Sex is not love with a Narc .

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#1 Nov 7 - 12PM
Scoop
Scoop's picture

Sex is not love with a Narc .

Sex and the psychopath is a huge subject , here is an artical that goes into some of the reasons the sex seemed so good and why some of us mistake narc passion for love , its not love nor did it ever come from a place of love , it boils down to control .. again !

"A psychopath is generally hypersexual with you. He’s excited by the chase and the “conquest,” by the novelty, by the fact that he’s (most likely) cheating on other women and on you, as well as by the increasing control he’s exercising over you.

Analogously, from your perspective, the aura of romance, excitement and spontaneity can be very seductive. Initially, it may seem flattering, even if a bit disconcerting, to have a man who seems unable to keep his hands off you anywhere and everywhere, including in public. As social predators, psychopaths tend to stalk their victims, overwhelming them with attention at first. The movie 9 1/2 weeks, staring Kim Basinger and Mickey Roarke, has been interpreted as a superficial erotic movie. But it’s actually a psychologically insightful film about the process of psychopathic seduction. What starts out as a romantic relationship progressively turns into a menacing dominance bond. The man in the movie stalks the heroine and makes her feel desirable and special. He showers her with attention and gifts. But those don’t come free. For instance, he gives her an expensive watch and tells her to look at it and think of him every day at a certain time. He ends up controlling her thoughts, her feelings and her sexuality. He begins by being very sensual and affectionate, but eventually induces her to engage in perverse sexual acts that she feels uncomfortable with. He pushes the envelope further and further to the point where she becomes just a puppet in his hands. Fortunately, she realizes this and escapes his control before she’s seriously damaged. In real life, however, many women aren’t so lucky.

It may seem exciting to play erotic games or to talk in a raunchy manner. But, over time, this behavior begins to feel strange and uncomfortable. What’s worse, it also becomes normative, since psychopaths enjoy controlling you. They tell you how to dress and what to do or say to please them. They tell you what make-up to wear or to wear no make-up at all. Some psychopaths instruct women to dress very modestly, to cover themselves practically from head to toe, so that they won’t tempt other men. Others, on the contrary, prefer that their women dress provocatively even in public, to demean them and satisfy their penchant for transgression. Many psychopaths engage in rape and other forms of domestic violence. Even giving you pleasure gives them a sense of power.

Eventually, psychopaths need more transgression, more depraved and sadistic acts, harder pornographic material, more sleazy places, more sexual partners and configurations, more everything, to derive the same degree of enjoyment from sex. You begin to feel like a sex toy, nothing more than an object, rather than the cherished, attractive human being you thought you were in your partner’s eyes. It’s no news that most women prefer to be both. We want to be desired as sex objects but also loved and appreciated as individuals. Unfortunately, psychopaths can’t deliver both. Of course, they often convincingly fake feelings of love in the beginning. But, fundamentally, they can only view and treat you as a sex object that increasingly loses its appeal over time. After the honeymoon phase ends, there’s no real sense of individuality with psychopaths. Sexual partners are interchangeable to them. You’re placed in constant competition with other women. As we know, psychopaths constantly seek new “opportunities” to fulfill their insatiable desires. They’re always ready to “upgrade.” To compensate for the fact that you may be exchanged for a newer, younger, hotter, richer or simply different model at any point in the relationship, you need to do more and more things to satisfy the psychopath. Which is exactly what he wants from you in the first place: a total capitulation to his will.

Psychopathic lovers project upon their partners the fantasy of what psychologists call the “omniavailable woman.” They envision a partner who’s always turned on, always at their beck and call, always sexually available to them anytime and everywhere. They want a woman who makes love to them as easily in the privacy of their bedroom as in the public space of a movie theater or a parking lot. Men’s magazines play upon this fantasy as well. But in real, loving, relationships your moral and sexual boundaries are respected without the fear (or the implicit threat) that you’ll be punished for having such restraints. That doesn’t happen in psychopathic bonds. In those, it’s guaranteed that you’ll be punished–with infidelity, emotional withdrawal, abandonment, divorce, psychological and sometimes even physical abuse–if you don’t comply with the psychopath’s requests. Of course, this emotional blackmail is itself only a sordid joke. The psychopath betrays you whether or not you meet his demands. The only question is: does he do it openly, to torment you, or behind your back, to deceive you?

Although being a plaything may seem initially exciting, a woman who becomes a psychopath’s sexual partner loses her autonomy in a relationship where she’s supposed to be, like some wound-up inflatable doll with holes, always available to that man for his sexual gratification (or else…). In time, she realizes that she isn’t loved in any meaningful sense of the term. That, in fact, her needs and desires don’t really matter to him. That just about any other woman could have been used in the same manner and for the same purposes. That many others already are. She’s neither unique nor irreplaceable in her lover’s eyes, as he initially made her feel. She’s generic and disposable to him. She then sees that the multidimensional man she thought cared about her is nothing but an empty shell. His charming exterior masks a completely hollow interior. He can’t love her. He can only own her. Not even exclusively, but as part of his collection.

With a possession, one can do anything at all. An object has no independent will, no separate needs, no sensibilities. Over time, sex with a psychopath begins to feel contrived, cold and mechanical. It becomes an exercise in obedience rather than a bond based on mutual pleasure and affection. Because psychopaths grow easily bored of the same acts, places, positions and persons, the sexual experience becomes tainted by perverse acts at her expense. The bottom line is that psychopaths are lovers who don’t care about their partners. If they give them pleasure, it’s only to make themselves feel more powerful and potent, not because they consider another person’s needs. In addition, since psychopaths get a rise out of harming the people they’re intimately involved with, they’re sadistic lovers: always emotionally, often physically as well. Once they’ve “conquered” you, they start asking you to do things that are degrading or that hurt. What you may do as a fun experiment once or a few times becomes a “non-negotiable” element of your sexual repertoire. You’re asked to do it over and over again, whether or not you enjoy it.

For psychopaths, the games normal people play to spice up their sex lives constitute their whole existence. There’s no other reality, a world of empathy, compassion and caring outside of or even within the context of the sexual relationship. Psychopaths live and breathe in the realm of fantasy. They have no concept of standing by you during difficult times or of coping with your bad moods, illnesses, sadness or disappointments. You’ll often feel alone and abandoned with a psychopath whenever you aren’t satisfying his immediate needs. Moreover, when psychopaths listen to your troubles, it’s usually to draw them out and make you feel weaker and more dependent on them. It’s never because they genuinely care; never because they want you to overcome hardships and become a stronger person. On the contrary, psychopaths cultivate your weaknesses (they make them feel superior by comparison) and prey upon your vulnerabilities. The games they play, both sexual and emotional, are the only reality that counts for them; the only reality they know.

Psychopathic lovers may initially appear to be oceans of raging passion. However, once the honeymoon phase is over, you come to realize that they’re only dirty little puddles. The chemistry between you is as shallow as their so-called love. Compare how the psychopath treated you in the beginning of the relationship to how he’s treating you later on. You’ll notice a drastic reduction in excitement, in interest, in affection, in pleasure and in romance. You’ll sense a mechanization of the sex acts. You’ll observe an escalation in control, demands, humiliation, domination and perhaps even violence. You’ll see that for a psychopath affection, communication and tenderness become transparently instrumental as the relationship unfolds. At first, he was “nice” to you almost all the time. Later in the relationship, however, he’s attentive and affectionate mostly when he wants something from you. Affection becomes his tool of conditioning you like an animal. He gives out little pellets of nice words and tenderness to get you to do what he wants. Conversely, he doesn’t give you any positive reinforcement when you don’t comply with his wishes. The rest of the time– which is to say, in regular day-to-day life–you feel neglected, ignored and unwanted. You struggle like a fish on land to recapture the magical attraction you experienced together in the beginning.

As lovers, psychopaths represent a contradiction in terms. They’re lovers who can’t love. This contradiction may not be obvious at first, when the psychopath is smitten with you and pursuing you intensely. But it becomes painfully apparent over time. If you don’t grow numb to the mistreatment or take refuge in denial, you come to realize that everything that counts is missing from the relationship that seemed to have it all.

Claudia Moscovici

Big love Scoop xx

Dec 1 - 12PM
Lisa87
Lisa87's picture

OMG

Didn't read this post before but it describes my relationship perfectly, very scary to read this and think that what I thought was a normal, healthy sexual relationship he tried to turn into a twisted, perverted one and wanted me to compromise myself. Very very scary, at one point I thought if I really loved him then I should do what he asked. I loved myself more and told him to get lost. His last words were, I would marry you if you were more sexual! Sick sick sick, I am very sexual but his ideas were sick and twisted. He can go jerk off some more cause thats the only way he can come anyway, pervert.
Nov 8 - 8PM
ruby01 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

The sickest thing

about mine was he always referred to sex as f--king.
Nov 9 - 8AM (Reply to #32)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

Ruby01

so true and he called me' his little fucking machine,' I think he only said my name maybe a handful in 15 years, usually when he was mad at me in a reprochful tone, it is proof we were sex objects to them, not real flesh and blood women.............
Nov 8 - 10PM (Reply to #31)
WiltedRose
WiltedRose's picture

Same here. But I did

Same here. But I did too--tried several times to refer to it as "making love", but I could hardly get the phrase to come out of my mouth, it was so disingenuous. It was exciting, it was animalistic, it was very raw in a primal way that I found mostly pleasing....but it was sure not "making love".
Nov 8 - 7PM
rosedewittbukater
rosedewittbukater's picture

Great article Scoop

Yes...in the beginning it seemed tender and passionate. As time went on it became more and more sadistic and a way to dominate and control. I have never felt less "cherished".
Nov 8 - 3PM
Gravity
Gravity's picture

I read this article on the

I read this article on the psychopathy awareness blog and it is 100% true in every sense of the word. The part that made an impact on me is: "That just about any other woman could have been used in the same manner and for the same purposes. THAT MANY OTHERS ALREADY ARE. She’s neither unique nor irreplaceable in her lover’s eyes, as he initially made her feel. She’s generic and disposable to him." And yes, in the beginning it did seem very exciting and passionate and then it turned into him getting off on making me do horrible degrading/sadistic things. It probably seemed so passionate because more than likely he had contacted/slept with/seen another girl before me and was texting/calling another in the bathroom. Once I heard him talking to himself in the bathroom. I asked him why he was talking to himself and he looked at me and was like "um I was saying the ABC's out loud to myself while I washed my hands.. everyone does that.. don't you?!" Like making it seem like I didn't wash my hands long enough. I thought about it.. and he could have been talking to himself, which IS plausible considering the fact that he's psychotic, or he could have been on the phone with another girl which is more than likely. He was probably all hyped up about it when he was with me. Bottom line: it was ALL.ABOUT.HIM. He would describe these elaborate fantasies he had in which hundreds of people were watching him degrade me. All of these fantasies included HIM being the one in control, him being powerful, him dominating me. In the end he OBVIOUSLY flipped it all around on me and told me that he was only doign all of these things to make me happy but he is full of shit. He would have neverrrrr done ANYTHING to "see me happy." It's all about him. All the time, every time, no matter what.
Nov 8 - 8AM
dabussard
dabussard's picture

Oh my Thanks for posting

I so needed to read this... Sex is what he used to control me... Thanks so much for posting!!
Nov 8 - 6AM
WiltedRose
WiltedRose's picture

It's weird....

but in over 15 years of sex, we never "made love". Ever. The sex was good, don't get me wrong, at least at first...but this past year, he made it very clear that if I didn't get dressed up in lingerie and allow the use of....accompaniments....that he had no interest at all. I hadn't "let myself go" so it was a mystery as to why merely having sex was supposed to require so much effort on my part....he didn't even think he should have to initiate, and forget foreplay. Anyway, I decided that if I wasn't "good enough" most of the time "just as me", then his little fantasies weren't worth fulfilling.
Nov 7 - 11PM
aceonelady
aceonelady's picture

Sex...only on Skype What can you tell me about his sex withdr

Mine did sex me up online,daily,no cam only words...a lot of sexual desires,deep dark talks ...later in person,we only had sex 2 times ...firsttime he couldn't keep it up,no matter what i did...it was our first encounter,after 2 year long distance,hundreds of pictures sent and hours on Skype,google talk ,etc...he never misssed a day...Second time the third day after my arrival in the USA,we had sex for about 4 minutes,no foreplay and he telling me to hurry up,go to my hands and knees fast otherwise he would lose the errection,...it was awful...when he was ready,he just left me there,sayinh he was relieved he did not lose the erection as that happenned many times before...and this was the guy that told me he loved sex,and me...and that he could not wait to put his hands on me....oh,and he told me i was just too much,and that was very tirening...he is afro american,and ladies he went from black to white reddish after 4 minuet sex....he said i had too much energy....he is 44 and i am 55...and i wanted more,never got it,he D&D me the next morning,withdrawing afectio,and giving me the push and pull tratment and silent rage treatment...so afro americans do not have more stamina as they claim....

Aceonelady

Nov 7 - 6PM
a65703
a65703's picture

it's so freakin' mechanical

it's so freakin' mechanical and robotic!! Definitely the least intimate experiences with a man I have EVER had. And I would always wonder, IS IT ME? Why don't I feel any love? Not to mention, NPD are EXTREMELY selfish and almost to the point demeaning in bed. I am so happy you posted this Scoop - everything in this article rings true to me!!
Nov 8 - 3PM (Reply to #24)
into the light
into the light's picture

This was one of the first

This was one of the first articles I read in my research after he did a disappearing act and the real doubts started. It rang true then and still does today, 6 months later. It explained his weird behaviour - couldn't seem to keep his hands off me in public, then suddenly switching to zero interest 30 mins later when in my house. He'd turn on the TV instead! Manipulation. And I was never allowed to initiate sex - he was always too tired or feeling bloated (well he did eat like a pig). Control, control, control. And I was always just an object - like a sex doll. Don't think he knew what foreplay was, but he thought he was an expert, a sex god. Ha ha ha. Sick freak. We are SO much better off without them. ladies.
Nov 7 - 6PM
Gaia
Gaia's picture

Oh great topic and article!

Thanks Scoop :) I think for my situation I gave too much from the beginning, telling him all my sexual fantasies, etc.. The sex was amazing, but in a fantasy type way...I really believe we just had THAT GOOD of Chemistry.. He played innocent and coy in bed..never violent but once he did force me, and I was stunned. He said it was to stop us from fighting? I was completely baffled. He also called himself a "switch" ..thats how he put it. Said he like to be dominate, or be submissive depending on the mood. I didnt know that meant this man was a total walking CONTRIDICTION. We played sado/masco games all the time, I believe I became as sick as he was. We complimented each others pathologies. I dont want to be that way anymore, I want to know REAL intimacy/LOVE. So here I am. Goldie , very good reply! This : How is it that one man can be gentle, loving, caring, and yes perhaps boring and he is the shitty lover and another can be forceful, crude, even hurtful and because it feels more powerful, this is LOVE? How and when did everything get turned backwards? Is it our society? The media? Is it our sense of self where we need continuous highs and drama in order to feel the LOVE? I was thinking about this all morning, then I read this post. I kept wondering if something is wrong with me, or is this a culture? These XN's kept us fired up, and I agree w/ Winter about the hormonal cocktail. He was sadistic, and always knew how to keep me coming back for more. Even if a "normal" guy is boring in bed, so be it. I would rather be LOVED, truly loved. Besides, wouldnt it be fun to use those passions we know of and play fun sex games with a less passionate sexual soul, but a man that truly loves us to the core. Love, SG XXOO
Nov 7 - 1PM
peacelily76
peacelily76's picture

I will never forget...

...my ex used to say to me, "Sex is just another form of communication." He was the crappest shag I have ever had because he lacked empathy and could not get 'into' me. I spent three years of my life confused, frustrated, bewildered and screaming for a real man with normal thought patterns. I think this is so sad that a 45 year old man views sex as "another form of communication." It tells me he sees sex as a means to an end, not an incredible bonding experience that cements the trust, emotional connection and permanency of two people in love. In the end I felt like a prostitute some nights and then I would try to get him to 'feel' and I realised I was lying next to a sack of flour. I tried to get him to kiss deeply but all he could manage was a peck. He never developed. It was weird. Truly sad. I feel sorry for him because he'll never get it.
Nov 7 - 1PM
Used
Used's picture

scoop

THANKYOU.....what a frightening *MUST READ*....truly frightening....xx
Nov 8 - 2AM (Reply to #20)
Sea
Sea's picture

Thanks Scooop. Agree with

Thanks Scooop. Agree with you Used. This is truly frightening. They are such dark scary thing.
Nov 7 - 12PM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Excellent article Scoop a MUST READ/SEX and the PD

Wow!!! I love this article because it is the best one I have read on the TRUTH of the matter of SEX and the PD. I have heard it said on here many many times that SEX with the PD was the best SEX ever. I have often asked myself, what does this mean? The most erotic, the most rageful, the most varied positions, the most frequency, the most intensity, what? What is so GREAT about it. SEX with a PD is NOT LOVE, that is for sure. They do not love, they take hostages, victims, they aim for control. How can this be so great? They often lie, cheat, steal, degrade, belittle, insult, use, control, manipulate. So what is so great about being in bed with someone who treats you like garbage? Do we think so little of ourselves and has our society so lowered the bar on what intimacy, love, and caring are that we mistake erotic using as LOVE? How is it that one man can be gentle, loving, caring, and yes perhaps boring and he is the shitty lover and another can be forceful, crude, even hurtful and because it feels more powerful, this is LOVE? How and when did everything get turned backwards? Is it our society? The media? Is it our sense of self where we need continuous highs and drama in order to feel the LOVE? I have heard countless times that the sex with the old BF or husband was either non existance or boring, so does this justify selling your soul to the devil for a few moments of erotic nasty "pleasure?" Can it truly be LOVE when he is also screwing OW? When he D&D's you somewhere down the road? How does sex translate into love when the rest of the relationship is all about lie's and how can it be so darn good when you are sharing yourself with someone whom you cannot trust? Where exactly is the LOVE in all of this? Just some more food for thought. Would love to hear your thoughts and feelings on this subject. God bless, Goldie
Nov 8 - 1AM (Reply to #16)
Tigerlily
Tigerlily's picture

Dear Goldie

My approach to sex is almost entirely emotional. No amount of technique works on me the way feeling emotionally "right" does. I have never had a one-night stand, I have never had an affair, I have never slept with someone I didn´t love and when Wottaprick treated me badly I used to sleep in the guestroom. Wottaprick was technically a lousy lover and seemed pretty inexperienced, too. He rarely kept going for longer than 3 or 4 minutes and was totally clueless about foreplay. The only reason I found sex with him so mind-blowing was that I loved and trusted him so much that I gave myself to him completely, as I had never done with anyone before him. He said it was the same for him, too, that it had to be emotionally "right". Later he began to use "withholding" sex as a punishment, but my own desire had begun to recede by then, since my trust had taken so many knocks. I realized he was just using it to manipulate the degree of intimacy/distance, too. In fact, I think his premature ejaculation was a way of creating distance, or avoiding intimacy - a kind of four-year old`s refusal to do anything that might inadvertantly please Mommy. I suspect that those narcs. who "suffer" from impotence have similar issues. Coming to terms with the fact that he was probably just faking the need for emotional intimacy as a prerequisite for sex, just parroting my own words and mirroring my own attitude back to me, is part of the pain of recognizing just how deeply I was duped, and on what unforgiveably deep levels cheated and betrayed. He cheated me into revealing my deepest self, and then shat all over it. Love Tigerlily
Nov 30 - 10PM (Reply to #18)
faith_
faith_'s picture

Tigerlily, I too was led to

Tigerlily, I too was led to believe that emotional intimacy is what made the physical meaningful for him, as that is majorly the case with me, in every way. I've never casually been with with anyone either, so I wanted to say your whole post is something I can relate to, with the withholding, the lie of who he pretended to be in physical intimacy, and the pain of being duped so deeply. The "unforgiveably deep levels" of betrayal.
Nov 8 - 11AM (Reply to #17)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Tigerlilly

You and I sound similar in this respect. I also respond far better to the emotional connection as oppossed to the bedroom circus. I need the trust and emotional connection to even want to go further. My X was sweet, gentle, looked me in the eye, the whole bit. He was not the foreplay king by any stretch and because I was losing interest he began to do his business quicker. There was always hugging, holding, afterwards. Something which he claimed that I brought out in him and he never did before. I believe nothing that they say at this point. Anyway, regardless to the fact that he was not rough in bed; there was something wrong in Denmark. It was almost too "normal" like he was putting on an act. Just my take and my feeling. My son's father was the same way, did and said all the "right" things but my instincts could feel right through it. It looked right, it seemed right, however the entire experience was laced with lies, mindgames, cheating, ect... I don't believe for one second that someone can be a phoney in the rest of their life and only real in bed. Makes no sense, to me it was all an illusion. They are the masters of the con and manipulation. They can even cry on cue. The last time one started doing that I started laughing and he laughed too and said I guess you can see right through by bullshit now and I said yes, I can. LOL. God bless, Goldie
Nov 7 - 11PM (Reply to #8)
strivingforhealing (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

This does not ring true for all sex with N's

I don't care who thinks I am crazy or still in Narc fog mode. But I have looked at my specific sexual relationship over and over- and I don't think I have rose colored glasses on. The article you refer to is simply not my Truth. As flawed and wounded, my Narc was/is- when we were intimate- I feel ( as does my therapist after much dissecting) think that this is the time he was able to transcend his wounding and Narcissism and connect with me and the Divine. It was never ever crude, degrading, gymnastical, forced. It was loving, kind, considerate, gentle and present. I think my N. lived all his days seeking admiration...but when he and I bonded through sex- it was some Karmic trust that happened that allowed us to let all the wounding go and be fully present with one another and Be In Love. It was transcendent and unlike any other sex I have had- not because it was super hot..but because I felt like Silence/Presence was our language. I know this site is geared toward empowering us and pathologizing the Narc. They have indeed reeked havoc in our lives. But I have decided to hold to the one profound goodness I had with this man- and that was our unique and fulfilling love making.
Nov 8 - 12AM (Reply to #9)
empath
empath's picture

strivingforhealing

I would back you up on this assertion, as the N I was with was a wonderful gentle caring considerate lover and we were always totally in tune with each other sexually. The sex was the only thing that was not bizarre, in retrospect. Which made the relationship that much more difficult for me to end, however I did end it because the highs kept getting higher and the lows kept getting lower. I would be buzzed on hormones afterwards...it would last through the next day. And then I would begin to feel as though I had caught his sadness, sometimes it would feel that way while I wqs still buzzed on the hormone flood. It was crazymaking. As an empath, and as a previously very unskilled one...I would pick up other people's feelings like a sponge, and I would absolutely agree with you that they do feel something similar to love...however it is not love for us, it is a very primal feeling of love and acceptance for themselves, and an emotion of temporarily making the chaos in their minds stop, the closest they come to inner peace...and its again only temporary. When you have sex, the merge actually lasts three days, energetically. There is an exchange that taks place with physical empathy, that brings both of you to a "neutral" state...which is great for an emotional empath as you are not really feeling your body unless you are engaged in sex or something physical that makes you sweat. So there is an addictive bond there that forms in both of you, where physical empathy gets reinforced by hormonal spikes and there is no other way to get that "fix". An N doesn't conceptualize this, and in search of this with OW, it becomes hit or miss...which of course does not stop them from trying with as many sources (OW) as possible, until they find another combination of themselves with NS that produces a similar result. They are utterly desperate for that feeling, which is again not love for you, rather it is a very basic and innocent feeling of self love. It is in stark contrast to their general default behavior with people whom they are not physically intimate with. There are, frighteningly enough, Ns who have gifts of a certain type of empathy...it isn't emotional empathy, it is a physical empathy, an ability to attain physical oneness. You may have noticed a type of telepathy that the two of you developed as well, related to sex. Again, it is physical...not emotional or spiritual and the Ns do not necessarily have conscious awareness of what it is. There is a famous N who is an example of a N with physical oneness as an empathic gift...narc boy John Mayer.
Nov 8 - 1PM (Reply to #10)
strivingforhealing (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

wow! Empath, that really really makes sense!

That is so interesting- how you explain it. I do believe he felt Oneness with me- where his self loathing finally got quiet- so yes- it is more a moment of Self acceptance, than love for me. and that is why he is craving me so much. very interesting. i would not have put this together so clearly like you did. thank you!
Nov 8 - 7PM (Reply to #11)
empath
empath's picture

thank you strivingforhealing

I have always kept quiet about my own sexual experience with the N because it did not seem to fit in with the stories of many others here. There was nothing freaky or unkind or demoralizing or demeaning or boundary busting about the sex in and of itself. Of course in the larger context of it all...I was being used as a fix by an N and not being loved for myself, which ironically enough totally invalidates the experience and does make it freaky and unkind and demoralizing and demeaning...something I have learned to just not take personally. He sought out in me what I provided to him, and I know he sought that same thing out in OW also. It is all about the N and the deep void within them that they are seeking to fill, and nothing for us to take personally or be ashamed of. I am not ashamed of anything I did with the N sexually, it was all very enjoyable and fun and I never did anything I was uncomfortable with. There are no embarrassing memories or degrading acts, no nude photos, no sex tapes, no evidence of anything to regret. I simply loved someone totally and completely and allowed myself to be fully open with him, as I do believe he was also fully open with me...and only in those moments as you describe. The rest of the time, when we were not fucking, is where the pathology of the relationship is so glaringly evident. The sex was the only good thing, and it was utterly blissful...until the "crash" would set in. I loved the feeling of having someone who was my "equal" and could keep up with me...I was thrilled to have someone who "got" me, as opposed to previous lovers who would be overwhelmed by me. I have a lot of confidence in myself and a strong libido, and enjoy sex very very much...maybe too much, which is what kept me hooked into the N for as long as I stayed and made it that much more difficult to leave. Right action, wrong reasons. From now on, I pay more attention to motivation. I am very grateful to know that at least one other person on this forum had a similar experience and I commend you for speaking up. This is a part of my ordeal that I have had to heal on my own, as there aren't any positive stories here to validate my experience...which caused me a lot of cognitive dissonance in the beginning as I could not understand why the sexual aspect of the relationship did not line up completely with "typical" N behavior, when everything else so clearly and overwhelmingly did. to leave.
Nov 9 - 12AM (Reply to #12)
strivingforhealing (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

yes, in our sex- he transcended his disorder

I am not romanticizing. I really believe this- he was so so sick, like all the Narcs we write about....but the tenderness and genuine presence we shared- came from a pure place in him, of that I am sure. I think he was so relieved in these times to let down all his ammunition, barriers and anger- and just be a man loving a woman. it ended the moment the door would close and he would leave. the next day was always withholding or some kind of lie. But I , as you empath, will stand by these precious times and know they were very real. I am glad we got to share this together.
Nov 9 - 1AM (Reply to #13)
empath
empath's picture

strivingforhealing

Coming out of this, realizing what I was dealing with, letting him go...was made that much more difficult because the sex truly was, as you say, transcendant. I do think I have understanding of it now and I am at peace. I am very grateful for being able to keep my heart open and move on from the N. I am not here to be someone's drug, I am not here to be made a sex surrogate and heal their inner void. Who needs that kind of baggage? Not me! Before the N, I had never had sex without understanding the context of it. I always knew how to clearly define it...in my marriage, in a one night stand, in a short-term fling...whatever...I always understood the context. With the N, over the course of six years...the sex was the most deeply shallow experience I have ever had. It was the definition of oxymoron. The best and the worst sex of my life. It is so nice to just feel "normal" again about sex, without all of the "transcendance"! I didn't realize just how much the N was offloading on me emotionally until I chose not to bear it anymore.
Nov 9 - 6AM (Reply to #14)
Winter
Winter's picture

Empath

I absolutely understand and relate to your experience. I could have written exactly the same things as you did, except that I would not be able to articulate it in a such a logical, exact and beautiful manner. Thank you for that. The sex with the narc was very respectful and passionate. It was a unique experience. There was nothing about gymnastic, acrobatic, demeaning nor forcing. All these gestures and words... He "got" me too. And he said the same about his experience with me. I struggled a lot with CD because of that too. The explanation you gave was a relief for me. It has nothing to do with love. It is a purely physical bond... But strong enough... However, as you wrote, I am not there to get his physical needs met to feel his inner void.
Nov 9 - 8AM (Reply to #15)
empath
empath's picture

Winter and Strivingforhealing

Thank you for sharing your experiences here, as they also validate my experience. I have been blessed with a great sex life all my life, and have had some really competent partners. There is no way to accurately describe in words what it was like to be with the N for 6 years...what a shame that he is disordered, because if he weren't so fundamentally flawed, I could not have custom-designed a better lover for myself. Perfect, perfect, perfect...and yet so fucked up.
Nov 7 - 5PM (Reply to #7)
newbegginings
newbegginings's picture

Hi Goldie

A great reply to a great article! Whilst never abused physically in bed, very passionate, exciting, adventureous, you get the idea, once it was over......it was really over. Switch button off, sometimes a bit of conversation, and then the silence and dissappearing act. Now, finally, I have woken up, I always knew it wasn't right, even after the big hunt me down and totally mesmerising me with his charm and movie like seduction(what all girls dream of...corny movie romance). Then bang!!! The chase is over and you are then manipulated with empty promises, to keep you haning on and at the same time left spinning mindfully out of control, as their words never evenutate to anything.I must have been quite a conquest, married with children. No wonder he said he felt like skipping all the way home, when he FINALLY, got to introduce himself in the supermarket. He knew his set task was achievable...then he went in for the kill...and he has killed me, thats for sure. I feel so sick inside, that I was so stupid, to not have listened to that voice inside me. Timtam
Nov 7 - 2PM (Reply to #5)
Winter
Winter's picture

Goldie

I still think that for us it is the anxiety relief during the sex with them which feels so good. When the emotional tension is high, the excitement is incredible. I believe it can be explained from purely physiological hormonal cocktail. Nothing too mysterious or romantic. Second, they know how to seduce, right? They are so good at it. We stupidly buy into it and feeling self confident and most beautiful with them. Which also increase sexual desire and improve sexual expression. Third, not every, but many women like to be dominated in the bed, love to be possessed. This is the way we surrender and “giving ourselves” to a man. Who does “fit the best” , who comes across as an alfa male? We just need to know this is their weapon which they use again us. We should learn to prefer tenderness to the crazy animalistic passion. And maybe to teach with tact the nice guys how to be with us so that we can experience the same with them. Because when we trust our partner, we can experience even more without fear of being devaluated for being open in sex.
Nov 7 - 11PM (Reply to #6)
ifinallygotit
ifinallygotit's picture

Not that simple

My exN, who is a super duper classic N, was kind, gentle, sweet and affectionate in bed the whole time for 10 years (but we did not live together so he could gather himself and start the romance game over and over again with a few days away from me, sometimes weeks). He was never once mean, selfish or making me do weird things. He was a lover boy N. I jsut never understood what the hell was going on...the silent treatments, the coldness for no reason etc