The Narcissist and children

My xhN would hold our daughter only in public--so someone could "see" him being this great dad. The diapers, feedings, etc were my job. It wasn't until she was older (5yrs) that he starting involving her in "his" activities--skiing on the weekend, hiking--he NEVER invited me (Mom). But the day-to-day? That was my job. Pick her up, make her lunches. He treated me like a nanny. Daughter is 7 now, but I think she gets it. She gives hints like--"when am with you Mom so we can do 'this'?" because xhN will only do what he wants. Wait til she becomes a teen. Especially since I've been coaching her on standing up for her own values, ideas & opinions.

I talked at great length with his first wife about how he was with their 3 children, she said he was great with them when they were little and he could control them but as they got older with minds of their own, that all changed and he treated his youngest son very badly at times and I was instrumental in helping the EXn reconcile with that one son many years ago and never got any thanks whatsoever, just constantly being dumped over and over again.I do not think any of his children can really stomach him, with the exception of one, he has alienated so many people and has no clue at all.................I do think they like to get women pregnant, makes them feel manly I guess...

After we separated and he finally realised it was over and i would never take him back or any of his abuse - he left town!!! He has been gone for almost a year now and no contact to me or the kids! He doesnt even ring or reply to the kids phone messages. This only goes to show he always thought of us as posessions and pawns to be used and controlled. There is no love or emotion there just a big black hole.

Ug. It snowed here last night for the first time this year and my daughters and I went to the park. There was the narc, walking holding hands with not only his foster child, but the child's best friend as well. I wanted to find the child's mother and scream "Eiiiiieeeewwwww! Don't let this man near your child!" I just realized today that it's a very good thing the narc doesn't allow other kids over. What if he had two of these kids in bed with him? Chilling.

but I read the whole wanting to get a woman pregnant thing is common in borderline personality disorder. I believe my had BPD but he did not exhibit this characteristic but many of the others.

BB, I hope you don't feel silly for asking this question :) What you see below is all the people who got their ANSWER :D and it ain't pretty. Narcissists do not do ANYTHING in their lives, in terms of relationships with other people, in a normal way. For any reason. This is their illness and it is NOT curable and it does NOT change for any person, circumstance or reason. First you have to understand that this guy you speak of is NOT a normal every day kind of person. He is (by your own description) a complete fruitcake. He lifted you up and then he trashed you. The "lift up" was as much motivated by his disgusting NPD as him trashing you. I am an adult child of a NPD man. I spent the first half of my adult life (and my ENTIRE childhood) suffering the damage he did to me over and over again. Long before I was able to call myself "free" of this damage, I cut off contact with him. I don't hate him anymore, or fear him. But I protect my inner child from him, I owe that little girl that much. And she'll NEVER have to lay one eyeball on him as long as I'm in charge of my life. THIS is what Narcs do to their children, if their children get a grip and get some healing for themselves. They loathe them. They go No Contact forever, and spend lots of time and money on THERAPY. Not a life sentence, but a necessity if you are going to grow up sane. You just don't KNOW, honey. Or perhaps understand what NPD is thoroughly just yet. Keep reading, keep educating yourself. Jump in here and participate, and KEEP asking these kinds of questions, PLEASE :) . You are by far not the only one wondering what you wonder :)

It annoys me when well-meaning Christians claim that marriage&childbearing can cure people of their selfishness, as if a baby will miraculously make someone self-giving. Leo Tolstoy fathered 13 kids with Sofia... but when he was dying, they were all estranged from him except his daughter Alexandra. She was the only one at his deathbed. The rest wanted NOTHING to do with him. My mother had two Narc parents. She had to live in CONSTANT drama, my grandfather's affairs, and my grandmother's self-centeredness. She's still dealing with the fact that my grandmother never really wanted her in the first place. The ex-Psych professor would rail that "only stupid kids and dumb animals liked me." He'd always say how stupid kids were;it was one of the reasons why he discouraged me from volunteering at a nearby school (I had enough backbone&friendship to do it anyhow) Sam Vaknin notes that Ns/Ps off pawn their childrearing off onto others. The ex-P's parents moved all the way from New England to New Mexico to raise his twins. I'm so glad I did NOT get a sperm donation from the ex-P. My friends and I called his son and daughter "Luke and Leia." You know, those children of a cosmic Narc who ended up overthrowing the Empire....

My Narc, as most of you know is married and staying with his wife "he can't stand" because of his kids. He seems to treat them really well and love them. Of course, I am not there, but he is the one who drives them everywhere, takes care of all the birthday party gifts when his kids have invites, drives the kids and friends to the movies, goes to all sport games his boy is involved in, etc. I do see him favor the son more, and he does not talk about his girl much. I think she is around 14. I told him that she will get her sense of men from the way he treats her and he should be really supportive of her and tell her she's beautiful every day, etc. He has a son from his first marriage, and feels because he divorced his "big fat and crazy" ex wife that his son went down a bad road, so he says this is why he isn't leaving his wife now. He seems good to the kids, and spends most of the time out of the house so the kids don't hear the fighting between him and his wife because "he can only stand her in small amounts." Did I get fed a lot of bullshit or what? I am so romantic and empathetic towards people. I wonder how much of this was even true. They seem to have a pretty decent life compared to my life.

I agree with these ladies. Narcs are HORRIBLE for children. Thank your lucky stars that you don't have any with your narc. Your children deserve a better father than that. My xnh had two children (with another woman not me). He's made the biggest emotional messes out of both of them possible. Xnh alternates between dominating/clingy with them, and downright hostile, neglective, and abusive. Face it, narcs are all about THEM and whatever they want at the moment. Any damage or pain caused to someone else isn't even a factor for them...even with their own children. Xnh's oldest daughter is nothing short of a psychopath. She's currently on drugs and is VERY pregnant by an abusive gang member. Xhn vacillates wildly between enabling her bad behavior, "pretending" to everyone around that he's going to "rescue" her (which means that he talks a lot about her and then does absolutely nothing), and then he gets disgusted because his "talking" does nothing (duh!). He then will pretty much disown her for a while and emotionally abandon her completely. After a while he starts enabling her again, and the whole cycle starts over. Nothing EVER changes. His youngest daughter is basically a pretty good kid. She's one of those that my mother calls a "survivor child". I suspect she emotionally has done as well as she has DESPITE xnh and her upbringing. She has always just kind of withdrawn from all of xnh's and the P daughters constant drama/chaos, and just done her own thing. However, I'm sure that she bears many emotional scars below the surface from xnh just like the rest of us. Xnh is toxic. These next few months will be very telling for this youngest daughter, IMO. She is at a cross-road in her life right now. She is about to graduate from high school. Xnh habitually lays lots of guilt onto her about "leaving him all alone" (boo hoo), and wants her to live with his narc mother while she goes to college. This would mean that the narc mother and xnh would be able to dominate and control her life some more. I'm not sure that she would ever make the break into true adulthood, if she succumbs to their demands. Xnh's family is VERY enmeshed and emotionally screwed up in multiple ways. The other path, this younger daughter is considering would be to go a college in the state we live with her friends and boyfriend. She would have all kinds of state granted scholarships, if she goes this route...and she might stand a chance of starting an adult life somewhat away from xnh and his narc mother. Xnh hasn't got two pennies saved for her education, so she's pretty much either going to have to get help from her wealthy narc grandmother or take full advantage of scholarships, grants, and supporting herself. Only time will tell with her. However, as far as xnh being a good father for either one of his kids, I definitely would have to say...NOT.

I'm so sorry. I don't know if you know my story, but my narc, single and childless at fifty, took in a four-year-old foster child to his home the week we were going to get engaged. I have two children of my own who were five and eight at the time. He absolutely adored my children, especially my little one, who was the apple of his eye. The day the foster child came, he dumped them. They meant absolutely nothing to him anymore. I remember him saying, "Honey, don't you think I have enough love in my heart for more than one child?" At the time, it was an absurd question, but that's what I feared even then. That he would not want my children anymore. And I was right. He didn't want my children, didn't want to have our own children anymore at all. What he DID want, as many of these ladies have said, was to USE the child to stroke his own ego and to make himself look good to the world. He would not allow me to accompany him anywhere with his child. He wanted everyone to think he was a single parent with his orphan. He would not even let me babysit the child because the child would want to stay with me and my daughters and the narc would become insanely jealous. He does not allow other children in the house. Does not allow the child to play outside. Does not allow the child to have friends sleep over. Does not allow the child to even speak to the neighbors or their children. The narc has a web of babysitters who watch the child for free when the narc "has to work" (trans: go out socializing), so the child is either at someone else's house or out at a bar with the narc. OR as I recently discovered sleeping at another girlfriend's house while the narc goes on the prowl. I recently found out that the narc had another woman from out of town who would come in ever other weekend and rent a hotel room downtown. The narc and the child would spend the night with her regularly. The child would also spend the night with me. We, too, all slept in the same bed together on more than one occasion when the child had a bad dream. Them too, with the other woman. The deepest depths of depravity, truly, are saved for the children. When I was miscarrying his own child, he left town. Literally, I called him bleeding to take me to the hopspital or to stay with my children so I could call an ambulance. He would 't even answer. He lived next door to me, and I watched him get in the car at midnight and drive away. He came back several days later, having had no contact with me at all. He said he thought I "was kidding" about the miscarriage. Before I miscarried, he wouldn't discuss the baby with me, even though he had deliberately tried to get me pregnant. I said, "We have to discuss this. Are you going to have your own baby sleeping in a crib in my apartment kitchen while your foster child has his own bathroom in your six bedroom house?" He said, "The baby can live with me."

I can totally relate to your story; mine was just the same. Dreamed about having kids. Dreamed of making a girl pregnant. But the thing is: he already HAS a daughter. He has been telling the "I want kids" story for quite some years. And there was a girl who believed the same thing as you. That she would be able to "keep" him because of the child. Guess what happened? He made her sign a document in which she states that she would never force him to acknowledge the child. He has seen his own daughter only THREE times, and she will turn seven in January. He barely speaks to the mother of his child. Only phones her every six months. If you should ask him whether he has children, he would coldly deny it. And girl, I understand you. Even knowing this story, I really wanted to carry his baby. And I KNEW from the start that he was able to shun his own daughter. Narcs don't stay in a relation because there are children involved. They will only discard them, and make it more painfull to you. The sad thing is, mine is a teacher. He prides himself of being good with his pupils. The same man who wasn't present when his daughter went to the first grade, thinks he's very good with his own students. But it won't make him a better father. I know that reading all these awfull things doesn't make you feel better now. I'm still very early in the recovery phase, and some days, I'm really struggling. But it will get better every day. But no one here will say it's easy. Hang in there.... hugs, Anne

GOOD WITH KIDS???? Hell now, they are horrible for children!!!!Two of these men have tried to get to me via children. Guess what, it was and always will be very hard work for me to do damage control on their minds. Now, the kids are not ANYTHING like them so far, the baby remains to be seen? The NC thing takes a while. As long as your goal is to achieve it soon. If you miss him read an article on PDI's, like Ted Bundy? That'll do it sometimes? Whatever works. Hang in there and try a new distraction if reading doesn't do it?

please get this idea out of your head, they are as useless about children, it makes no diffrence to them at all... if anything having children with narc ,becomes horrendous when you split with narc[ notice i said when not if?], they either ignore children totally or use them to get back at you, and come back in and out your life when they like. you may be sad now, but be glad you didnt have children with him.... i did....yuk yuk!!!!

Let me help you cut this stinking thinking to the quick. Narcboy of mine has THREE KIDS from THREE Differient women... One was a military baby...hit and run...baby girl ended up being put up for adoption after mommie died of AIDS Baby number 2...going on 19 wants nothing to do with dad...according to dad its a "mystery"...after what I've seen, it's only logical... Baby number 3 Seven years old - still worships daddy - great supply As soon as number three starts having his own mind...will most likely walk the path of number two and be yet another "mystery" Baby number three's mom actually married the narc...she went though a lot of pain and suffering, before, during and after the marriage - of course, that isn't the way the narc told the story... Got it from her first hand, after I got burned as his rebounder... Be happy you did not have a baby, and don't think for a minute, his planting his seed somewhere will keep him grounded...just don't...it's backwoods thinking...these men are disordered. No, they aren't disorded they are A disorder! Kids for narcs are soley for image...nothing more nothing less...they are sources for supply - once the kids start to become independent - they're disposable. But keep in mind, he had very good stories to explain all of these atrocious scenarios...and to have three kids scattered all abandoned is not a great background. I'm sure he enjoyed devouring my empathetic little heart...