Where My Thoughts are Today on Focusing on Myself

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#1 Nov 18 - 3PM

Anonymous (not verified)

Where My Thoughts are Today on Focusing on Myself

“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

Carl Gustav Jung quotes

Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers”

Voltaire quotes

“If you judge people, you have no time to love them.”

Mother Teresa of Calcutta quotes

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

Paulo Coelho quotes

It is just as cowardly to judge an absent person as it is wicked to strike a defenseless one. Only the ignorant and narrow-minded gossip, for they speak of persons instead of things.”

Lawrence G. Lovasik quotes

“Doubt yourself and you doubt everything you see. Judge yourself and you see judges everywhere. But if you listen to the sound of your own voice, you can rise above doubt and judgment. And you can see forever.”

Nancy Lopez quotes

“Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.”

Bob Packwood quotes

It takes a good deal of character to judge a person by his future instead of his past”

“Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.”

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Matthew 7:5

#2 Nov 18 - 6PM

almostlydia

For as long as I can

For as long as I can remember I have understood the Mother Teresa one: “We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.” I came to this conclusion a long time ago but never put it into words as well as this. I would guess there is a reason that 'Thou Shalt Not Judge' is on the same list as 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. almostlydia

almostlydia

#3 Nov 18 - 7PM (Reply to #37)

michele115 (not verified)

Almostlydia

That's deep and what came to my mind when I read it... The analogy between though shall not judge vs. thou shall not kill against... Which abuse is worse the physical or the emotional... They're kinda equal huh... It's really hard not to be a "reactor" but one of the things I want to focus on and I think it may be one of my challenges is learning temperance. This experience has left me in such a state...but it is time to do a gut renovation...I think I've been guilty without even realizing it at times... It gives me something to focus on. That or I'll have to become a mute!...LMAO

#4 Nov 18 - 11PM (Reply to #38)

almostlydia

michele115

It is one thing to have an impression or an opinion and quite another to judge. Mother Teresa is absolutely correct in this and when you understand it, suddenly it becomes easier to just accept. My sister is one that finds it necessary to point out and ridicule every 'different' person within view. I would guess that it makes her feel somehow less inadequate or somehow superior to someone out there. It disgust me to no end and I have found it very easy to let her know how little it makes her. Having this N experience, I think we are all extremely intuned to making necessary 'impressions' as to those that may harm us. I don't see this as judging but just listening to our very hyped up instincts and avoiding anything toxic that may cause damage. We are hypersensitive and why wouldn't we be? We neglected our instincts before and got burned in the worst way possible. It is safer to over react than to ever find ourselves in this place again. I am sure there is some balance here we have to find, but for now, better to overreact and be safe than to neglect and be so damaged again. almostlydia

almostlydia

#5 Nov 18 - 11PM (Reply to #39)

michele115 (not verified)

Absolutely...Almostlydia or is it Totallylydia?

I am so hypersensitive now, my mother opens her mouth to breathe and I am down her throat!...LOL

#6 Nov 18 - 11PM (Reply to #40)

almostlydia

I meant to add one thing

I meant to add one thing about the physical versus emotional abuse. I heard this just recently but I think I have know it for a while. Physically abused women are most often emotionally abused to begin with and they say they would much rather endure physical abuse over emotional abuse. Bruises heal but the emotional stuff last forever. I was only physically abused in the end, in minimal ways, big bruises from being dragged across a room, jammed fingers from fighting over my purse and cell phone, but it was the icing on the cake of total demise. almostlydia

almostlydia

#7 Nov 18 - 4PM

Briseis

I judge people all the time.

I judge people all the time. I know I am not alone. I just don't "believe" my judgments are gospel truth that the rest of humanity should bow down before them. They are my opinions. I am often wrong, but rarely in doubt :) Judging isn't the problem. It's expecting that your judgment be CANNONIZED that's the problem. This is a big learning thing for me. If someone judges me, to my face, and it hurts (I react with feeling pain, anger, defensiveness), I need to take a long hard LOOK at myself. I didn't react for NOTHING. I reacted over SOMETHING, and because I DID react, rather than simply agree or disagree, then I have been TRIGGERED and need to explore that. Sometimes, reaction is about me KNOWING what the judger said is "true", or partly true, and I don't want to hear it, thank you. I don't want to KNOW it. Sometimes, the reaction is because I have just been fucked over by someone who I thought I was safe with, and I'm having to confront the fact that I was WRONG about this person, and then all the pain of that. Sometimes the judgment just reminds me of something unrelated to the subject matter at hand, and my reaction is inappropriate based upon the context. No matter WHAT, my reaction is MINE. It is mine to deal with. Not anyone else's. No one else's responsibility. I do not need to punish some jerkoff for judging me, or even "reward" them for being right. A judgment is an OFFERING. Nothing more. And I can accept it, or not, after I process it. I don't like that feeling of being all off balance, feeling victimized and confused . . . the feelings that come along with being triggered. It's feeling out of control, and I'd like less of that in my life. So for me, I put myself in a position of power when it comes to judging. I am the final judge, when it comes to who I am, what I "meant", what I really think, and if it's good or bad or neutral. And my judgments of others . . . I don't hold onto them too tightly. I might be WAY off. But for now, with the information I have, well, it seems true, and that's what I'll stand by, until there is evidence to the contrary. Then I'll gladly judge differently :) I want to know the truth, more than I want to be "right". I can, and will, still be hurt by abusive judgments, mainly because I USED to have more trust and respect for the person who just ripped me a new one. I let them get close to me and then they take a shit in my head. Fuck them. If within that abusive judgment there is TRUTH, well I can't argue with that either. I can't argue with a FACT. That's just dumb lol!! Lots of food for thought there Michelle, thank you :)

#8 Nov 18 - 4PM (Reply to #13)

michele115 (not verified)

Brie...

Just mulling over the complexities of life and the conundrum of Karma...it does not only travel in one direction... In order to bring about our highest potential... We also need to be aware of ourselves, or perhaps I am judging - assuming that others are not... I must become aware of MYself... I may hate that the Narc calls me bi-polar and told all his friends I'm a nut - but maybe that's his truth hey? Equally, I sit here and call him a Narc, and tell all my friends He's a narc...and that's my truth... It's the constant search for truth...never ending, subjective AND equally enlightening... Must be the moon...

#9 Nov 18 - 7PM (Reply to #17)

Briseis

Michelle

That's all we have, is "our truth". And there is a little gizmo inside of us that "rings true" when we hear "truth". It resonates, maybe it's another "gut" thing? All the while, knowing that the WHOLE truth will probably elude us. But getting as much of the truth as our human limitations will allow . . . that's good enough. The word "judge" doesn't just mean to "condemn". The word "judge" to me means to DECIDE. To conclude. To draw together a bunch of information and put it together. When I "judge", what I judge changes constantly as I understand better. I fear that being overly relative is dangerous, especially for us empathic types, who are not quick to "condemn" when it is necessary to do so. My conclusion is that I needed to "judge" MORE, not less. I realize word semantics can be confusing, so I wanted to clarify what I mean when I say "I judge".

#10 Nov 18 - 8PM (Reply to #19)

michele115 (not verified)

Brie...

And this is strictly for you and I as I don't want to trigger anyone. At this moment I feel in a safe place, others are still sensitive so if you are...BUMP NOW... Brie, I read somwhere and its the same with this friggin Fibro...there is no goshdarn consensus on Narcissism. We want to call it a PD - these fuckers do a number on us...okay it fucking hurts. BUT...I've read that as a result of trauma and in some cases, I've read that some part of their brain is the size of a chicken nugget - I'm being tongue in cheek here but you get my drift...it hurt...it hurts...it will hurt. But the guy has a defect. I am sure, if he had a choice, he wouldn't have it. I don't know anyone who would say, well, when I get older, I want to be one fucked up son of a bitch! I want to be miserable and cause as much misery to others as I can. So, in my pain, it is time for me to maintain empathy from a distance. I am hurt, he cannot enter my realm anymore because I have to protect myself - but I've had my opportunity to rant and rave - and I know well enough that tomorrow, I might be slammed right back at that pity party victim, depleted, shell less place I was...but in my attempt to move forward - for me, I think that focusing on not judging is important. Judge like you said, put the pieces together and conclude - he's a danger to me - yes...that is valid. He's a danger to ME - and probably any other person - but the subject her is ME. MYself. And so in putting the focus on myself, it is important for me to be aware of my judgement of others. Illness is illness - we don't hold mentally ill people accountable for a lot of things, these dudes at the end of the day are mentally ill. I don't get mad at a cancer patient for not being able to give me their all...what's the difference? Illness is illness.... Thoughts?

#11 Nov 18 - 11PM (Reply to #35)

gettinbetter

I have maintained this all

I have maintained this all along though it was not met favorably Who ya gonna stay angry and bitter at a man who has a disorder that doesn allow him to have empathy? Im sure given the choice that would rather be normal. I think they know something is wrong with them they just have no capacity for introspection to figure out why they do what they do. They are aware they are doing wrong they just have no freakin internal moral compass. I feel like mine is going straight to hell and it bothers me. It shouldnt but it does. He didnt chose this for himself. He is a product of poor parental skills and possibly even genetically prone to it. He didnt choose that for himself. It just is. Unfortunately we are the unlimate victims of his disorder not so much him. Hell he doesnt feel anything. His illness manifests in us. I dont hate him per se. I hate his disorder. I hate who made him that way because someone created the monster.

#12 Nov 18 - 10PM (Reply to #29)

Ava

michelle - thoughts on illness & empathy

Sorry I've jumped in on your comment for Briseis but this is something I've been mulling over quite a bit recently. I've read all sorts of things re. whether NPD is a disorder or an illness & while you're right, there is no consensus on most points, there are many arguments that narcs are capable of knowing what they are doing & making choices to act in certain ways. I personally believe there are strong compulsions [if that's the right word?] to act they way they do, but at the end of the day they are not without choice re. how they act [I agree though that they didn't chose to become narcs]. And I'm certain mine at least knew right from wrong - he wouldn't have hidden all the atrocious things he did from me, I think, if he didn't know the difference. BUT....BUT - all that paragraph was my intro! MY main point is this: for me, regardless of just how ill they are, how aware etc, I think the MOST important thing is how WE feel. My personal opinion is that carrying anger, hatred, desire for revenge etc., is unhealthy to US. Whether they deserve it or not. For myself, I am personally hoping to reach a point where I no longer hold anger, bitterness, etc towards him, because I simply just don't want to carry that around in my heart. One quote I came across a while ago & have held onto is this "Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die." [Malachy McCourt]. I absolutely applaud your position & deeply admire your ability to be able to start drawing away from spending your own valuable time & energy judging your exN. One of my great hopes is that I'll truly get to that point sometime. Ava xxo

Ava

#13 Nov 19 - 12PM (Reply to #33)

ShaynasMommy

you have a point, Ava

about why a Narc would bother to hide something if he didn't believe it was wrong. My theory is that would be the difference between a Narc and a Psychopath. I know, there's a fine line sometimes, but maybe the difference is that a Narc knows its wrong, but lies, cheats, and steals in order to "survive" (aka get supply, 'cause its more important than food or air to them)....and a psycho just doesn't care if its wrong or right. One has no moral compass, and the other has no conscience. But you are right that the point is to try to get to a place where you no longer lust for revenge and closure. Ultimately, Indifference is the key goal and a significant indication that you are healed

#14 Nov 22 - 6PM (Reply to #34)

Ava

I like your theory ShaynasMommy, sounds pretty bang on to me

My exN certainly knew in some part of his head that the lying, cheating, betraying etc. he did was wrong, there were a bunch of times, often when he'd had several beers in him, where he broke down sobbing over how much he'd hurt people & begging me to tell him "what was wrong with him." I think some of those times were show - sometimes I even felt that during the "performances" but other times were so raw & I could see there was a reality to it. I even found among his papers when I was cleaning out his stuff a few things he'd wrote to himself on the topic But the majority of the time he was able to bury those feelings or simply find a way to excuse it all, justify it. And what you've said re. in order to "survive" - I think that's such a good point. Before the break up with him & before learning about NPD it used to confound me - if he knows its wrong, why doesn't he just stop? It was like he had a compulsion, some real driving need to do these things. And I never understood it until I started learning about the concept of supply & that often narcs really do see supply as life & death issues - survival issues. You've nailed it & given me another spurt of clarity! Thank you :) And so true, so true that indifference is the key goal - that's what I'm realising so much recently. I don't want to hate him, feel bitter about the whole thing or just put it all in a box of Bad Times I Don't Want To Remember....and I think it'd all come back to haunt me sometime anyway. That's sort of how I'm seeing my obsession over this over the past year - I'm processing the hell out of the experience, beating it all to death so I can reach that point of indifference!! Fingers crossed!! :) Ava xx

Ava

#15 Nov 18 - 10PM (Reply to #30)

michele115 (not verified)

Ava-Thank you...

But don't applaud me yet, it's only day one...LOL In my case, he has addiction issues as well, and I so much have a whole perception of that. I've been judgemental, I've spewed some venom about that too - but what I see cause I troll Craigslist just to reinforce that dysfunction exists and every so often you hear some victim go off on a tirade and at the end, they post in all caps: DIE YOU JUNKIE or some other vile tirade...it's a form of entertainment for me..LMAO I am not an addict - at least in terms of chemicals. I have never been one, never walked those shoes. I know there was a lot of trauma he had to deal with, I know he is an addict, well not using but a dry one...I know he needs help - don't know if he can be helped - I know he's dangerous to me. BUT, I also know and this is where I want to cry and damn I am - that he too was powerless over his childhood - what happened to his brain as a result of it and if its true that over time the biology of the brain changes with trauma and abuse that in some becomes narcissim, changes we see to the brain with PTSD, the deep pain he must have felt how he self medicated and turned to drugs - the brainwashing he suffered as he trudged along in NA meetings looking for help just trying to cling to life, to save himself the best way he knew how...but yet they could never address those other issues, just get folks off of chemicals, and never urge the addicts to then seek help but instead follow the cult...because basically it's peer leadership... The fact that all he has to cling to life is slogans he's heard holding on to a faith that he doesn't even know or understand - that he doesn't even understand himself and how he fits in with the world - the void he feels, the immense insecurity...all those things that create what must be to me an overwhelming fear...and as animals instinctively self preservation at all costs kicks in. I loved him. I loved him with all my heart and soul...Godamit - I loved him more than I've loved any man and in the end, it was an illusion because he couldn't love me. But somehow, somewhere at different times when things were crazy, I felt him somehow trying to reach me to tell me he's defective...he said "I'm an addict" even though he wasn't using it's almost as if there was this glass window or wall separating us...bulletproof, we could not connect, could no longer touch, the wall came up and I could no longer get to what I thought was his heart, and we were BOTH screaming but could not hear eachother. Equally enraged, equally mad, equally insane. He drove me there by default - he triggered a PTSD I had not known existed. I was in a depression for months before all shit broke loose. His inability to love, to feel to have empathy caused him to miss that - or shall I say, made him unsympathetic, made him resent me...it hurt...it hurt like hell because I had NO ONE and I have other illnesses anyway and I still have NO ONE but we have to keep living. I have to have empathy for him - because I know what it feels like for people not to have empathy for things they cannot understand. I walk those shoes everyday when someone sees a young woman who appears too lazy to work. I can't feel his demons, and he can't feel mine. My situation may be a little different. I'm not saying have sympathy for people who disregard your feelings, have never ending empathy - what he did was wrong but if he's in such a state he can't help himself - nor can I. I have to release him to a higher power and in doing so, I can be released. I cannot judge...

#16 Nov 22 - 6PM (Reply to #32)

Ava

Michele - on but I am applauding you :)

I don’t care if you say its only day one or minute one :) In my opinion, what you have posted, even just on this single thread, shows what a strong, amazing, compassionate woman who is not afraid to be true to herself. Although I know it is much the nature of the disorder, your exN so foolishly wasted his chance in life to have someone who absolutely, unconditionally loved & cared for him. But I am glad he is no longer sucking you dry & driving you over the edge – now there are a whole bunch of other people in the world who can have the chance to be lucky enough to know you & be a part of your world. Having the addiction issues as well adds a whole extra kettle of fish to the situation….dealing with, living with, being in love with, addicts who aren’t narcs is hard, traumatic & heart-breaking enough in & of itself. And while you say you’ve been judgemental about that, you were clearly never so judgemental as to give up loving or caring for him because of it. And to be able to step back and truly try to empathise with the pain of an addict & their addiction [take away the narc aspect for a moment], acknowledging that while you’ve not walked those shoes you see the trauma that he has had to deal with, and to be able to feel such sorrow for the pain he endured when he was younger that it actually brings you to tears – that shows such a gorgeous heart & such fundamental strength of character. I am tempted to say that I feel there may be a possibility that part of the reason your exN resented you so much is because he saw all these qualities in you. You had all the strength, compassion and character that he didn’t & that he wanted to have but could never have. And even after everything the fact that you still love him to me just shows what true & deep love you are capable of; the your love for him was real & I think its great that you can still honour that feeling within you. I tried for a long time to “make” myself stop loving my exN [at a distance – had no real contact with him after], I thought it’d be easier to get over him, to find a way to get through the enormous pain & shock & deal with what was happening. Didn’t work! Actually made me agonise more because I couldn’t stop loving him entirely & I spent a while beating myself up for it [saying I was stupid or weak or a giant loser for still loving that guy]. But I’m gradually coming to accept it – I loved him, unconditionally, and that just doesn’t go away – and the times when I do just accept it & don’t chastise myself for it, I actually feel really good :) Your final sentence re. releasing him to a higher power so that you can be released – that is so beautifully put & so inspiring. So inspiring :) Ava xx

Ava

#17 Nov 18 - 11PM (Reply to #31)

michele115 (not verified)

PS...

I stopped crying...but think I shall go to Craigslist for a minute of comic relief...LOL

#18 Nov 18 - 8PM (Reply to #24)

Susan32

Illness is illness

What's the bittersweet of the 4 years with the ex-Psych professor is that I have A LOT more compassion and patience with those who have mental illnesses. A year after the D&D, I had a severely autistic student. I didn't get angry at him;I knew he had an illness that inhibited his ability to relate to others. The fact he constantly talked about dinosaurs and had a hard time with eye contact didn't make me furious. It wasn't my fault;it wasn't his, either. I work in a nursing home. There was a female resident complaining that people didn't know her name, didn't know her. The LVNs were busy talking at their station and she felt ignored. I reassured her that she was OK, I knew her name. I couldn't fume at her for being forgetful or crazy. I once worked at a nursing home where one of the CNAs would berate the patients, telling them they were crazy and stupid. He'd basically tell them they were delusional. That's NOT helpful for an Alzheimer's sufferer. They're already confused. "It is time to maintain empathy from a distance"- What's bizarre is that during the final D&D, the ex-P would constantly be telling me to keep my distance, to keep a "formal" distance, a "proper" distance. It would've been hard to keep my distance if I had stayed in New Mexico. But I guess moving out of town without telling anyone was definitely solidifying the distance. I had to leave the state for my own safety&sanity.

#19 Nov 18 - 9PM (Reply to #25)

michele115 (not verified)

Susan

I see a few things resonate with you here. I have a question...in your post you say I would have been hard to keep your distance if you stayed in NM. Why is that?

#20 Nov 18 - 9PM (Reply to #26)

Susan32

He would've been in the neighborhood...

I probably would've hung out at my alma mater's campus. I think my resolve would've been weaker. There would've been the likelihood of running into him... LOL... He would've been a needless temptation. Why put a picnic table under the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil when you don't have to? I had to simply LEAVE. After I was sabotaged in my teacher education program as a "danger to children" (thank goodness for that tutoring job in Oregon!), I think my prospects dried up. I would've been drained&desperate. I didn't need that. I've been able to keep NC with people from the Narc workplace (yes, still in the same town), because I lacked the depth of emotional involvement I had with the ex-P. I didn't fall in love with the ex-N boss... he was out of the closet and had a boyfriend! I just think being in the same town, all those feelings being stirred up... it would've been a challenge.

#21 Nov 18 - 11PM (Reply to #27)

michele115 (not verified)

Susan

It seems that early on your instinct for self preservation in the form of getting out of Dodge was a very wise move. But it has been such a long time since that experience and yet it seems you still have so much to vent about it. I'm not sure if I am interpreting this correctly but if I am, why do you think that after all this time, and given that it wasn't a relationship so to speak but a situation where it appears you seem to feel you were "exploited" you still talk about it? I am not sure if I am coming across clearly, I'm not trying to belittle you...I was a teacher and got chewed up and spit out by the DOE, I know how that can be traumatizing and I had dreams for four years I was cursing out the Principal! But if I am correct, this goes back to about ten years ago? Where do you stand now on your feelings with this - are they resolved or is there still pain or resentment or what?

#22 Nov 19 - 9AM (Reply to #28)

Susan32

The trauma

I think I was traumatized because the ex-P was an authority figure, and my feelings were ruthlessly exploited. This was a teacher who'd fantasize about me committing suicide, or telling his male disciples how he wished I'd drop dead. As one of my friends put it "It's like being molested by your beloved uncle." I look at the men who had been abused by priests when they were young... their abuse was sexual, not just emotional-- but I can see where their pain&shame comes from. "It wasn't a relationship so to speak"-On paper, it was a teacher/student relationship, with emotional abuse, gaslighting, and crazy-making thrown in. One of the RED FLAGS early on was the ex-Psychopath professor saying he was "struggling with his narcissism." I DID consider the ex-P my friend... and he exploited that friendship. Right after my pastor friend died, the ex-P flaunted his girlfriend who had moved from LA to New Mexico. Like any N/P, he enjoyed kicking me when I was down. He was my teacher... he was in a position of respect. I was treated with resentment, cruelty and contempt simply because I was HUMAN. When it comes to my feelings, I was told at the time to NOT be angry. I was basically rushed through the grieving process. It's like being in a car crash and being expected to come to work the next day, despite bleeding profusely and having a broken leg. I had gotten lulled into the feeling that perhaps the ex-P would feel remorse for what he had done by this time... but then I studied up on NPD. Yeah, just when I almost called him after a decade... I come here and got educated. "You feel you were 'exploited'"-While the relationship NEVER got sexual or romantic (thank God!),it was still emotional exploitation. I've been studying up on emotional rape... and that would explain the PTSD. The ex-P took advantage of his position of authority. Some Ns/Ps take advantage of their position as lovers/spouses. Others use their authority.

#23 Nov 18 - 8PM (Reply to #20)

Briseis

Michelle

The problem with consensus on NPD is not that it exists or doesn't exist. It's the ongoing hassle of trying to apply empirical scientific process to a psychological process. And the DSM serves a purpose, to pigeon hole disease entities into categories that an insurance company will be willing to compensate for :D . OK, it serves more of a purpose than that, but don't be fooled that this isn't part of the "why". As I go along, I can't help but agree that at some level in their awareness, the Narc would not want to be who they are, and if they could choose better, they would. But they can't. It's why I don't see any sense in revenge anymore (I sure did in the past). They are DOOMED in a way that no one can fix. It's like they have an incurable virus infection like Hep C or HIV and they are truly SCREWED. That inspires pity in me, anymore. Not ongoing rage. You know? I don't "condemn" him. He is already condemned, and I didn't do it, and neither did he. It was some conspiracy of factors that I do not understand, and it looks like our doctors don't get it either, at least presently. He has a lethal condition. It may not kill his body, but it probably will shorten his life. It most certainly has killed his soul. So what does that have to do with focusing on yourself? Hmmm. Since I exist in a fabric of other people, I have to be constantly aware of my "judgment" of other people. Mainly because I am both an individual and interconnected with the person I judge. What happens inside me is that I let it go. I accept that I don't understand, and that I am powerless over what another person does. It turns the focus back to me. What I do "judge" in others is . . . mostly none of my business? I don't take it terribly seriously. Like sticking a sticky note to something. It will peel off easily. LOL. Am I getting you Michelle? You sure do make me think :)

#24 Nov 18 - 8PM (Reply to #21)

michele115 (not verified)

Oh Brie!

Am I getting you Michelle? You sure do make me think :) My Gosh! That's it! Maybe that's why that soul searching finger smelling SOB Left me! LMAO... Yes, you pretty much get me...:)

#25 Nov 18 - 8PM (Reply to #22)

Briseis

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! You are

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! You are probably right. Finger smelling SOB :D oh shit, I can barely type I'm limp from laughing :D

#26 Nov 18 - 9PM (Reply to #23)

michele115 (not verified)

I stole it from Neil Simon

Last of the Red Hot Lovers....

#27 Nov 18 - 8PM (Reply to #18)

michele115 (not verified)

Brie...

#28 Nov 18 - 4PM (Reply to #14)

DitchHisAss

My Grandmother says

Be wise - Be Smart - Be Well - Be You! There is what you say happened and what he says happened and what really happened. Somewhere between the two sides is the middle of the truth. I’m sure that makes sense to Granny (lol). Truth is subjective.

Be wise - Be Smart - Be Well - Be You!

#29 Nov 18 - 5PM (Reply to #15)

michele115 (not verified)

There are always three sides to the story

Granny was spot on...

#30 Nov 18 - 7PM (Reply to #16)

Briseis

OMG

"there is always three sides to the story" THAT is what has been confusing me all my life. There are more than two sides. Of course there is. But probably not more than three.

#31 Nov 18 - 4PM (Reply to #12)

DitchHisAss

the Whole TRUTH Briseis

Be wise - Be Smart - Be Well - Be You! Now that was Spot On!

Be wise - Be Smart - Be Well - Be You!

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