Recovery and Faith

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#1 Apr 30 - 7AM
rew72
rew72's picture

Recovery and Faith

This topic may generate some interesting conversation since we all have different beliefs. I have a strong Christian faith, and God is a main source of strength for me. I believe forgiveness is key in recovery. The bible also says that with God, nothing is impossible. If that is the case, it means the N can change and be healed. I don't pose this because I want him back; however this belief rang constantly as I separated myself from him because it is different from what secular psychology says. He professes a strong faith as well, and funny enough on the list of types of N, there is one called the "Saintly" type.

I also believe everything happens for a reason and that good comes from all things. Another boost for me as I move forward.

So my question: if one has this faith then could the N change and how hard is forgiveness?

May 2 - 2AM
Kitty02 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I don't forgive my two narcs

I don't forgive my two narcs just don't hate them, I am not bitter and I have moved on to a degree as I keep the lessons in my head so I don't get caught out again. If I ever think of them I don't think horrible thoughts I just think it is a shame for people that are like this as they are missing out on so much and I feel slight pity for them. If I forgave them the slate would be clean and they would be in my life. That is forgiveness to me and I don't want them in my life. They can't have me. I don't want revenge, that is up to God and the Universe to decide, I don't won't to tell them about themselves, I don't need their validation and I don't need closure. Basically it is their life their journey and they will either change or they won't, although all the professional on the subject say they won't.who knows??
May 2 - 2AM (Reply to #15)
dudette
dudette's picture

Good points Kitty

I have forgiven my N, as part of forgiving myself and being forgiven too....during the confession process ( I did confession because mine started as an affair the priest thought it would relieve the burden of guilt I was carrying - he was right) But I have not forgotten and not wiped the slate clean. I forgave to give myself closure. And then I deleted the N from the face of my planet.... I forgave for me, to give myself closure and move on :-)
May 2 - 3AM (Reply to #16)
Kitty02 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Exactly dudette

You can not wipe the slate clean because that goes against having healthy boundaries but you don't have to let the experience make you bitter and hinder your future peace of mind and happiness. :-))
May 2 - 1AM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Rev

This is an interesting question, and one that I struggled with early on...I am not very religious so to speak but spritual... I think that it's okay to want to get to a place where you don't hold hate in your heart. On the human level, we need to understand this and I'm not sure if it fits in the "evil" box - it feels evil, but for example in my case, the Narc I believe turned into a Narc due to extreme abuse. I can empathize with that - but early on, he had to detach in order to survive and he learned some very nasty coping mechanisms along the way. Can he be cured, who knows, I don't - I know what the literature says, but then again, maybe there is more that they could do in terms of studying it - I personally battle with a medical illness that isn't well understood and I get labled so many things, and I have to deal with people who don't believe and make snide remarks and make me feel as if they are labeling me lazy which is so not the case...so maybe Narcs are misunderstood who's to say? I know the damage he did though, and I know he's not keen on helping himself and the Lord does help those who help themsevles. Nonetheless, good or bad, he is a child of God... That being the case, I am not sure if "forgiveness" is the thing we need to go nuts over as I believe it's God's job to judge and/or forgive...I think for us, the key is just to get to a place where we don't hold HATE in our hearts...we love ourselves, we protect ourselves, we stay away and let the universe handle them in the manner it sees fit - as it's not our place to control...and in obsessing we must also make sure not to "worship" them as that is in a way making them a "false idol" which I am sure God understands our pain, but it is in times like this he wants us to trust in him, rather than taking control of all of it - it is in releasing it all to him, staying open and in a way seeing where he's leading US... He will lead us, he will send us in various directions along the path to healing, we just have to be open and listen. Hugs!
May 1 - 1PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

REW72

Miracles can happen, However I think your prays should be for your soul,. I know I you hurt and you can forgive, but move on. Hunter.
Apr 30 - 9PM
rew72
rew72's picture

To all who posted on Faith topic

I asked a friend that has recently endured many crisis moments in her life to share scriptures that have helped her along the way. She said while she had verses, she was so analytical that she needed to "see" God. She said in the midst of her pain, she'd pray for a "burning bush," something she could see or experience, something that said "Hey, I'm here and I see you." I started praying that same prayer and you guys are my evidence. I've struggled with my faith and how it played in this. I've struggled that he always talked about Gods plan and used it as part of his D&D. Your comments have given me such clarity around several things: (1) God is all knowing and all good, so He knows where we've been and promises to use it for our good. (2) Yes, God can do the impossible, but we have the free will to choose. Like someone asking for healing from alcoholism but drinks every night. The N has to want help. (3) Yes, I can pray for the N, but without praying for myself even more, he is still in control and I'm still losing myself. Still focused on him above me. (4) The bible also says "For His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts," so we may not understand why all of this happened but we have the promise of Romans 8:28 that in ALL things, God works for the good of those who love Him. Thank you all for taking the time to reply. Two final things: there is a great book called Sun Stand Still which talks about having audacious faith in your life. There are also three songs that have spoken to me: You Are More by tenth avenue, Beautiful by Mercy Me, and Strong Enough by Matthew West. "Forgetting the past and striving forward to finish the race for which God has called me."
Apr 30 - 9PM
HopeAgain
HopeAgain's picture

One day I realized that

One day I realized that too...that God never left me. He was telling me all along what was going on. I saw through the lies and my gut gnawed at me constantly. I believe this was God. For when I thought I was alone in my suffering...He was right there protecting me.
Apr 30 - 5PM
lynn61
lynn61's picture

rew72

thank you for your thoughtful post. i am a christian and my faith and relationship with jesus christ is not only the reason i am surviving, thriving and joyful but alive as well. i walked through true forgivness of my soon to be xhn just two months ago. it was a 29 year marriage and he has professed to be a christian all along (and continues to) while lying and cheating. the important thing is that the forgiveness comes from the heart and is real-and that takes time and a journey. but it was life transforming for me. i believe god removed me from the relationship to save me. i was very co-dependent but was able to leave and now see things rightly. this week in dealing with some court issues where i found he had written up lies in court documents brought a whole new slew of things i will have to forgive again. but i know with christ i will be able to. i have so much hope and excitement about my future! and i am no longer in an oppressive relationship. i believe our n's can change thru christ but they have to yield themselves and be broken and therein lies the problem. thanks again for your post! xxoo's

really??

Apr 30 - 4PM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

rew

Your Narc will Never change, but the good news is you can forgive and make it easier to move on to have the life YOU deserve.
Apr 30 - 3PM
jen79
jen79's picture

oh sweetie

If they would really find to god, and start a spiritual journey, with prayers or meditation, then maybe their brain could change, as studies have shown, meditation is the only way their prefontal cortex that is responsable for empathy can change again. But this will only happen, when all sources of supply are gone, if nothing works anymore, then the pain would draw them to find a way out of this mess, and maybe they would start to awaken. But this is not in your hands. You can pray for him, but only do it for yourself. Walking in the light and with god, also means to let people be who they are, even if they have chosen to walk the path of the satan, which I honestly believe they really do. They are possesed, call it distortion, call it disorder, call it demon, evil thought form or an evil archetype. Its not their true soul, which I believe is always devine, but the evil has taken over them. Big hugs.
Apr 30 - 11AM
dudette
dudette's picture

in the bible

you can replace all mentions of the devil with your N and that would be adequate. Thwere is no recovery for your N for he is evil personified..... Mine used my faith to target me then devalue me. He would question me all the time to the point of argument. We would spend the precious time we had together discussing points in the bible that "he could not quite understand"....I guess that was better for him than concentrating on intimacy or engaging in serious stuff... I have been to full confession and forgiven him. I have done it for me and my recovery. Your forgiveness means nothing to the N. Whe I found out he had cheated for the first time and forgave him, he constantly talked about what that had meant to him, how significant it was.... in fact, this was the first I knew about, there were many other women he needed to be forgiven for..... so forgive yourself first, forgive him if you must, have faith in you. You are wasting precious faith if you believe that he is ever capable of anything else than what he does now.... And the peace of the Lord be always with you :-)
Apr 30 - 10AM
Caligirl
Caligirl's picture

Made sense!

Blessing, your post spoke to me. Thanks. Kev, sometimes your faith will be shaken, I have been there in the past when a relationship ended. Interestingly, the breakup with my ExN about a month ago has not. Yes, God does give us free-will to make our own choices. A friend recently told me that my ExN will have to answer to God someday for what he did to me, the emotional abuse n threats. Both my ExN and I are both Christians, though we were raised in different religious backgrounds. In the beginning, we bonded on this. I once said I was blessed, and then he would say how blessed he was to have me in his life (he was great with words). I was going to church, and he was not, though that was fine (we lived in different states). When I look back, he never really shared much about his beliefs. I never saw true compassion or empathy or forgiveness (I believe the Bible says u will know them, followers, by their fruits). Not to judge, but once he "had" me, it just seemed like he was not the person he claimed. He may even be the "saintly" N, as he professed, but once together, I did not see this. There were too many contradictions. As another poster said, N is a disorder. There is no cure. Yes, God performs miracles, but miraculously healing the N is wishful thinking. They have developed this disorder and way of thinking for years. They are sick, and in need of our forgiveness (a place I am not at now, if I can ever be); not that we actually have to tell them, especially with NC. There are some people who might be able to deal with, live with the N, take their breadcrumbs, tolerate their selfishness and abuse, while the N makes some small, gradual changes for whatever reasons, but that person is not me. I cannot be a doormat. I cannot have a relationship where I am not treated as an equal. I told my ExN what he was, and that escalated the d&d. He has had three failed marriages, all getting shorter, the last one lasted one year, and he knew her less than 1-1/2 years. He wrote me something early on which I now believe indicates to me that he knows exactly who he is. He said that he prays to God he will do everything right, so that I will never leave him. There is a quote I found on an NPD website (can't remember which), "Sometimes God removes people from your life for your own protection. Do not go running after them."
Apr 30 - 9AM
blessingindisguise
blessingindisguise's picture

So Confusing!

It can be very confusing to make sense of all of this. I think we all have a soul and that inside we have free will to conduct ourselves with a good, loving spirit or an evil, self-centered spirit. For those of us who are good, decent, loving people, we will make mostly good choices and do what it right. From everything I've read, this is a personality disorder which means it cannot be cured. No medication will help, no therapy, etc. It is so ingrained in the narc. Maybe this is where the forgiveness can eventually play a part. They are sick, we are not. On the otherhand, I believe the narc truly knows what they have done and cannot face it. It would totally destroy them. There have been a couple of moments where I can see in his eyes he KNOWS. This disorder is so evil and twisted that the only solution for us is NC (or limited contact if you have children together). Do I think a narc can change? They would need to have the kind of strength we have and guess what? They don't. Maybe God could help to give them that kind of strength but maybe it is His will for them not to because we are meant to become strong and go on to our divine destiny. Trust me, I know this can be a struggle to make sense of it all. One thing I know for sure in my case, this was meant to be in order for me to reach my full potential. The narc knows there is no way he could EVER come back. He knows this for sure! I am convinced that even if his new realtionship were to fail, he knows he could never, ever come back again. He wouldn't even dare try. I know the research shows they do come back but in my case, he won't. He knows there would be a football team of family that would knock him down. He would never get to me, ever!! That feels good. It feels right. I know this was God's will for this to happen.
May 2 - 11AM (Reply to #4)
strongerthanever
strongerthanever's picture

blessingindisguise

Hi, I am in the same boat you are in and with the same thoughts. We both have N's that KNOW they can't ever come back and if they did really acknowledge what they did, it will destroy them. I had a psychic reading done a month ago and she talked about how him needing to "fix this and being in a relationship isn't going to do it. it is his free will on whether he will make the changes or not." And i believe that 100%. We know they are sick and I believed my love & support would be the fuel to get him to change. Nope! He just found someone else that was willing to lower their boundaries even further than mine. I had the bar set and he did say, "this is too hard". Too hard to do the work or to do the right thing. He knew he was being bad and mistreating me. He did the nice guy/mean guy cycle and that drove me crazy. I do believe God removed him, and I think Him every day, to protect my son and I. It was my free will to continue and keep N here longer too. I do know that I had the power in the relationship. I saw the true guy and exposed him. N was too afraid of that and didn't want to face things and could not defend the things he didn't want exposed. It was too much work.
Apr 30 - 7AM
kevsmart
kevsmart's picture

Faith: rew72

I too am a Christian and have strong faith. I have had the MOST difficult time with this during my break-up with my ex. Often in my life, I have had moments of questioning my faith, but this break-up actually caused me to question the existence of God altogether. I never prayed so hard for anything in my entire life than for things between my ex and myself to heal. It never did. In fact, it just grew worse and worse. I made peace with the fact that God has given us all free will. I do believe things happen for reason and we may never truly understand His will for us. However, being that we have free will, all of us , including the Narc, God wants us to use our free will to forgive. True, God is all knowing, all seeing, and all powerful. He does have the ability to cure the Narc, just as He has the ability to heal dying children or prevent accidents that may take a mother's life away from your young children. He has the ability, but also has His reasons NOT to do this. I think this is something all Christians have difficulty grappling, which is why we have faith. "Blessed are those who have faith but cannot see.." Blessed are those who continue to have faith even when everything is so dark, that we cannot see the light, or genuinely have reason to not have faith in anything ever again. For me, forgiveness has and continues to be the most difficult part of my journey into healing. But remember, you are forgiving FOR YOU! NOT HIM! It does not in anyway condone the way you were treated. Nor does it let him off of the hook. It just is a powerful healing tool that can give you healing and peace...which we all deserve. I believe God is good all of the time. It is man that is not always good....but when we are treated poorly by our fellow man (and admit that none of us are perfect, which helps me with forgiveness...think about all the times you were forgiven for something...how can we be forgiven if we are not willing to forgive others?) God is always there for us. I hope my words help you somewhat. I know when you are hurting, it is the most difficult thing ever. I have had so many arguments with God during the course of the last several years of my life, but guess what? He never left me.And he never left you and NEVER will. God Bless, Kev
Apr 30 - 8AM (Reply to #2)
rew72
rew72's picture

Kev

Thank you for your post. I too prayed incessantly for the relationship to be healed. I also prayed to take away my desire for the N if it was not His will. My exN used God as a crutch..."God has a plan"...that was the tagline he used each time he left. God was the reason he came back and God was usually a reason he left. Shame on him. I agree the forgiveness is for me, not for him, and your analogy of other unanswered prayers is a great one. In fact, my prayers should be about my healing and not his :)