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is it a lie when he denies it?

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#1 Jul 15 - 11AM
Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

is it a lie when he denies it?

And what if you have no proof but you JUST KNOW he's lying because the circumstances surrounding the story are absurd? Toward the end, he hated when I'd bring up an "odd story" from the past and ask questions. "I'M TIRED OF THESE ACCUSATIONS, LISA!!!!! I CAN'T DO THIS ANY MORE!!!"

"It's not an accusation, Len. I'm just asking a question. It just doesn't make sense why you wouldn't drive up with your son when he lives 5 minutes away."(or a number of other scenarios)

"LISA, YOU HAVE ACCEPT THAT SOMETIMES THINGS IN LIFE JUST DON'T MAKE SENSE!!! I'M TIRED OF YOU CALLING ME A LIAR!!"

"I didn't call you liar."

"THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHEN THINGS YOU HAVE SAID OR DONE JUST DIDN'T MAKE SENSE, BUT I LET IT GO, LISA."

"Oh? Can I have an example because I don't recall us ever having a conversation where I had to explain something to you because it didn't make sense to you..."

"I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE CRAZY!!!!!!! YOU ARE DRIVING ME AWAY FROM YOU!!!!!!!!!!"

A year and 9 months is a long time and there were tons of these things that didn't add up or make sense. If I recounted them all, I'd be here for a year and 9 months! The gaslighting, the twisting of blame. I could kick myself for the times I ended up apologizing to HIM! How they do that is beyond me. You KNOW you're right, you KNOW you're not crazy yet he twisted your head up so much that you're all... "Baby, I'm sorry. I don't know why I do that to you. You're right, I should let go of the past. I must be crazy. Let me work on me and I promise I will get better. I promise. You don't deserve to go thru what I'm putting you thru. You've been thru so much."

absurd, huh?

Jul 15 - 12PM
trueblue101
trueblue101's picture

Trust your instinct

Honestly, that is one thing I can say that I learned from this whole horrid experience. When I first started dating my ex NB I didnt fully trust him and I didnt know why, it was just a feeling I could not shake. I questioned him on things and he either lied to cover up another lie, turned it around on me, got mad at me or questioned why I couldn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I started to question whether he was right and I let it go only to have it blow up in my face later. I believed all of those pathetic stories and explanations bc I wanted to- its as simple as that but then came the final straw and now I am done. It was a culmination of many humiliations and I was fed up with excuses for his inexcusable behavior and manipulations. We have had NC for about 2.5 weeks (I am shocked he got the hint bc heis relentless) and I find myself missing him but am trying hard to stick to NC. I know I deserve better and want to move on with my life. I find myself looking back at the stories that didnt make sense and it just gets me mad. I wish I could erase him from my memory.
Jul 15 - 12PM
Carolyn
Carolyn's picture

if you watch the movie

if you watch the movie "gaslight" with ingrid bergman she is always sorry that she is acting so 'strangely' When people are acting offended when we say something it is a normal and natural re-action to apologize even if we aren't totally sure what we have said that offended we apologize for the offense itself. so he dances around telling you some thing that at its core doesn't click and when you say it doesn't make any sense he acts offended, you apologize, and feel more confused. then he goes in the other room, laughs at how easy your are, waits awhile and does it again. African-Americans call it 'tuning someone up'. Anything that doesn't make sense, is repetitive, and makes you confused is absolutely deliberate. they think they are cute. It is like a little dance they do to play head games with you. what he didn't like was your questioning the head game. I watched someone in my union office do a form of it on the phone. He had the office duty of answering members complaints. this guy was a true master at tuning people up. When an irrate member would call with a greivance he would take down the basic info name, department,to go to a field rep. then he would say, "have I told you about the raffle tickets?" 99% of the members would immediately get off the phone. Now there were no raffle tickets it was a head game because he didn't want to hang on the phone listening to their tale of woe.
Jul 15 - 12PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

hell yes

denial is the biggest lie ever! I will comment more when I get home later... ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily Online Coaching for Victims of Narcissists/ Psychopaths
Jul 15 - 3PM (Reply to #2)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

lying to you makes the narc feel smart

by (the late) Kathy Krajco People make light of things in order to minimize how bad they are. I think I know why narcissists and other pathological liars think lying is funny and means that they are smart and you are stupid. On my first trip to Europe, first trip to Rome, we hadn't been in Italy five minutes before the first time we got ripped off. When thousands of lira are less than a dollar, a fresh American can easily not notice a couple extra zeroes. I got so sick of being viewed as prey, that I was in no mood to buy anything from any Italian that day we were resting in St. Peter's Square and a guy approached us with some 35 mm slides of the Vatican to sell us. And I should have been interested in those photos, because our camera was on the blink. I didn't mean to be a jerk: I just felt it would be rude to tell him to get lost, so I let him make his pitch. (Now I know that hawkers and telemarketers hate it when you waste their time like that and that they would rather you hang up or tell them to buzz off.) I just kept shaking my head and saying no I didn't want them. My sister saw me as the perfect bargaining tool, so she let this go on. (She may have even encouraged him for all I know.) Maybe he and his fellow crooks had been surveying the herd for easy-looking prey (= stupid young American babes in polyester) and he had bet them that he would take us for a lot. Or maybe it was just that, having targeted us and having given us his whole spiel, he was too personally invested in the effort. Whatever, his ego wouldn't let him take no for an answer. He pestered me to the point that I got up and started walking away. He followed! He just HAD to make the sale. My sister later told me that she kept listening for his price to get low enough as he was rushing after me, bidding lower and lower and lower with me adamantly not interested in buying what he was selling. "We'll take it!" she suddenly blurted. You should have seen the look on that poor man's face. He had apparently gotten so carried away he went below cost. He told us he shouldn't be selling the package to us for that price. "That's the price you quoted," I snapped. As if he needed justification - this I can hardly believe - he said, well, he wouldn't feel so bad if at least these photos of the Vatican were going to a Catholic. So, he asked me if I was one, and I was (then), so I told him so. He acted like he didn't believe me. You can imagine how that struck me. Why did he ask such a stupid question that gave a non-Catholic reason to lie and put a Catholic in the position of sounding like a liar if she tells the truth? Here was this crook, setting me up with that question and then acting like he didn't believe me. Something - some switch inside me just clicked. I told the biggest whopper I could think of fast enough. "I sure am a Catholic I think," I said snorting. "Uh my brother's a priest and my uncle's a bishop." That was before I learned how dishonest other people are - back when I NEVER lied, no matter what. So my sister's jaw dropped as she gaped at me, totally stunned to hear me say that. Guess what? Now he believed me! Lying to him was a blast. I thought it was hilarious. I thought he was stupid for believing my lie = I thought I was much smarter than him. Which is what pathological liars think when they lie to you. But they conveniently unknow that they are no stranger that you shouldn't trust. That hawker had no reason to believe me because I was a stranger. But if I had been his friend, I would have been betraying a trust in lying to him. So, when people we have close or intimate relationship with lie to us, that is a far different matter. We have every good reason to trust them, and they are betraying that (sacred) trust. We have every good reason to assume that they truly have the friendly relationship with us that they pretend to have. Unless we have reason to doubt them, it would be wrong for us to doubt everything our wife, husband, child, friend, or co-worker says. When we are fooled by a narcissist's lies, that's because we're innocent and honest, not because we're stupid. And it's because the lying narcissist is a creep. http://narc-attack.blogspot.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily Online Coaching for Victims of Narcissists/ Psychopaths