STOP. And breath.
Step back.
Now tell me, how do you want your life to be in future? Why am I asking this?
Do you know what you have to let go? Not him, and not her.
You have to let go of the YOU that was betrayed, replaced, deceived, hurt. You have to let go of this victimized you, that suffering little demon in you.
What kind of woman do you want to be in future?
The answer and solution for your pain and suffer to stop is NOT lying in finding out how evil he or her is.
It is lying in the new future ans the new YOU. Do you understand what I am saying jaycee?
She is not the problem, and he is not the problem. You dont have any control over them or their life.
And you are waiting for proof that they will fail, that they are evil, that he will leave her, so she will suffer how you did.
I know I've been there where you are - for too long.
And now listen, if you continue like that, your health will break down. Thats how cancer evolves.
The only one you are torturing with this, is you.
Please, ask yourself, what can I do today, just for today to make me happy? Maybe it is just lying in bed, eating a pizza and watching a movie....please refocus yourself away from all this negativity.
I know you think it will give you relieve, or that you dont have any control over, but you do. YOu can do this.
But just to answer your question, he will suffer, she will suffer as much as you did. Cause you cant get happy with a narc.
am sure you are very aware how many women out there are after a man, it doesn't matter to them whether he sees/likes his chidren or what, they just want a man at any/all cost. I it is a sad commentary on the times we live in, have seen all too often the caddiness of women ,towards other woemn, backstabbing, gossiping, etc., where too often it is all about me and more me and to heck with you, it is really sad, that is why i am trying to move to a place where i can find kinder people who will reach other to help you if you are in need...............you do sound kind of stuck to me too, i taled to a therapist who said the bes way to move on is to look at your issues and why you put up with him, focus more on yourself and your past to forget about him..............
i am responding , but i dont think you are going to like it, you ask for advice, but no matter what advice you get, you end up talking incessantly about the ow, and husband, saying he wont move on, you are the one that wont move on,, you said to someone on here, you dont want to be without cable, heating and so on... well noone would, but sometimes you have to cut your loss,s. i didnt do without theas things for a while as i was in A WOMENS REFUGE at the time, my exh even came there and charmed them all.. at there insistence they said give him another chance, he was smiling as he took my stuff to the car, he wasent when he got me home... i would rather have been anywhere but with him... but i had no place to go..we had 3 small children 2 not even at school. he knew ,i had no family except him and kids.. when i eventually told him to get out, i didnt have a penny. i had to go to the welfare services and thats what i done.. you have loving parents and family, you have known love... so you should know who doesnt love you and he doesnt, you go on and on about her.... instead of focusing on you and your kids, and how sad they are..then. move on jaycee, you appear to take the advice you like and blank the advice you dont like,, you seem to think talking to him then you ask what did it or he mean..... you say you know what he is, then why keep asking the same thing over and over... i bet there is not one womon on this board who hasent been were you have been. but you act like its only happened to you....you are allowing it to happen b/c he pays the bills... i would rather live in a shed or tent than be dependant on him.... LET HIM GO> LET HER GO. free yourself for godsake.and if i have offended you, thats the way i see it..
used, i asked a question, not for any other reason, a question i feel is valid. I wonder this, because I know that I and all of the women i know could never have such a relationship where as not to be apart of someone else's children. I cannot fathom what could make someone want to be involved with another, knowing full well, their children will not be any part of it. whether or not he lies, the plain truth is she has never met our children and continues to want a future with him. regardless of whether or not they stay together, that doesnt matter in this question, my question was plain and simple, i wasnt asking anything but what would it be like, as i am curious to know, are there people out there who would really want something like that? the question came out from a conversation i had last night with my daughter, as she said I would love to call dad right now, but im not interested since i know hes with her, id rather wait till hes at work on monday, and i said who cares, hes your dad, and you can call him anytime you feel the need, doesnt matter where he is, and she said when hes with her, hes not my dad. so that is what got me thinking what kind of woman would want to be in that position. and as for you saying i only take the advice i like and blank the other advice you are so wrong, i take every piece of advice the women here give me with every ounce of my being, knowing no matter how i feel, they are right and i let each piece sink in bit by bit, so you are wrong, you have no right to tell me i dont take good advice, i may not always live by it, but its in my head working for the better. and as for my question, its a valid one.
Hi Jaycee-
You wrote, "i know could never have such a relationship where as not to be apart of someone else's children."
Good. That's you. That's a core belief of yours. Focus on that.
Some day, when you heal from all of this, and are ready to consider another relationship, remember this about yourself. That you do not want to be in a relationship with a man who either doesn't include you in his relationship with his children or who has children who don't want to include you.
That's the important thing for you to focus on.
Not the current narc in your life or his girlfriend. They no longer matter to you and what you want out of your future.
Start writing down in your journal some of your other core beliefs. Things that you will not settle on. And those are the things on which you should focus as you move forward.
I suspect another core belief of yours is that you won't settle for someone, anyone (either friend or romantic partner), who treats your children like crap.
morty, this asshole narc has treated our kids like crap for so long, i would kill the next man who ever tried to treat my children with anything but love and true affection. seriously, hes their father if he chooses to be a dick thats on him, but no other man would ever be allowed to treat my kids like anything less than gold and i can promise you that. it just irks me that someone would want to be in a relationship where she will never ever know his children, so maybe, shes just settling cause shes so damn desperate to have him all to herself and play family with him. im glad i know i could never be her. i wish they only difference was, i wish i was glad she had him and i didnt, i just as you know, hate that hes with her. but that feeling will fade someday and i will hopefully look back and see him for what he is and ask myself why i gave up my life for someone who is nothing but a monster.........yes, a monster........lol
You wrote, "but that feeling will fade someday and i will hopefully look back and see him for what he is and ask myself why i gave up my life for someone who is nothing but a monster........."
Good for you Jaycee!! You are starting to turn the focus on to youself. You are making excellent progress over just the past couple of days.
Please tell me - have you read any books about either NPD, Abuse, or getting out of abusive relationships? If you have, can you tell me what some of the good ones are? I'm always looking for good books to read. And if you haven't, would you like some recommendations?
You're doing a good job Jaycee.
morty, i know what he is, but yet, i still ache so badly with pain, its still so overwhelming, and yet, like i said, hes a monster, an empty shell, void of anything real, but damn it hurts, because i was deeply, madly, truly in love with him. i have been reading alot of different things online, and this one book, page here and there, called "when your lover is a liar" by susan forward it explains some of the most lethal liars and how to stop them before they ruin your life, or how to gain your life back once you have already submitted to such a liar, its ok, i guess i just want to talk right now and not feel lonely reading thats why i come here. right now, nothing feels good, nothing makes me feel better, i just want to wake up and not miss the illusion and not care hes giving her my illusion. just having a hard time everyday, but someday i will feel better, and I know God will answer my prayers, i just know he will.
Hi Jaycee,
"this one book, page here and there, called "when your lover is a liar" by susan forward it explains some of the most lethal liars and how to stop them before they ruin your life, or how to gain your life back once you have already submitted to such a liar,"
Hmm... I've never read that one. I'll have to check it out. What are some of the steps that the author suggests that you do to stop them before they ruin your life? What are some of the steps she suggests to get your life back?
Just curious - have you tried keeping a journal? One of the things I find helpful is when I read books that suggests steps - I write them down in my journal. And even if I don't do each and every step, for some reason the act of writing them down helps them sink into my brain. It also helps me stay focused on me and what I need to do.
Maybe this is something you could try? Also, if you don't want to read right now, perhaps some of the steps suggested people who resonate with you on this board may be things you could write in your journal?
I hope this suggestion helps. I'm going to start a separate topic about a boy and a pony. Please keep an eye out for it because I think it may help you.
Good luck with your progress and keeping the focus on YOU (because YOU are worth it).
(((Jaycee)))
If I may for a moment...I have read many of your posts, and some of us have tried to get "tuff" with you to bring you out of the focusing on them...which on some level, I guess is part of the obsession we all go through. Not judging here. For me, what is frustrating is witnessing your pain and really, really wanting you to at least register that there is not logic to his behavior. Your pain is valid, what you are going through is normal AND there is no timeframe on recovery; however, I would like you to think about something...
Is it possible that we have all ended up where we are because initially we put the focus on someone else rather than ourselves?
Would you be willing to admit that most of your posts are not really about your feelings but a blow by blow account of what he's doing, how he's living, who SHE is? Is that focusing on you?
On some level, and only you can answer this...is it possible that you are stuck on this loop because taking inventory of yourself is MUCH more painful, something you are too scared to examine?
I have evaluated some of my issues and I am noting that the NARC experience was so much more painful because he was the emobodimient of all the past abuse I've suffered my whole life. Right now, I am realizing that no the experience and the pain and the mourning is not so much about HIM anymore, but what the experience brought to light about myself, my whole life and the people I've allowed to abuse me because of my upbringing.
Can you focus on YOU or is the you and who you've been and what you've been through and the patterns just too painful to acknowledge and so, it is easier to focus on them? It's not about them hun, it's about you.
Maybe and I'm not an expert, you might begin to re-direct your thinking if when you have a thought about what he's done, you can express in words what you are feeling...hurt, angry resentment and why...
For example:
When Narc said I was crazy, I felt really angry because I realize that he is projecting his negativity on me. I've had a problem in the past with allowing people to project their negativity on me. I have had this problem since I was six years old, my mother suffered from some form of mental illness and I have always felt that I've had to absorb whatever negative was placed on me. I realize that perhaps that is how I ended up in this situation. I am trying to understand that this situation is not rational, and that he is an abuser; however, despite what I've gone through, I am working hard towards getting stronger so that this type of behavior does not affect me emotionally.
Take it thought by thought. Don't go through a whole summary in one posting. When you want to report the latest assault, if you have to get it on paper, put it in a file, and get it written down, this is release for you, but then on the board maybe put one paragraph down, then write down what you are analyzing about the event.
Just a suggestion. We can all give advice until the cows come home, we can give all the support too; however, someone else said it here...it seems counter-productive to continue to enable. It's just a suggestion meant to help, not to harm, you can take it or leave it...but you've got to try a different approach towards healing other than what you are doing right now...
you say you have read many of my posts but you obviously missed the ones where i speak of my childhood and growing up. and i had a great childhood and come from beautiful wonderful people, so allowing myself to be in a marriage with this narc, goes against everything ive ever seen or know from my parents, as they are still married, after fifty years, and still call each other their best friend. so no, wearing rose colored glasses and seeing only the mask for as long as I could, was on me, had nothing to do with how I was raised or that something happened when I was a kid, i was raised though, to be overly compassionate and empathetic towards my fellow man, boy hope that doesnt mean my mom has a mental illness or something. I ended up in this situation because i gave a narc (didnt even know what that meant until recently) my entire heart and soul and loved him unconditionally no matter what he did, I just wanted to see the mask, because i guess its too painful to see the monster after giving him twenty four of the best years of my life, and asked nothing in return. I dont think I have to explain why im feeling hurt angry and resentful, its obvious to the naked eye. as for my obsessing, yeah, guess its part of my process, and guess it may continue for a while, so if you are uncomfortable with it, then dont read my posts, I post here because it allows me to express what im feeling at any given moment, whether the question is valid, stupid, repetitive, or whatever. it happens to be what im feeling at the moment.
Lets try to relax for a moment ladies. You both have very valid points. You are both talking different stages of recovery and we need to be mindful of this. Frustration is expected as we are at these different stages but we should always support each other in the end as we are cut from the same cloth here.
Jaycee; we understand your stage in recovery. We have been down this road and can identify with the obsessive thoughts, CD and PTSD. We understand your need to make sense out of the senseless situation you have been through. This is an important stage and must not be over looked or down played and I dont believe for one second that Michelle is doing this. Try to understand she is making an attempt to help you see things from a different perspective that will aid in your recovery. She cares and is trying to help bring you to another future stage that will give you relief
Michelle; I understand the frustration that it brings when you can see the situation so clearly and in a different perspective and you want so much for her to see this. It is painful when you see your fellow sister in distress and feel helpless. You have great insight and wisdom and even though sometimes it seems pointless the seed you are planting is priceless to all of those in the early stages but we have to remember that they must get this out. No matter what it is very important.
Please lets be understanding and kind to one another. All we got is each other and even though we dont always see eye to eye, lets never forget that we ARE cut from the same cloth.
only one way to go...Forward (tm?)
Thanks Betty for accepting the stage I am in and understanding that you too, were there once, for im sure quite some time. I hope someday I will get to the relief stage, but right now, like you said im trying to make sense of the senseless, in other words, trying to understand all i can about people who are nothing like me, and a man who i loved from the depths of my soul, who i realized doesnt even have one of his own. Thank you Jaycee
We all accept this honey. We have all been there. Your in the right place and this clarity will come. It does take time and for now you have to continue to move forward just as you are doing. Please understand that all advice is meant out of concern and the desire to help you.
Trying to make sense will drive you to a point that you will eventually get exhausted and give it up. You have to role play all the scenarios in your head. You will look at everything he has said and has done more than once, and probably configure several rationalizations of each scenario until one is acceptable for your mind to digest. I will tell you though, after you have completed this case study in your head on this narc, you will probably come to the same theory that most do. you can not rationalize the irrational. You can not explain the unexplainable. And you can not make sense out of the senseless. Why? Because we are not wired think like a Narcissist. In order to fully grasp this disorder for all that is encompasses you would have to step into the shoes of a narc. You are not a narcissist and this is impossible.
We do our best to educate ourselves with the clinical aspect of the personality disordered but even though we have all the professional advice and clinical studies to look at for our comparisons and to validate our experience with them, We will still have days that we are completely perplexed and dumbfounded. Its is so complex that it even baffles the the doctors. Keep in mind that NPD was clinically recognized in 1980 and that was not so long ago. If i can remember my hairdo at that time then it was yesterday, trust me. So we are still in the very early stages of breaking real ground on understanding the complexity of it all. And even further out on the complexities that exist in their victims. All we know is that it does exist and it is very real.
We just dont have all the answers and i know your mind is starving for them. Just remember to give you mind a bit of a rest from it. Your brain needs a break at times to rest a recover.
only one way to go...Forward (tm?)
Thank you for saying that Michele. We all know that you have been supportive of this board and all members from day one. we respect you for all the help you have given to all of us. Were friends helping friends here and even though emotions do run high when we have a struggling member, we do understand that it is all meant to bring them to a better place. Sometimes it is the conflict here that gives them that little extra push to see the bigger picture that they needed after all .
only one way to go...Forward (tm?)
Well, maybe they do...reason being that again, from my perspective, and what I've read, the focus is supposed to be on us trying to focus on us. While obsessing comes with the territory, at a certain point, we have to try to re-direct those thoughts. If we choose not to discipline ourselves, we can have those obsessive thoughts forever. We really, really can. Sometimes, when we give into those damaging thoughts, we fall deeper and deeper into the vacuum. I am happy that you had a happy childhood. Tap into that. Provided you truly felt loved, nurtured and special...tap into that energy. I (and of course I'm no expert here) tend to think that just as much as the NARC "targets" us, there is something that we are drawn to also. Could be we fall victim to what "society" says is the norm, we should want the white picket fence, big house, 2.5 kids and the dog...and do anything and everyting to secure that yes, some may have had wonderful childhoods but despite that, never fully developed a sense of self...I believe there was something ingrained in us somewhere that when the flags arose, told us..."this is normal, this is okay - it must be me...I have to try harder." Something gave us that message. Where did that message come from? I would be a hypocrite to say that I never got a sign until one day his mask just came off and I had an epiphany. Moreover, that is not what I'm witnessing on the board. As people on various levels of their AHA moment are writing, they are beginning to see in hindsight...'somthing just wasn't quite right' or a tape starts to play where they are making sense of some of the crazy things that were said. It will take time to sort things out, and given the time, energy and emotions you have invested, I would say completely normal for it to take a considerable amount of time; however, I will say, that continuing to concern yourself with the garbage he spews, which by now, I think you can cognitively process is a heap of crap, and to continue to concern yourself with her character, which we all unaminously agree, she's a shit. And we all see you are hurting. I will share with you - the other day, I had my epiphany. I reasoned that given all I've learned on this board and elsewhere. He is a NARC. He can't be helped. Nothing I can do. He will lie. He will manipulate. He is a user. My relationsip was a fraud. I am devastated. I asked myself...do I love him still knowing all of this, what I know now? Can I accept that I've been DUPED. OUCH...that SOB!!! That piece of.....! After I went through that process, I realized, that I am not clinging to him, I am not clinging to my LOVE for him, my relationship with him, all he threw away. I realized that I don't love him and that factually, it was impossible for me to have ever LOVED him because I was living in a lie. I LIVED A LIE. Someone on the board called it: The lost years. OUCH...okay, so I've lost years. Do I want to lose more? My healing will now take some more time...OUCH. But do I want to lose another TEN thinking about him, obsessing about him, keeping tabs on him? I'm out of his mind completely, he could come here with the most sincere I love you. I know it isn't true. I know that his apology, or his AHA moment will never happen. HE IS A DEAD SOUL, A FREAK OF NATURE. So, what I am or was and I'm trying to get away from it...better word...WHAT I AM ADDICTED TO IS MY PAIN. That is what is making me obsess...my pain, and how HE caused it because it is easier to PROJECT my crap and cast blame on him. Now, you said something significant...you OWNED your choice to be with this man. That is a fantastic statement...why? Because it shows that you are starting to come out of the fog. OWNING your choice GIVES YOU POWER AND CONTROL. Now that you own this, where can you go in terms of focusing on YOU and how you are going to forgive yourself for the lost time, and starve him from taking anymore from you? That is my point. Neither one of them are concerned about you. That is the truth. They may be together 40 years. That is a possiblity. She may be just as diabolical as he is. I've seen it honey...I've seen it with my own eyes...SO...are you going to wait with baited breath waiting for their great AHA moment? No, you're not. OFF OF THEM...ONTO YOU!!
Really good points Michelle. I was there too, and I wore a few friends out (and my therapist) about the other women, what he'd done now, etc.
The thing is, it wasn't so much that I was refusing to look at myself, as that I didn't even understand that I wasn't--I'd been so programmed to always think of him, or what he was doing, etc. My self was completely enmeshed in the relationship, so that was all I could think about.
I think I was so out of control (as he was uncontrollable, of course) that I felt obsessing about it was the only control I had. So I really clung to that hard. To let go was too scary.
Anyway Jaycee, I know you're getting some tough love but it's all done out of concern for you, from people who're viewing it from a more objective point of view. I hope you'll take what's being written here to heart.
I can completely EMPATHIZE..LOL, with what you have shared, about the obsessing and not being able to see what you were doing because of the insanity of it all. Perhaps you could share what was the pivotal moment, or what helped you to let go and what got you to the AHA! moment. That might be helpful for some of us who find ourselves stuck in the loop.
Was it something you realized, something you read, something you learned or examined about yourself?
Hmmm...well my story's a little different in that I told him I was done and he *did* get help and he did stop acting out sexually...as far as I know. I had a few doubts. And I was still blind as ever to the rest of the narc stuff and since there weren't any smoking guns, I just went back into my numb routine.
And for a while there I was pretty high on "winning". Then a few years ago we were hanging out with a male friend who had seen through the ex from day one. At the end of the evening the ex grabbed me from behind, right in front of this guy, peeled off my sweater (thank god I had a tank top underneath) and said something like isn't she beautiful and was rubbing his hands all over me. I pretty much froze.
The look in this guys eyes was what did it. The ex had done things like this before but he usually would only be around people who he knew were within his web, so to speak. This guy clearly wasn't so for the first time I could really, truly see how freakin' absurd my life had become.
It was so crazy black and white, I couldn't see anything the same after that. I started detaching and left him a year later.
So it still took me time, because it felt like I was standing in the bright sun after living in a dark cave...there was an adjustment period.
I guess that's what I strive for when I post to someone who I know is still under the spell. Someone gave me my a-ha moment and it was probably the best gift I've ever received. I want everyone to have that, you know? I think all of us who now see more clearly want everyone who's struggling to have clear vision too.
If your man was a narcissist then you must know that all the time you were with him you were living a lie. How much did you believe, how much did you forgive, how much did you ignore, how many times did you make excuses for him and tell yourself that although he has problems and is a bit different you love each other and are both trying to make it work. Well as you should know by now he wasn't , never at any point were you truly loved by him, nor your kids, narcissist do not feel love as we do. They use our very real emotions to futher their need for praise and adoration.
Whatever the new woman is, comfort yourself by knowing that she is believing his lies, she thinks he loves her. She will be hurt, she will be crushed, she will one day feel just the way you do. He cannot change, he will lie to her, abuse her, attempt to drive her crazy and eventually he will be gone leaving her wondering how she could have allowed someone to waste so much of her life with pretence and lies.
You are out of it. You have a chance to move on, you and your children, to see that the love you have for each other is a pricious gift that someone like him can never hope to know or understand. He is jealous of you I guarantee
jaycee
my take on your comment Jaycee
jaycee
jaycee
Jaycee
You Couldn't
you couldnt
Jaycee
You Are Right - It Will
you are right
Jaycee
WhenYour Lover is a Liar
Jaycee
jaycee from michele
Jaycee
Lets try to relax for a
only one way to go...Forward (tm?)
lets try to relax
Jaycee
We all accept this honey.
only one way to go...Forward (tm?)
Note taken Betty
Thank you for saying that
only one way to go...Forward (tm?)
Your Posts do not make me uncomfortable
I agree
Wholeagain
Hmmm
Absolutely...Wholeagain
Another View.