No Kissing Rule?

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#1 Jun 21 - 9AM
Kemars1
Kemars1's picture

No Kissing Rule?

Here's something that I never understood about our physical relationship - the following are the highlights:

He claimed that he wanted to "save" kissing on the lips until we got married - as in our first kiss would be at the altar... I was fine with this, agreed when he first suggested this, and thought, "wow, he's being really honorable, saving himself, romantic, etc." I liked the thought of this - not that I didn't want to kiss him or anything, but I thought that wow, it will be all the MORE special when we finally do get to kiss." That apparently was his train of thought as well...

However, I come to find out the following throughout the progression of our relationship:

-He told me that he had been at "different levels" in past relationships.

-He told me he wasn't a virgin - that he had been with 2 women in his past.

-Apparently his previous relationship before me included kissing.

-I dragged out of him at one point the fact that he had cheated on me by kissing/making out with a few girls at a party.

-Pornography was an issue.

----

At one point, I asked him why he wanted to save kissing - his reply was, "Because kissing on the lips is different. It's very very special."

And yet, in our physical relationship, there were other inconsistencies - e.g. he claimed that with our physical part of our relationship that he wanted to stick with holding hands and cuddling, and our first time we spent together he wanted to snuggle with me on the floor, with legs entwined, he made comments on how he wanted to kiss me so bad...

He was comfortable with kissing and making out with me in other ways - neck, chin, nose, etc. etc.- basically he bent or furthered the boundaries we had both established in different ways... (And yes, I wasn't the greatest at keeping the boundaries or reminding him - I craved the attention and physical affection.)

And yet, in the midst of all this adhering to the rule of no lip kissing, he still claimed he wanted to kiss me "so bad." There were other graphic/inappropriate comments by him, and a lot of flattery by him describing in detail what he found attractive about me.

There was one time where he came down to visit me, (we had a long distance relationship) his intent was on proposing to me during this visit, and he made a comment like, "I was thinking, if we want to kiss we can - we could talk about it more." At some point in the visit I just basically told him that I think it was still something we should save - he agreed.

Honestly, recalling some of this, I am just baffled? Why would have no kissing been important at this point in his life, when clearly he had been around the block a time or 2? Was it just him trying to portray a Mr. Nice Boy image?

Any thoughts or insight, or has anyone else experienced something similar?

Jun 23 - 12AM
Suzie (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

mine too

My husband never liked to kiss. I missed kissing for years.
Jun 23 - 12AM
Suzie (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

mine too

My husband never liked to kiss. I missed kissing for years.
Jun 22 - 5PM
neveragain
neveragain's picture

Yeah...what's up with the KISSING THING?

I'm SO GLAD I found this site! So much of the situations and symptoms described here fit my ex-N to the tee. He didn't like to kiss! At first, I didn't really NOTICE it because he'd kiss me "just enough" (not deeply or with passion though but enough) so I felt like it was within the Normal Range of displaying affection. However, further into the relationship we'd go from, "Hey, do you want to have sex?" to just doing it. He'd only WANT to kiss me in the middle of it (strangely enough). I have always thought that one of the nicest things about a new relationship is making out! First you kiss sweetly, and then you kiss more and then you kiss passionately, right? It's supposed to progress from light kissing to MORE kissing....not the other way around. I guess the fact that N's dread intimacy, the no-kissing rules apply quite well. I had no idea what I was really dealing with until 3 years into it. Man, I'm I glad it's over! Now, let the healing begin. If I EVER do date again (which won't be for a LONG time), I will not be with a Non-Kisser ever again! neveragain
Jun 22 - 10PM (Reply to #10)
Kemars1
Kemars1's picture

wow...

Awesome feedback! The one good thing that came out of this is that I DIDN'T kiss a guy undeserving of my lips =P I will save the "first kiss" for an awesome guy- and it will most certainly NOT be FORCED at the altar!
Jun 23 - 12AM (Reply to #11)
neveragain
neveragain's picture

You're "GETTING IT"!

Cassia, you're doing so good right now. Don't look back and don't doubt or second-guess yourself. You're reading and learning and educating yourself about this "disorder". HA, "disorder" seems like such a benign word when you compare it to the devastation and havoc it wreaks. I'm so glad you're here and sharing your experience. We all are similar in our circumstances but we're all unique in our journey of dealing with it. It's like, we know what we're dealing with now but emotionally, we're in different and varying stages of healing. I'm 51 years old and just now realizing (thanks to the "information age" we live in) and learning about Narcissism and it's destructive force in our lives and relationships. The biggest lesson I'm learning here is that "NO CONTACT" is the only way to really escape the results of being involved with one. If you don't have children, you are SO MUCH BETTER OFF and can really and truly get free. You have totally dodged a bullet, Cassia....you're going to get stronger and be better than ever. I love kissing. I love feeling close and passionate with a man. I just have to be very, very discretionary about WHO I kiss!!!! hugs, neveragain
Jun 22 - 10PM (Reply to #9)
Kemars1
Kemars1's picture

wow...

Awesome feedback! The one good thing that came out of this is that I DIDN'T kiss a guy undeserving of my lips =P I will save the "first kiss" for an awesome guy- and it will most certainly NOT be FORCED at the altar!
Jun 22 - 6PM (Reply to #8)
finallydone
finallydone's picture

Neveragain - OMG

Yeah... I totally get what you're saying, neveragain. He kissed me at first, but I can't say he ever did it to any great degree. And somewhere along the line I noticed that he would kiss me, but pecks on the mouth sometimes when he left for a gig, and only sometimes when he got home. Somewhere else along the line I realized it was straight to the sex.... no kissing. Every once in awhile, but usually I initiated it and it was like he just went along with it. Every once in a great while... but more early on... if we had a fight... he would make a big show of sweeping me up and kissing me long and hard. But I think the operative word here is "show" I've been wondering about this for a long while... Thought maybe i had bad breath or something. But given the fact that he was a verbal abuser... he definitely would have said that was the case if I did. :) He actually never picked on my looks or anything like that... he attacked character and I think it's because he knew that was so important to me. Anyway.. the kissing thing always was weird. THe lips were never soft... just tight. I used to think, maybe he was just not a great kisser and was self conscious about it.
Jun 22 - 6PM (Reply to #6)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

kissing

When I first read about the kissing thing, I was like - OH MY! No wonder! He wasn't really into kissing, and I hated that! I even told him when we were 'reconciling' that I would like to do a lot more of it, and he said he always wanted to as well... Then he made up some lame excuse why he didn't more 'before'. But the truth was, he didn't want to. It makes perfect sense. I agree neveragain - there is no way I'd ever date anyone again who doesn't like kissing.
Jun 23 - 9PM (Reply to #7)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Kissing

I agree. I will never date anyone ever again who doesn't love to kiss. Never.
Jun 21 - 7PM
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Cassia

I've experienced this before with a guy I dated. I believe there's two things going on here: 1 - Narcissists dread intimacy and kissing is intimate. Therefore, they avoid it. 2 - It's a way they have of controlling us. Narcissists love to frustrate us sexually and this is exactly what they're doing when they refuse to kiss us on the lips. It's plain and simple - mean, sadistic, controlling behavior. It's a horrible feeling and to know they get off on frustrating us is even more maddening. I'm sorry you're going through this. Please stay strong and keep coming back!
Jun 21 - 1PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

cassia - no kissing

after about 8-9years of marriage exNH didn't want to be touched. Ns have WIERD sexual needs and/or hangups. It's NOT YOU. Get Lisa's book. Get WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS by Sandra Brown, MA Get GETTING PAST YOUR BREAKUP by Susan Elliot the more you educate yourself the more you will know its NOT YOU. I bounced up a bunch of articles for you last night on Memory Management & Emotions. You may have mild PTSD. If it keeps up PLEASE seek short term counseling. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 21 - 11AM
Carolyn
Carolyn's picture

The man is not together. He

The man is not together. He has terms and conditions that are not in the range of normal. he is dictating and controlling how a two person relationship should go and excluding you. There is something interesting that I recently found out. I live in cenral America and there is a hotel in Costa rica that caters to various sexual activities,is a casino, restaurant-all legal activities here. One of the services offered to men, all of them American, is the fantasy girlfriend. Men come from the US for 2 weeks to have an affair, on their terms, with a fantasy woman and then they spend the rest of the year writting to her, e-mailing her, and sending her money to maintain the girlfriend 'relationship'. In most cases neither party can talk to the other as the woman speaks only Spanish and the man only English. I met one of the fantasy women who had just been dumped without notice, after being a fantasy girlfriend to the same man for 4 years, the monthly money just stopped. She checked with the hotel and he came for his usual 2 weeks but wanted a younger girl. He never called this woman, gave her warning, nothing. He had offered to marry her when he came and this is not a real offer of marriage it marks the end of the relationship. She didn't know and was emotionally devastated and financially at risk-she bought into his fantasy. She was 42 and had 3 minor children by a previous marriage. this man did not care about any of her side of the relationship only his. I guess you could say 'there was no there there'. this is in the same ballpark as the no kissing rule, and this rule and that rule. Men who don't, won't, or can't understand the physical and emotional processes and systems that make a relationship work so they look for a woman they can control so the few things they are interested in are taken care of and the woman in the partnership is left confused, rejected, and hurt.
Jun 21 - 10AM
GhostBuster
GhostBuster's picture

Frustration/confusion

Cassia, my ex N fiance behaved similarly. I think it's all about frustating you and confusing you...to weaken you so when he does unleash his crazy demands (sex and otherwise), you'll crave the physical relationship with him so much that you won't see how crazy his demands are. Brainwashing. Mine wanted to do a lot of cuddling, hand holding, laying on the couch entwined, but never made a move otherwise for 6 months. I too wondered whether my ex was just such a great guy and had so much respect for me/our relationship. I was so wrong. Mine just didn't like kissing that much--maybe too much intimacy for him. He had a porn problem too (preferred to masturbate to it than sex with a live person). And when we finally did have sex, it was all about f-ing. this was one of his biggest jekyll/hyde maneuvers. Hope that helps. Stay strong.