things that i am not able to let go..need advice

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#1 Oct 12 - 9PM
moonshine
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things that i am not able to let go..need advice

I would like all your comments on some of the things that i am not able to let go and would like to work on it.

1 The fact that we lived as a couple and he doesn't even admit that i was his girlfriend (I was going through separation from my marriage when i met him and it made it easier for him to not to explain what we were)

2 He never talked about what we were (nor did i ask him to define ...i am stupid ..i know....i thought he liked me too as he spent all his time with me) and only said that he doesnt want a relationship with me when were together in bed for the first time. he started moving forward with the act and said "i feel bad for doing this to you because i dont want a relationship". i was shocked to why he acted very lovable like a boyfriend all the while. I was so into him at that time i could not ask him to get off me if he doesnt want a relationship. it was very confusing. i hope you would understand...i dont know how to explain it better. i also wish to add that he was the first person i have been with (the marriage had a religious twist to it as nothing ever happened as things were only for procreation). I waited for the right person to be in love and do the act.

3 he NEVER kissed me out of the bed room. He never held hands outside but acted as though we are couple. Whenever he saw OW or a potential interest, he would make it clear that I am a room mate and we are not together. I feel very used this way...i feel like a whore. i feel extreme shame for the situation i was in. i cooked and spend time as couple but the relationship was very dis honest. i feel disgusted with me to how i let this happen.

4 all these things he said about the women in his past or the appreciation of OW in the present is stuck inside my head. it drives me crazy at times. I am not sure how to get past it. their bodily features, their interests and what not.

5 to the fact that i caught him watching porn with the pictures of the women of his interest while i was in the next room planning to cook for him. i see this women and him everyday.

6 that he said he never loved me, he has always been looking at OW behind me all through our "relationship".

all being said i got out of his house 4 months back and have been NC with him since mid august. he has tried talking to me (i never initiated talking anytime) and it did leave my head spinning. it was torture to sit through everyday at work with him talking and laughing with the OW. One thing which changed is that the OW came and asked me what is my opinion on he liking her and i has to tell my story. this helped my situation at work...he is not able to play his games with her. at least as of now..this is the situation.

my psychologist is the one who found that he is a N. My psychologist keeps directing me to do positive things but i feel he is not getting these points that are stuck in my head. At times i feel very crazy myself to have gone through such immense pain.

it would be nice to get your comments to move on. thanks.

Oct 14 - 6AM
moonshine
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thanks

thanks for all the great replies everyone ...i could not get back because i was having a bad day.
Oct 13 - 1PM
onwithmylife
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moonshine

I will add what mine said and it isa a slightly different twist, as they are not all total carbon copies, knew mine over 15 years, he never addressed me as his girlfriend, i found out when we were house hunting at one point, he had told a customer where he worked that he and his "lady friend" were looking to buy a house together, I found that term odd. I was invited to family gatherings and included which was nice, though later on I think he was jealous of my being so well liked instead of proud for himself.We did hold hands and kiss in public and he did say i love you, so there was a little semblence of normalcy but in the end he reminded me I lost a life,home and marriage because of what IIIII did to push him further away, note not one ounce of responsbilty towards his words or actions in the relationship..Excuse my English but in the end I was simply no more that a good fuck for him and it hurts now less than it did even a few months ago when I was still grieving over him............
Oct 13 - 2PM (Reply to #8)
moonshine
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lady friend

its all about not wanting to take responsibility at all...so that he can be free to get to who ever he wants to...and then when asked who i was to him he would say "you were a girlfriend" "i came close to dating you than that other girl "(mind you that other girl was fat(i am not opinionated but just saying he is very conscious of how attractive the women is) and no way he will date her). When i asked him "did you ever love me?" he would say "i love you in a different way" "i love you but i am not in love with you". these were just to keep me in his house and also with that he wanted to go out and date. bastard. I dont know what this means. i feel very ashamed to have called as a room mate. 15 years is a long time...though and he never called you his girlfriend? i am still grieving too...but i feel like trash.
Oct 13 - 2PM (Reply to #12)
onwithmylife
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moonshine

He never said girlfriend to anyone even though he was the one to bring up marriage more so than me, You will get over the feeling of trash in time and with some heartbreak and anguish I am afraid, we all have to go thru it, and i spent almost 2 years greiving the loss of th man, lots of years taken from me, what can you do??????????
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #16)
moonshine
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i hope so..

i hope i get over it...i hope we all get over it in time.. i guess what happened in time has happened... i hate they did this to us...i hate i let myself that i let this happen to me..
Oct 14 - 7AM (Reply to #17)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

Moonshine

Whatever you do do not beat yourself up over it, we are all in the same boat. We were trusting,empathic,kind, caring, maybe somewhat gullible women, who like to see the best in people, the NARCS want what we have and they cannot have have it. i remember once when I broke it up because he was always D and Ding me, he sent me this letter to reel me back in but there were parts that said how much I made a difference in his life and how much happiness I had brought to him over all these years and i truly believe .in addition to trying to get me back, he meant it on some deeper level. They are so EMOTIONALLY crippled, i do believe there is some awareness that they are not NORMAL, so I keep the letter and look back with sadness, knowing you cannot change a single soul, but yourself and move on.....I keep telling myself life is a classroom to learn and even though i stayed in that grade to long, I am finally graduating and moving on to the next lesson in life.........
Oct 13 - 2PM (Reply to #13)
Briseis
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When you are going to

When you are going to college, you aren't really "anything" but a student. You aren't a geologist or a journalist or a physicist or a writer. Our years with the Narc were like being in college. I'm trying not to barf when I write this, but it's kind of true. They aren't "lost years". They were years as "students" of Life. Still trying hard not to barf here :D I didn't sign up for this "class" anymore than the rest of us did. There was a time that if I had a time machine, I'd have gone back and dropped the fucking class. I'm only now "glad" that I stayed to get my "certificate". The cool thing is . . . at the end, we get to give ourselves the grade we believe we worked so hard to deserve. I give myself an A.
Oct 13 - 6PM (Reply to #15)
Susan32
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I was in college... literally...

Your post really resonated with me... thank you so much! The ex-Psych professor merely saw me as a "student"... not as a human or a friend, but fulfilling some "student" role. Throughout the D&D, he'd condescendingly say "I'm teaching you a lesson." Pretty bizarre. Like him, I was merely potential... but he remains potential. I once mourned his potential, but I'm not mourning mine! I'm glad I passed that class alive, well, and sane!
Oct 14 - 7AM (Reply to #14)
Used
Used's picture

livingit

one time a friendof both me and narc texted me a couple of jokes that were amusing but a bit graphic... i phoned him up and said i think you have the wrong idea about me...is it b/c you have see me out with narc and thats who you think i am... he kept apolgising and saying no i sent them to loads of people i wont do it anymore.. but ithink i should have said to myself then...if i now take offence at jokes, conversations, actions,with people and say to people you done that cos you have seen me with that lowlife...where was my respect for my self if i blamed the company i was keeping and carried on keeping it...even though i knew the messages it was sending out to people... all i can say..is when i met him[i was vulnrable] i by the time i started to strenghthen up... it was to late.. i was well and truly in it...i must have disliked my self intensely when i met him...i wouldnt look at someone like him now...and i met a friend today he said he had seen him and told me a bit...i didnt care at the time.. but tonight i have got a gut feeling about it...... youw see.the friend i saw was the one who sent me the jokes 2 years ago..and narc knows i still talk to this freind...so whats easier to tell him something knowing ,he will tell me.... they have proxies everywhere...
Oct 13 - 2PM (Reply to #9)
Briseis
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My exNarc married me in a

My exNarc married me in a quick little ceremony in Tijuana. He was still married to his first wife in Japan. I found that out pretty quickly, when he put up a bit of a resistance to filing our marriage certificate in the US. He made a few desultory stabs at divorcing his first wife. He never did. Can I admit that to this DAY, I am so ashamed that my own family does not know that we were never "really" married? That I was a second "wife"? I badgered him, pleaded with him, displayed all sorts of outrage and hurt, which over the years petered out. Yeah, I get it that he thought so little of me that making me an "honest woman" (whatever the hell THAT means anymore) was low priority. What really really really hurts is that I, of myself, accepted it. I lived with it. I related to mySELF as if I was "trash". By living with it, tolerating it, trying to justify it, lying about it. It is such a terrible shameful thing :( The deepest feeling of being "trash" comes from me. Yeah, he treated me like trash, I got that. But it's ME knowing I treated mySELF like trash, like I wasn't worth much. That is what hurts much, much more. And was sooo hard to face. I did face it slowly over all this time (three years). Gradually. It was the worst kind of self betrayal, you know? It hurts more than what anyone else could every do to me. So much of my ongoing pain was hung up on me not forgiving myself for betraying myself. I never knew it could feel SO bad to betray yourself. It was part of how I realized I have an actual "self" at all.
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #10)
moonshine
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oh this makes sense ...but why why why

why do we let ourself be treated that way when we know its the behavior is DEVIANT? Why do we keep staying there tolerating.why do we put up with this SHIT? what do we REALLY WANT from them? when i ask that question i think i wanted his love...affection....but its too much shit we go through for that. i cant understand why. yes i cant believe i let myself to be treated that way...i cant forgive myself. may be i dont believe myself? trust myself? is that why? could you explain your realizations..briseis?
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #11)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

((((major hugs!!!!)))))

I don't really "know" why. I'm only three years out. I have some ideas, though. It's okay with me that I may never fathom it completely, because I haven't had to fathom it completely to move on :) My best "hypothesis" to date is that there is something profoundly real about "trauma bonding". Have you read anything about this? Google it. Here are just three Google hits (of about a bazillion) http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/ritual_abuse/50317 http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Healthy_Relationships/forum/4998458-trauma-bonding http://samvak.tripod.com/abusefamily.html You can and WILL forgive yourself, hon. I said those exact same words . . . and I was wrong. I did forgive myself, and I did begin to understand :) Yes, I think in a foundational sense, we do NOT trust ourselves. I did a thread about this a few days ago, I think Saturday. I think not trusting ourselves is our greatest vulnerability, in a way, THE vulnerability that sets us up to fall for Narcs or anything exploitative. My realizations take shape over time. They get "added" to as I go along. I'm still hanging out on this forum because I am still learning, putting it together, building the realization . . . I don't yet see an end in sight. But I will tell you this: you don't have to understand it "well" to begin to feel free. I've felt growing freedom from the beginning. The freedom grows, too :) You are going to be OK. I promise :)
Oct 13 - 8AM
helldweller
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MOONSHINE

I'll speak to each one of the things you mentioned, because each one is one I am having trouble with, too: "1 The fact that we lived as a couple and he doesn't even admit that i was his girlfriend (I was going through separation from my marriage when i met him and it made it easier for him to not to explain what we were)" -I met mine while separated, too. He never, after four years, called me his girlfriend except to me, when I would ask him if I was. He took his foster kid and my daughter to work with him once and told everyone, "this is my son, and this is my neighbor's daughter." My daughter thought of him as her father and the boy as her brother, and she is now in counseling because of the detachment and rejection. No one knew about me except two of his friends. Everyone else thought he was single, and he liked it that way. He wouldn't even let me walk to school with him, kiss him in front of anyone, meet his child's teacher or be on his child's list of adults who were authorized to pick him up after school. He even lied to the social service agency that he was single so I wouldn't be involved in his foster child's life (who he said we were going to raise together). I think half of this is wanting to be single, alone, not responsible for anyone. And the other half has to be free to troll for love, interest, admiration, sympathy. It was obvious to me that the narc thought he could get more compassion and sympathy from moms, teachers and strangers if they thought he was a single man raising a child alone. 2 He never talked about what we were (nor did i ask him to define ...i am stupid ..i know....i thought he liked me too as he spent all his time with me) and only said that he doesnt want a relationship with me when were together in bed for the first time. he started moving forward with the act and said "i feel bad for doing this to you because i dont want a relationship". i was shocked to why he acted very lovable like a boyfriend all the while. I was so into him at that time i could not ask him to get off me if he doesnt want a relationship. it was very confusing. i hope you would understand...i dont know how to explain it better. i also wish to add that he was the first person i have been with (the marriage had a religious twist to it as nothing ever happened as things were only for procreation). I waited for the right person to be in love and do the act. -This is awful that he was the first person you were every with. I am so sorry. Mine told me on our first "date" that he didn't think it was natural for people to marry or live together, but that he wanted children (?) He told me on our second date that he loved me. After his child came, he refused to have intercourse with me but would not tell me why. 3 he NEVER kissed me out of the bed room. He never held hands outside but acted as though we are couple. Whenever he saw OW or a potential interest, he would make it clear that I am a room mate and we are not together. I feel very used this way...i feel like a whore. i feel extreme shame for the situation i was in. i cooked and spend time as couple but the relationship was very dis honest. i feel disgusted with me to how i let this happen. -Oh, girl! I know how you feel! I would see him in the school yard and go up to kiss him on the cheek or hug him and he would literally push me away and say, "Ok, honey, you made your point." 4 all these things he said about the women in his past or the appreciation of OW in the present is stuck inside my head. it drives me crazy at times. I am not sure how to get past it. their bodily features, their interests and what not. -The times I had to listen to, "Cindy understands me, Cindy knows me, Cindy could teach you a thing or two." Cindy is his ex-fiancee, who he was with for ten years, who he dumped because he couldn't go through with it--twenty years ago! And then, about his "female friends" who I couldn't meet: "They are not drama queens like you, I don't want them to deal with your b.s." And about his babysitter, who would not even talk to my daughters because she was trying to break up the narc and me: "She is a great help to me. She doesn't bitch and moan when I ask for her help." ??????????? This was after a year of me crying and wailing about why he doesn't let ME help him but lets her. 5 to the fact that i caught him watching porn with the pictures of the women of his interest while i was in the next room planning to cook for him. i see this women and him everyday. -Not porn, but he had a framed picture of his ex-fiancee and her daughter on his desk, but threw away every photo I gave him of me or us or my daughters. 6 that he said he never loved me, he has always been looking at OW behind me all through our "relationship". -Mine never stopped saying he loved me, but he denied that he ever said he wanted to get married, live in the house together, or have children. my psychologist is the one who found that he is a N. My psychologist keeps directing me to do positive things but i feel he is not getting these points that are stuck in my head. At times i feel very crazy myself to have gone through such immense pain. -I know what you mean. My counselor keeps trying to focus on ME and I keep focusing on the fact that I can NOT let these things go. The thing that makes me insane is that he has given his life and love and family to this little kid who he didn't even know until two years ago, but he threw my girls and me away. When I see the child, he talks about "my house, my papa, my boat, my room, my uncles, my backyard" and it makes me insane. "That's MY house!" I want to scream! "My backyard!" "My daughters' room!" "MY family!" "MY boat!" I have said it before that I am horrified and ashamed that I despise this child, but I do. I would love nothing more than for him to go back to his mom so I'd never have to look at him again or hear his voice. Pathetic, right?
Oct 13 - 2PM (Reply to #6)
moonshine
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helldweller

Thanks for writing. yes, these are very hard for me to LET GO. I feel sick in my mind and body. its comforting that you wrote back on these issues. When ever i asked him if he loved me he would say that i love you but not in love with you....i was just confused. i thought that he would see my heart some day that i am a nice person and i care about him. all these "love " terms were to keep me roped in. to make me stay at his house. yes, i also feel like screaming that that was my home too that i have laughed, cooked, hugged (well..i hug and hold hand despite his not doing it back to me...i just wanted that from him to make my relationship legitimate some how), spent good times at......now i cant even go inside the house....he wants me to come there but i dont...cos i know he will throw me out any time and thats when i went NC. When children are involved its very difficult. We are dealing with their emotions too apart from our own emotions. he has pushed me away when i have tried to kiss him. its so hard to hate these men who we thought had their best interest for us. it felt better you read your response. thanks.
Oct 12 - 9PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

In a nutshell . . .

Could you be feeling VERY VERY VERY stupid right now? That you layed beneath him and let him have sex with you after that unbelievable put down? That you waited on him and and foot, giving him the best of you while he wanked off to porn in the other room?
Oct 12 - 9PM (Reply to #2)
moonshine
moonshine's picture

yes i do..

i feel VER VERY HURT and STUPID.... all i did was to give the best to him...
Oct 12 - 9PM (Reply to #3)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

The reason I ask is because

The reason I ask is because those thing you mention as being so hard to let go of are all things that, to me anyway, would cause a person to wonder if they were even sane :( I am pretty sure that those things won't get out of your head because beneath them, you are feeling intense cognitive dissonance . . . with yourself. When feelings and emotions are not fully recognized within you, as in, fully felt and dealt with, they show up in other ways. Obsessions are one way, or obsessive thoughts that won't let you go. That you keep going over and over and over in your head with no solution or relief. Bottom line. You got HAD. You got screwed, and you went back for more, maybe even begged for more. You debased yourself with him, and pretended you liked it. You . . . me . . . and everyone else on this forum (((hugs))) Don't forget that this is just what happens to a person who loves a Narc. It's not fair, it is the worst kind of thing to face in yourself. You did it. But then . . . you got out :) You aren't still there doing it some more :D As awful as it is to face . . . facing this self-horror is painful NOW but in the coming days, it will undo those thoughts that still plague you. Slowly but surely. New thoughts and realizations will start pounding in, ones that never occurred to you before. That's how it works. In the meantime just know we all REALLY understand here (((hugs))) OK?? You are SO not alone :)
Oct 12 - 9PM (Reply to #4)
moonshine
moonshine's picture

thanks briseis

these are the things i felt very ashamed to share with anyone. i am afraid people will judge me because it happens. I feel better that i got these things out of me that is bothering me knowing that no one will judge me here. Thanks for understanding. It was very cruel. I feel its worse than cheating when i caught him watching porn with the OW pictures. he said he doesn't feel bad about it. Yes, i begged. i could not even understand why i was doing it as i have never begged anyone like this before. love is mature...it is to be shared mutually. everything was childish there. I am so glad that i am still not there. If I would have stayed ..i would have ended up in the hospital. This is because of so much trust he gained from me. Leaving his house was the HARDEST thing to do...EVER. Right after that he asked me to come back and i was actually thinking to go back...and then i said NO. I am no going to be in that shit hole any more and i deserver better...or just to be sane. i get why i am having those thoughts. thanks for explaining. i read everyday and yet its hard to hit the nail in my head. i feel i am moving forward but had to get this out.... thanks for writing. i means a lot.