Well, now I'm thoroughly confused!

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#1 Nov 19 - 2PM

terri

Well, now I'm thoroughly confused!

Well, yesterday I had a session with my Psych who I haven't seen in over 2 months and of course the N was a major topic in the session. My perspective has altered a bit since I've been on this board and for the better, in my opinion. At least I thought much of the confusion I was feeling about the N's behavior (and subsequently my own behavior) had been cleared up after reading so much here about what N's do and how it affects their victims.

Anyway, the Psych told me that she doesn't really think that the N is really a N (at least not a pathological N or suffering from NPD). She does think that he has suffered from "narcissistic injury" after the breakup of the engagement (initiated by me) but questions that he is truly disordered. OK...if someone suffers narcissistic injury, doesn't that mean they're a narcissist??

I feel like this has bumped me back to square one in trying to understand everything.

#2 Nov 19 - 8PM

betty2020

"OK...if someone suffers

"OK...if someone suffers narcissistic injury, doesn't that mean they're a narcissist??" Yes only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#3 Nov 19 - 8PM (Reply to #13)

betty2020

One last thing Terri. If

One last thing Terri. If your doctor is using the term "narcissistic injury" out of context and does not understand the meaning of this, I would recommend finding a new doctor. only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#4 Nov 19 - 5PM

betty2020

This is the definition of

This is the definition of Narcissistic injury/rage. Narcissistic injury is a threat to a narcissist’s self-esteem or worth. Narcissistic Rage comes as a result of injury and comes in many forms, but all pertain to the same important thing, revenge. Narcissistic rage is a reaction to narcissistic injury (when the narcissist feels degraded by another person). When the narcissist's grandiose sense of self-worth is perceivably being attacked by another person (typically in the form of criticism), the narcissist's natural reaction is to rage and pull down the self-worth of others (to make the narcissist feel superior to them). It is an attempt by the narcissist to soothe their internal pain and hostility, while at the same time rebuilding their own self-worth. Narcissistic rage should not be confused with anger (although the two are similar), and is not necessarily caused by a situation that would typically provoke anger in an individual. Narcissistic rage also occurs when the narcissist is perceivably being prevented from accomplishing their grandiose fantasies. Narcissistic rage is frequently short-term, and passes when the narcissist rationalizes the shame that they felt only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#5 Nov 19 - 6PM (Reply to #6)

onwithmylife

For Betty

I am not an expert on narcissistic rage but from my example with my EXN he WAS in a constant state of rage just lying dormant, like a volcano, ready to erupt at the slightest provocation, that is what surprised me when you mentioned it is usually shortlived. I wish it was like that with him and as he got older he seemed more rageful, and more grumpy and peevish.He is now in his later 60's.feeling like everyone did him wrong..i do not recall him every feeling shame at all as to how he behaved, only justifying it all and letting me be his doormat to wipe his filth on....

#6 Nov 19 - 8PM (Reply to #8)

betty2020

This is the clinical

This is the clinical definition. Rage refers to the lashing out and revenge tactics they employ once they are harmed or injured. They can carry resentments for a life time. It can appear as rage when the subject matter is brought back up for discussion. When something of significance has caused injury to them they will carry this indefinitely as a means of defense to their fragile self esteem or for not getting something they feel they justly deserve. Rage is a reactive state the takes place immediately after injury has occurred. They may hold the grudge and resentment but not necessarily react in vengeful manner long after injury has occurred, this is more immediate. It is much easier for them to devalue or discredit the other party in their mind as to justify their rightness in the situation. They always have to come out on top in every situation. I will also caution that their are exceptions to this rule. Some will seek out means of revenge long after the perceived injury has been sustained. And lets not forget that not all PDIs suffer only with NPD. More than not many have overlapping issues involving APD or other associated cluster B PDs. So short lived means the immediate response of rage due to injury. Resentment is something different. Projecting blame is coupled with resentment and is a classic trait for the Narcissist. Hope that makes better sense hon. only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#7 Nov 19 - 8PM (Reply to #9)

betty2020

Also, They rationalize their

Also, They rationalize their shame by devaluing and discrediting the source that dealt the blow to them. Deeming them useless, unworthy and less than human. Once again their egos rise to the occasion to give way to their grandiose fantasy land where they are safe and comfortable. "Look Ma, I'm on top of the World"...A world of perfection in its purest state. only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#8 Nov 19 - 8PM (Reply to #10)

onwithmylife

for Betty

i have a much clearer picture now, thanks! I always wondered where is quest for perfection came from, everything had to be just SO perfect, even the silliest thing. Now I know why I was devalued and discarded because I dared him to question the relationship he had with his mother a a young boy growing up and that maybe he revisited that with each of the women in his life, wow did that get me back a HATEFUL ,VILE, letter whore, slut, advertising for free sex on the internet, first come, first served, ALL HIS WORDS, can you believe that Betty, you would not stop laughing, if you knew the real ME!!!!!they never really know you at all, how sad and sick................they sure do ALWAYS have to be right, I asked my EN would he rather be right or happy, without a moments hesitation, he said RIGHT!!!

#9 Nov 19 - 9PM (Reply to #11)

betty2020

All so typical for a narc.

All so typical for a narc. It is very sad OWML. Sad that they have no desire to know anyone other than on a superficial level. They have no real friends as people are merely objects that they use to get something they need. In a relationship you expect the person that you share your life with to have a sense of loyalty or commitment to you. Your put your heart and soul on the line only to find out that everything they did and said in the entire relationship was an act. All it takes is one small thing said that can start the process of deval. In your case bringing up the mother and his other relationships. This is normal conversation to engage in with someone you have a commitment with. A normal person would have took what you said and looked at it as a means of you helping, and act of love, but they look at it as an attack on their character. No matter what you would have said at that point, the words were out and his judgment was made. Red Flag Alert!!! Remember this as you go forward and move into your next relationship. Keep a close eye on the sensitivity level of the individual your with, it speaks volumes. xoxo only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#10 Nov 19 - 6PM (Reply to #7)

Susan32

Like toddlers...

My baby nephew will throw fits when he's grouchy, but he can be pacified by watching the Wiggles or hearing their song "Dr. Knickerbocker." But with a middle-aged man it's SO DIFFERENT. The ex-Psych professor would fly into rages over nothing... then expect me to "move on" and "let go of the past." I could sense his anger. Being an empath, I'd ask him WHY he was angry. He was so disconnected from it he'd deny it. It's like he was angry.. just because. Once he said "I'm not angry; I'm offended." I told him that being offended is synonymous with being angry. A language philosopher who apparently hadn't picked up a thesaurus. I NEVER felt safe with the ex-P;I always felt anxious and stressed. That explains why I never had sex with him.... I didn't feel safe enough to bare all with him. I was afraid that if I did something as chaste as put my arm around his shoulder or hold his hand, he'd throw a fit.

#11 Nov 19 - 3PM

Briseis

Terri

No, ANYONE can sustain a "narcissistic injury". You, me, Mother Teresa (maybe :D). When we are D&D'd . . . that is a narcissistic injury. See what I mean? Narcs DELIVER the ultimate narcissistic injuries to US, which is the precise mechanism by which they undermine our self esteem, self confidence, and self trust. The DIFFERENCE between you or me sustaining a narcissistic injury, and the Narc experiencing one . . . is huge. Narcs (or people with heavy Narc traits) respond with actual, concrete revenge and destruction upon the person who delivered the blow. A normal person curls up into a ball of pain and just WISHES destruction and revenge, but would not carry it out (unless really drunk, ask Helldweller :D). So your Psych is "right" in that it does not denote NPD to suffer a narcissistic injury. Could it be that your Psych was merely disagreeing with you that narcissistic injury ONLY applies to Narcs? Where I disagree with your Psych is that she is INVALIDATING you by openly questioning TO you that your Narc is not really disordered. Fuck that, you KNOW he is!!! Did she live/sleep/love with him any time recently? No. I'm sorry you were invalidated, Terri. If your Psych had a personal experience with such a person, and then recovered from the damage, he/she would have AVOIDED LIKE PLAGUE invalidating you like this. I'm not saying fire your Psych, or anything. Just keep this in mind. You may decide to find one that is more attuned to your needs, though.

#12 Nov 19 - 4PM (Reply to #2)

terri

already looking for a new Psych

Which is a major pain in the ass, especially since you spend so much time (several months) going over every detail and experience in painstaking detail. The thought of repeating this process makes me feel exhausted!! I realize that Psychs avoid diagnosing people they have not met or "shrunk" like the plague but certainly she's heard enough of the details of his behavior from me to get an idea of his personality traits. I'm learning from the many postings here that my exN is less affected than most that are described here. But the traits that were exhibited were plenty painful enough and have left me in a tailspin. There were no other women that he actually slept with but certainly lots of old girlfriends that never seem to far from his memory or conversation. (In fact, he immediately got in touch with three of them within 2 weeks of the breakup). He's extremely high-functioning in his career and has been witht he same company for 25 years - but not without personnel difficulties since I've been with him. I think the thing that has me spinning the most from yesterday's session is that she seems to be focusing on my contribution to the relationship failing and now has me questioning MYSELF - which believe me, I've already done plenty of! I appreciate that she is MY psych and trying to help me sort myself out but this really didn't help. Where do I go to look for a shrink that has experience with NPD? I'm also very limited in selection because my HMO doesn't offer a huge seletion to choose from either. :(

Believe in yourself!
Terri

#13 Nov 19 - 8PM (Reply to #3)

almostlydia

Terri

Sorry i don't know the answer as to how to find one with this specialty but from what I have learned it is very important to find one who does have experience with the NPD etc....what I have picked up along the way is that the ones that don't, can cause more damage to the victims. Surely there is a some kind of web site for this. I would think Sandra Brown's site would offer something unless they are so about money for their own institute, I don't know. But please leave this psych now. sorry to say most the psychologist, psychiatrist i ever knew on a personal level, not professionally, were the most f*cked up people I know. So I am not shocked by your comments. I think you probably know enough about this subject now to ask the right questions in an interview type discussion before wasting more time on another bad one. Sorry, I digress but this reminds me of the reasons I don't want to deal with A T &T or DirectTV or blah blah blah because how many times do i have to retell this story?????? before we can get to someone who knows what I am talking about and can do something about it????? Please do not feel that you are back at square one over this one person's lack of knowledge. You probably know more than she does at this point. Remember what I said, most the psychologist, psychiatrist people I know are the most f*cked up people I know. almostlydia

almostlydia

#14 Nov 20 - 12AM (Reply to #4)

terri

Almostlydia and Betty (and everyone else too)

Thanks much for your words of advice and explanation of narcissistic injury. I think I'm pretty grounded as a person and have a good intellectual understanding of the clinical nature of this disorder. However, being right in the middle of it (like caught in the eye of a cyclone) is confusing as hell. I'm having a hard time reconciling the hard facts of what I've experienced with the "why". That's much of what I've been trying to figure out in the psych sessions. I think there's a fine line between what we contribute to a failing relationship from our own issues and what we're pushed into doing because of how we've been treated. In my opinion, that's what the psych isn't able to help me with. To her credit, I think she's really genuinely trying to help me. But, as you say, if she doesn't have direct experience with NPD, there's no way she could get it. You really have to be on the receiving end of this disorder to understand its devasating affect. Anyway, Betty's description of narcissistic injury is spot-on and certainly what I've experienced time and time again. I'm now in the middle of this again but this time it is totally different and I think I'll start a new topic thread about it. Thanks again for filling in the blanks today. :)

Believe in yourself!
Terri

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