Why do you like/love me?

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#1 Dec 10 - 1AM

Journey

Why do you like/love me?

I've read in several posts now that many of you were asked this question by your narc.

I personally don't remember seriously asking anyone I've ever been in a relationship with why they loved me, nor do I remember hearing it from any of my other ex's, but I do remember my ex-narc asking me why I loved him the first time I said those three words.

Do you think it is predominately a narc/P question?

Is it also fairly common for non-narcs to ask?

I realize we are already 'hooked' by the time we might say those words and he/she might ask us that question, but is it maybe a red flag that should alert us to pay more attention, even in the midst of a relationship that might still in the honeymoon phase?

I'm curious to hear your observations about this.

Thanks!

#2 Dec 12 - 4PM

safyre99

My ExN asked me that too!

About three months into the relationship my exN wanted to see where we were at and asked me what I liked about him and I asked him what he liked about me. Then he asked me if I loved him! I was taken aback and I did tell him i loved him. I thought at the time it was strange that he would ask that especially since we hadn't been dating that long. And, actually he didn't say he loved me back. A couple of weeks later I told him I loved him again. And, I could tell it kind-of made him uncomfortable, and then shortly thereafter it seemed like he pulled back from the relationship a bit and things seemed to change... it was almost like by me saying I love you to him it freaked him out and he shut down a bit. Has that happened to anyone else? I kept asking myself, why would he ask me if I love him if he didn't want to know the answer or if he wasn't ready to hear the words. We dated for quite a while longer but the relationship definitely changed ... there were other circumstances that happened too, but I keep thinking saying those words changed things.

#3 Dec 12 - 5PM (Reply to #41)

jen79

Mine would ask me

if I want to have his baby, if I could get his baby, and I said ok, then he raged at me saying, this is too much for me, stop, too much pressure. And I was like huh? You asked me to have your baby, I didnt say anything. They are sick weirdos.

#4 Dec 12 - 6PM (Reply to #42)

gettinbetter

I read the baby thing is a

I read the baby thing is a borderline trait

#5 Dec 12 - 6PM (Reply to #43)

jen79

sick of it where did you read that??

I think he is a borderliner, he called me borderline bitch, so you see full blown projection going on. I would be interested where you read that, he asked me that more than once, always either raging I would pressure too much, or saying I would like to trap him. But it was always him asking the question. He also said I love you, and denied it to have said it one second after, saying i never say I love you.

#6 Dec 12 - 5PM (Reply to #37)

Journey

Hi Safyre

I've read elsewhere on this site that often once those words are said to a narc, that is when they know you're hooked and the D & D begins. I wouldn't presume to know for sure, but it sounds like that is what happened in your relationship. I think saying those words almost always changes things, but in a healthy relationship it's usually for the better I would hope. Journey on...

Journey on...

#7 Dec 12 - 6PM (Reply to #39)

safyre99

Hi Journey

Thanks for your comments.. I've read something like that too that once the N knows how much you care they can turn on you, and pretty quickly too. Mine stopped calling me as much, complimenting me, and he started being really critical of me. He would tease me but it would be hurtful. I agree that saying I love you always changes a relationship and that it should strengthen it not tear it down. It's so frustrating. He broke up with me a couple of months ago, and now I feel that with any future relationships I'm not going to ever want to be the one to say I love you first since I'm going to be afraid it will cause them to pull back. I'm going to wait until the guy says it first.

#8 Dec 12 - 6PM (Reply to #40)

gettinbetter

Both times he said to me

Both times he said to me first and then the D & D began

#9 Dec 12 - 5PM (Reply to #38)

Susan32

How NORMAL guys handle it....

This is what I said to the ex-Psych professor after the final D&D, "A NORMAL guy would've said he already had a girlfriend. He wouldn't have lectured me endlessly." A NORMAL guy knows how to say "no" without being cruel. As the Jezebel blog says, when you're rejecting someone who's romantically interested, show regard for their feelings, and don't say anything soul-destroying. Of course, Ns/Ps totally disregard that. I remember asking the ex-P after I declared my love "Why are you angry at me?" He'd say he was offended, disappointed, embarrassed... but I had to remind him that being offended is the same as being angry... consult a thesaurus. It was this inexplicable anger I did NOT get. The normal, garden variety Narcs I've dealt with LIKE admiration. It doesn't send them spewing. Some of the final D&D I think I've deleted because it got so repetitious and BORING. Some of it was humiliating, some of it brought me to tears, and some of it made me as bored as hell. Sometimes when he said "you're not listening to me"--it wasn't projection at all, it was the truth.

#10 Dec 11 - 7PM

apple

I hope not.

Becaue I know I've asked this question. lol I really did want to know why he loved me.

#11 Dec 11 - 8PM (Reply to #35)

Journey

Asking

Hi Cherryblossom, I should clarify that I don't think it's strange for us to ask this question after D & D has begun. At that point a narc's actions rarely if ever, support those 3 words anymore, so it then becomes a very valid question. It is my guess that that was when you wanted/needed to know his answer. Journey on...

Journey on...

#12 Dec 11 - 8PM (Reply to #32)

apple

oh, wait.

I almost forgot... he didn't love me. lololololo's

#13 Dec 11 - 8PM (Reply to #33)

Journey

He didn't love me

We must have posted with the same thoughts at the same time - lol! Journey on...

Journey on...

#14 Dec 11 - 8PM (Reply to #34)

apple

Journey...

Okay, that makes me feel a lot better!!! And you're right on in your time frame. I think I was asking to see if he felt anything about me deeper. Things like your funny or a sweet person. Not just I love sex with you. Ya, Know what I mean?? lol

#15 Dec 11 - 6PM

Susan32

It was always "you don't take me seriously"

The ex-Psych professor was paranoid about people mocking him behind his back. He'd constantly accuse me of not taking him seriously. During the final D&D, when I questioned him he'd say "you're not taking me seriously." When I was smiling and cheerful in his presence (and being giggly, as infatuated girls are wont to do), he'd tell me to be "MORE serious." My friends hated the fact that he was the dark cloud in the room. I'd be happy with them... then he made his entrance and all the joy was drained out. During the final D&D, he asked me "why do you like me?" I listed a bunch of positive qualities, then he said that it was due to my low self-esteem I was projecting them onto him. He also said to keep my distance. Both of the above things basically come from Dealing with NPD websites. Um... that was strange. Very bizarre. It's like he had read Sam Vaknin's "Malignant Self-Love" and was parroting it back to me. He'd constantly tell me that I didn't REALLY like him because of my minor criticisms. But if I worshipped the ground he walked on, it was "slavish." When I declared my love to him my senior year... I had never seen such rage before in anyone. As one of my friends said, when a girl declares her love to a guy, even if he's not interested, his NORMAL response isn't flying into a rage. When I was dating my junior year, he said "You don't want to be stuck with me for the rest of your life." Considering how much he quoted the diaries of Sofia Tolstoy (her diaries are heartbreaking&triggering for those of who have dealt with NPD, she even compared herself to an object in her first diary entry right after she got married)... yeah, I dodged a bullet. Sofia went from being a happy young woman who believed in love, to someone who was heartbroken, bitter, angry, attempted suicide several times, and was even apologizing to Leo at his grave. Leo Tolstoy would humiliate her in front of other people. So when he married the OW instead of me... yes, it was a blow to the gut because rejection isn't fun... but the more I read of the Leo&Sofia Tolstoy marriage, the more grateful I am....

#16 Dec 11 - 6PM (Reply to #29)

Journey

Grateful

Yes, grateful I would be too in your position. Your ex-Psych professor sounds completely psycho and I think you are really fortunate that you and he did not take the relationship into the bedroom. Journey on...

Journey on...

#17 Dec 11 - 7PM (Reply to #30)

Susan32

Some reflections on Cliff's Notes and Hallmark cards

Cliff's Notes says in the Leo Tolstoy bio "Sofia's increasing hysteria made Tolstoy's latter years a torment." She was a victim of an NPD spouse. One terrible fact that isn't mentioned much is that Leo raped Sofia on their wedding night. She had spent her wedding day, and the subsequent honeymoon, in tears. She calls herself a toy in her first diary entry. Later on, she calls herself a machine, a piece of furniture. She and Leo had such a messed-up marriage from the beginning that they both read each other's diaries daily instead of, confiding to each other face-to-face. Leo let his teeth rot... and the ex-Psych professor's teeth were incredibly decayed for a 32 year old (that was 14 years ago) "You are really fortunate you and he did not take the relationship into the bedroom"-I'll NEVER regret that decision. I was never THAT comfortable around him. He would've had put on an Oscar-worthy act. I'd stiffen in his presence;I was never relaxed around him. I could never be at ease with him. He had major issues with physical affection. I only hugged him once... at graduation.... and the look in his eyes was more like that of a lone coyote right before it becomes a mountain lion's lunch. I've never seen such terror in anyone's eyes. He much preferred incredibly stiff handshakes which were more like grips, and he had problems letting go. There should be Hallmark cards for "Thanks for not having sex with me" and "Thanks for not marrying me." With birds, rainbows, clouds, flowers...

#18 Dec 11 - 3PM

gettinbetter

Oh how I wish he would ask

Oh how I wish he would ask again because I would say: I DON'T AND NOBODY ELSE DOES EITHER!

#19 Dec 11 - 1PM

helldweller

Do you love me

Oh! There was also one time about two months into the relationship when he was over one night and we were sitting, having drinks in my living room, and he just started saying over and over, "You don't love me." He said it about a hundred times, no lie, before I finally, aftr an hour, screamed, "Ok! I don't love you! Whatever you say! Just stop!" I was crying and crying, and he got up and left. There was absolutely nothing wrong: no fight, no cross words, no disagreement in any way, shape or form. It was the most bizarre thing I'd every experienced with anyone. I followed him home in my nightie in the freezing cold, begging him to tell me what was going on, crying and crying, and he slammed the door in my face, refused to answer the bell, refused to answer my calls. The next day it was like it never happened.

#20 Dec 11 - 2PM (Reply to #26)

Journey

That is messed up!

Wow Helldweller, I read your story last night and he sounds so crazy. I worry about the foster child. Seriously. Journey on...

Journey on...

#21 Dec 11 - 1PM

helldweller

Why do you love me

Mine didn't ask me that, but he asked me IF I loved him after about three days that we were together. I said, "I guess. Well, sure, I guess." I had known him for about a year before that, and certainly I felt I DID love him already, but it was so odd to be asked that by a guy I just started seeing, and then he clarified that he "needed to know" because the other women in his life before didn't love him and he was afraid to give his heart again. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

#22 Dec 11 - 7AM

jen79

OMG

They asked you that too? He asked me that again and again. Weird, seems they dont love themselves, so thats why they cannot understand how someone else loves them, they have to ask again, and of course cause they define everyone and themselves through skills and traits, so they want to hear the parts they think they are loved for. Its a weird question, it shows how much they are caught up in the concept of conditional love. What they really ask is, tell me the conditions of your love. Thats how they think too, conditional love.

#23 Dec 11 - 2PM (Reply to #23)

Journey

Weird question

I agree! Mine responded the first time to me telling him I loved him with a 'noooooo, you can't love me, why would you love me"? and then of course, I proceeded to tell him all the wonderful things about him and how being with him made me feel. Come to think of it, the first D & D happened around that time. Mine also asked me approx one year into the relationship why I had thought he was falling in love with me during the honeymoon phase. I wonder now how my answers might have only been helping educate him on the tactics that worked with me so he could get even better at it. Journey on...

Journey on...

#24 Dec 11 - 7AM

Scotchy71

Yep

The day I was flying home, he asked me how I knew I loved him, I told him it was because I couldn't imagine my life without him now and when I asked him how he knew he loved me, he said, "Because I want to take care of you".....hmmmmm didn't do that very well..he perhaps should have added...as well as the other women I have hanging on my every word....:)

#25 Dec 10 - 9PM

My ex asked me all the

My ex asked me all the time.. I can only assume it is from insecurities, or simply wanting to boost his ego. He would always say, why do you love me? I'm not that great. And every time I would go into detail of how amazing he is.. Or when I would say I love you.. he would say, "I don't know why." and que the compliments. He loved hearing about himself.

#26 Dec 11 - 2PM (Reply to #20)

Journey

Boost to the ego

Exactly what I think. Mine also said he wasn't that great in such a way that I would want to reassure him that I thought he was. Journey on...

Journey on...

#27 Dec 10 - 8PM

Ava

Journey :)

My exN asked that question several times throughout the relationship. He'd either ask it flat out or make statements that would prompt me to tell him why I loved him. I think it is a red flag - not necessarily specific to narcs on one level, but definitely a red flag & the frequency is perhaps a narc/P flag. I've had a couple of relationships / friendships with non-narcs who've asked something similar, but maybe once in all the years I've known that particular person. My exN asked it a lot. I think on one level it is a sign of insecurity / low self-worth or esteem & a need for external reassurance. I think many non-PD people can feel like this at one point or another, but its usually an isolated thing to get this low & desperately feel the need for someone else to boost them up / remind them of their good points. It is a sign of unhealthy esteem / self-worth & over reliance on others but not necessarily always PD I think. This was how I originally interpreted it when the exN asked me - I thought it was a sign of someone who'd suffered a lot & was so low on themselves at the time but that with some reassurance, help & inner strength, he would start to feel better about himself. So I would reassure him. I even wrote him a damn list once. But it never got any better - in truth it almost got worse, he'd keep asking me on more & more occasions or make numerous remarks like "I don't know why you love me" or "I don't know why you want to be around me, I have nothing to offer." It sometimes seemed like the more I reassured the more he wanted reassurance. And I do think part of it with him was actually genuine lack of true self-esteem. And I've read that that is an ironic attribute of NPD. At the same time I think there is another component to it with Ns - certainly my exN - in that it is part of the manipulation. Asking that question or showing such self-doubt often prompts some of us to make more of an effort to show this person that we love them, that we think they are lovable. And then effectively the narc gets more supply. And I think the question & our answers also helps the narc to work out what we like in them - i.e. so they can emphasise those attributes & suck us in deeper. Ava xx

Ava

#28 Dec 11 - 3PM (Reply to #13)

Journey

Right on the money

Ava, you brought up many points I think are right on the money. When 'normal' people ask it, it is usually (at least in my experience) more of a kind of joking or teasing kind of way, but they don't really not understand why we love them. I think Narcs ask because they really don't understand why we love them because they know who they really are. I also think it is part of the manipulation. I also think it gives them a better idea of the attributes that got them supply, so they can hone their predator skills for the next time they go hunting. Ava, I'm sorry for your experience and I don't mean to make light of it, but writing a list - OMG! - that's nuts that you felt you had to do that to ease his insecurities. Journey on...

Journey on...

#29 Dec 11 - 7PM (Reply to #14)

Ava

Journey - actually that's a damn good point

that when "normal" people ask that question it really is the case that they don't actually not understand how or why we could love them. But narcs really truly don't get it.... hmmm, very, very good point. Re. manipulation, I strongly feel [now anyway!] that my exN was in part testing in a way to find out what my soft spots were, so to speak. And yes - that f***ing list! Please do make light of it [!] - in honesty I am incredibly grateful that you have told me how nuts you think it is! There was actually two lists that I remember being a special preparation [ha!] - one was a list of attributes with a pro side that I created & then he listed a bunch of cons & I then put a more positive spin on them. And then there was the f***ing Wallet Sized Edition - a short summary because he wanted to carry something that would remind him all the time. I realised it was a little [!] extreme at the time but he came across as such a sad, wounded victim who had been so traumatised in his life that he had no sense of self-worth & just needed a loving & helping hand back on track. And I've spent my whole life with an older sister who is the same in that regard; a selfish, self-centred manipulator but who'd come to me every week or so, upset & "hating" herself - everyone always noted how she actually seemed to have such low self-esteem - & it was my "job" for as long as I can remember to help build her confidence. So at the time, the narc need for constant reassurance in varied [and often excessive] forms was something I'd learnt was "normal" in close, loving relationships - and my responsibility to help amend. I'm trying hard to change my concept of "normal" behaviour & while I've learnt so much this past year & have a great amount of intellectual knowledge, actually fully adsorbing & adopting it is taking some. It is truly wonderful for me to hear you say how nuts you think it actually was! Thank you so much!! :) Ava xx

Ava

#30 Dec 11 - 8PM (Reply to #15)

Journey

Let me say first

First, let me clarify that I don't think you were 'nuts' for going along with it or trying to help him through his difficulties - that is very caring of you. It does sound like he was testing your soft spots, likely to use against you later and if not you, then with the knowledge you gave him, a stronger list of traits to exhibit for his next 'victim'. "There was actually two lists that I remember being a special preparation [ha!] - one was a list of attributes with a pro side that I created & then he listed a bunch of cons & I then put a more positive spin on them." - Look how far you would go to try to be good to him, to care and help - that just tells me you are a wonderful person! And then there was the f***ing Wallet Sized Edition - a short summary because he wanted to carry something that would remind him all the time. - This made me laugh out loud at its absurdity (sorry if that's insensitive), - and that just tells me how pathetic he might be and if it wasn't all just a game to him, how truly disturbed. It's understandable from your experience with your sister why your initial response would be to try to help and to misjudge normalcy. I do think it is the extremity of it that is our first clue it's not. A lot of people would like a handy wallet sized list of our best attributes written by someone we love to refer to any time we have a bad day. It would make me feel better I'm sure. But I would be too embarrassed to actually ask my partner to write it because I would think about how unstable that would make me appear to my partner and to myself. And if that was the case I'd need a lot more than a list to feel better about myself. Journey on...

Journey on...

#31 Dec 11 - 9PM (Reply to #16)

Ava

Journey - thank you for your amazing words

I know you weren't saying I was nuts :) I have had some such reactions over the years from other people but I know you truly understand the context of these things. And honestly, I don't find your laughter insensitive at all. I'm actually grinning myself now! Honestly, I'm not entirely sure how to explain it, but what you've written has provided me with such relief & its like you've hit on one of the nuggets of "brainwashing" [?] within me, pulled it out & you're really making me think about it in a different light. One of the the huge things for me in the relationship with exN & I think the strongest tie that held me to him, was my feeling of responsibility & guilt. He was so clingy & so emotionally needy - I had to constantly reassure him of everything. That I found him attractive, that the sex was good, that he had things to offer, that he wasn't a giant failure, that I wasn't going to leave him....so on. And it wasn't just words but actions - I had to constantly prove these things. And to disprove his doubts or anything he interpreted as a sign that I was going to leave him or didn't love him. And the more I'm thinking about it now, the more its all piling up in my memory. Another [absurd!] example - he would sometimes get upset & fearful if I rolled over in bed while falling asleep; i.e. turned over so I was no longer facing him & my back was to him. There would be no context of negativity - i.e we hadn't argued, i'd been cuddling him for a while etc - it would just be a case of me turning onto my other side to get comfortable. And he'd see that as a rejection. I had to soothe him a few times over that & explain that it really was just me rolling over - that it meant nothing. I lived with this man for 5 years & so many of these things crept up gradually that my feelings of responsibility & guilt just increased gradually in tandem. I would get exhausted at the level of care & attention but if I wasn't able to provide it he'd panic, push & cry like a neglected child. And I began feeling like a neglectful partner, that my inability to provide what he needed meant that I wasn't a good person, wasn't caring enough, I wasn't being kind enough & I had to try harder. Big fat slippery slope. I'm going on another rant again, I'm sorry! I'm really just trying to explain how much your words have meant to me. To hear you say specifically that his behaviour in this was absurd, that it shows how disturbed he was [is] & to remind me that it just wasn't normal, that it simply was extreme.... is absolutely beautiful to me. Not just because it validates me or makes me feel better - you've just added a wonderful piece to my new attempts of re-defining normalcy. And your comments that many people would like a handy wallet sized list but would be too embarrassed to actually request it, and would realise that it does appear & show unstable nature - that's really hit home with me. I read it & just though That is SO true! It is so true! Journey, I can't put into words how much you've just helped me :) Ava xx

Ava

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