Labels aside....we are all victims.....

18 posts / 0 new

#1 Sep 20 - 2PM

TNR1

Labels aside....we are all victims.....

I think as a community of victims, it is really important that we see each other not for the role we played, but for the wonderful, loving, caring people we are that were taken advantage of by a selfish, self centered man/woman who is flawed with a personality disorder. I don't care if you were married to the N, gf to the N, OW to the N, married and had an affair with the N...doesn't matter to me. You are all victims as far as I am concerned.

If I could wrap each and every single one of you with a HUG, I would!!! Because you are all worthy and all deserving of so much more than what you went or are going through.

I admire each and every single one of you for taking the time to come to this board, whether you read or post...you are strong survivors and I learn from each one of you every day!!

A HUGE HUG!!

#2 Sep 21 - 9AM

Trulybroken

Sure we are victims, but to

Sure we are victims, but to our own selves. If you live in victim role, you will never heal. No one here is a victim unless the person who victimized you held a gun to your head. We were all willing participants in the game. Even if we didn't know about all the lies, cheating etc, on some basic conscience level, we knew these N's were defective and we still stayed, went back, still contact etc. It's easier to call yourself a victim and place blame than to look at ourselves and say "what inside of me needed to find a defective person" Heal the damage in you. It doesn't happen by walking around being a victim. You're not! In no way do I want to minimalize the pain felt from these toxic people. I know better than anyone else since my last 3 VERY long term relationships all ended with him cheating and when you're lost in your pain, it surely feelings like you're a victim. But it took me lots of therapy, al anon and reading to realize, what my role was. I took responsibility and stopped being a victim.

#3 Sep 22 - 12AM (Reply to #17)

enpsychopedia r... (not verified)

Trulybroken

I had no freaking clue what was going on with him, what he was. He was very stealthy, not a bragger, appeared humble, very helpful. He stayed in persona until the day he dumped me flat! NO WARNING. He severed all communication. It nearly killed me. My husband who is a wonderful decent human being, put out way more red flags in our first year together than the narc did over the course of 2 years. Unless you have actually experienced someone with this disorder before, you're not necessarily going to realize a darned thing. I was targeted. Period. I'm not wearing what should be his shame--neither am I wallowing in self pity. There is very little damage in me to heal. I'm a decent kind loving person. I just need valium and a stiff drink on occasion. Other than that, I am totally cool!LOL

#4 Sep 21 - 9AM (Reply to #12)

TNR1

That wasn't the point....

If Narcs were upfront about who they truly are (ie being defective)...I doubt many if any of us would have gotten involved with them. Most of the time what I see is caring, loving, intelligent people coming to this site blaming themselves for the relationship when there truly is no way to have a relationship with a Narc. However, since Narcs do not reveal themselves as such until well into the relationship, I do believe that we are victims to them. We can certainly say "I was the victim to an Narc but I will not be a victim again". That is where I think we find our power to start looking inside ourselves and moving forward. Otherwise, we end up in a cycle of blaming ourselves for something that truly wasn't our fault. Also, I think painting all women who fulfilled the role of OW to a Narc with the same brush is a bit short sighted and misses the point that the common factor for all on this site is the Narc. Narcs cheat.

#5 Sep 21 - 10AM (Reply to #13)

Trulybroken

Do you really think people

Do you really think people are upfront when you meet them?! Everyone has a mask! And N's don't know they are N's so what exactly should they be upfront about. Listen, everyone has a way of surviving and N's live the only way they know how. They are truly mentally disturbed and the only way to get to know someone, is to get to know someone. If/when you realize the person you are with is mentally unstable, then you either chose to stay (like 99.9% of us did) or you're healthy enough to identify crazy and leave. Bottom line, anyone who stays and engages with an N knowing they just are not right is as sick as the N. Like I was, like you were, like all of us here are. In Al Anon they teach that the person with the addict is as sick as the addict. There is truth in that because emotionally healthy people, do not get involved nor stay with unhealthy people. Narcs cheat, so do OW! I was an OW 12 yrs ago with a married man. I knew he was married, I blamed the world like many OW here do. It took me YEARS in therapy to unravel why my esteem was so low that I engaged with a married man. And yes, any women with ANY self worth would not engage with a married man knowing he is married. That's a reality that is clouded by the fog of denial while being the OW. "Yeah but he told me he was unhappy" "yeah but he never ......" etc......every excuse in the book to take the responsibility off being an OW and say "well he must be a narc or he lied etc" It's so simple. If they are married and you engage, you're a co cheater !Face the pain and the wrath and except you caused you're own pain.....period! Claiming to be a victim when you're an OW is a sure sign that inner work needs to be done! I had no sympathy for myself when I was a co cheater with a married man and I have no sympathy for any other OW. I do however have compassion for why they are doing it. One's inner pain is so deep and great to have to lower yourself to be an OW.

#6 Sep 21 - 11AM (Reply to #15)

TNR1

I think you give Ns too much

I think you give Ns too much credit. I think you are correct that they know no other way of being in the world and it truly is up to us to recognize the disorder in them and then make our move...but when things were going well...and we can all remember that time, I don't think any of us really questioned it. It was only as the mask started to come off and they started to show their true colors that we started to see pieces of who they are. Still I think most of us tried to make it work...until the D&D occurred. I don't see that as a weakness on our part...it is very human to want to help your partner, it is very human to want your relationship to work out. I think Ns make it impossible and in the end, yes....most of us do end up leaving...eventually. Some do go back...some of us need to put our hand on the stove a few more times to finally realize that we were actually burned and there is no way to put that fire out..but I do think most of us find our way and the ones who stay...I do feel for them. It is a hard road indeed. As for OW, you are entitled to have your opinion. I don't share it. For whatever reason they are here (and yes, I am one of them), OW who are on these forums are also hurting. We did suffer the consequences from the N as the Wives and Girlfriends did. I don't differentiate between anyone on this board for that exact reason. No one is more deserving than another when it comes to the pain inflicted by an N. We may have started in different roles...but our road to recovery is the same. Healing does come from within...and I am glad that your road has led you to a greater peace. I hope that you will be able to share more from a personal perspective so others can learn from your story.

#7 Sep 21 - 11PM (Reply to #16)

Trulybroken

sure it's human, but not

sure it's human, but not healthy! I know many emotionally strong women who would not have put up with any crap my ex threw my way. I am courageous enough to admit, I WAS WEAK! When healthy people see red flags, they run. they don't do something sick and make it work. That's like saying "How can I live with cancer" You can't! You either get rid of the cancer or die from the cancer. As for OW, we'll agree to disagree, but I didn't think an active OW in denial would agree. OW are hurting by their own accord. Again, no sympathy!

#8 Sep 21 - 11AM (Reply to #14)

Goldie

I hear you Trulybroken

You are taking responsibility for what you have done and your own recovery now which is great. I would appreciate if you will continue to keep the focus on YOU and not post what others on here NEED to realize, accept, or face. This is about personal recovery and as you stated, it took you many many years to come to all of these realizations. A post which describes what YOU did not realize and what YOU realize now is far more effective and helpful for others to see their truth, than a post which tells others what they NEED to realize now. Just a little widom I learned from my therapist years ago, keep the focus on yourself and you will be a far more effective teacher. I statements as opposed to you statements. I agree with much of what you say, just not in the delivery which is hurtful to people who are not where you are at now. I'm sure you would much rather help your sisters in recovery than to offend and hurt them with your truths which may not be their truths yet, or ever for that matter. God bless, Goldie

#9 Sep 21 - 1AM

newbegginings

Ditto TRN1

Yes I agree totally....there is not gain in labelling, we are all here in the end for the same reason. We are all hurting, and we all need each others kind words, support and advice. Yes we are a community of victims, and sometimes, we may not agree with certain comments, I feel there is always a tactful way to pass you comment, without trying to hurt the other person. Judging is harsh because as another lovely lady on this forum quoted " Until you have walked a mile in someone elses moccasins" you don't know everything there is to know about their predicament. We all have a common ground, we have been hurt and broken, and taken for a big ride. Lets just help each other on those factors and not anything else. Hugs to everyone and strength to get through those awful days, when it hurts so much and everything seems pointless. That is why we come to this place ...for support. Love to all...Timtam

#10 Sep 21 - 11PM (Reply to #9)

Trulybroken

No, I am not a victim, but

No, I am not a victim, but was a willing participant in my own demise! So I do not relate to the victim role. It doesn't help me heal and keeps me in a world of illness to think that way

#11 Sep 22 - 12PM (Reply to #10)

Sunafterrain

Trulybroken

When Goldie shared with you that your comments may be hurtful to others, I see that you're not really listening. I disagree with you for the following reasons: 1. When it comes to a PD, EVERYONE in their lives is a victim, no matter the role they played and there are many, not just limited to wives or OW's. 2. Please read DR. Robert Hare's book, "Without conscience" and Sandra Brown's book "Women WHo Love Psychopaths" and then come back and give an opinion that is perhaps more in understanding where a lot of these women are, rather than expecting them to adhere to what was right for YOU. 3. Please note: ANYONE can be a "victim" of a personality disorder. Even those you claim as having "healthy boundaries". It is less likely if you have healthy boundaries, however, these people fool even professionals, as well as the legal system, etc, and NO ONE is immune. 4. Those who have been targeted by a PD ARE victims, whether you like it or not, and whether or not you agree with the circumstances to which the victim was sucked in. The reasons will be dealt with when they become SURVIVORS. But victim is an entirely valid approach when you're speaking of women/men who have been involved in pathologiccal relationships. what worked for you, may not for someone else. As you know it takes a long time to work through pain. "It doesn't help me heal and keeps me in a world of illness to think that way". I would appreciate it if you would refrain from using sentences like this in your posts, as I personally find them offensive, and as a very hurtful implication. Let people work their programs here in peace as SURVIVORS. Thank you.

#12 Sep 20 - 10PM

gettinbetter

You have been on here a long

You have been on here a long time just like me. We have seen it all. I have literally seen the same topics come up on this board over and over as the faces change. In the end its all the same. I dont know why people get so hung up on the labels especially the codependency thing. I mean if you are a codependent you know it. Its not the worst thing in the world it just means that you have some unhealthy behaviors that need to be changed. If your not then your not. I find that alot of times it is the people that really take issue with the label are the very ones that see themselves in it. In fact I was one of those people.

#13 Sep 20 - 3PM

Totally Stunned

Hugs back to you TNR1....and

Hugs back to you TNR1....and God knows that I need a hug, along with all of the other wonderful people on this forum. You know, its still all mind-blowing to me. Even though I can go NO Contact easily, I cannot erase the hurt and accept that its over. I was so stupid...I actually thought it would last forever. Oh yea...thats because he told me it would. I miss the man I fell in love with...and I cant stand the man who left me that morning at the airport. Why oh why am I having such a hard time with all of this? Why do I still need validation from this evil man? Why the hell do I miss him????? This is me, giving you a giant hug in return for all you have done on this forum.

#14 Sep 20 - 11PM (Reply to #6)

TNR1

You were not stupid....

You were human. You wanted to believe that another person was as honest about himself as you were. I think we all end up so crushed when the mask comes off and we see exactly what these Narcs really are. It's like going from a dream to a nightmare without any warning. Just remember, you are not to blame for any of this. Also, give yourself time to grieve!! It takes time to unravel from all the crazy making behavior of the Narc....and yes, missing the man (well, smoke and mirrors really) we first met is part of it. if you ever need someone to hear you vent or simply be there to hear you cry....feel free to message me privately.

#15 Sep 20 - 2PM

Sunafterrain

TNR

I think it's really important to be able to share your experience openly. I think Lisa is right about getting it all out. ALL of it. If you leave even a little, it sits and festers in your heart, which creates bitterness and anger. I think you're right, a narc is a narc, is a narc. A disorder is a disorder. Infidelity is one of the many manifestations of the disorder too. I've learned a lot from everyone here who has posted about their situations. It also helps me get perspective with regards to my experience.

#16 Sep 20 - 2PM

Winter

Thank you TNR1

A huge hug to you too! Each of us has his own baggage, personal story and experience. And we are here to go through it together and to help each other.

#17 Sep 20 - 2PM

Sunafterrain

TNR

HUGS BACK!!!

#18 Sep 21 - 10AM (Reply to #2)

lola_azul

No longer a victim

So true!! I no longer feel like the victim. I walked away from the craziness and I am taking my life back. Owning my future and taking all the actions that I need to get well and heal and be the Superfox that I have always been!! Hugs to everybody because labels aside we are wonderful people and that is a label that I want to carry forever!!!

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