When did the behavior change?

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Aug 6 - 10PM
NancyM
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Pregnant

In my first relationship, there were all the red flags, but I put them down to men things. But, on becoming pregnant, boy did the mask come off. He knew I would not consider an abortion after three months, and pretty much to the day, the mask came all the way off. Complete psychopath..real deal. I ran when bub was six months old. Tried to reconcile on her first birthday...it lasted three weeks. Actually it was the N in the closet (family) that probably saved me. I always pulled out Daddy when the going got rough and said..if you come after me, then he comes after you. Sometimes having an N in the closet can come in very handy when you are on the run.

Nevergoback

Aug 6 - 5PM
Susan32
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At the get-go

My ex-Psychopath professor tended to scare students (and his colleagues too) with his cold lack of emotions. I, however, thought he was handsome and smart. My ex-P seemed to think that he didn't need his mask all that much when he was at work. He was rude to his colleagues, he bullied me during class-especially after my grandfather died. It's when he sensed that I admired him that he "had" me. He went from telling my classmates that he hated me behind my back&wished I'd drop dead to suddenly putting me on a pedestal. He went from D&D to Idealization... the process in reverse. Sophomore year was the euphoria (for him, and for me) My junior year... I began to ask (in roundabout ways) if he had a girlfriend, and he'd stonewall me. I had expectations. When I finally told him I was in love with him... then the D&D came, relentlessly, and a friend's death made it WORSE. He became increasingly cruel. How dare I have expectations! How dare I-a mere student- ask to be treated with honesty and respect! I was a student, all I had to do was be at his beck and call.
Aug 6 - 12PM
Steph
Steph's picture

Well, both times he ended

Well, both times he ended things with me were following me standing up for myself more and calling him out on shit. I started having expectations. He wooed me and showered me with love and attention, then when he "had" me....the push/pull and devalue and discard began.
Aug 6 - 10AM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Change

I met my N & it was a very fine relationship. He wanted committment (so refreshing after all those dates where it is announced immediately no relationship (unsaid-just sex).) Mine started discussing marriage after 3 1/2 months. There were a few red flags. Odd disconnects. I thought they were "misunderstandings" based upon language differences (English not his first language). We discussed these differences calmly without theater or drama. We were married at 6 months. The first abusive episode was exactly one week before the wedding. I did not understand his verbal abuse but I said I was going home to my apartment. he told me that if I went home, the marriage was off. I stayed. I should have left. It started a pattern of constantly threatening divorce to get what he wanted. The D&D, verbal abuse, psychological abuse started within 3 weeks of living together after the marriage. We did not live together bfore marriage. Actually, I know now, he married me to help him raise the capital to buy a house which was above his means. I refused to buy property or live with a man I was not married to. I have read in Heinz Kohut, one foremost authority on narcissism, that in the beginning the N is on a euphoria. A high. His fantasy of the perfect relationship is operating. Then there is the inevitable disagreement because the N cannot always have what he wants. Then he becomes disillusioned. He perceives slights which may or may not be there. Once this happens -- there is a downward spiral. In the end, the N begins to feel the emotional discomfort, anxiety & tensions which are always present because they are really very vacant emotionally. They cannot be alone because they are nothing inside & that is uncomfortable. But a new love affair engenders a feeling of euphoria--as a child attached to the mother's breast. The child is at peace for a few moments. I see Ns as always seeking the perfect mother in their adut lovers. Sex is the breat to which they are entitled to. And the lover, like the mother, must be at their beck & call. If she is not there immediately & complaint -- temper tantrum. But, these are grown men using adult weapons to inflict pain. They prey on the maternal intstincts of women.
Aug 5 - 11AM
Janet
Janet's picture

Hindsight is 2020, red flags

Hindsight is 2020, red flags REALLY early on. The awful side about a month on. I got letters (he excelled at letter writing) that made me feel so loved and happy. Now, I believe he was just working on his writing style and not at all caring about how I would take the words. Hang in there. Peace. J

Peace. J

Aug 5 - 11AM (Reply to #20)
Bodhi
Bodhi's picture

LOL

Now, I believe he was just working on his writing style and not at all caring about how I would take the words. That made me laugh, but in a hes-a-total-douche kind of way :)
Aug 5 - 11AM
Bodhi
Bodhi's picture

Broken23

How awful... to be in love and pregnant... and then to have him start pulling away. Like the others, there wasn't one defining moment for me... but when the honeymoon period cooled off and I started having expectations for the relationship... that's when my ExN started to back off and begin withdrawing. For him it was all fun & games and he told me point blank that he did not want any obligations. (Of course, this was after we moved in and got engaged!) It doesn't surprise me that things started to change when you got pregnant. This should be such a joyous time for two people, but how can a narc compete with the needs of a child?
Aug 5 - 11AM
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

Same for me - pregnancy brought out the malignant narc!

Yup they can't stand it because the adulation that used to go their way goes into excitement at becoming a mother and building a family together. Thats a big no no in narc world isn't it? And of course my slim figure disappeared and I put on pregnancy weight. He made if perfectly clear how disgusting he found me after that. Real charmers these guys. By the time baby 2 came he was having sex in alley ways with young women from his work, on the due day too! The sad part is that the pretend guy had it all!! Still I have two very lovely daughters and we keep him LC as much as possible. Very sad for the children - I am only tied through them now and try not to wish the years away until I am truly free from this slimeball. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran "That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

Aug 5 - 5PM (Reply to #17)
Aliveagain
Aliveagain's picture

And of course my slim figure

And of course my slim figure disappeared and I put on pregnancy weight. He made if perfectly clear how disgusting he found me after that. Found that extremely interesting. Mine said to me "Are you still running?"..."Good, you need to keep that up, I don't want to see you lose your figure". This is after parading me around like a bracelet at any given opportunity. (Then devaluing me when the opportunity arose).
Aug 5 - 1PM (Reply to #16)
broken23
broken23's picture

Yeah thats a good point

Yeah thats a good point Klarity. I was only 6 weeks in, and i dont even know if the adulation stopped, but i remember when i told him, he just coldly said "get rid of it" "its going to ruin my career" and when i told him I needed to think about things, he started to say he had cheated on me...almost seemed to hurt me on purpose so i would do what he wanted. Im so happy you have your two lovely girls.
Aug 5 - 10AM
naivenomore
naivenomore's picture

So embarrassed to admit this!

I am embarrassed to admit that I lasted 3 1/2 years in a N-relationship when after only 8 weeks he asked me to marry him in November, bought me a lovely ring, and we were planning to marry the following summer. He even went to the trouble (?) of conducting this 'marriage' ceremony that very same night in the moonlight off my dock where we exchanged vows together and he put the engagement ring on my finger, etc. Again, I was swept up in the charm and romantic feelings. I know, I know....what was I thinking to say 'yes' so impulsively, but the charm was absolutely overwhelming and I was so tired of all the dating games with others. The kicker came when in January he suddenly started coming up with these really weird reasons to postpone/call off a marriage: "my mother thinks we should wait awhile", "my pension won't be transferable if I move up to Canada", "I'm impulsive and didn't think it through clearly", etc. etc.. Every once in awhile after I would ask what his plans were and he'd neatly evade the questions altogether. I completely enabled this whole drama lasting for another 3 years! What was I thinking? Obviously not straight!
Aug 5 - 5PM (Reply to #14)
Aliveagain
Aliveagain's picture

Don't beat up on yourself,

Don't beat up on yourself, what woman hasn't fallen for some dickhead at some point? Can you name one? I can't. It's natural to fall in love, its abnormal for someone to exploit that vulnerability. It's him, not you. You're allowed to want for all those amazing things and more, they do exist, you'll find someone else who can give you them, FOR REAL this time.
Aug 5 - 9AM
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

From the start really.

I totally understand about the emails/letters, I got many of them and so much of the day to day seems normal. It was the same with my first marriage though--different styles of Ns but at the end of the day, I couldn't see the forest for the trees. No amount of sweet, caring prose could ever make up for the dark and twisted bits. So if I forget about all the wordswordswords and focus on what happened and how, I got my first red flags from the very first meeting. Just wish I could have seen it then. Let yourself grieve for what you lost, but realize that what you lost wasn't real.
Aug 5 - 1PM (Reply to #11)
broken23
broken23's picture

Youre right actions

Youre right actions contradict words...and no amount of caring prose can make up for the dark twisted bits. Thanks.
Aug 7 - 5PM (Reply to #12)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

So True

ANd when I tried to point out the contradictions, I was NUTS. No consistency. I was always hoping that the 'misunderstanding' woudl be finally resolved & that we could live a clam life. But, no. I perceived a cycle of abuse. And, I think for him that was normal. It's what he wanted. He wanted all that anger, theater, drama. The a few days normal life. And again. This was a proper life for him. He thought this was LOVE.
Aug 5 - 7AM
janine
janine's picture

Signs from square one

There had been signs from day one. Maybe because it started out as a casual sensual affair he let me see more of himself. Maybe I was able to see more having grown up with a borderliner/narcissistic father, though I knew nothing about personality disorders back then. Basically they pull themselves together when reeling in new supply. As this takes enormous energy, they will revert to what they have been since childhood. When this happens, probably depends on what other matters in their chaotic lives require or supply energy. While some acting is certainly calculated to get what they want from you, it's just habit, their "normal" way to cope. I know it is sad to recall the good times. I think, broken23, when he mailed you those loving words, he needed to feel connected to you, so they sounded sincere. It is just that what seemed like love to you, he could not give you. How should he, when there is only emptiness and need? Hoping you will sleep better tonight.
Aug 6 - 1AM (Reply to #9)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Emptiness and need

No wonder my ex-P sounded so hollow, after the D&D, when he told me he was happy. He claimed that his self-pity/anger/unhappiness was just an act to get sympathy because "teaching is hard" (I'm quoting him, but he sounds way too much like the infamous talking Barbie who said "math is hard") I told him that happy people don't go around devastating others, lying, engaging in public humiliation and bullying. He had the nerve (and sad to say, honesty) that he didn't respect students as people. That said it all. Yet he expects students to respect him.
Aug 5 - 7AM
imabloke
imabloke's picture

we are all left wondering...

Why.... what if... etc.. I know what you are going through. I was about 18 mths in, quite a long time i suppose.. and then the disconnection. And slowly but surely as i think she was preparing herself to get off with the boss at some stage. There's is so much i don't know. But I keep telling myself that whatever i would have done differently the outcome would have been the same. DD sooner or later. It's a cycle they go through, it happened in at least 2 big relationships before me and i'll put money on it'l happen to the boss.. sooner or later
Aug 5 - 1PM (Reply to #5)
broken23
broken23's picture

I agree imabloke. I know I

I agree imabloke. I know I truly believe there is nothing I could have done to guarantee a different result, this was bound to happen, thats why I continue to maintain NC no matter what. Although...Betty can you find me that ball..i would so like to have a look:)
Aug 5 - 5PM (Reply to #6)
imabloke
imabloke's picture

We are all having that matrix moment

It's the moment when we can see straight through the crap. Past behaviour predicts future behaviour. And we must hang on to this and know that what we had wasn't real. It wasn't genuine! If it's too good to be true - then generally it isn't! and i want to have a look in Betty's crystal ball first :-)
Aug 8 - 5PM (Reply to #7)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Past behavior predicts future behavior

After what my ex-Psychopath professor put me through, I HOPE the OW is as narcissistic as he is, because there would be mutual understanding. Sounds like I'm playing Cupid here! I hate thinking of him dishing out to her what he did to me. If she's a Narc, then at least she's more resistant to it.... and probably be able to dish it back to him. A match made in Heaven(TM)?
Aug 5 - 7AM (Reply to #4)
betty2020
betty2020's picture

You are so right imabloke.

You are so right imabloke. There is nothing in your power that would have changed a single thing. If you had a crystal ball and could look back on all her previous relationships you would see that pattern. They are so predictable once you know the cycle they are on. We just have to understand them for what they really are. They have a severe personality disorder. It is not changeable and we are not at fault or responsible for it. This was there prior to us. We did nothing to evoke it nor to cause them to turn on us. This is what they do with everyone. Its just their cycle. And yes dear, It will happen to the boss as well. xoxoxo only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Aug 5 - 7AM
betty2020
betty2020's picture

Oh my heart is breaking for

Oh my heart is breaking for you. I know this is so hard to comprehend. They are just cruel evil monsters. In the beginning it was magical. So powerful that i knew i would never love another again. I look back and about 9 months in i saw the first signs of change. It was subtle, but there. A slight disconnection to a situation i was going through at the time. He wasnt mean or cruel at this point just slightly disconnected. This gradually grew in magnitude till it was full blown in the end. I of course was all to blame. The thing to remember is this is a cycle for them. They do this with everyone that is in their lives. They will never stop being who they are honey. This is a permanent condition. Its forever. We have no choice but to move forward and accept this card we were dealt. Funny, my ExN used to tell me after he would treat me so wretchedly horrible, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". I guess that was one thing he was dead on right about. Thinking about you today....xoxoxo only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Aug 5 - 6AM
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Ok it happens

Sorry, even though they start to show themselves, there is not one single defining moment. It would if thats the way it happened because we could say..."hey that's is when it happened' For me it was moving states. It was very defining, but I blamed myself. It was so cut and dried that I so often wish that a person could have offered me the book and I would have got it.

Nevergoback