Mystified mum's story - Part 1

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#1 Nov 22 - 5PM
Mystified mum
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Mystified mum's story - Part 1

I'm not that person! Part 1

This story is a little different to the others as it is not my story it's Karens.
Her relationship with Tom lasted 2 years and when it ended the only way to describe her was broken. To try and make some sense and understand what had happened I started doing some research on the internet. NPD, gaslighting and hoovering, all new words to me but god I recognised them all. To understand a little of what she went through I will go back to the beginning.
Karen met him early in 2006 and when he asked her out she asked me what she should do as he had a reputation with the girls, I thought about it and told her that most young men of his age had a healthy interest in the opposite sex and what did she have to lose. Words I was to regret!
So at the age of 19 she became his girlgriend and they were blissfully happy for a few months. However I noticed that every time a message came through on his phone she would visibly flinch, I asked her what was wrong and she said all the messages were from girls asking to meet up with him. I always try to look at things from both sides so I pointed out that she also got messages from boys sometimes. She just looked at me and said "but the difference is I havent slept with them"
When he took her out on the town in the early days he would hold her hand until they arrived at his favourite haunt then he would let go. Numerous girls would come up to him and throw their arms around him and never once was she acknowedged nor did he introduce her as his girlfriend.
They went on holiday together for 2 weeks and she said that one night they met up with a group of young men and joined them for a drink. Tom sat bragging to them about all the girls he had slept with in front of Karen. Some of the boys even challenged him about saying those things in front of her but he just brushed it off. When they returned from the holiday he dropped her off at home and she wasn't to see him for the whole weekend as he had made plans which didn't include her. His reason for that was " I have just spent two weeks with you." She was so upset with him that she didn't see him until the following Friday afternoon at which time they had an argument but eventually talked and everything was ok. She was working that night but had arranged to meet him at 10pm in the bar for a drink. Karen had bought a new mobile phone and given the old one to her younger brother and that night he showed me a message that had came in the previous weekend, it was from Tom's best friend and he told her that Tom had kissed his ex girlfriend in front of him. She dumped him there and then but a few days later he got in touch with her crying and begging her to try again and that it mustn't have been a good kiss because he couldn't even remember it. So she forgave him and all was fine for a week or so.
She rang me in tears one night to say he was sat with her and his male friends and they were all talking about their ideal girl. Tom said his ideal girl would be blonde, petite and a size 8-10 everything in fact that she was not. Through the tears she asked me why he was with her if that's what he wanted.
No matter where she went people where coming up to her saying he had cheated on her. Karens way of coping with everything was to bury it into her subconscious mind as if it never happened. She seemed to change from the quiet shy 19 year old girl that she was into a clingy, needy jealous person.
One particular Thursday night we were sat in the kitchen when Tom rang her, telling her that they were going out on Saturday night into town dancing etc, she was so excited to be going out with him. Saturday night rolled around and about 7pm she took a call from him, next thing I knew she was grabbing her car keys and sobbing so hard she could barely breath and off she went. About an hour later she came back and explained that the plans for the evening were that she was actually going out with Toms mother and sister and she must have gotten it all wrong. I quietly pointed out that there was no possible way she could have gotten the arrangements wrong as I had heard the details of the plans myself . He did exactly whatever he wanted to do that night with Karen left looking like the crazy needy girlfriend.
Somehow they made it to their first year anniversary and they planned a meal and then onto the local sports club where he was going to watch a match with his mates and she was going to join his family in the other room for a drink. She rang me after the meal laughing saying she had knocked over the candle and set fire to the tablecloth, Tom was driving to the club by this time and I heard him say something and she ended the call abrubtly. It seems there had been some sort of accident on the route to the club and he had to find an alternative route, now he didnt want to miss any of the match so he got angry and started yelling at her saying it was all her fault. She was an emotional mess by the time they got there and actually jumped from the car before it had stopped. He just told her to sort herself out and come in when she had done that. The whole evening was ruined in her eyes so she just came home.
It's hard to explain the effect the whole situation was having on her, she loved him with all her heart but he was destroying her. She would come in from work and just lie on her bed, sleeping most of the time. She avoided social occaisions and started putting on weight. As soon as she saw him she went into a bad mood and said some nasty things to him which was so unlike her. It was difficult to talk to her most of the time but I asked her why she didn't just end it, she looked at me and said "I can't so I'm trying to make him finish with me" however that didn't work as he just hung in there.
In the summer of 2007 I think that deep down she realised that she needed a break from everything and asked him if he would mind if she went on holiday with her sister, he said ok and she jetted off for a two week holiday. She returned home looking relaxed and happy. Tom had either called or sent messages every day for two weeks telling her how much he loved her, he went up a little in our estimation for doing that, but I realised sometime after, that he was making sure that he still regained control of her emotionally, or am I being cynical? Ten days after Karens return he casually threw into the conversation that he was going away on a lads holiday the following week, she wasn't happy and I pointed out that she couldn't expect to have a holiday herself and not expect him to do the same but she said "the difference is I discussed it with him first, he just threw it into the conversation. Two days before the holiday he got a new mobile phone and told her it would be a few days before it was up and running. So off he went on holiday telling her he would ring her when his phone was connected. It was heartbreaking to watch her check for any messages from him day after day with absolutely no contact from him apart from the message he sent from his friends phone at the airport asking her to tell his mum that he had arrived safely. 8 days later and I admit to handling it all wrong I had an argument with her pointing out everything that was so wrong in the relationship. She lay on the floor of her bedroom and sobbed, we eventually talked like adults and she said she couldn't go on anymore and that she couldn't even send her boyfriend a message to tell him it was over. We then realised she could contact him via his friend which she did. The response was a call from Tom which she missed and surprise surprise it came from his own phone she tried calling him back but the number was still unavailable. Nothing more was heard from him and it was like a weight had lifted from her shoulders, but that was easy because she knew he was still away. I wish I could tell you that was it but of course the agony just went on and on.
On one occaision when she was in a club with him, he was talking to a guy he knew and Karen was dancing by herself not far from him. Two girls who had been sending him messages were in the club and obviously weren't happy that Karen was there and one of the them came up and was accidently on purpose pushing into her. Karen got upset and told Tom but he said it was her fault for getting upset.
Sorry it's such a long story but there are still so many incidents that happened but I will stop for now and continue in part two with the pivotal moment when she decided that it was over for good, the breakup and the aftermath.

Nov 25 - 8AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Don't beat yourself too much Mom

I posted a reponse to you further down in this tread. Another thought comes to mind. Guilt. You sound guilty to me for giving your daughter the advice which you did in the beginning. I want to say to you, don't beat yourself because you did not know better at the time. I am sure that thinking about it now you can see those early warning signs yet, at the time you were trying to see both sides. . My opinion is that most people are pretty well formed by the time they are in their late teens early 20's. This has been my experience and I have a 25 year old son and have been through the whole young boy man thing as well as years in the field. MOST men do NOT ungrow bad behavior which you see when they are these ages. This is who they are. An asshole at 19 is most likely going to be an asshole at 30, 40, 50 ect... They simply get BETTER at hiding their true selves from others. A nice sweet caring 19 year old is going to most likely be a sweet caring nice 30 year old. The personality is well established by 7 years of age. So moving forward if you learn ONE thing from this experience I hope it is this. MEN do NOT outgrow, asshole tendencies, they just turn into much better cons and manipulators. This does NOT NOT NOT get better. My son would not have cheated on his gf at 14, 16, 19 or 45. AGE has NOTHING to do with PD, it is a personality disorer and it is WHO they are. There are many men in their 40's who come across as MR. right and MR. perfect who are flaming freak shows who are experts on sucking in new supply. I wish we could teach this to people when they are 10 years old in school to avoid thousands of woman winding up with these horror shows. Also: Don't allow your guilt to keep you fixated on your daughter and what she is going through right now because guilt will taint your actions and thinking. You need to be objective here, easier said than done, MOM, I know. And, in order to help her; it is not most likely going to come from you directly at this point, the help will come from a good psycholgist and other's like us who have been their ourselves Just some more food for thought. God bless, Goldie
Nov 23 - 12PM
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

Hi Mystified Mum.......I was

Hi Mystified Mum.......I was going to ask the same question that Hunter just did. Why are you posting? Is Karen aware that you are doing so or are you secretly posting in hopes to later convince her of what she is dealing with? Again, like Hunter said, you can lead a horse to water.... I hope that Karen can realize once and for all that she is with a narc. Or at minimum, a serial dater, a cheater, and liar.....That will be for her to determine, and hopefully with the help of a therapists. Either way, whether he is a narc or not, he mistreats her and she should stay away from him. Period. Introduce her to the site, let her navigate and make the determination herself. If it comes from you, I can guarentee you, she won't accept or appreciate it the way you hope she does. Good luck, you are a good friend.
Nov 23 - 11AM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

This is a typical story here

This is a typical story here in Narcville .. Who is Karen ?? Tom is the Narc and who r u?? If this is Karen's problem.. Then Karen needs to fix it .. Not you.. I know many people in my life in a relationship with a psychopath.. But until they take charge it can't be fixed.. As they say " you can lead a horse to water.. Hunter
Nov 23 - 5PM (Reply to #2)
Mystified mum
Mystified mum's picture

Hi Hunter,I apologise I

Hi Hunter,I apologise I thought this was a site for advice and guidance and have to admit I found the tone of your reply a little patronising. As for who I am the username should answer that question. The reason I posted was not to cast a slur on his character, he is what he is but because I was and am worried about her. It's been 3 years since she found the strength to end the relationship but in all that time everything that happened to her is still bottled up.She didn't grieve for the boy that she loved, that was bottled up too. Lately things seem to be falling apart for her it's like she cannot find a balance in her life, she gets 1 thing right and everything else falls to pieces. Maybe this is the beginning of her road to recovery or the beginning of a meltdown. I am aware that no one else can do this for her so I will continue to be here for her and pick up the pieces if necessary.
Nov 23 - 7PM (Reply to #3)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

I'm sorry .. Yes.. This is a

I'm sorry .. Yes.. This is a site for support.. I'm still confused it appears you're her mother.. I'm still puzzled ... She is adult correct??? Why are you posting for her??? People who are in abusive relationships have deeper issues.. There is typically a root to the problem.. Again my heart goes out to your daughter more than you know... She needs support but her first step is to do the work for her self.. Supporting your daughter is important Maybe some family counseling is in order, since you seem very involved in this relationship... We welcome your daughter to join the forum with open arms Hunter
Nov 24 - 5PM (Reply to #4)
Mystified mum
Mystified mum's picture

I obviously didn't explain

I obviously didn't explain myself very well :) Yes at 24 she is an adult but I was not posting for her I was posting about her. She actually ended the relationship herself nearly 4 years ago and while it was upsetting to watch I believe that part of growing up is making your own mistakes and learning from them, that is what makes us stronger. She has come a long way since then on her road to recovery but still finds the whole thing difficult to talk about which I admit worries me, although out of the blue she mentioned that she was going to write it all down which is a great way to get something off your chest. If that fails I will point her in your direction x
Nov 25 - 9AM (Reply to #6)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

MM

I met my narc when I was a senior in HS.. He was the love of my life.. Like Tom to your daughter.. I was devastated .. There was no such thing as Internet and seeking a therapist was not an option.. My parents are old school.. I went back to him last year to have him almost destroy me .. If you want to help your daughter get her into a therapist as Goldie suggested... My life and relationships could have been different if I had professional help and Knowledge back then!! I'm ok now .. But as they say if I knew then what I know now.... Hunter
Nov 25 - 8AM (Reply to #5)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Your daughter is most likely suffering from PTSD

At this point. When one suffers a severe trauma and the experience goes unprocessed, they will show symptoms of PTSD. Doesn't matter how long ago it was. As you mentioned, she stuffed her feelings and still does not wish to talk about it. Classic PTSD situation. Particularly with a PD because there is so much cognative dissonance which occurs, if all this get stuffed, it has to come out somewhere. I could go on about PTSD, you will better understand this if you research this online and you will most likely see the symptoms which you are describing. The other likely senario for one who does not address their past with this is to continue to repeat the pattern if and when they get into another relationship, so this is not something which goes away on it's own. Many therapists have no clue as to sucessfully treating PTSD and therapy will be a waste of time if they do not specialize in this disorder. I would suggest a Psychologist who specifically states that this is an area of expertise with them. Most clinical therapists do not have enough training in this area to be effective. I would specifically ask for experience with a relationship with a PD, codependency, trauma related PTSD. Having them say they are good at one of these area's and not the others is NOT good enough, you need someone who is versed in all of it. Now you want some honest feedback, here goes: Sit down with you daughter and explain this to her. Ask her if she is willing to go if you find someone. Make sure her insurance will cover this and if not, be prepared to pay for it yourself before you get her hopes up, if you are unable to do this and her insurance does not cover it, then don't go there. If the PD has any addiction issue's: alcohol, drugs, porno, ect... a free support group which I find helpful is Alanon. They specialize in getting the focus back on yourself, letting go, and so on. Also, purchase Lisa's books, It's all about him and the 6 steps of recovery and give them to her. I admire your willingness to help your daughter, just continue to keep in mind as Hunter and Sparrow mentioned, that this is an inside job and it MUST come from within your daughter to want to recover and heal from this. If she shows signs of not wanting your help in leading her to solutions you must let it go for now. Try Alanon for yourself. Alanon is also for family members of these situations, however they do focus on the addiction piece so if there is none of that here, you may have trouble relating to it. They also would tell you to keep the focus on yourself and that there is little you can do to help your daughter until she is ready. I am a parent of a 25 year old and would have no trouble doing the leg work for him and presenting him with his options and then if he were to choose to say no. I would then have to let it go. Another option, tell her about the site and have her just read for now. She does not have to post if she is not ready. If you do this, you will most likely want to have your posts removed, because NOTHING pisses off a son or daugher than knowing their parents are publicly discussing their personal business. I have no problem with your doing this to a point, it's just that we dont' want to have people come on here angry that someone else is telling THEIR story. You are welcome to PM me with any additional questions or concerns you may have. I am also available for one on one sessions for you or your daughter if you feel this may be of help, you can access this service on the top of the main board here. God bless, and prayers and love sent to you while you struggle with watching your daughter in so much pain. Goldie