Amazing projection of himself. Like everything the woman says is MY experience of him. How can she be a liar? Maybe he's the liar & gaslighting us--denying our experience of his being a liar, manipulative, and dangerous. And, after 7 years of divorce, he still thinks he can control his first ex-wife.

Pity this woman who got a ring. Pity her even more if he marries her. And even greater if she has his baby. Because she will have this ball & chain around her neck forever. I was in a 6 month courtship & a 2 1/2 year marriage. I started with my N in March 2006 & now it is March 2011. I left him 22 months ago. I am still trying to put my life back after the debacle of a 3 year relationship. Him. He's already had two significant relationships since the day I left, even been engaged before we were divorced. THREE years of my life wasted on an abuser. (The abuse only started shortly after the marriage, never saw it before.) Another TWO years in recovery! FIVE years. It is a Trail of Tears with these pathologicals.

March 20, 2011 - 4:23pm (Reply to #33)

Thank you. I really need to

Thank you. I really need to hear this over and over. I think it's because my ex "what-ever-he-was" would tell me constantly "I would change my ways for the right woman, I just have to be with the right one, you really dont know me do you, I want the right one, I'm tired of being like this" "I am actually a very loyal man-- I have just not found the right woman yet"


It felt like he was saying "beam, give me a chance, I've learned my lesson-- give me a chance to show you who I really am"

Sorry all. it was one of those days.

Sad part is-- I really think that this man-- somewhere, someway, somehow-- is my guy.

Please all tell me how to get this crazy notion out of my head. Why do I want to defy all logic???

I have even added this song to my morning workout routien.


Thank God for the little feature on the ipod "song repeat" I have already logged on 201 plays.

I need a hobby, seriously.

March 20, 2011 - 4:46pm (Reply to #34)

He told me Sick of it "I am

He told me Sick of it "I am so happy I have another chance with you" and the MOFO proceeded to do it all over again.

March 20, 2011 - 6:24pm (Reply to #35)

that annoys me to read.

that annoys me to read. f&ckers.

March 20, 2011 - 6:20am


Please read IMSTRONGS post about, it is not you,getting over yourself, it will be very enlightening to you..............It has nothing to do with you as a person, absolutely nothing, it is HIM

March 20, 2011 - 5:46pm (Reply to #31)

Beamoflight I too beleive you

Beamoflight I too beleive you should take time out of your hected narcfilled day and relax...destress and read my post of "its not all about you -get over yourselves" onwithmylife I agree shes in need of a wake up call..and to dump all the narc garbage back on him and his wacko mom..read beam read..you will see the truth

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

March 20, 2011 - 6:14am

Heres the mantra "he can not

Heres the mantra "he can not change he will never change " which means everything you went through she too will go through .. there are no exceptions to this rule apart form it may just take longer or shorter for his true colours to come out .

March 20, 2011 - 1:32am

I beleive its a natural

I beleive its a natural reflex to become questionable or even jealous when your man leaves you for another woman..its never a clean ego state ...i beleive even for the healthiest and most self esteem people..we hurt sometimes and left dazed and confused.

Its a total TKO

We have been nocked silly then on to the new challenger...its our responsibilty to bounce back ..collect our thoughts and leave the ring a winner.

The question is no longer why but how can I win after such a big loss...ask yourself that..you may be shocked by your answer..

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

March 20, 2011 - 1:20am

I guess now I see what the

I guess now I see what the other ladies are talking about in the response of cheating with not there type thread..

You make very clear how the narc didnt tell you all those positive things but others did..

I have one question for you..what can you say about yourself?..what are the positives you can come up with..thats not told by them or the narc...

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

March 19, 2011 - 11:41pm


Oh no, don't talk like this. Aw, no one person is better than any other person. Not in this whole universe. That's only the rejection talking. The new girl is just desirable right now, because she's new. She is- as Michele says- the new toaster. A play thing. You know what? When she isn't new anymore, he'll hoover back around to you. Which will be such a shame for him. Because by then, you'll already have his number down pat, and won't give him a second thought! Humpft!

March 19, 2011 - 10:32pm
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Hey Beam...

I am so sorry you are having a hard time tonight...yea, I think the moon is working on us some cause I was doing okay and I'm back to wanting to spit nails...well not so bad but had an emotional day...I feel a little edgy...but I have some more time under my belt...I'll feel what I feel the heck with it...AND you know, I think a lot has to be said, not just for you but for all of us.

I really feel that we really need to just say the heck with it and feel what we need to feel whatever it is.

There is so much shame attached to negative feelings. I can only speak for myself, but for me, I think throughout my life, and in a way this was a blessing what has happened because I've learned how to be true to me and let it all hang out...to accept me for me warts and all. If I wanna be pissy or should I say if I feel pissy then pissy you're gonna get until I don't feel like being pissy, if I wanna be angry, or sad or whatever I'm gonna be it until I don't wanna be it and I don't care what you think or feel cause it's about ME now. I mean that in my personal life of course, not on the board...ahem...BUT I think that we have to give ourselves permission to FEEL...ALL of it. Every emotion we have is a valid, legitimate emotion.

Earlier today, I posted an article about how society as a whole has kinda molded us into co-dependence. Sickofit and I have differing views, but I think her perspective is just as legitimate - I think some may in fact have co-dependence issues, and I think for others we may not be co-dependent, but we've been molded to take on co-dependent behaviors by society. I will try to find that article again and post it here in an edit when I'm done...it should be at the bottom of this post...

Beamoflight, I know you read the article by Sandra Brown...I did too and it really is the truth. Look, the man is disordered and that is something that has to be accepted. I don't mean to sound like this is one great big man hating witch hunt and we're out to castigate and emascualte these men and just think so badly of them...but in this case my dear, we are victims of disordered men...that's why we're all sittin here in the states were in...in diffeent stages but united by the pain and damage these men have caused as a result of thieir disorder.

The thing is beam, we can't afford to wear the rose colored glasses anymore, we can't continue to brainwash ourselves with magical thinking and fantasy. It is painful to know that these men can just detach and walk off and not give us a second thought - but THE REALITY IS THE DISORDER NEVER ALLOWED THEM TO ATTACH IN THE FIRST PLACE. That IS the reality.

They pretended, they faked it and it is part of the disorder. If it brings you peace...hate the disorder and not him but you have to stay away, he is harmful and he is dangerous...this relationship already has your self esteem in the toilet and you know beam...I saw your writing the other day, you were pretty cheerful...very much in your writing I saw a "beam of light" but this man will only try to dim your light...and the LIE is that all these things your thinking are detrimental and destructive to the beauty that exists within you.

WE are all beautiful in our own way, we all have special gifts, it is our soul that matters darling, our spirit and I have yet to encounter one "ugly" spirit anywhere on this board...

Earlier today I was pissy...and I put the other woman through the mud, called the poor thing a beached whale...and you know - I know that's not right but it's what I had to do to feel good. But you know, she's a victim too, I just don't feel like embracing it right now and you ladies are my sisters and I'ma let it hang out sometimes, I'm right in here with you in recovery...BUT beam, we have these moments...we have these ups and downs...

Ride the wave beam, get through the night and feel what you need to feel. Let it all hang out....GET IT OUT....that is what is sooooooo important in all of this...you don't have to be rosy if you don't want to be...you can say the most atrocious nastiest things...about him and HER if you like...this is the place to let it out. This is your support, this is your anchor...stick to the board Beam and let it out.

It's gonna take time, and it is a process...I'm telling you I was here 24/7 in the beginning...this is where you take that ginormous emotional crap...because not doing it is damaging...this was not a normal break-up this was a sick relationship and our minds have been scrambled like an egg.

Heck, do a search on my posts dear...NUTS in the beginning I tell you...some of them...so many stages, so many feelings...you are not alone and you are not crazy but we are all here for you dear...

AND you are so much more than what you're thinking about yourself right now...I felt an energy from your writing...AND no, I'm not psychic but you just get feelings sometimes and I kinda sense a bubblyniess about you?

Get a good night's rest if you can and check in at least daily...if you have nothing to say, just read...but beamoflight, I promise you - you will get through this.

Hope I see you tomorrow...

Gonna go get that article now and try to post it on the bottom.

Sweet dreams...and like I said, no need to front or be the "strong" girl, or sweep the crap under the rug...the only way to heal is to let all the nasties out.


Here's the Article CORRECTION: Sick of It Found it...I read it but I thought it was quite good.


March 20, 2011 - 4:27pm (Reply to #25)

this was great. wow, thank

this was great. wow, thank you. YOU get it. I dont yet ..lol.. but YOU DO! I forget who told me I dont get it-- I said i did get it-- honestly, they were right. I dont get it all yet.

I am going to look up your old posts.

When does it pass-- the whole "but I know deep down he's different, I just know it" pass?

The whole "but I know, if I see him this time it will be different" pass-- because let's face it-- he has not changed in the last 3 years why would he change now.

When does the common sense kick in?????

March 20, 2011 - 4:40am (Reply to #24)

Michelle luv ya because your

Michelle luv ya because your so real..no silicone non of that fake shit..you are the real deal..that narc lost a great one..his loss

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

March 20, 2011 - 3:25am (Reply to #23)


Awesome post. You uplifted many not just Beam. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I would be thrilled t o develop half your depth and understanding of this mess, this disorder, the overwhelming task of rebuilding self-esteem and a decent life - I feel much the same as Beam- how could he spend 10 years with me and after just a few months being doing things with new GF that I had always wanted him to do with me. But I am not jealous because I know too much now and do not think he has changed for someone. Also, it is not my business what he does or who he sees...
You write so well..

March 19, 2011 - 10:17pm

something else to consider

Why do we always assume the OW is better than us? Why not turn that thinking around, maybe WE were the woman they truly fantasize about having but KNOW they could never keep, maybe they are just plain secure and comfortable with who they have and know the woman they are with would not abandon them, after all that is one of their biggest fears.

We are we so hard on ourselves, why do we doubt our worth and value so much? In my two month of NC do you know it STILL eats at me that he chose her over me? That he remained with her the entire time we had our relationship of 4 years, of course in the beginning I was told their relationship was not good and not going anywhere but you all know that story... bla bla bla Sometimes we may never know exactly why but what is important to remember its never because we were less than their sig other and can we really say, oh gee he must love her more, ya right. He is not with her because he loves her, their relationship is NOT healthy, he is with her because he NEEDS her, and you know what the needs are of a disordered person.

Remove LOVE from this equation and replace it with the primal needs of these disordered individuals, they never loved us and they certainly will never love the person they are with so in retrospect are either one of us getting a better deal, or the best of them? It bothered me too and I still struggle with wondering what the hell did she have that I didnt? If the truth be known, NOT A DAMN THING. Do you know what she has that I dont have? SHE HAS HIM and with that I know I am better off x0x0x0

March 19, 2011 - 10:27pm (Reply to #21)


"Do you know what she has that I dont have? SHE HAS HIM and with that I know I am better off"

Yes yes yes!

You said it!

March 19, 2011 - 9:54pm

Have you asked yourself what

Have you asked yourself what makes HIM undeserving of YOU? Or why YOU are no longer with him? Or why this relationship is not good enough for YOU? Or why YOU are so much better than this relationship? Or how YOU are smart enough to no longer put up with his BS? Or how YOU are strong enough to draw a line and not allow him the privilege of being with YOU an extra day?

All pretty much different ways of asking the same thing. But as much as I struggle with my own recovery, posts like these makes me sad to see how a sick person caused us to essentially flip our perspectives so that literally everything revolves around him. as if HE is the point of reference, and you are just the variable factor.

Remember all of the ways HE was not good enough for YOU.

I am really sorry you are going through a tough day. Stay strong. Sending you a big hug.

March 19, 2011 - 9:44pm
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sandra Brown/The Other Woman, Now He's Happy With Her

Suggested by: Staying Strong 78 *Thank u

The Other Woman - Now He's Happy... with HER!
by Sandra Brown, MA

Nothing cranks a woman up more than going thru a drama-filled ending of her dysfunctional, pathological, abusive, addicted and/or sick relationship ONLY to find he rapidly moved on and now seems 'so happy.' Women tend to conclude it must have been 'her' and if he can be happy with someone else and not her, well then... it was some shortcoming in her and she needs to study up to figure out just what 'went wrong.'

Ladies, ladies, ladies... by now you have been reading enough to be able to 'chant' the ABC's of Pathology I have been teaching you

Pathology Is The Inability To:

�change and sustain a change
�grow to any emotional depth and
�develop meaningful insight about one's own behavior and how it effects others.

So what you have to ask yourself is how were his previous relationships? I don't mean what he TOLD you they were (all her fault, she was a psycho, sleaze, stalker or whack job) but what REALLLLYYY happened in them. If you developed a Relationship Time Line and wrote out all his relationships from his teen years forward AND the'quality' of them and why they ended, what would you conclude? How successful IS this man in maintaining healthy relationships?

Yup... that's what I thought.

How was his relationship with you? No, I'm not talking about the honeymoon cycle when both of you are living off of endorphins. I'm talking about the guts of the thing... the meat and bones of it. So, he has a history of his own 'Trail of Tears' -- a path littered with the lives of wounded women and children? Your relationship has left you as one more statistic of his pathological heart breaks.

Now, there's 'HER' -- appearing all happy, snuggly and 'in love'! You see her as getting all the good parts of him you always loved and NONE OF THE BAD parts! After all, the reason you left him was all that BAD STUFF! Doesn't it make you want to call her up and tell her what's just around the corner in the relationship? Doesn't it make you want to curl up in a fetal position and cry that he has 'found happiness in the arms of another?' Doesn't it make you sick in the pit of your stomach or consume you with intrusive and obsessive thoughts about how wonderfully 'in love' he is?


Repeat after me:
"Pathology is the inability to change"
"the best predictor of HIS future behavior is his past behavior"

So just what does THAT mean? There are honeymoon phases of every relationship. Lovers live on the high of the 'falling in love stage.' We already know that pathologicals don't 'technically' fall in love but they do hang around and experience some level of attachment. But, YOU experienced the whole endorphin falling in love sensation. Well, so is SHE!

How long did yours last? A few weeks, months or maybe a year or two of ok-ness? What happened next? Oh yeah, you found out his lies or noticed his inconsistency, or asked him to work, or caught him cheating... once you confronted him then you got the narcissistic rage, then maybe the aloofness, or maybe he even packed up and left.

Guess what's gonna happen AGAIN? There will be the honeymoon for her, then she will notice his lies, inconsistency, ask him to work or catch him cheating, then she'll eventually confront him (or live forever with the miserable-ness of knowing what he's doing and not having the ovaries to confront him) and then he'll rage, punish her, reject her, ignore her and/or leave.

~VIOLA~ she is now on his 'Stepford Wives List of Rejects'. She's one more tear on his 'Trail of Tears.' You haven't seen behind their closed doors to know what SHE's dealing with... he hasn't changed -- he's hardwired so she's going to be dealing with the same thing you did. It's just a matter of WHEN.

If I were a gambling girl, I'd put my money every stinking time on the consistency of pathology and his inability to ever change in ANY relationship -- the previous one, yours, or the future ones. She's not getting the best of ANYTHING. She's you. And in a short time, she'll be another statistic. If pathology doesn't change, this relationship is wired for destruction.There are NO happy endings in relationships with pathologicals.There are no pumpkin drawn carriages, no sweet little house with three children... scratch that record! Stop attributing normal characteristics to a profoundly abnormal person.

Women spend all their precious emotional energy on obsessing about the quality of his relationship with the next victim instead of working on themselves -- using that energy for their own healing. They live in a fantasy world where they are deprived of this wonderful relationship and he is off living the life of a normal person.This fantasy does not end with "And they lived happily ever after."

Remember the last two weeks newsletters when I wrote that positive memories stay up front and are easily accessed and bad memories are put in the back and harder to access? This is the same thing... you put the positive fantasy thoughts of him being happy with someone up front and totally forgethow this horror flick is going to end.

Take a deep breath and snap back to reality... she hasn't got anything you haven't already gotten from him -- MISERY. If she doesn't have it right now, she will have it shortly.

Once you really 'get it' about the permanence of pathology you'll understand that his ability to be different in the relationship doesn't exist. If he was capable, he would have done the changing with you. But he didn't -- and he won't. Whatever exists right now is that honeymoon cycle until she realizes what he is and ISN'T -- and what he can NEVER be. Don't bother picking up the phone and telling her what he is and isn't. Just worry about your own recovery ... from this moment on, it's all about you! .

March 20, 2011 - 6:34am (Reply to #18)


you have done some great posts, but this is one is your BEST, I understand all you have been saying, being on this board for so long, but you brought it all to a head. Mine did not leave me for another women, he just left to be by himself, realizing I think to some extent that he is a sick man, emotionally, so I never dealt with the 'other woman,' but reading what you said about examining his past relationships with women, I was number 5, was still an eyeopener for me and the realization it was never about me, but him and his inability to maintain a normal, loving, intimate, relationship with a woman, ANY woman, and I owed it ll to his Narc mother and the horrible number she did on him for life. I remember reading some time ago in the throngs of getting over him, that a boy toddler must make the break from his mother,by age 5 years old and how crucial it is for the father to help the boy make the break, it never happened for my narc.

March 19, 2011 - 10:33pm (Reply to #16)

AWESOME Michele115

What you wrote was amazing. Its a keeper. Infact, I am going to print it for a reminder when I start trippin'!!! Thank you!!!

March 19, 2011 - 10:35pm (Reply to #17)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture


Thank you dear...I'm glad you got something from it too...

March 19, 2011 - 9:54pm (Reply to #15)

Thank you. I am reading all

Thank you.

I am reading all the comments from women after the artical and even as I read them all-- I still wonder if she is his exception.

Ahhh, "and in the light of the morning sun--this to shall pass."

I need to get my head back on straight and be thankful for what I have. Just look at those poor people in Japan.

I seriously need a reality check. I need to wake the f-up.

Thank you michele115 for posting it-- I hope it sinks in, gnight.

March 19, 2011 - 9:22pm

I'm so sorry ur having a

I'm so sorry ur having a rough night:(

There is an article by Sandra Brown, called "the other woman: now he's happy with her?"

( i'd post the link but I'm not sure how the rules work with that, but its easy to google)

I found it VERY helpful and maybe you will to:)

Take care

March 19, 2011 - 9:50pm (Reply to #13)

I am reading it. yes, it is

I am reading it. yes, it is helping.

Honestly, I still have the feeling that with "her" he'll be different and love her and treat her the way I have always wanted him to love and treat me.

I hope tomorrow is better. I'm going to go to sleep.

Gnight all.

March 19, 2011 - 9:18pm

Makes no difference

I'm hear to tell you, and hopefully relieve you, that I was the other woman who got tons of flowers, showered with gifts, almost the ring, paraded on his arm...only to be discarded over and over again for a plain younger person that he had no plans to ever marry and hid her from friends.
Truth is, once we get upset and are on to them and they know it, they go back again to the OW. They are such wimps and pu**ys that they cannot be alone for 5 minutes. They would die. So at this point, they sprint into survival mode and get off on the back and forth drama, like we are ping pong balls in their sick little game.
Trust me, they end up treating all of us in the exact same saddist way.

March 19, 2011 - 9:22pm (Reply to #11)

why is that? Why is it that

why is that? Why is it that they run to the OW? That's what I dont get.

I know-- I have to go back to saying this over and over


I do hope it kicks in 100% one of these days. I wax and wain from good days to confused ones-- like today.

Thank you.

March 19, 2011 - 9:05pm

It's just been one of those days

Sorry all, I KNOW the answer to these questions... it's just I came across some stuff from him. some old emails I had printed out while cleaning out my closet.

It's like falling down on your newly scabbed up knee and re-injuring it all over again.

I feel all raw.

God, I'm sorry to say this-- I wont do it because I'll feel stupid-- but damn, I just want to send him an email and say hi. I SERIOUSLY feel like he is missing me too. Is this in my head??? Yes, it is-- great, I'm f_ing nuts. I am imagining things-- frightening, it's actually frightening. I am sitting here on my computer saying to myself "Gee, Beam, maybe he misses you too, I bet he'd be happy to get an email from you"

Thank GOD I am so proud-- or I might send one off.

Please somebody knock common sense back into me. I think it's the full moon.

I am a Cancer after all ..lol..

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