Toxic people

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 Mar 23 - 5PM
better off
better off's picture

Toxic people

Well.. I keep reading about narcissism..wondering about my husband. Wondering about the Jekyll/Hyde, the alcoholism, the abuse. My counselor thinks he may be bipolar, but in reading about abusiveness in general...one can be bipolar, one can be an alcoholic...one can even be a bipolar alcoholic and still NOT be an abuser. So whatever his other problems, he is verbally and emotionally abusive. And odd. He has always chalked up a lot of insensitive behaviors to having ADD. My N told me that was a crock of shit and he got away with murder blaming it on ADD (funny how my N could see right through that ;) )

I lived with my H for about 18 months before we married (we were engaged for a year of that)...we did premarital counseling..everyone thought we were a great couple. We had an awesome honeymoon in Mexico. Came home..and he said, and I QUOTE..."I'm the husband now and this is the way it's gonna be." He proceeded to tell me everything that was wrong with me and needed to change..which boiled down to two things: Everything I Said, and Everything I Did. He followed me around the house and tried to micromanage every aspect of housekeeping, etc, tried to change my personality. It was horrible. I wanted out after six weeks. I could NOT figure out how I could have made such a huge mistake. I racked my brain for warning signs before getting married. I was 27, not a kid. We lived together...he KNEW what I was like. It has never added up. We fought tooth and nail for a year, and then at about the 1 yr mark he settled down.

I stayed out of my religious convictions. I can't say I wish differently because I have two beautiful children I wouldn't want to "wish away." Things were okay til we had a baby, and whammo, he was back at it, kicking me when I was down. Baby was a huge adjustment. Eventually he settled down again. Had another kid, I was a SAHM. He was self-centered, did some N stuff sometimes, but not unbearable. We did okay til about 4 years ago, when I went back to work full-time. Things have gone downhill since then.

I started standing up to him about a year ago and they are horrible now. He told me he wanted a servant...a Christian servant of course. Who can argue with being a *Christian* servant. ;) He wants me to be meek. He told me over the summer that maybe I shouldn't have gotten married because I "refuse to be broken." What fucking country am I in??? Afghanistan?

We had another fight over the weekend where he blamed absolutely everything on me. He managed AGAIN to twist everything around into me being a spoiled, terrible person, that HE is the victim of...he had me a sobbing mess. AGAIN. It wore off. Today is Monday and I'm remembering that he is a crazy person. He makes me very tired.

Mar 28 - 9PM
Jodie
Jodie's picture

better off

I went through this with my husband. We lived together before we got married as well and although he was a little OCD at first, he went absolutely crazy with it after we got married. He told me, "I am the head of the house!" He followed me around telling me I didn't load the dishwasher correctly, would point out clothes in a hamper that hadn't been washed yet, ridiculed me for getting makeup on the counter, absolutely had complete control over the thermostat, etc. It was incessant. I felt like a servant girl. He was a tryant about the finances, said, "Don't worry about what I spend. I'm in control of the money." But would check my account every day and grill me about every nickel and dime I spent...even though I gave him $2,000 a month for the bills. He told me, "Well you don't live here for free!!!" I was paying for his Viper payment, ebay addiction, etc. Meanwhile I was on an allowance!! He would FLIP out if a piece of my long hair fell loose in his car. He was so OCD. His response, "I like things NEAT!!!" I used to say, "What if we have children? They make messes, etc." He never wanted any kids because of that. I finally had enough and left. He hasn't contacted me once about anything except the garage door opener and putting money in his account. He said to me, "I feel better now that you are gone, the house is so much cleaner."

"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."

Mar 28 - 10PM (Reply to #21)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

house is so much cleaner

This is a direct fucking quote from my STBX. Unbelievalbe....CM Oh, BTW, he now has a Cleaning Lady......
Mar 28 - 11PM (Reply to #22)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

cleaning lady - LOL

Turd told me I "NEVER did the dishes right" (NEVER & ALWAYS being some of his favorite words) Of course this was just AFTER I got disabled and have LIMITED energy at best. But for gosh sake they were CLEAN. First thing he did when I moved out? Got a dishwasher. LOL! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pathologicals only discard the best, the most precious of gems of people... not the worst. They keep fellow abusers, gossips & enabling lackeys close. They despise the principled & honest. Their discarding of you is then their highest commendation!" - A. Valerious
Mar 28 - 9PM (Reply to #20)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

jodie

Were you married to my ex NH? Sounds the same. My NarcMother was the same way. All the 'good furniture' was covered in plastic. Don't touch. No one could do anything right. CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL My house has 2 children and me in it. It's messy but not dirty. And I LOVE IT! ~~~~ "Pathologicals only discard the best, the most precious of gems of people... not the worst. They keep fellow abusers, gossips & enabling lackeys close. They despise the principled & honest. Their discarding of you is then their highest commendation!" - A. Valerious
Mar 24 - 6PM
Carolyn
Carolyn's picture

tired

The drama that comes from his constant need to be the center of negative attention is great for him -bad for you. He is enjoying what he thinks is 'great sport' and you are not. You aren't going to change him and he likes to insult and humiliate you. He does not like you to talk back or retaliate. You have 2 children and they are learning to devalue you by observing their father speak to you as if you are in need of 'control' they might also adopt this behavior towards you. You are a fine person who just thought you had a great partner and a great future. I hope you find the path that leads away from him. great things are in your future! Carolyn
Mar 28 - 3AM (Reply to #18)
jenn99 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

the N's abuse

The abuse fo the N is extremely toxic...even if you feel it may not affect you right away- it tends to linger on afterwards and kind of seeps into your mind and is deeply rooted and ingrained....as reading states it's like a voice that echoes and it really is-- every humiliating degrading mean cruel belittling thing they stated abotu you can come back to haunt you in some form...it's jsut important for people to know in N relationships...most abusers do the same type of abuse but with the N I think it's even more toxic and witha combination of other factors...they really know how to get to every nook cranny in your psyche and just destroy you your self esteem, every belief thought you ever had or have known can be warped changed really skewed or messed with.... There is just something very poisonous about the narcissists style and method of abuse...and it is terrible for it's victims...you almost have to go through a mental debrainwashing to try to rid yourself of the psychological trauma the N abuser has done to you and it's not a simple thing to do...and worse they've projected all their internal nightmares, traumas, problems, past traumas onto you and into you....and their target isn't much except a punching bag, a target for projections, projcetive identification and they solely wish for you to completely abdicate all your needs wishes and desires and take on theirs and be totally controlled by them....it's really nightmarish and terrible...it's jsut to help or warn people who may encounter a narcissist to really run the other way or find a way out...or figure out a way to protect yourself, because the damage they do...seems to go deep and N's also just don't stop, they keep and continue the abuse...all the time and any chance tehy can get...
Mar 24 - 8PM (Reply to #12)
better off
better off's picture

thanks. I am hurting very

thanks. I am hurting very much tonight. These repeated episodes are wearing me down, and really, the calm periods in between are almost worse at this point. My desire to reach out to my N is very strong right now..I don't care if all that comfort wasn't "real" it was real to me. I am just trying to talk to friends and such here instead and be strong.
Mar 25 - 11AM (Reply to #13)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Betteroff

I'm so sorry you're hurting right now. Please do not reach out to him. You cannot. His comfort wasn't real and it was manipulative. Please continue to reach out to us. I mentioned a couple weeks ago about starting a support group call on a weekly basis. I've been looking into it and I think I'm ready to set something up. Would you ladies be interested in something like this? We could even assign sponsors so we each have someone to reach out to, if you'd like. Love, Lisa
Mar 25 - 1PM (Reply to #16)
better off
better off's picture

I think it's a great idea,

I think it's a great idea, but I don't know if it's safe for me to participate in something like that, because of my husband. He'll be gone this weekend though. So maybe. I feel a thousand percent better today for whatever reason. Part of it is reading from a website for the book Freeing Yourself From The NarcIssist in Your Life...it was helpful to me because it spoke of exactly the type I was dealing with: the high-level narcissist. You could have inserted his name into everything she wrote. So much of the material you read is about how delusional their grandiosity is...but mine fit into this category better: very rich, high profile, former pro athlete, etc etc. He and his wife (that I thought he was already leaving)are both high profile, you can google either of them. He was an MVP one year for his country. He was always the golden child, you know? How freakin sad that it isn't enough, nothing is ever enough. So big and yet soooo small. He's busy jet-setting right now. Dick. Anyway. I was also talking to someone this morning and she was asking me if I thought he planned what he did to me...if it was deliberate..and I thought about it..and decided you know, what he did..is just what he does. It's like breathing. I don't think he put any thought into it, he just did it. Snakes slither. They eat mice. The don't think about it. It's nothing personal. For some reason...that made me feel better. I'm sure in his mind it would even be a really twisted compliment...I was special enough for him to use up and toss aside, I mean, not EVERYONE is good enough for THAT ego machine. lol ;P
Mar 25 - 6PM (Reply to #17)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

better off

"snakes slither and eat mice".. Nice analogy. It's so hard sometimes. Especially when we have been the "queen" previously. You are right, not everyone is "special enough" to be that victim. Cold solace, however. Let's stay in touch and know that everyone here is with you. Glad you are feeling better. Interesting isn't it, what helps us?
Mar 25 - 1PM (Reply to #14)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

LIsa. phone call?

Not sure exactly how well that would work but I'm open. I was thinking yesterday after reading posts that what we REALLY need ) (lol) is a tragi-comic slumber party that lasts a weekend! :-)
Mar 25 - 1PM (Reply to #15)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

P.S.

Oh, forgot to add: A weekend slumber party at a very expensive hotel that all of our Ns have to pay for! With a pool and hot-tub and room service! Oh.....and massage therapists!
Mar 23 - 5PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Vampires

In many studies - ADD and ADHD that was untreated in male children? Turns to PSYCHOPATHY in male adults. Psycho-boy blamed EVERYTHING on his ADHD. Everything. Even his sex addiction. No, he is a PSYCHOPATH! So - when are you going to be completely away from him? They make you tired because they are literally draining you. Mentally, physically & spiritually. Barbara http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Mar 23 - 9PM (Reply to #2)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Vampires

Interesting! I never heard that before, but it makes sense.
Mar 23 - 10PM (Reply to #3)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Yes

There have been some major studies (I think one by Dr. Hare the psychopathy expert in Canada) on prison inmates who are suspected or who's behavior has shown them to be VIOLENT psychopaths and over 90% of them were undiagnosed ADHD as children. There hasn't been studies on the subcriminal Psychopaths & Narcs (you know, the ones that just kill your soul, your self esteem and your ability to trust) but from the medical abstracts I read -- the brain pattern are the same and theorhetically a similar percentage of undiagnosed ADD and ADHD. While ADHD in children can often be treated with therapy, medication and school intervention - once the brain matures (around age 21 or 22) forget it. That said, there are some psychopathic children who are born that way. I have this article on my blog: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2006/11/vicious-cycle-of-adult-add-shame-and.html And of course there are adults with ADHD who are treatable but there is just far too many psychopaths who get forced into therapy - the therapist tells them they're ADHD and go on anti-depressants and they think they're cured. Then they don't STAY in therapy, go out on meds that make them feel BETTER about themselves and exploit more people with the excuse "I'm ADHD." Feh! I have a child who is ADD and I am very pro-active in teaching them empathy, putting yourself in someone else's shoes, saying "I am sorry" and meaning it as well as proving yourself through your ACTIONS, not your WORDS. When I read about the ADHD connection - I just remembered psycho-boy telling me that aside from his "cold, distant, horrible wife" - it was part of the lack of control and made him sit in his home office and night with the door locked to keep his kids out writing his reviews of the hookers he banged on his lunch hour and wanking off to hard core porn till midnight. Yeah, right.
Mar 24 - 4PM (Reply to #4)
better off
better off's picture

I guess part of my concern

I guess part of my concern about this is that ADHD is so stigmatized already. I have it. And my H loves to yell at me about the things I "don't care" about. Like being disorganized or forgetful, etc. Irresponsible in some ways I guess. Now I'm reading articles that put all those same behaviors (the boredom, impulsiveness, etc) on the list of psychopathic behaviors. I think what you DO with your impulsiveness is what characterizes a psychopath. I hope, lol. Like banging hookers versus...buying too many shoes. ;P I'd describe my N as having gifted ADHD stuff going on, the distractibility and procrastination and stuff that we really DID have in common and laughed about, and cried about on occasion. But I think some procrastination is just passive-aggressiveness. But to impulsively hurt another person's feelings is different from wanting to impulsively...kiss someone, for instance. I think I'm rambling now. I think my husband's "ADHD" is just narcissistic tendencies in the first place. My counselor wonders whether he has ADHD at all (he got diagnosed in high school). He admitted the other day that he has a hard time taking in what people are saying to him...because he's busy thinking about...what HE'S thinking, and what he wants to say. That's not "inattention" that's self-absorption. The bottom line is he doesn't CARE what the other person is saying...even when he NEEDS to care, like when it's a customer. Anyway, I think maybe ADHD and psychopathy can have similar symptoms, and maybe a lot of people diagnosed with ADHD don't actually it maybe. I'll have to read some more.
Mar 24 - 7PM (Reply to #9)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

better off

Wow, I feel for you being in the middle of a turbulent situation. My partner used to say that I deserve so much better, he was right...and so do you. I also found that I was more forgetful, self-doubting, couldn't concentrate as well as I used to. I realized most of it was from him screwing with my mind...and I would joke that I must be getting senile in my old age! Do you think they care that they're making you nuts? Nope! To me, it's been frustrating to not being able to put my ex into one abusive profile category. He has many layers, some of which that I may not have had the 'opportunity' to see because I got out when I did. I'm realizing that what's important is that the things he did and said (no matter what name it's given)made me feel badly about myself, and changed ME so much in the process. A partner who truly loves you, would ever put you through such torment. It's not worth feeling that bad about yourself, but it's hard to see when completely when you're in the middle of it.
Mar 24 - 8PM (Reply to #10)
better off
better off's picture

thanks here as well...you're

thanks here as well...you're right, someone who truly loved me wouldn't want to see me huddled on the floor sobbing. It doesn't seem to evoke any compassion in him at all. After it's all over and the dust settles then he does stuff like cook for me, "wait on me", etc...which just leaves me feeling confused, not loved.
Mar 24 - 5PM (Reply to #5)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

better off

I never said ALL ADHDers BECOME Psychopathic. Just an extremely high percentage of criminal psychopaths have proven to have had UNTREATED CHILDHOOD ADHD. I have a child who is ADHD - she isn't a psychopath. But I am also nurturing her to have empathy, feelings, think about others, etc. Many CRIMINAL psychopaths had parents that didn't want to deal with their problems and saw them as an "annoying child" or were overly permissive. It's a fine line. And it's not a given. There's a connection but it is in NO WAY absolute. Don't internalize this. If you were a psychopath you certainly wouldn't be on this board discussing this because you'd believe there was NOTHING wrong with you. Barbara http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Mar 24 - 8PM (Reply to #6)
better off
better off's picture

thanks Barbara...I

thanks Barbara...I understand where you're coming from. I guess I have information overload in some ways. I can't seem to STOP reading everything I can find, but it's a lot to process. I suppose I have so much Fear, Shame & Guilt built up inside me that it keeps erupting.
Mar 24 - 9PM (Reply to #7)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

better off

Hi Better off. Remember your name. Both real and on here: better off. You've been in a better place before. Summon your strength and take back this name. You're having a very difficult time right now, but it will pass. I know what you mean about info overload, on the other hand, sometimes that is what helps us to understand what's going on. I totally agree with quietude that, in spite of how you may end up "diagnosing" him, what truly matters is how he treats you and whether or not, in your heart, you feel this is right or not. And it doesn't Sound Right to me. People should be responsible for their actions and words, whether there is a diagnosis or not. How it feels to be with them is what's most important and the way you are feeling says volumes. Please take care of yourself and don't get too hung up on a "diagnosis". The "diagnosis" is YOU feeling crazy for no fault of your own. Please, please....take care of Yourself. CM
Mar 24 - 10PM (Reply to #8)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

better off

You really need to get away from him because he's planting what I call "toxic verbal bombs" in your head that go off - sometimes in the middle of the night - and are destroying your selfhood. Says more about him than it does about you.