Second-guessing an old conversation I had with ex-N

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#1 Nov 27 - 8PM

Leah

Second-guessing an old conversation I had with ex-N

Hi all. I am getting there...slowly. Thanks for all your replies earlier today.

While I've 'placed' responsibility for crazy-making in ex-N's lap in the conversations I remember having with him, there are a few conversations or moments that I'm not sure what to do with.

I'm sharing this one because I shared it with my therapist this past week, and he told me the ex-N's response was normal. (?!) That's been gnawing at my brain ever since. The therapist didn't stick up for the ex-N in any other regard, thank god.

This was at about the 3-month mark in the relationship. During a week, in 2 different conversations, I had noticed the ex-N refer to his mother as 'mommy' in 3rd person...like, "I had lunch with my mommy." It struck me as odd & it felt like a turn-off. I gently brought it up with him, saying that in the northeast it was uncommon. I think I might've admitted it was a bit of a turn-off for me, but I don't remember. This was ex-N's response:
"I know you haven't been in a relationship in a while, but this is something that you really shouldn't bring up with me. If there's something that I've done that I can change, or a behavior of mine you want to talk about, that's good to bring up with me. But something that is a part of who I am, like how I refer to my mom...that's not going to change. That's the kind of thing you should talk to your friends about, and decide whether it's a deal breaker for you. If it turns you off or you don't like it I'll understand if you don't want to be with me. But when you bring it up with me, it makes me feel like I have to watch what I say with you, like I need to be self-conscious about it."

Background info - his father died when he was 4 & his mom, at the age of 75, is still an alcoholic. They are VERY close.

The therapist said that to him, that particular exchange didn't sound abnormal. He said that while ex-N's habit of using 'mommy' in 3rd person was infantile, his response to my confronting him was normal. Therapist said that it was early in the relationship, and perhaps too early for me to bring up something that required negotiation. That's why ex-N reacted the way he did.

I like this therapist (he's new for me), but I was surprised when he had that take on it.

I'm curious what you all think. While I don't plan on dating again for a LONG, LONG TIME...it would be helpful to know if indeed my approaching someone in the way I approached ex-N in that conversation was inappropriate.

And what's up with calling her 'mommy' in 3rd person, anyway? Is that more common than I think? Isn't it odd for a man to refer to his mother like that?

Thanks in advance for your feedback,
Leah

#2 Dec 4 - 8PM

highlyfavored

Mommy dearest

Well Leah it seems that we come to the table with our own issues and control is one for most of us codependent,his response was actually mature, we have the right not to deal with people , when we realize things do not add up but instead we would just change him rather than make the decision to not get involved.Based on the brief back ground you provided, seems that you can determine that there is a unhealty relationship with him and mommy, but it is a parent/ child relationship and most of us have some form unhealthy relating our parents, he is no different. I would probably not put too much into what he calls his mother, but the fact that the background information suggest he has issues and you have made the right choice,calling his mother mommy made You uncomfortable, thats not his issue that one is yours.

#3 Dec 5 - 8AM (Reply to #27)

Leah

Highlyfavored, I hear you, and yet there's a context to it

Thanks for your comment. Yes, I am a classic co-dependent, and yes, in this particular moment with the ex-N, and it was definitely my issue. I totally agree. I don't know if you scrolled down to read Briseis' comments or not. What was confusing for me was at that point in the relationship, I got the impression that any topic was fair game. The N had seduced me into dropping a lot of my boundaries, and had sometimes even questioned my ideas, beliefs, opinions, etc. So when there was something that struck me as odd, I felt comfortable bringing it up. In retrospect, I should've just left the relationship, because there were a lot of red flags. I didn't feel comfortable with how he said 'I went to lunch with my mommy' because the 'my mommy' part was spoken in a pseudo-baby voice...and it seemed infantile. It was really HOW he said it, more than WHAT he said...which was the red flag for me to leave him. So, I totally agree with you. But because of the seduction to 'instant intimacy,' I mistakenly thought bringing it up with him was okay. That was admittedly my error, but he had definitely blurred the boundaries...so I incorrectly thought anything was fair game for discussion. And his reaction to crossing this particular boundary caught me off guard, and he was rather paternalistic in his response, kind of shaming me. I hope that I've explained myself well. Thanks again for your comment. -Leah

#4 Dec 3 - 5PM

Susan32

After the final D&D...

Let's just say I had ZERO respect for the ex-P's boundaries. He expected me to still worship him, still apologize, or at least hate his guts (he liked being feared&hated) He constantly ACTED as if I had transgressed his boundaries. I was constantly questioning myself. By the end, I was so fed up that if I had played with his emotions for the sheer pleasure of it (such as calling him&hanging up)... I would have felt no remorse. No remorse at all. I probably would've gotten him one of those Nigerian email scams... because Sam Vaknin says in "Abusing the Gullible Narcissist", Ns/Ps lack empathy and have such a sense of grandeur, that when they're the ones being conned, nobody believes them. Thus goes the story of the boy who cried wolf.

#5 Dec 4 - 8AM (Reply to #24)

Leah

Susan32

I hear you. My ex-N did the same thing, I think. He made it appear like I was saying or doing something wrong. Like I had crossed a line. Yeah, they make us want to take revenge...I know. You went through a lot. I admire your strength. -Leah

#6 Dec 4 - 5PM (Reply to #25)

Susan32

I walk the line, as Johnny Cash sang...

The ex-P claimed I was hitting on him, crossing the line, during the final D&D... but it ended up empty threats. (The Greek word for "empty threat" or "story" should sound familiar-it's "mythos") He didn't go to the Dean's office. Perhaps he knew the Dean/my understanding professor of French class would have laughed at him. I felt validation after graduation. He could've kept me from graduating. It was within his power. I got my diploma. My transcript--good grades, except for math. I had a good GPA. I got along with most of my professors. During the D&D, one of my professors showed me great compassion. She said I was trying to figure out my relationship with the ex-P, using "Anna Karenina." She wasn't angry, she didn't call me inappropriate. The ex-P was the ONLY one accusing me of crossing the line. None of his colleagues were. I should've felt cornered and alone (in his sick mind)---but I wasn't. Yes, I learned about the evil in the hearts of men, but perhaps I had underestimated the compassion of others. People are willing and ready to help. Yes, there are jerks. "They make us want to take revenge"-A voice message of ABBA singing "Waterloo" would be sufficient. He hated music, and when I suggested a "War and Peace" musical using that song, he took it as blasphemy. '70s Swedish pop music. Yay! In my junior year, the ex-P said some revealing things- "I'm standing in the way of you living your life." "You don't want to be stuck with me the rest of your life." So I had to move on a decade ago... I saved myself... I didn't abandon him. I can pray for his soul... and let God be God. The fact he hasn't contacted me in a decade doesn't break my heart... from what I've read here, if he did, it would be because he felt some measure of control. Silence is golden.

#7 Nov 29 - 6AM

onwithmylife

Leah

I think this guy you went with has serious issues with dear old mommy from my perspective. So much of the Narc upbringing comes into play BECAUSE of MOTHER and the way she smothered and doted on him. I am sorry but a grown man does not call his mother "mommy" , maybe Mom, but unless he is a blueblood I would be very suspicious. I found out years ago from my EX's brother how their mother smothered and doted on him and yet treated his older brother normally, he as the youngest and initially she had wanted a girl, so you see that issues he was not wanted at first, then smothered to death. As a result he became a bully early on in school so that tells you even more.these men in my view, all have attachment issues espically when it comes to excessive spoiling, they are NOT able to make the crucial break from their mother at an early age to develope an independent SELF, that is good, unique and whole as he should be .This too is where the father comes into play to help the young boy MAKE THE BREAK from his mother.I say over and over again check from now on the relationship of the man to both his father and mother. My EXN had a father who was not there for me, emotionally when he needed him.thee mother was in charge and she was narcissistic herself, at least until she got older, from what his first wife told me. Family DYNAMICS are very important in understanding how these guys operate.Do not keep second guessing yourself unless you want to drive yourself CRAZY!!!!Lie Better Off said to me once, who wants to be with someone who you have to watch EVERY WORD out of your mouth, how exhausting and frustrating to boot.something does not feel right to me the WAY he brought up what you said in reference to "Mommy', he tired to guilt you or something, does not sit well for me, cannot explain it though now......

#8 Dec 2 - 11PM (Reply to #21)

Leah

Onwithmylife, I'm catching up on replies

I was consumed with my grad school application this week. 'Hope this message finds you well. 1 - I hear you about N's mom-relationships. I never found out from ex-N....all I know is he acknowledged he had a lot of trust & abandonment issues regarding his dad's early death and his mom's alcoholism. He had no awareness of his own illness. He's very close to her now. I think a lot of his raging at others stems from repressed rage he feels for his mom. Since she's his only parent, he'd rather be in denial and dote on her...and then release the rage towards others that he feels are more disposable. 2 - Yeah, in that 'mommy' conversation, I think you & Briseis hit it on the head. He shamed me for bringing it up. I think that's why it still lingers fresh for me, many months after the fact. In reflection, he did that a lot. Shaming. Usually in a subtle manner that left my gut feeling uncomfortable, but I always ended up wondering what *I* did...instead of placing blame on him for shaming me. Now I see it more clearly. I'll try to drop a msg to Betty this weekend re: exchanging contact info, okay? Hugs, Leah

#9 Dec 4 - 8AM (Reply to #22)

onwithmylife

For Leah

Happy to help you in any way i can, by all means let Betty know to give you my email address, have a good weekend.

#10 Nov 27 - 11PM

terri

This hit a nerve with me

Because my exN would refer to his mother as "his momma" and would actually call her "momma" in their interactions. The way he would say "my momma" was so baby-like and it gave me the willies! But then he would complain about how controlling and manipulative she was. Talk about confusing! Early on in the relationship, he told me that his mother ruined his father's life! (red flag perhaps?) The exN also worshipped his sister - he absolutely needed her approval on everything. He was extremely critical of my family and observed NO boundaries about what was appropriate but any comment about his family always resulted in a huge narcissistic rage!

Believe in yourself!
Terri

#11 Dec 2 - 11PM (Reply to #19)

Leah

Hi Terri, I hear what you're saying

I would've replied earlier, but was consumed with a grad school application for the past week. Yeah, the 'mommy' & 'momma' stuff seem to be major red flags. Instead of asking my ex-N about it, I should've just gracefully left. That would've saved me a lot of heartache. Sad to hear the nuances of your N story. Yuck. They're all 'yuck,' aren't they? Thanks for sharing & supporting, Leah

#12 Nov 27 - 10PM

Briseis

I agree with your therapist,

I agree with your therapist, on a most impersonal level. One thing that happens in these kinds of relationships is that the normal interpersonal boundaries go DOWN, way too fast. I know I was hot to drop my boundaries, to feel that "oneness". God knows Narcs encourage it, and are so sly about it that all you feel is this sense of blissful "comfort" and safety. Where it might seem completely normal to ask a person about calling their mom Mommy. So I see that you felt comfortable enough with him that asking this question seemed OK. And maybe for the first time, he came back at you with a very serious boundary of his own (how dare you ask??) How much did he ask of you? Did you sing like a canary??? (I sure did). Did you reveal very personal and vulnerable secrets about yourself, pretty much no matter what he asked?? And then YOU ask a rather vulnerable question . . . and bam, suddenly we have prim and proper boundaries. I see what happened as a consequences of you feeling oh so comfy getting close and personal with him, which he deliberately led you to believe so YOU would reveal yourself to him, for his purposes. But it was a one way street. This is actually pretty classic Narc relationship drama. Unless your therapist has been up close and personal with a Narc, and extricated himself and then submitted to the long healing, he won't know this. He's blameless, really. So what he said is TRUE, but he's missing the subtleties of the context. Which unless he's been worked over by a Narc, he would not know. That's what we are here for :) To supplement your therapy :D Your therapist is probably a very good one, you can trust your gut on that. Trust your gut that you felt WEIRD, or a little bit shamed during this "boundary" set by the Narc. You WERE shamed, honey. You were right that there is something wrong with it.

#13 Nov 27 - 10PM (Reply to #7)

Leah

Hi Briseis, I totally hear what you're saying

I think ex-N rushed me into intimacy so fast, and since we were long-distance which meant all talk all the time...it seemed like we were really close. So that's why I felt comfortable bringing up the 'mommy' topic with him. And it was striking me in an odd way, so I was having a hard time not bringing it up. Yeah, his boundary setting felt very weird. He spoke down to me, like I didn't know the normal bounds of a relationship. I did feel shamed, like I had done something wrong. That's the truth. It was totally okay for me to tell him about my sexual abuse history and my insecurities...but it wasn't okay to let him know I was surprised by him saying, "my mommy." Definitely encouraged me to let my guard down, and then I assumed it was a 2-way street. Yes, I shared a lot of my personal background & history with ex-N...without him even needing to ask me. I didn't have any 'hands-off' topics. Ever. I never do. Should I? Is that a boundary I should set? Granted, when I've dated, there are some things I don't talk about in the 1st few dates. But if we've dated for a few months and we've become exclusive, are there really any inappropriate topics? Maybe my boundaries are more off-base than I realized...? Hmmm. Curious about your thoughts on that. Thanks as always for your awesome insights & support, Leah

#14 Nov 27 - 11PM (Reply to #8)

Briseis

There are no inappropriate

There are no inappropriate topics, but there are inappropriate PEOPLE to share them with :) And inappropriate times. I am an open book kind of person, but I share a LOT less than I used to. My first lesson in this was with a friend in nursing school. I invited her over to study, and during studying we started talking about child abuse. I practically barfed my childhood on the table between us. She got angry with me. I was shocked!! I had no idea what I did wrong, and this friend was a decent person. So I told my therapist about it, and she read me the riot act lol. She said "you invited her over to study. You know she is a serious student, and that she drove forty miles on a back road to study for a test. What you did was force her to listen to YOU talk about your issues, when she expected to study." I expected validation that this friend was being a biatch :D I didn't get that, I'm afraid. This is what I've concluded, over the years. In general, unless a person makes it explicitely clear that they'd love to hear about your childhood abuse, or domestic abuse, they don't WANT to hear about it. This is very heavy stuff, it is dark and unpleasant to most people. Those of us who have done therapy and speak plainly about it don't realize that 90% of the rest of the population do NOT feel comfortable with this subject. Not that they are going to tell you to your face (unless they are very assertive, like my friend). And there are two kinds of people who want to hear about it. Predatory types and genuine empathic types who want to help you. How to tell the difference? One indication is to stumble, like you did, across the fact that this was not a two way street. Another way that is more self preservation is to pick and choose who you share this stuff with. Wait until a person has earned your trust. This is very private stuff, it is not porn for some pervert to get off on. You don't owe anyone an explanation for your life, for why you are the way you are. If you are anything like me, there are some people I just want to throw my boundaries down at and start unloading. Unless I am on a support board or in a therapists office, that is my first clue that I am in the presence of a sociopath or a Narc. The correct context ought to be in place, you know? Not some essential stranger you haven't even met. People need to earn your trust, and your confessions. You don't owe them as some kind of bargaining chip. Does that make sense?

#15 Nov 28 - 12AM (Reply to #14)

michele115 (not verified)

Get your thinking cap on Brie...

And there are two kinds of people who want to hear about it. Predatory types and genuine empathic types who want to help you. People need to earn your trust, and your confessions. You don't owe them as some kind of bargaining chip. Does that make sense? I agree and identify with everything you said...I can relate...but going forward...how the hell do you determine which is which? Narcs or at least in my experience, the Narc was very open, going through changes, very honest about his issues etc...none of the narciness was showing at the time - he may not be a narc but whatever...moving forward with this...because he was so open and "vunerable" I chose to trust him too with things - of course my past in no way compared to his and at the time the stuff I'm realizing now wasn't a thought?...it was repressed, but I trusted because HE was so open. So, picture you opening up to your friend - trusting like my Narc did...how the hell do you know when or if someone is trustworthy or an empath? That is where I am having a problem now. I think maybe I am too intense for most - people have said it "nicely" but its how I operate sometimes. So how can you tell? That is what had me fooled in the beginning I think.

#16 Nov 28 - 1AM (Reply to #15)

Briseis

I'm thinking those of us who

I'm thinking those of us who are open book types, or quick to share everything types, need to question why we do this in the first place. For me it was kind of a "drive", I wanted to, I felt I needed to. To explain myself. I think we all want to tell our story to someone else. But why? I'm not saying DON'T, I'm just saying ask yourself what you hope to achieve. For me, I wanted my most vulnerable parts to be safe with SOMEONE. It didn't occur to me until recently (post Narc) to make my vulnerable parts safe myself. And to do that, I wait for people to prove themselves "trustworthy" before I start sharing. It's not easy to tell the difference :( . On the internet, we are fairly anonymous. We can spill the deepest secrets but never share our real name or location and use a proxy server to disguise our location. That's pretty safe. But in person? What do you see this person DO with vulnerable information they may have about others? Are they respectful with it? Or do they speak with contempt or make fun of it? It's kind of a red flag about the other person when they barely know you and spill their guts about painful things. It means they don't have very good boundaries and are likely to (even well meaningly) cross over into yours. In some ways, I'm just going to be a very open person who is careful about who I share with. I have to deal with the consequences of what people will do with that information. Once I let it out, it's beyond my control what happens to it, so I'd better be ready, you know? So I don't share what I think might bite me in the ass unless I am fairly anonymous or have great assurance the person is trustworthy. And that ain't gonna happen after a couple of dates, much less a couple of phone calls.

#17 Nov 28 - 1AM (Reply to #16)

michele115 (not verified)

I usually do have my guard up

Until I "think" I can trust...he at times called me paranoid...LOL But, in the state I'm in I'm like a volcano just erupting with everything... The isolation makes it hard too... Very hard... Too much silence... Not good...

#18 Nov 28 - 1AM (Reply to #17)

Briseis

Well HERE it should be safe

Well HERE it should be safe to let your boundaries down and share your pain. It is a principle effort of the admin team on this board to create a place that is as safe as it can possibly be, and drama free too. Sometimes people "lose it" and sound off or get passive aggressive, but we're all just human beings and there will never be a heavenly peace :D . Not on planet Earth that is. It's good to disguise your identity and not give away personal details that might identify you. Sometimes the pressure is so great you have to blow like a volcano . . . but this is HERE, the forum, where it is expected and welcomed within pretty lenient parameters :) As long as a person doesn't blow out AT someone else on the board, they can blow their top about the Narc or whoever until the cows come home. That's the purpose of this place. My speechification about "poor boundaries" was about IRL everyday interactions. Not this place which is set up in order to contain the eruptions. If it's happening in outer life and a person is losing control or fears it, that is a bit different. Then we need a little extra help. Not to shame you but because you are so vulnerable when all this shit is coming up, you need protection and help with containment.

#19 Nov 27 - 11PM (Reply to #9)

Leah

Yes, Briseis, it totally makes sense

Yeah, I think I've always had loose boundaries. You're talking about discernment, regarding who I choose to share intimate personal information with. Ten years ago, when I met a spiritual teacher and sat in a women's circle with her, I shared a story (which I don't even remember now). She responded by saying to me, "You need to practice discernment." She's still my spiritual teacher, and she would giggle if I reminded her of that moment. Ten years later, and I still need to learn that lesson of discernment. While I definitely don't share my darkest moments with anyone except for close, close friends (in moments of soul searching) & therapists... I HAVE almost ALWAYS shared that personal/family history stuff way too early with most of my ex-bf's. And they often encouraged me and/or shared their dark histories as well. And WHY have I often dated men who had childhoods as dark as (or darker than...) my own????? Ugh. That's at least 15 therapy sessions, right there. In the case of ex-N, he really played with my head, got me to drop all my boundaries, dropped some of his own (making me feel like he trusted me), and I guess that set me up into thinking we actually had some kind of deep emotional intimacy. But we didn't. But that worked for the ex-N because he could confide in me about his problems with his ex-wife, about his teenage daughter, about his depression...etc. It was all a set up so he got free 'support' for 6 months, but he had no investment in me nor true emotional availability. And he got 'free' sex over two weeks of vacations. Very strategic on his part, even if it was unconscious. It's amazing how a PD'd person's unconscious is so strategic. Thanks as always, Briseis! I'm slowly learning... -Leah

#20 Nov 28 - 1AM (Reply to #12)

Briseis

Leah, you learn very quickly

Leah, you learn very quickly hon :) You actively process the feedback, you work with it. Hopefully some of the feedback is worth your time :D Narcs do this all the time, they "create" this fake intimacy, when they are the LAST people on the planet, right behind gila monsters and cacti, to have an intimacy bone in their body. The warning signs of fake intimacy are super fast sudden intimacies. Narc and their victims share some similar personality characteristics, but have completely different motivations for them. One thing neither of us have are very good boundaries. We have poor boundaries because we desperately want to feel safe with someone, and they have poor boundaries because they think they are God. It's about self respect. Look at yourself like a form of currency. As valuable, not to be "wasted", or cast like pearls before swine.

#21 Nov 28 - 9AM (Reply to #13)

Leah

Briseis, I think I crossed a lot of boundaries with ex-N

Wow, this has really got me thinking. Briseis, I started this as a new forum topic. If you have time, please read it & tell me what you think. Thanks as always, Leah

#22 Nov 28 - 12AM (Reply to #10)

michele115 (not verified)

Leah

From what I've been reading, it seems that we have similar stories... Read mine if you can, tell me if you relate. I enjoy your analytical insight. Maybe we could communicate further one on one? Are you on FB?

#23 Dec 2 - 11PM (Reply to #11)

Leah

Hi Michele115, I'm catching up on replies

For the past week I've been overwhelmed with my grad school application...finished it last night. I'll have more time to do messages on Sat, I think. I'm not on FB, but we could exchange contact info via Betty, I think. I'll probably have time to contact her this weekend or on Monday. Thanks for what you said. I actually think my analyzing gets me into trouble. I'm too much in my head...and neglect my body & feelings a lot. : / I'll make time to read your story soon, hopefully on Sat. Looking forward to it. It'll be interesting to see the similarity in our stories. Thanks for being so supportive! -Leah

#24 Nov 27 - 8PM

Susan32

"Inappropriate behavior"

That's the way Ns/Ps act. They have a double standard. They have their standards- and they have unattainable standards for the rest of us mere mortals. For the ex-Psych professor, expressing MY feelings, MY ideas were deemed improper and inappropriate. You simply expressed your feelings... in his eyes, that was inappropriate(!) The ex-P would refer to his parents as "Mom" and "Pop" DURING CLASS, very infantile. He wouldn't speak of his mother and father... but being short like Mom and Pop, he said that. He spoke of them in a very childish way. He got offended during the D&D when I said "your father is a professor, just like mine!" I had been trying to get emotionally close. All I did was make an innocuous remark like that... and Narc rage. The man who liked talking about his family suddenly clammed up. And this happened my senior year. I should've called his parents "Mommy and Daddy",he would've raged anyhow, but mentally, emotionally, he was at that level. As a writer, I follow the motto "know your audience."

#25 Nov 27 - 10PM (Reply to #2)

Leah

Thanks, Susan

So I guess it wasn't so wrong of me to bring that up, was it? That conversation was burned in my brain. Mainly because ex-N got so upset by it. He spoke to me like I was a kid, like I had brought up a topic that was outside the bounds of a normal relationship. Like I needed to be taught how to conduct myself in a relationship...like I didn't already know how. Thanks for sharing your story. Sounds unbelievable. Back when I was in college (a LONG time ago...I'm now almost 38) I almost ended up in a relationship with a professor who was hitting on me. Looking back at him, he was definitely personality disordered...narcissism included. Even though I was charmed by him & enjoyed the attraction, something about him made me feel uncomfortable getting sexual with him. Now that I remember, he was really full of himself. He slept with a lot of students. Thanks again, Susan, Leah

#26 Nov 27 - 10PM (Reply to #3)

Susan32

I wasn't comfortable enough...

To sleep with him. I dated a grad student who happened to live across the street from the ex-P... and I felt RELAXED sitting on the sofa watching movies with him at his place. I didn't feel like I was on high alert&having to protect myself. There were rumors about the ex-P and I being lovers, I'd take long walks off-campus (yes, the blog post about exercise holds true)... but frankly, I'd feel anxious in the coffee shop with him... so bed was a no-go. He didn't even summon enough charm for that. Besides, he had nasty rotting teeth so I would've booked a dental appointment (or made it His n' Hers, to make it romantic) before even KISSING him. By the end, the ex-P was out of shape. He was quite paunchy. During the D&D, he was drinking heavily... and surprisingly, not me. Normal people are known to drown their sorrows in drink;however, he admitted to alcoholism my freshman year. "He slept with a lot of students"-The ex-P was the exact opposite. People were initially charmed, but his cold lack of emotion scared his colleagues and students alike. It was an openly gay professor, whom I seriously think had a physical relationship with him, who showed me the way out. Yeah... so no warning from the Other Woman like some ladies have experienced here... "Relationship with a professor"-There were professors married to former students at my college. The ex-P and I would've probably gotten romantic and married, or at least remained friends... if he WERE NOT A PSYCHOPATH. My therapist said that the ex-P sabotaged not only the teacher/student relationship, but a possible romantic relationship after graduation... or being just friends. If he were emotionally healthy... well, I wouldn't be here. The ex-P and I had mutual attraction... but he expected me to settle for it. There was something almost asexual and virginal about him;like he had never experienced heartbreak. He had a difficult time with my femininity;seeing me in a dress offended him. He was open about preferring men to women, he had a circle of young male disciples... yet lacked the honesty to "come out." For some reason, I wasn't surprised that the woman he married was incredibly manly. She had a crew cut... like him. She wore dark clothes... like him. She'd wear pants suit and tank tops; she was HIS clone. One of my friends said "he's attracted to you because you look like a boy." He'd approve when I wore jeans, but I'd get called a slut when I wore a dress. As for those who say that Ns/Ps are guys who aren't married in their late 30s/early 40s... well, the ex-P tied the knot with the butch girlfriend. After he had gotten her pregnant. The ex-P was worse than a garden variety Narc. I've felt safe with Narcs (like my grandmother) but NOT the ex-P. Even he'd say "You're not comfortable around me" and "Why are people scared of me?"

#27 Nov 27 - 10PM (Reply to #4)

Leah

Hi Susan

It's good to hear stories about other PD'd guys. Good reminders. He sounds like a creepy professor! Thanks for your support! -Leah

#28 Nov 27 - 11PM (Reply to #5)

Susan32

I wasn't allowed to mock...

Him and/or "War and Peace." The saying "ALL attention is the same for a Narc" didn't seem to apply to him. When faced with apparent or actual ridicule, he cut a fast retreat. To quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail "Run away!" 14 years ago... I joked about making "War and Peace" into a musical (Sergei Prokofiev of "Peter and the Wolf" made it into an opera) He took great offense to it. He'd ridicule the Bible and my beliefs, yet "War and Peace" was supposedly sacrosanct. Well, it's sacrosanct until the cast of GLEE turns it into a musical... with the cast in sequined Napoleonic era outfits belting out ABBA's "Waterloo" as the grand finale....LOL....

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