doubting myself

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#1 Aug 22 - 12PM

Anonymous (not verified)

doubting myself

i am beginning to doubt myself, and am starting to think it was all me. and he was reacting to me. and not visa-versa.
he is narcissistic and a psychopath, and yet i am feeling like he did nothing wrong.
is this a normal reaction after they leave you?

#2 Aug 24 - 9AM

infinity (not verified)

barbara

this morning i found an online site helpguide.org which is a non-profit site. it has information on "Healing Emotional and Psychological Trauma". they have information for trauma therapist referral: the Sidran Traumatic stress institute. i called the institute and got some referrals of psychologists who specialize in ptsd and emotional trauma. one of the doctors is close by, and works on a sliding scale. he resumes hours on thursday, and when googled him he seems exactly what i need. thank you for insisting i need help. i can't do this alone you are correct. all of you here, the posts and blogs have helped to to realize that my thinking that its me, and my feeling that i'm going crazy, is normal. my children are grown, and away in israel at university so i am all alone. i was perfect prey. he left in a few weeks ago as my daughter was leaving for school. as i type this, i am eating a hot meal, the first one i've cooked in 6 weeks. thank you.

#3 Aug 24 - 2PM (Reply to #30)

Barbara (not verified)

infinity

excellent If you didn't want to use Sandra Brown, MA's counselors - Sidran is a great way to go. Just make sure they understand about pathologicals. If you get WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS - take it with you. You need to detox & deprogram from him. And I insist EVERYONE goes for counseling, even short term. This is NOT a normal break-up. You may have seen my rant of yesterday: http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/08/21/will-happen-if-i-break-nc-please-add-list-it-all-us#comment-8728 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

#4 Aug 24 - 10PM (Reply to #31)

infinity (not verified)

barbara

i really do hope the the psychologist that was recommended will be a good match for me. he specializes in (woman's)trauma, ptsd, and bereavement.he's 20 minutes from me,and takes payment on a sliding scale. i just feel that i need person to person therapy now. i first looked at the prices at the harm reduction institute and i can't afford it, which is a pity, because with them it's like they already know where i'm coming from. i'm beginning to worry about myself,which is not a good feeling but a great motivator. when i wake up i read posts to remind myself that what i'm going through is the aftermath. i found this artlicle which is disturbing but so brings it home for me.:http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2008/02/21/psychopaths-cat-and-mouse-game/ thank you.

#5 Aug 24 - 10PM (Reply to #32)

Barbara (not verified)

infinity

lovefraud is another site I do NOT recommend. ever. http://www.enpsychopedia.org/index.php/Liane_Leedom http://www.enpsychopedia.org/index.php/Donna_Andersen Even Sandra Brown, MA has ended her relationship with Leedom on the advice of colleagues, I hear. http://www.lisaescott.com/2009/08/22/ptsd-trauma-disorder-not-psychiatric-illness http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/04/16/cracked-vessel http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2006/08/youve-been-brainwashed-by-your.html I STRONGLY recommend getting Brown's book and taking it with you and asking the therapist to read it. If they are educable then stick with them. Far too many therapists think this is a 'normal grieving' process and it's not. But PTSD, left untreated (like mine was for years) does become permanent. And its a bear to live with, year after year. Believe me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

#6 Aug 22 - 8PM

infinity (not verified)

i have been spending the

i have been spending the later part of the afternoon reading. and am still reading. but yes, have so much more to read. and a lot of my questions are being answered from the message board. An Overview of Destructive Narcissism was helpful as well as narcissists suck. i found this site on thursday night, and wish it had happened sooner. while the online medical articles give me insight into their mind, this site gives me support. and validates my emotions and what i'm going through. it is time to concentrate on healing me, and making myself better and stronger. i am taking your advice and finding a therapist monday morning. i never dealt with my fathers death. it happened outside the states, i went for his funeral, and two weeks later returned to a bad marriage, and raising my children. i quite obviously didn't heal. and i never sought help. big mistake, now i am starting from square one. thank you for all your recommendations.

#7 Aug 22 - 9PM (Reply to #25)

Heart

New to the website and need advice.

I too wish I had found this site sooner. I am almost divorced from husband #2, married ten years. He wanted the divorce. It is only in the last few weeks that I finally realized who he is and that there was nothing I could have done to change the outcome. What I can't believe is why he stayed with me for a total of 16 years! My story is long, and eventually I will share it. I am in therapy and it is very helpful, but the pain of this divorce is excruciating. I am meant to be in a relationship, but I am crushed, burned out, drained and depleted. I am so emotionally bruised that I recoil if a man shows interest in me. The interesting fact is my soon-to-be-ex wants us to stay friends and he wants to see me when he comes to my city ( he still lives in our marital home which is 500 miles away); what a surprise... Does anybody have ideas about the healing process and how long it will take. Thank you for the opportunity to share my feelings

#8 Aug 23 - 10AM (Reply to #28)

better off

Heart, perhaps what you mean

Heart, perhaps what you mean is that you are meant to be giving, nurturing, and loving, and you feel fulfilled when you are doing those things. There are other people in the world to give to and love besides a romantic partner. The first person you could start with is...YOU! :-) Decide to have a relationship with YOU and think about ways to nurture you. There are children, animals, elderly, etc...who NEED nurturing as well. There are many areas for your gifts that don't include being taken advantage of. Follow Barbara's advice, and really, read Women Who Love Psychopaths asap.

#9 Aug 22 - 9PM (Reply to #27)

Barbara (not verified)

heart

Go to MESSAGE BOARD and go through ALL the pages. Lisa & I have loaded it with information Go to MY BLOG as Lisa & I have packed that with helpful articles. Get Lisa's Book Get therapy ASAP Listen to our free radio show http://www.blogtalkradio.com/allabouthim This takes time - he mind controlled & hypnotized you. It was HIM HIM HIM - not you. The very fact you are questioning things point to you being the healthy one! Usually about 18 months is the psychological Gold Standard for relief. Yes 18 months. Start No Contact IMMEDIATELY! Reading thru the board & blog here before you ask questions will save you a lot of time because most questions have been asked by others and answered. Hang in there. BTW - no one is "meant" to be in relationship. Especially for us women we are programmed to believe we MUST HAVE A MAN to be valid. That's crap. It's time for you to learn to be alone and like being with yourself. 18 months from now if you want to date, fine. But take that 18 months no matter what. AND NO CONTACT WITH HIM. BLOCK EVERY ACCESS OF CONTACT HE HAS TO YOU! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

#10 Aug 22 - 9PM (Reply to #26)

James (not verified)

Heart,

For me, my relationship lasted for 17 years but thatâ€™s not what is important really. It could have been 2 or 28 years. What is important is this new knowledge and healing will last a life time. In short we must never allow something like this to happen again to us and if we can someday help others as well. There are many many issues to be address. Again what I mean is there are issues we need to address about ourselves and learn why we allow this type of dysfunctional relationship to even be started let allow last for so long. I personally tell others this event will in the end be a emotional and psychological life changing event. Something we will never forget about, something we must learn to live with throughout the remainder of our life. So please donâ€™t worry about how long, just think about how much you are learning and by this doing changing things in your personal life. Just by being here you are now in a position to start walking through many new doors and learning many new ways in dealing with this issues. Welcome Heart to a club no one wants to be a member of. http://james-personalitydisorder.blogspot.com/

#11 Aug 22 - 7PM

infinity (not verified)

thank you again

for everyone's support and input. reading the message board is so helpful. it really brings home that what i am going through is a normal reaction to this situation. and everyone's advice on this site is eye-opening and useful. than you, infinity

#12 Aug 22 - 5PM

Elena

Infinity

Infinity, The way you feel is normal, considering the circumstances. It's part of the aftershock that comes with the experience of being in a relationship with a narcissist. They have a way of manipulating things in such a subtle way, to make you feel like it is all your fault. They are like children, they take no responsibility for their pathetic behavior, so they shift the blame to the other person. It takes time to see the truth of what happened, it has taken me months, I have spent a significant amount of time educating myself regarding the topic of pathological narcissism and how the relational dynamic with them works. And now that I understand this, now I can look back and see how dysfunctional and messed up he is, and everything he did to me. I just wanted a normal relationship with a good man, and I realized I was married to a con-artist. Keep in mind that these feelings are normal, and they don't mean it's your fault. Educate yourself as much as you can regarding this topic, visit the website for support, and also a counselor can be very helpful. But something very important, allow no contact between you two, so you can heal. Blessings, Elena

#13 Aug 22 - 5PM (Reply to #11)

infinity (not verified)

funny you should say no contact-

i haven't text him for a week. and earlier on i just wanted to text and say "just remind me you're a narcissistic psychopath please" so that i don't allow myself to doubt my feelings, thoughts,and memories. the last thing he text was that he's in a good place in his life, and met a new woman. which was i guess a week or two after he left me. and i'm left thinking-look what you did to me. and i feel for her, whomever she is, because i don't her to be one more that he's harmed. and i also remind myself that he is emotionless, has no feelings, so even if decides he's ready for something real-it's still play acting to him. and i deserve a man who has the ability to feel his emotions, and have empathy for others.

#14 Aug 22 - 6PM (Reply to #18)

Elena

That good place is part of his illusion...

Infinity, I am glad that you have not contacted him in a week, keep up the good work. Next time you feel like contacting him, call someone you trust for support. By the way, that good place in his life that he is saying he is in, is part of his own illusion. In life, a narcissist feels like he is in a movie and he is the main character, it's all about him, and it's all fake, a world where he only thinks about himself and no one else. They don't care who they have hurt, they have no conscience or empathy for others. You deserve a healthy man who will love you and cherish you! Elena

#15 Aug 22 - 6PM (Reply to #19)

infinity (not verified)

when i look back at my texts

when i look back at my texts of apologizing or being angry, i see now how he just laughs at it. they're meaningless, and i'm expounding a great amount of energy onto someone who doesn't deserve it or care. and yes it is part of his illusion. i realize from this site, that i'd rather be in this horrible place i'm in now, wrought with emotions, than not knowing what an emotion is. and each day is a struggle not to text. but i know that is is harmful to me. on so many levels.

#16 Aug 22 - 6PM (Reply to #20)

Elena

Infinity, it's only temporary

Infinity, You can't change the past, but you can change your future. And where you are now is a pretty difficult place, but remember it is only temporary; you're going through a dark valley right now, but you will go through it and it will pass. It will get better. I have walked through this valley myself, and it's hard, but now I see more light, and I see how my life can be so much better! And I am looking forward to that! Never loose hope of a better future, no matter what has happened!

#17 Aug 22 - 6PM (Reply to #21)

infinity (not verified)

thank you. i just listened

thank you. i just listened to a radioblog from you. it is cathartic for me to realize i'm not alone and others have come out the other side. the last time i felt like this was 14 years ago after my father was murdered. this just occurred to me. it's all the same feelings,and thinking it won't end. it took a good nine months for me to stop reliving his murder. and i do need to give myself time. it was a shock to my system just like this is. to anyone who doubts that you can compare the two, i am proof that the effects are the same. the loss, the anger, the not understanding. it also reminds me that i have to tell myself each and everyday that i will be okay. your dark valley analogy reminded me of this. after my father died, i felt like i was in a well, with no way out. and yes, now i'm in the same place. if i survived the murder of my father, an good man, then i can survive this. thank you. to everyone.

#18 Aug 22 - 6PM (Reply to #22)

Elena

Yes you can!

Infinity, So sorry to hear about what happened to your father, my heart and sympathy goes out to you. I can't even imagine what you went through. Yes, you can survive this! I believe you can!

#19 Aug 22 - 5PM (Reply to #12)

Barbara (not verified)

infinity - read & heed

http://www.lisaescott.com/2009/08/01/no-no-list-after-you-or-he-leaves BLOCK HIM FROM TEXTING YOU, phoning, emailing,... etc. ZERO CONTACT! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

#20 Aug 22 - 6PM (Reply to #13)

infinity (not verified)

so i finally laughed

...a real laugh from my soul. i have been doing a great many no's. the only one i haven't done is really date.i went on a bad one, and it served as a reminder that i need to heal, and be alone for a while. i'm terrified, and don't want to repeat the same mistake. which is good. being terrified will help me heal, and see red flags. and not ignore them. once you're in you're in. so i'd rather have my eyes wide open. i'm introverted so being alone is fine with me. as long as i keep myself busy. and i should add to the no list: do not apologize. which i did repeatedly after the breakup, and blamed myself for everything that went wrong. seriously wrong of me, he had me convinced i was to blame for his bad behaviour.

#21 Aug 22 - 6PM (Reply to #14)

Elena

Regarding Dating

Infinity, My counselor recommended that I don't date for at least a year after the divorce was final, to allow myself enough time to heal emotionally. While still wounded, we are not in our best shape to select someone new, that's why the statistics for second or third marriages show higher percentage of failure than first marriages. When someone has not allowed enough time to heal, there's a high chance that they will choose someone out of their need, instead of choosing someone because it's really the right match. So being alone for a while is a good idea!

#22 Aug 22 - 7PM (Reply to #15)

infinity (not verified)

im reading the articles and

im reading the articles and links and realize that i have never chosen wisely. and i have chosen out of need. the narcissists have the ability to pick up on my weaknesses. and i do need to strengthen myself. if they see lonely and naive, i'll be prey to them. i will take your(councelors)advice and not date for a year. it will be good to just be with me, and get to know me better.

#23 Aug 22 - 8PM (Reply to #16)

Barbara (not verified)

dating

I tell women - at LEAST 18 months of no dating because it takes at least that long to deprogram from them and no dating until One FULL year of therapy for you. Trust me - you will thank yourself. Far too many women date out of that societal programming of "gotta have a man" and to not be alone. Learn to like being alone. This whole thing with an N has probably re-triggered your PTSD. I have had PTSD since I was a child and it was never properly dealt with until after exNH and Psycho-Boy. Now, because of no treatment for so long - it's permanent but at least now I'm dealing with it. So get therapy ASAP. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

#24 Aug 24 - 8AM (Reply to #17)

dolce (not verified)

barbara

Your point about retriggering your ptsd is eye opening. I totally forgot my bad experience as a child. The rape by an off duty police officer. I bet I've had ptsd for a good long while and never knew what it was called. It explains my panic, doesnt it? And how this whole thing with my ex retriggered it. I have just started counselling yet again. I have been doing it on and off for years. I never relate what happens to my ptsd. Its like i want to block all that bad stuff out. Its like a pandoras box. I can only open that lid now and then and for small bits of time. I bet this is what sets me up for bad relationships. Thanks

#25 Aug 22 - 2PM

Rose-Marie (not verified)

Doubting myself

I am not sure if it is a normal reaction but it must be a common one as I have been thinking along the same lines today - that if I had not done what I had done, then he would not have done what he did, so if I had done something different, would it have had the same ending, or would it even not have ended at all. Deep down I think both of us know what the answer is - that it was a toxic relationship going nowhere anyway, and we both deserve better. Hope the rest of your weekend is peaceful. Rosy

#26 Aug 22 - 3PM (Reply to #8)

April (not verified)

What did I do?

I do think doubting youself is a normal reaction after brain washing and extreme manipulation. This mind trick happened to me sooo many times. I would think I had it straight in my mind and then I would begin to wonder again, "Was it all me?" Maybe if I hadn't done..., or said..., or if I had done more of...., or said more of... Oh believe me, I get that. There was one fateful thing that I used to contribute to the chain of reaction. That is the way you feel when you are abrutly left, and without an explanation too. This is there MO. But, I now know that NO MATTER WHAT, they would've left. And, furthermore, no amount of correct and good behavior would've stopped that. This is what they do, because this is who they are. I too got discarded and almost had no real inklling before. I think my low self esteem caused me to question, but also the mind games that had been played. Really, no one should feel like they will be left at any minute because of this or that. A healthy relationship has ups and downs, and is also able to withstand the mistakes and imperfections of both parties, because two people are committed. In addition, what about him? What about all the things he did. I know if you are honest with yourself, looking back, look at what he did to you. You didn't deserve. None of us are perfect, but you don't have to be to be loved and respected. That should be given freely when someone truly cares. This man did not!

#27 Aug 22 - 5PM (Reply to #9)

infinity (not verified)

a good reminder

when he ended it with me, he basically said it's because i have extreme mood swings. he made me so emotionally unstable, clingy, and beg for attention. he turned me into this, and then walked away. no closure. i am on chinese herbs now to calm me down, and while i know they are working to some degree, i should never had to have even started. they're been given by a qualified chinese herb doctor and acupuncturist. i don't know what/who i became. if i saw this pattern in anyone else, i'd tell them to run, because nobody is worth feeling like they're becoming unhinged over. i repeatedly told him that when he leaves and comes back it makes me unstable, because i don't know where i stand. and he'd kiss me and smile. until the end when he said he couldn't do this anymore. it's as if he "forgot" that i wasn't like this until he left the first time. and when he met me, i wasn't like that either. i don't have insurance, so i can't get therapy. i just want to be able to wake up, and realize how lucky i am for all the good in my life, and not cry out of desperation. i want that kind, sweet, woman back. and it terrifies me to think there is no end in sight. this site is a god-send.

#28 Aug 22 - 3PM (Reply to #2)

infinity (not verified)

i agree. it's just so hard

i agree. it's just so hard to come to terms with. i think of all the emotional pain he inflicted on me. leaving, then coming back, repeatedly. i'd tell him it makes me unstable, and clingy, and he'd just smile and kiss me. if someone honestly cared, or felt, they'd have felt horrible for putting me through this. he is now with a new woman( 2 weeks later) and apparently now in a better place emotionally. doubtful-but i'm left with feeling like he took me to the brink of sanity.

#29 Aug 22 - 5PM (Reply to #3)

Barbara (not verified)

infinity

READ: http://www.lisaescott.com/2009/08/14/normal Go to MESSAGE BOARD and go through ALL the pages. Lisa & I have loaded it with information Go to MY BLOG as Lisa & I have packed that with helpful articles. Get Lisa's Book Get therapy ASAP This takes time - he mind controlled & hypnotized you. It was HIM HIM HIM - not you. The very fact you are questioning things point to you being the healthy one! Start No Contact IMMEDIATELY! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

#30 Aug 22 - 7PM (Reply to #6)

infinity (not verified)

barbara, thank you for

barbara, thank you for reminding me it was him. thinking i should read that before i start my day for a while, so when i start over-thinking that thought will be in my mind. i don't think for one second he is questioning anything.

#31 Aug 22 - 8PM (Reply to #7)

Barbara (not verified)

Really take the time to read

Really take the time to read through the whole message board here and the 'My Blog' section before you ask a question that may already by asked & answered. You'll get your answers a lot faster if you read read read. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

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