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  5. Psychology of Victimhood, Don't Blame the Victim by: Ofer Zur, Ph.D.

Psychology of Victimhood, Don't Blame the Victim by: Ofer Zur, Ph.D.

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#1 Mar 22 - 7PM
Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Psychology of Victimhood, Don't Blame the Victim by: Ofer Zur, Ph.D.

The only thing I might modify about this article, is the fact that I think there is a time to embrace victimhood - acknowledge you've been harmed...then do the work to recover...but I am doing a lot of research as I think the basis for a lot of our questions of the why are more altruistic in nature...I think the FEAR of lonliness is a very human condition - and I think that a lot of the "issues" we have are universal...core wounds etc...but that they can be overcome without accepting blame...a lot of these theories put the blame right back on the victim and I think that is very damaging. I think the key is learning how to deal with our own "humaness" learning how to tame those insecurities...those doubts, the shame...and not feeling "flawed" or to "blame" because we are "perfectly imperfect"...in a society where a stomachache is "labeled" a psychosomatic illness...I think it is a breeding ground for a host of "mental illnesses" that can all be cured with various "methods" be it drugs, voodoo chants...my personal favorite...potato water...LOL
I guess my "core" concern is given our vunerability to "brainwashing" that we remain mindful that those techniques are not the narcs only. Because of my background in communications, advertising although not done professionally, I somehow have this uncanny ability to read between the lines...sometimes too analytical...sometimes that's my flaw...but as I'm reading and doing research, more and more certain thoughts are coming to me and I think I'm doing a disservice, by not at least offering the flip side. That what this is about...offering the flip side...not giving you what you want to hear but challenging you to think outside the box because sometimes that is where the truth is...we look in all the wrong places. Anyone can sell you anything. We can sell ourselves anything. But since it's a journey...WTH...might as well examine all of it...

Hugs!

BLURB: *hyperlink to article below*

Similar to the rights movement is the recovery movement. In the last decade we have seen an explosion of 12-Step programs attending to an endlessly growing list of addictions. Many of the 12-Step programs help their members master recovery and discourage feelings of blame and victimhood. However, within the recovery movement, some programs like ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) and CODA (Co-Dependants Anonymous), can easily perpetuate the membership's sense of victimization instead of enhancing their sense of self-mastery and personal power (Kaminer, 1992; Tavris, 1993). Identifying oneself primarily and over long periods of time as an adult child of an alcoholic is to embrace the permanent identity of a wounded victim. While becoming conscious of the original family dysfunction and its effect on the individual is often necessary for healing, it is only the first step. Remaining indefinitely with ACA groups not only keeps people in the mode of the victim, but also prevents them from growing to a place of empowerment and choice. While programs such as AA, NA, GA, and OA attend to a specific addictions, the co-dependency movement assumes, ludicrously, that 96% of the population are victims of a disease they call 'co-dependency' (Schaef, 1986).

http://www.zurinstitute.com/victimhood.html

Mar 22 - 9PM
TLSM
TLSM's picture

I know this man! WEIRD!!!

Michele- This Dr. lives in my town! I've gone to him before for a few sessions years ago! I didn't read what you wrote yet- about what he is saying. I will in a bit (have to put daughter to bed), but I saw his name and it HAS to be one in the same. What a trip.
Mar 22 - 9PM (Reply to #2)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

WOW...TLSM

I'd love to hear what you think of him...is he reputable, do you buy into his theory...why or why not. I think it is important that we analyze everthing we read, don't just blindly accept... So, I'm not posting it essentially because I support or discredit his position... BUT in order to complete the puzzle, I think we need to look at ALL the pieces, all the theories... We are so complex and there are so many parts to the puzzle, I am hesitant to just go with ONE thing? I kinda put a few things together an try to make them fit... Like everything in the Recovery process...you take what applies and leave the rest. The whole doesn't always consist of the SAME parts... Hugs.
Mar 23 - 2AM (Reply to #3)
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

Something that cought my attention in what you said..

This blindly accept michelle I hope you dont feel we blindly accept things like co dependency ...because I myself dont blindly accept ...when I was with the narc I discovered something wrong by research days on in.. .could this be what you assume those who are for co dependency is doing..correct me if im wrong..because just because we accept it ..doesnt mean we are then blind..if so i firmly disagree..would like to hear your point of view on that...

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Mar 23 - 4AM (Reply to #5)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

yes.

I did not accept it at first. It was suggested to me by someone on this board after I made a post entitled "I have been on this board 16 weeks and I sitll dont know how this happened to me" At first it didnt quite fit. I continued to read and then along with Sharis stuff OMG it all started to click. I dont think anyone here said blindly accept the codependency label. I mean it really is quite simple either it fits you or it doesnt. I mean you know if it does or doesnt
Mar 23 - 5AM (Reply to #6)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sickofit...

And I am just going to caution you this one LAST time...and I will use YOUR words and ask that you keep the image of a snake oil salesman on the far far far far back burner *just for me* YOU SAID - Your doc did not say you were co-dependent you're saying that - he said you're anxious...which means you are self diagnosing...and I will remind you - I diagnosed myself RETARDED...you can't self diagnose, nor do you take the first dignosis a doctor slaps on you either - you do your homework. That post I bumped, I was going to make a "funny" but I read it and realized the S.O.B. was SERIOUS...I came across and I can't find the damn thing now...another "theory" in the pipeline for yet another NEW PERSONALITY disorder...now the way these godamn things work and yes I used the G word! Every so often the psych industry gets together and comes up with alllll these diagnoses, and tweak a word there and add a comma here and puts a Cap there...and VOLA! a new illness is born... And I don't have to tell you this, just watch TV...big pharma has a pill for everything..."do you find you like to eat breakfast at 8:00am everyday? Well you might suffer from...." Now if you study the history of the whole psych industry, for a very long time it was considered a joke...UNTIL they got together and formed the APA and these guys got together and wanted to establish some legitimacy to their industry...note what they did to women with MS and such..."really really reputable"...humph SO they got together and started putting together their manuals and studies, and tweaking all the old guys..the Freuds and the Jungs etc...and BOOM a "legitimate" industry was born...now, I wonder...hmmmm, is there a "gain" to an incurable illness...maybe for the future?... I mean today, depression is what...a lifelong ailment? I wonder if we had some really kick ass shrinks how long depression would last? Pills for depression initially were supposed to be temporary to get you over the hurdle...today they're popped like a daily friggin vitamin. THIS does not mean I'm anti drug...this means that I'm not gonna buy into the first thing that makes me "feel good" that somebody suggests with a couple of letters following their name. This "works" for you...and Shari like I said, I will bet my ass she has a master's of Art which is right up my alley. I'm not trying to spin you and I'm not putting on the spin, in fact, I'm telling you excactly how you need to be thinking...If I wanted to...I think I could get ya...I'm not trying to do that. Trust me, I have some machiaevelli in me myself. I am however, cautioning you simply because, the theory itself is one of blame and projection. Yes, you are "taking responsibility" but in a manner and from a theory that is based on what abusers manipulated to cast blame on the victims. READ THE HISTORY...I have posted a lot of things...You read all of SHARI's site and was sold. Well, for me and this is simply "ethics in reporting 101 - yes took journalism too..you must check and re-check your sources...find the root...I'm not sold that by devouring Shari's site, you've found the root. In fact...reading her articles was "easy" DIG...get to the root...turn the whole damn psych industry upside down! I know it's not humanly possible, but I've been digging very deep. If after you dig, you still say yes, I agree, this issue will die, at least me towards you - not the others AND not the newbies. BUT if you are going to say you buy into something...I am apprehensive that just by reading SHARI and her point of view you are sold. AND just reading anyone who has the same opinion, I'm not sold...the internet is choc full of "repeats"..so no cheating! Fulano takes what shari says and puts it on his site and VOLA...a new guy with a new spin...NO find the source and the justification for the theory and it's not what you think...I mean the justification for why this theory has merit. Read the theory, find out how they arrived at that theory...there is a historical basis that I think dates back to the 1800's/ go over altruism...it's all been doctored...I've been at this all day. Attack it philosophically, I did that too...it's what they do. They are not super human...they can reason - so can you. that's all I'm saying and if you read all the posts I've posted on this, I've tried to give as much background info as I could...and note Sickofit - I make no profit, I sell no drugs, and big pharma will not send me on a cruise to the bahamas if I sway you another way. I'm doing this out of care and concern. Vain Encounters to the best of my knowledge has NO specific position...we are not mental health professionals...but I am not diagnosing, I'm suggesting that before you accept ANY idea - mine included...you think it through... Hugs
Mar 23 - 5AM (Reply to #7)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

caution me one last time....

caution me one last time.... Michelle why would YOU need to caution me. What would make YOU the one to caution me. In my opinion time to shut this thing down. I dont think its helpful to anyone at this point. Im out. cause I dont want this distracting from others. There are other people on here who have posts that need addressing.
Mar 23 - 6AM (Reply to #8)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

That's a good question sick of it...

So, you think I'd be more ethical to let you go somewhere that you are correct, I don't know you but I've done some research that suggests something different. So we are all in this journey of exploring and discovering, having had our asses kicked, traumatized, branwashed and you know...I'ma say it...FUCKED UP... And to make you feel good, It's better I just sit back and let you ramble and not say a damn thing...that's what you want. Well, then, what would that make me? Well, I'm not treating you any different just because you have some time under your belt... AND that whole self esteem rant we had months back...I've changed positons...I think we were polar opposites then..and I think we're now polar opposites again but on the other side...We've Flipped SIDES! Guess why...this damn process is cyclical...how much time you have under your belt...you on month 18 yet? Expect a few more loops! If you are on month 18...then go on and be co-dependent...but otherwise, not as a moderator, but as a peer...I'm gonna chase down someone if I think that they're going in the wrong direction...AND that doesn't make me co-dependent to care about your welfare even though I don't know you personally. It makes me your sister in recovery, it makes me empathatic, and it makes me sincere in wanting to see another woman like myself that has been destroyed not fuck herself up again without really knowing what she's signing up for. That is my personal opinion as a VICTIM...my hat as moderator was temporarily off for this one. And I say this sick of it despite my not having a six figure salary...I don't need the salary to identify myself...salary or no salary disabled or not...if I think you're hanging yourself I'm gonna try to prevent it. You can send money later:P But since we now seem to be playing the game let me top you...note that regardless...we're both here together in the pit of hell trying to get out...you might see the light but you're not all the way out yet...
Mar 23 - 6AM (Reply to #9)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

fair enough but I wont be any

fair enough but I wont be any money coming. I simply was stating Im not stupid. Corporate america wont pay for it. Look if gotten in heated discussions on here before and I left. I think Im leaving again. It is what is. Like I said I dont come here for answers. Mostly just to read and comment on a fascinating subject but at this point its counter productive for me. So I guess what I am saying is Im out. Its taking away from others to consistently debate something I know is true for me.
Mar 23 - 6AM (Reply to #10)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

When you cool down

Would you at least read on altruism? The original philosophical theory? Tell me if you see something connected to "codpendence"... I'll send you money...:P
Mar 23 - 2AM (Reply to #4)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I'm Strong

I believe you are not understanding my approach at all. If you note, I was the one that posted the guy...and I equally asked another member thier take as the member specifically said she met with him. Which means, that despite the fact that I posted the article, it is not an indication that I accept or reject his philosophy...but it was posted for informational purposes. In the role of victim, I state my feelings and opinions. In the role of moderator, I have to wear a more objective hat meaning that I will make it my business to question EVERYTHING...as the process requires such...