LOVE HURTS. If it doesn't hurt it;s NOT LOVE

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#1 Mar 31 - 5PM

Arwen

LOVE HURTS. If it doesn't hurt it;s NOT LOVE

My therapist and I have been talking a lot about how programmed, how incredibly, incredibly hard-wired I am to respond to abuse with almost a sense of comfort and a sense of 'home', because that's exactly how I was treated growing up. All of these buttons the narc pushed are the very buttons in my person that are as sensitive as an exposed root nerve in a tooth. Just so much as glance at that wire and it vibrates with longing to be abused. LOVE HURTS right? That's what I grew up with - I am GUILTY and BAD for confronting you EVEN THOUGH YOU BEAT ME, ATTACKED ME VERBALLY, WHIPPED THE BACKS OF MY LEGS WITH BELTS, SLAMMED DOORS IN MY FACE, FELL WITH DEPRESSION IN FRONT OF ME, PUT ME IN THE FLORIDA SUN TO GET A THIRD DEGREE BURN AND END UP ON ICE COILS IN THE ER WHILE YOU SLEPT ON THE BEACH, ASKED ME AT ELEVEN YEARS OLD TO GO BUY SOME POT FOR YOU, WHEELED ACROSS FOUR LANE HIGHWAYS WITH ME IN THE CAR AS YOU WITHDREW FROM PERCODAN, LET ME PICK UP A POT OF BOILING HOT WATER AT EIGHTS YEARS OLD AND DROP IT ON MY LEG SO MY SKIN COULD SPLIT STRAIGHT TO THE BONE WITH ANOTHER FOURTH DEGREE BURN, NEVER PAY TAXES SO I HAVE TO BEG THEM AT JUILLIARD TO GIVE ME FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE THAT NEEDS A PARENTS TAX RETURN, BORROW MONEY FROM CLOSE FRIENDS TO PAY YOUR PHONE BILLS FROM THE CHEATING CALLS YOU MADE TO LONG DISTANCE WOMEN, KILLED MY FAVORITE BROTHER BY SHOWING HIM THE WAY OF DRUGS SO HE COULD OD at 32, and then DIE one me from AN OD and LEAVE ME AND MY BROTHERS AND MOTHER WITH NOTHING.

But Daddy...I know you REALLY LOVED ME! Why does it hurt so much Daddy? Is it supposed to hurt this much - your love?

#2 Apr 1 - 4AM

jen79

patiencegoal

I wish I had the energy to write more. But I've been on this journey now so long, that I cannot write anymore about this. All I say is, yes, please look at your childhood and what core wounds it caused you, this will be your way to healing. Maybe you will find some spiritual approach for you, or finding god whatever. All I know is, its a long and painful journey to have a look at your depth, but its worth it. I can say, after long time, I know who I am, I love and accept myself, respect myself. And yes, I am not completely healed, but I have intregrated new positive beliefs about myself and what love is and supposed to do. And yes, its not supposed to hurt, not suppose to reject you. But you can heal that within yourself. You will have to free yourself from the outside world and the approval and the love that comes from there, or not. Good luck on your journey, and dont give up, you are on your way. Sorry, that I cannot write more, I just wanted to let you know, that you onto somthing.

#3 Apr 1 - 9PM (Reply to #29)

Arwen

Imstrong and Jen

thank you :-)

#4 Apr 1 - 4AM

ImStrong

Damn girl I want to give

Damn girl I want to give you a big hug..its ok now..your safe now

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

#5 Apr 1 - 3AM

It'sAllAboutMeNow (not verified)

My heart goes out...

My heart goes out to you and all of the other women who endured experiences like this. You are a strong and courageous women to be able to share such a deep story. I'm glad that you are hear learning and growing with us. I lost my father when I was a baby but I know he was abusive with my mother and actually I just found out today that he was abusive with my oldest brother. My mom tells me that he changed the last few years before he died for the better. The older I have gotten the more I have come to miss him but who know what life would have been like had he been around. On the other hand, I had a rough relationship with my eldes brother. He was more of a father figure to me, expecially because of the huge age difference. My exN actually reminded me of him a lot. I would even call him my brothers name when he did things that reminded me of my brother. Over the last few weeks I've wondered if maybe my brother is an N. But, he displays empathy and is a committed husband and father. Who knows, but my brother had a way of making me feel horrible and never good enough. I'm not sure he's an N but I know he had issue and I had to pay for them at times. My story doesn't even compare to what you have been through but this and your other post has opened my eyes to the possiblities that my relationship with him could very well be why I have issues with men the way I do. Thank you for sharing your story and allowing others and myself to learn and grow from it. Sending you a big hug!!!

#6 Apr 1 - 9PM (Reply to #25)

Arwen

If my story has done anything

If my story has done anything to help anyone here I am grateful I had the opportunity to share it. I am so sorry for your own abuse...my eldest brother is nine years my elder and he is a narcissist, but not to the worst degree which sounds a lot like your brother. I think there is a wide spectrum on the NPD/Pathology arch...they all have a different severity of disease I think. But, the one common thread seems to be that they all abuse the people that are closest to them.

#7 Apr 2 - 3AM (Reply to #26)

It'sAllAboutMeNow (not verified)

I might never

I might never know whether my brother truly is but I've learned how to deal with him by putting up boundaries. You're right on with the pathology arch. It only makes sense that in most cases we gravitate twoards what we're used to. My therapist exlained to me that I am so used to the turmoil that when life is calm I self sabotage unknowingly because the calm is unknown to me. That about made me cry. How awful?!?! I want nothing more to heal and rise above all of this. I pray everyone hear finds that peace and healing that is needed.

#8 Mar 31 - 7PM

Veronrose

patiencegoal

I just don't know what to say. My therapist has said the same things to me about how I respond to abuse as if it's the norm...it's what I feel comfortable with and will readily accept. I went through NOTHING compared to you but your therapist is absolutely right on the money. Thoughts like this were brought up in my therapy session: ME (to my alcoholic dad in 1976): Ok, one more bottle, but please let that be the end so you can love me. MY DAD: In Sept I will go to AA (he died in August) ---------------------------------------- 35 years later: ME(to the N): Ok, you have this woman, but please don't fall in love with her. Stay content, but leave a little wiggle room for me ok? N: That sounds all good. ------------------------------------------- Patiencegoal,I think we have to resolve our daddy issues and the hurt from the past. That's the only way we can get back our self esteem and go on without thinking that love = guilt + shame. I'm with ya girl. xoxo Veronrose

#9 Mar 31 - 7PM (Reply to #22)

Arwen

Veronrose OMG you are me

OMG. I also allowed my narc to talk to me endlessly about the OW and in fact all the other women as if I were his "friend", or even more like what you described...the hungry dog begging for just a scrap of what's left at the end of the meal. I'm crying as I write this and as I re-read your post. I always told my narc in one way or another it was ok for him to be with the OW and of course I am also married, which made it much easier for him to call me a whore despite him being the one to pursue me. He had said he wanted to marry me, take care of my children. But truthfully I would not have married him and he knows it.

#10 Apr 1 - 9AM (Reply to #23)

Veronrose

Yep, patiencegoal, me too.

Yep, patiencegoal, me too. He actually wanted to be "friends" but continued to string me along, holding the carrot in front of me so to speak. I was definitely begging for any scraps or crumbs from him, but what is worse is that I'd get so elated from any morsal he gave me. It sounds like we are both seeking love and attention from those that can't or won't give it.....trying to mend our pasts. I also read on your other posts that you have 2 boys and had a brother who passed. Me too. I have 2 boys and my older brother died when he was just 33. Big hugs to you, patiencegoal. xoxo Veronrose

#11 Mar 31 - 5PM

Goldie

So sorry you endured such horror hon

I had a very bad childhood as well and my father was a tirant and more. I know this hurts for you now to look at this and your courage is amazing. I just want to hold your hand and hug you as the woman you are now looks at that little girl and all she went through and somehow survived and is able to share this and get it out. Your insights on here the past few days are incredible and you are growing in leaps and bounds and helping us all with your honesty and willingness to look at what really happened and begin to heal from this. As hard as it is to realize that there are things in us which allowed us to get involved with these PD's, you are doing the work and my heart and prayers are with you hon, as you feel your feeling and make sense out of how this is all connected. Keep sharing and be very very gentle with yourself, and always remember, no matter how hard this gets, that you are beautiful and were an innocent child and did not deserve one bit of this from your father or the PD's in your life. You were programed and conditioned for this and the only way to stop it is to look at it face on as you are. Take your time and take breaks from this when you need to, to nurture that little girl and the woman you are today who is here sharing your story which gives me much hope for you and all of us. God bless, Goldie

#12 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #19)

Arwen

Goldie

thanks I will try to be easy on myself. It's funny that these meetings in my life with narcs seem to get me to look at these childhood traumas. I can only guess that my pain runs so deep that this is the reason I repeat the scene with one man after another.

#13 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #20)

Goldie

I came to realize that as well

My last narc was so much like my father is was freakish. They were both mechanics, packrats, rageaholics, ect... I had never met anyone so much like my father in my life and this guy triggered the daylights out of me. I often felt like I was 5 years old when I was with him and almost paralyzed to do anything about it. This was the beginning of my healing from what happened with my father. I remember questioning myself daily as to why I was putting up with all this shit as I had never put up with anything close to this since my Dad, when at that time, basically I did not have a choice. Yet here I was years and years later in what appeared to be a vortex of my past. This was horrible yet essential in my healing from my Dad. There is so much more to it all, this is enough for now. I will dialog with you about it more as you post. God bless, Goldie

#14 Mar 31 - 5PM

Steph

Wow. Good for you for getting

Wow. Good for you for getting that out. I can't even begin to imagine how horrible that all was/is for you. Sounds like you have a great therapist....opening your eyes to how you have been conditioned to put up with abuse...horrible abuse. I am so very sorry for what you have been through. Thinking of you.

#15 Mar 31 - 5PM

michele115 (not verified)

Patiencegoal

Does your therapist specialize in trauma and abuse?

#16 Mar 31 - 5PM (Reply to #16)

Arwen

My therapist

All good therapists deal with trauma and abuse. And yes she is remarkable. Thanks for listening.

#17 Mar 31 - 5PM

Arwen

there's more?

And I also loved that YOU KISSED ME ON THE LIPS WHEN YOU WERE HIGH AND STUCK YOUR HAND IN THE CRACK OF MY A-s EVERY NIGHT as I fell asleep in your bed Daddy. THAT's LOVE!!!

#18 Mar 31 - 5PM (Reply to #2)

michele115 (not verified)

(((Patiencegoal)))

I am very truly deeply sorry...

#19 Mar 31 - 5PM (Reply to #3)

Arwen

Michele...

...I am also sorry I grew up this way. I was hoping more women on these boards would share what they lived through as children so that we could talk about more pressing issues than just talking about the narcs all the time.

#20 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #14)

Goldie

Yes

Looking at the Narc is the beginning stage and as we grow and get ready to look at ourselves we do. There are many who have done a tremendous amount of work on themselves here, some are still on here and some come back from time to time to give us updates. Sometimes poking fun at the Narc is a great stress reliever for many and part of the recovery for some. Looking at ourselves, the trauma bonds, the adult child stuff, codependency, and our own issues are the key as you know. We are all at different stages of recovery and you are doing fantastic, looking at the hard stuff. God bless, Goldie

#21 Mar 31 - 5PM (Reply to #9)

Steph

Well....my childhood trauma

Well....my childhood trauma doesn't even compare to the abuse that you endured but here goes: my dad left when I was 1 years old. I met him once when I was 15.....and he was such a loser and a dead beat. I tried to keep in touch with him following.....mostly because he had a son - my half brother. Anyways, he told me that he didn't want a relationship with me because "it was too hard on him". My mother, as a single parent, did the best she could. I truly believe that. She was young when she had me- 19- so I think she was still growing up too. Actually we joke about that, I say "we grew up together" She drank and partied alot and had several boyfriends. I always felt like a burden, never a priority. I had wonderful grandparents though. Spent all my summers there and was so loved - and still am:)- by them. My mother would go to the bar. I would beg her not to go and to spend time with me instead. She would say she would be back at a certain time. I would wait and wait. One night, I waited up. I was about 12? When she came home, I bolted down the stairs and yelled at her for not being at home when she said she would. She proceeded to chase me up the stairs yelling that she was the adult and I had no right to question her. She slapped me repeatedly and called me a "little bitch". This came up with my former therapist and she told me, that it sounds like I have been "conditioned" to not "speak up" and if I did speak up " i was bad and wrong and deserved punishment". Which is what I have felt in my relationships in adulthood. And there ya have it lol

#22 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #10)

Arwen

strong my mother was also part of the equation

what a story about your mother in particular. Although my mother did not call me a bitch as a young girl, she did when I was older and had become succesful in my career and education. My mother became severely narcissistic and mentally ill as she aged and is now a 73 year-old soul-sucking drug addict always on the verge of suicide especially since the death of my brother. She never told me I was beautiful, heck, never got out of bed to take care of me. A girl? I didn't know I was a female until about age 20 and had no role model, no clue of how to be a woman. My mother has exhibited nothing but jealousy and rage towards me that I have accomplished as much as I have in my life. She has also been very loving and supportive. It is a far better relationship than what I had with my father. I am hugging your little inner girl and telling her that she can come and sleep in my house where no one will ever do anything but keep her warm, loved, fed safe and taken care of for eternity.

#23 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #11)

Steph

it took me awhile in therapy

it took me awhile in therapy to bring up my mother. Since I've been older and she has grown up....she has expressed such tremendous guilt for things that happened when I was young. At one point, my uncle threatened to take me away from her for being such a negletful parent. Anyways, I felt guilty saying I had issues with her. But, my wonderful therapist semi forced it out of me! lol Honestly, my mom is not a narc. I really do know this. She made mistakes as she was young and had her own self esteem issues ( not sure what that stemmed from cuz her relationship with her parents is phenomenal). Anyways, she has expressed such guilt and regret and I know she means it. She is an empathetic person and has been loving and accepting in my older years. She does tell me she is proud of me and she does tell me I am beautiful. I am lucky to have the family, I do....even though it wasn't always great, ya know? I am so sorry that your mother exhibits jealousy and rage towards you. That is so aweful and unfair. And again, the fact that you have endured this but still have compassion...shows how strong you are. so, I am hugging YOUR inner little girl too. And your big girl too:) and also, saying that "she can come and sleep in my house where no one will ever do anything but keep her warm, loved, fed safe and taken care of for eternity." You are an amazing woman, patiencegoal. Never forget that.

#24 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #12)

Arwen

strong

hugs to you too. My mother is a beautiful soul...and has apologized for her rage and jealousy because I confront her. She grew up with an alcoholic father and a mother who left her at six to take care of her younger siblings while she had an affair. My mother met my father at fourteen and married him at eighteen and had the five of us by the age of 28. So I have tremendous pity for her especially now that I have two boys of my own. The problems with my mother are always there but she is at least able to apologize thank G-d. It doesn't make the abuse any easier to deal with when it happens but it's better than nuttin.

#25 Mar 31 - 7PM (Reply to #13)

Steph

and receiveing a real, true,

and receiveing a real, true, meaningful, heartfelt apology is priceless. I mean if someone reaaaaaaaaaaaly feels remorese and expresses that to you, you CAN forgive because you feel validated. So, it is like you say, "better than nuttin". When someone can't do that, acknowledge their wrongs and abuse and honestly apologoze, well that's a whole new ball game. It hurts worse.

#26 Mar 31 - 5PM (Reply to #4)

michele115 (not verified)

Patiencegoal...FYI...

http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2006/12/adult-children-of-narcissistic-parents.html Sometimes it takes a few different forums to deal with all the challenges...

#27 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #8)

Susan32

Adult children of Narcs...

That would describe my mother. BOTH her parents were Narcs, and it's a challenge.

#28 Mar 31 - 6PM (Reply to #5)

Arwen

Michele thanks for the blog

thank you for the link very much

#29 Mar 31 - 8PM (Reply to #6)

michele115 (not verified)

NP

My pleasure...

#30 Apr 1 - 6PM (Reply to #7)

Redhead1

Hugs to you all!! I have

Hugs to you all!! I have cried for the little girl I was and how neglected I was. I know my acceptance of neglect and abuse started in my childhood. Thats what I know I have to fix. I read about a woman, even as a child knew she was being wronged. she Searched for years for answers and healing. The author called her a flicker wanting to be a flame. That's how I see myself a flicker, wanting to be a flame. Wanting to validate myself. I am getting there with flames to guide me. Hope this make sense.

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