Oh Jessika. I feel badly for you. The pain is horrible, I know. But seriously, the OW is either dillusional (ie, happy) or she's just sucking him dry for whatever she can get. That ain't happy...that's sick.
There's no shame in hanging out at home, watching TV, etc. I'm doing the same because it's what I feel like I need to do for myself. My dog's at my side and I'm right now typing this message to you on this board. Absolutely no shame.
They are the ones who should feel shame...shame for what he did to you, shame for all the crap he pulls on her, and she should be ashamed for putting up with all his crap and prostituting herself for a nice ride and a few baubles. Ick.
You're the genuine jewel in this twisted scenario--they're a bunch of fakes. And once you clear this fog, you'll be the one with clarity. They'll never have that. They'll continue to gallivant about town in perpetual state of dillusion. That is, if it lasts...which it likely won't.
Stay strong. Be good to yourself. And like Peru said, do something for yourself that you like but he hated. It's liberating!!
I'm sorry you're hurting, I know how triggering reminders of our ex can be.
These two are NOT happy, despite outside appearances...not in the true sense of the word. Hell, I put on a very happy face at work every day, and in front of others when deep inside, I was miserable because of my relationship.
From how you described them, they are feeding off each others' extreme shallowness. Money, status, fame is what floats their boat. You really think it's possible for people like that to have a truly meaningful relationship?
It's all fake, surface, and I doubt you really want that?? Because that's what you get with an N. A 'pretend' relationship. That's why it's easy for them to discard us when they're done.
You're still thinking in fantasy terms instead of what IS. The jealousy felt is probably your mourning for your lost dream (which really is a nightmare). We all go through that mourning phase, I let myself grieve and that helped me move forward.
I don't blame you, it takes time and work to actually get to the place where you are relieved if they've hooked someone else, which lessens the chances of them bugging you.
Still, it hurts. I prefer NOT to know what's going on with my ex because in a minor way, it's still hurtful...but only in the way of a dream that I thought was real is not. I would rather know this now, than waste anymore time in fantasy-land. That's no way to live.
One day looks and popularity fade...then what's left? An old, bitter person who has nothing but an empty life to look back on. To me, that's very frightening, and I wouldn't want to trade places with people as you've described.
It's just going to take some time for you to realize all of this...for right now, stay busy, keep venting, keep up therapy, and spoil yourself rotten.
They were together for 3 yrs straight. However, he said he cheated a lot bc he wasn't in love with her(it was her fault-- ugh). Sometimes he would tell her about the other women and sometimes he would not. Given the extremely extravagant lifestyle he gave her... she stayed. For the times the he cheated and she knew, she would make him buy her expensive gifts... cars, diamond rings, etc..
They broke up... however given that he is an N he went back to her and slept with her. She got pregnant. He said he wanted her to get an abortion and offered an extremely expensive car as an insentive. She declined. He said he was angry, bc he knew she was keeping the baby in order to get the tons of money that comes from childsupprt from him.
During her 3rd month of pregnancy he met ME on Match.com (I had NO idea he had a pregnant girlfriend). We went on a couple of dates and i didnt like him so I didn't go out with him until several months later after being begged and bombarded with emails (at this time she was 6 months pregnant). Again... I thought he was very arrogant, so I didn't go out with him anymore after that date.
He supposedly got back with her. She had the baby. He determined that she was a bad mom, so he took the baby, got a nanny and paid HER an insane amount of money per month to keep the baby.
Fast forward 2 yrs later and he was back after me again. Emailing, calling, texting, how he couldn't get me out of his mind. I didn't want much to do with him. I was focused on another man... an N. That N D and D me and there was N2 to help me and support me. He worked me over for 7 months. Behaved much much nicer than the man i knew from my prior dates with him 2 yrs earlier.
Somehow he convinced me to be with him. One day he sent me an email telling me he has a daughter. I was stunned. I then started asking about his ex and that is when I found out about all the money and gifts he gives her monthly to keep control of the daughter. I broke up with him. He manipulated me back.
Lots of really bad stuff happened between the two of them.. with her ending up getting arrested. I was confused and hurt during this time- bc it was clear that they were arguing and intense with each other and he was now with ME.
Even though he had her arrested he D&D me and went back to her. At the time I didn't know he went back to her (I know that info now). Had I known, I wouldn't have taken him back when he came crying back.
From the info I know now ... he went back and forth betwn the two of us... until my final D&D in May. Now they are back together.
... that's all :-(
What a mess .
This man is a stupid narc who thinks he can just buy what he wants .Rich TWAT. Most rich people only get rich by exployting others so that is another reason to hate him .
There is nothing wrong with sitting with the tv on and writing post on here on a Saturday night , dont be hard on yourself ,thats what im doing . I have some candles on , x factor is on the telly (just like American idol) i love this show and im not ashamed, my ex laughed at me for liking this and i take great pleasure watching it with out feeling im doing something wrong.I have my dog on the sofa too another thing he hated HA,And i have an Indian meal in the fridge he hates spicy food. Bring it on baby !
Peace out Jessika , i know how sad you feel ,I cryed for 2 straight hours this morning and its been 5 months . Thinking of you , Big Love
Peru x
you are sooooo right. However, why don't i feel it and really believe it. It takes so much less to make them happy. They love the drama, money, status, and public adulation... they are getting all of that. Hence- they're happy.
IDK why that matters to me.
Jessika and all other recovering,,get to the place where you see them as trash.
Whatever it takes.
When you finally see that they are not the person you thought they were, you will be grateful to be free of their negative burden.
How long did it take u to get to where ur at? I found out about his new gf (now ex gf) a yr ago this month. The beginning was horrible. Now it makes my skin crawl to hear his voice. What a worthless poor excuse for a man (& father)!!!! I like hating him more than i liked missing him...
How long did it take u to get to where ur at? I found out about his new gf (now ex gf) a yr ago this month. The beginning was horrible. Now it makes my skin crawl to hear his voice. What a worthless poor excuse for a man (& father)!!!!
I know, it's always easier said than done! That's why we hang out here, and do other things for all the support we can soak up. You may need to step up your therapy in the meantime. There is no short-cut with this, it's true what they say...the only way around is THROUGH. I seriously wanted to just be put into a coma until my initial pain subsided. It DOES get better, I promise. In bad times, I tried to mentally 'place' myself still in a relationship with my ex.
It ultimately did not feel right, and felt very dead-end. I don't miss feeling like an emotional slave!
If you are able to do this, I know Sandra Brown has retreat workshops...that might be really good for you to help with your deprogramming. Barbara might know more about them, so you might want to ask her when she's around next time:
http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/retreats-and-28-day-intensives
how's therapy going Jessika?
and if you believe they are "happy" or that constitutes happiness - you have a lot of work to do on you.
READ: http://www.geocities.com/andifekete/nicer.html
They sound like a couple of phony creeps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Pathologicals only discard the best, most precious of gems of people... not the worst. They despise the strong, principled, decent & honest. Their discarding of you is then their highest commendation of your worth!" - A.V.
I am reading and rereading your responses. Wanting it to soak in my thick head.
Barbara you touched on something that I didn't come right out and say... but WHAT does it make ME if I am the one envying such shallow people. I want all that she has... the money, the gorgeous baby... not neceassarily him... but definitely the baby and the security. Those are the reasons I most envy her.
So what in the hell does that say about me. :-(
Perhaps I have some shallow portions. IDK. My therapist says I feel all the envy about her security (financial) bc I grew up without parents (dad never acknowleded me bc he cheated on his wife and got my mom pregnant by accident. My mom is a very low functioning narc... she acts like a 5 yr old and was never able to have a job- so we grew up on welfare and I took lots of verbal/emotional and at times physical abuse from her. Certainly a lot of neglect. During my adulthood, since I am a doctor and she uses me, she now treats me with some -fake- kindness. However I know it is only bc I pay for her place/food/utilities/personal needs- everything!!).
I'm trying to remind myself that I am not that poor little helpless girl anymore. But, I still envy women who are taken care of financially the way the OW is.... although I hated narc, I felt financially 'safe.' Now I am not.
I'm such a mess right now. WTF!
You envy the "security?" Security? He was on Match meeting you and how many others during her pregnancy. Is that security? He told her to get an ABORTION. Is that security? HE TOOK THE BABY AWAY FROM HER after that!!!!! Jessika...HE TOOK THE BABY AWAY FROM HER. HE TOOK. THE BABY. AWAY. Is THAT security??
have you thought about the fact that MAYBE he got wind of the fact that she was going to be profiled in a magazine, and that precipitated this glorious reunion? ;)
Hey Betteroff
I was referring to the financial security. If ever I had a month were my patient load was low, he wrote me a check for 15K to cover it. In nooooo way did I mean relationship security- he was only good financially. He was destroying me otherwise... simply destroying me.
She fought him for custody and now she has the baby 3 days a week- along with huge child support.
Hmmm - perhaps he did hear she was doing this magazine cover... never thought about that.
Gosh... I sound so ridiculous. I was paying far too much for financial support. SHE is paying too much for financial support. It would have killed me if he would have taken my baby away.
security? are you kidding?
So what in the hell does that say about me. :-(
It says you have been SERIOUSLY BRAINWASHED
talk to your therapist IMMEDIATELY about this. IMMEDIATELY
You may need medication.
It says you were mind controlled and hypnotized.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Pathologicals only discard the best, most precious of gems of people... not the worst. They despise the strong, principled, decent & honest. Their discarding of you is then their highest commendation of your worth!" - A.V.
After your last post I wanted to bring up the word jealousy, but I didnt want to be rude. But like you say, thats exactly what you are feeling.
What is jealousy? Just went to a seminar about fear and stress in women. The speaker said jealousy is when you fear you may never have what you want. It is fear based. Fear. So come from a different angle here. Can you give to yourself things that will make you feel content?
I think it's also a not knowing about your future. You want to know that you will be OK.
You imagine they are so happy but if you look at their past, you can see there is no comfort or security there. And him? Who would want that? Do you want the things or would you like to keep your integrity?
Yes Jessika,,,I think you desire the connection, the closeness, the security. That is not what the man you were dating is about.
Hard to believe. I hope you get to the place where you can see that and be free.
Sad thing is you picked up on this early on in your relationship with him, chose to ignore it (like we all do) and then got fed into his trap.
The trap, designed to mislead.
It is a terrible thing to realize that one has been so intentionally mislead, and literally hynotized to follow and cling on each and every word the N says.
It is a hell. It is hard to get out.
Once you realize all he gave you was negativety (screw the checks you can make that if you want).
You sound like an intelligent, compassionate woman.
The ex N capilazed on this.
You are worth way more than what he gave you, there is no price you can put on an honest loving relationship.
There is only a price tag you can put on jealousy.
Look beyond
thanks ladies... I appreciate the honest exchange. That was so so helpful... it kinda smacked my true values in my face. Values I used to believe SO strongly in-- character above material things.... however now I have his values mixed in there. So I am envying their...well her fame, his money... however those were things that meant NOTHING to me when I met him.
I never looked at jealousy as being fear based. Very interesting...I will definitely think more about that. Yes I am frightened... I see her with that beautiful baby and that is the thing i want most in this world.... however the way it looks now that will not happen. Jealous that the world is believing the lie that she is sweet, kind, hard working, a good mother, and phenomenal person.
Jealous, angry, anxious, depressed....
"Only when the poor stop serving the rich will the rich realise they cant eat money "
Do you know how many people have to suffer in this world directly or indirectly so a handfull of people can afford a 4000 foot play room for a baby ?Billions , thats how many . So the top five % of this world can live with out money worrys the rest of the 95% have to work long hours so they can just afford to eat , children have to work instead of going to school ,in many parts of the world there is no work so people starve , no clean drinking water no medication for simlpy cured illnesses .There are millions of people killed each year in wars for control over this money thing .
Just look at America the richest country in the world where educated people are forced to live in their cars with out any free health care .
Try this simple experement with a child .Tell a child that they have so much food in the cupbord they wont be able to eat it all and it will rot away. sadly over the road is a family who dont have enough food to eat and they might die of hunger ,then ask the child what they would do " do you throw the food in the garbage or do they give the food to the family over the road "
You know the answer the child will give .
Ok rant over.
Peru x
focused on what is important and how awful his behavior is and how confused I have become with one foot in his values and the other one in my old values.
Envying something I never would have respected and would have found ridiculous and selfish before i met him (i.e., a new mediterranean home as a baby's playroom)- howe disgusting.
When I was in undergraduate school I wrote a paper on the effect of materialism on society.... the type of people who are materialistic and the psychological needs that are left unmet and often replaced with material 'things.'
I don't have that paper anymore of course. But as basic as this may sound I need to go online and read about the damage of that level of materialism. It will help me to get a part of myself back that I lost. This relationship damaged my soul and my values.
I used to be the girl who frowned upon people who spent money so selfishly (what BABY needs her own house). He couldve given that money to a charity.... helped several poor families)... instead he choses to show others what he has and everything is done in over excess.
So... thanks eveyone for helping me to see how off base I had become from my time with him. I knew he was awful to me in all the ways that Narcs are... however until this weekend I didnt realize how brainwashed I was and felt that I needed his level of money to feel safe.
Thank you
These relationships do JUST THAT. I have to stop and remind myself of the values I once had and what I was reduced to. Why I accepted a man that was beneath my moral values, and ethical as well. It takes time to return to what we once knew and believed in, we are too impressed by their props and what everything APPEARS to be, most of their lives are only illusions to fool others, if you scratch below the surface of that and what is indicative of their disorder you will slowly see that its just NOT POSSIBLE to believe what you are seeing, it goes against all the medical research of what they truly are, no relationship makes them happy as we know it, they need relationships for other reasons than we do, and ITS NOT FOR LOVE.
I know how hurt you are, I kind of went through the same thing, with mine leaving his pictures out of he and his GF on a nice vacation, slaps you in the face, stabs you in the heart to see it, while he was in the shower I was sitting on his bed staring at the picture crying, what the hell, fine so what if he could love and loves her, let her have him, he still is a liar, cheat, rapist, con man let her have the whole ugly package, I WILL NEVER NEVER play second to anyone in my life, I COME FIRST and if I am not good enough in your eyes to come first, THEN GO TO HELL, play your sick games with someone else. In this huge world I could have someone that would just adore me and want ONLY ME in every aspect and I wont settle for anything less because I DESERVE and YOU DESERVE IT, they werent worthy of anything with us and we just have to heal and see that, in time we will.
That's right Cynthia- we do deseve better... all of us!
It would be great if they just stuck to seeking out cold, arrogant, bitchy, irritable women. I have a friend like that (now EX friend since i can't deal with her drama and attention seeking and slutty behavior any longer).
A girl like that would be perfect for them. But NO.... they come after women who are fun loving, happy, joyous accomplished, intelligent, with TONS of emotional depth, compassion, love, and understanding who would never intentionally hurt another. Hmmmm actually his current gf/ 'baby's mama' is actually a big time DIVA... so he does have a narc girlfriend, however by his own admission (he used to laugh about it) he told me he "constantly cheated" on her. So I guess the 'cover girl' is getting the same as I got. I mean... he even dated me while she was pregnant- how dispicable!
He always had to supplement the diva with lots of loving girls... the diva didn't care, as she was getting nearly 50 grand a month in shopping money! He used to get angry with me bc he couldn't buy his way out of bad behavior. Once (after he raged at me and I pulled away big time) he said, "It's hard with you... I can't just take you to the jewlery store." I was like... how about treating me well... how about apologizing!! I don't want STUFF to make up for your mean behavior. He would never apologize... just went away for a week or two, then came back with a sad voice of "i miss you so much Jess... why are you being so mean to me?"
With HER... it was "here- take my credit card; I won't be over to see you tonight I have a date" and then he would go mess around. One time he even showed her the girl he wanted from Match.com (I don't think it was me, bc it was in 2004 and he and i met in 2006). So anyway he told her he really wanted that girl and so she told him that he could mess around with the girl if he got her breast implants. He got her the implants and got to play around with the other girl.
What a sick relationship they have. I have no idea logically why I would be envying them... envying her beauty... or angry that the world idealizes this woman. I SO wish the public knew what i know about her. However, they are looking at that magazine cover and think she is so wonderful and her life is wonderful and they want to be her. She is such a self promoting DIVA. She thinks her purpose in this world is to bring happiness by allowing others to look at her. She always acts like she is really deep and in touch with her spiritual side.... ugh!
She thinks some of the lucky ones ... like her were put on this earth to inspire others with her beauty.... (blah). I happen to know that she has had 2 boob jobs, liposuction, rhinoplasty, tummy tuck, and tons of veneers (talk about build a woman-- all courtesy of her rich Narc)... however she wants the world to believe she is naturally beautiful! ENough of that rant. I am obviously still jealous of her and i need to deal with those feelings and put them to rest.
--- Cynthia you sound like such a sweet and amazing woman- certainly shouldn't play second to anyone!!!
Ughhh having to see pics of he and his gf ... left out for you to see. Just AWFUL!!!! He didn't care a bit how that made you feel. I wish I could kick him in the B***S for you!
Mine hid EVERYTHING! Even when I found something (my instincts told me to snoop and man were they confirmed) he would LIE and tell me that what I found was old and way before I was with him. Begged me to trust him and expressed all his LOVE-- blah!
When we were little girls we never said- "I want my husband (boyfriend) to be a lying, immoral, cheating, sick snake in the grass who never will focus on me or love me"... mmmmm can't wait for that guy.
However, my emotions (thanks to his pathology) have got me yearning for just such a guy. Me, as a little girl would be looking at me as an adult and thinking, ???HUH????..... where's that nice, fun, happy guy I was asking for? Why are you wasting time on this freak of nature. LOL!
Ugh... you know me. I'll go on ranting all day! (Sorry)
BTW- thanks Barbara for the suggestions. Yep, I am still in therapy and looking into a intense therapy situation- stay for a few days where I go and deprogram myself... get therapy. Never ever thought it would be ME in that situation. However gotta do what I gotta do. I'll take a few days away from work, however I have to do something more intense to help me along. I'm so stuck in my healing and seemingly moving backwards.
Take care,
Jessika
2 boob jobs, liposuction, rhinoplasty, tummy tuck, and tons of veneers
OH GOD, one of those types of women, her focus is on just outer beauty and what she looks like, but I bet she is a MESS inside Jessika. Unless I was flat as a man I WOULD NEVER NEVER have a boob job, I would only do it if I looked deformed or something. But just for the sake of going from a B to a D, NO WAY, who cares, who REALLY cares, she is fixing up her body so she can keep her Narcisstic man, she needs to work on her brain instead of what she looks like, There you go that should tell you, take a sigh Jessika she is FAKE like he is you dont want to be part of that world just stay your REAL TRUE SELF in life and you will be alot happier and find that peace. I never understood that either why they have to prey on the nice, loving, decent women, and they always destroy them in the end. They need to stick to their hookers and heartless bitches, but think about it they dont really want someone that is heartless as they are, they want to suck good people dry for what they dont have inside of them. We are probably like a breath of fresh air to them, they LOVE our innocence. Giving someone a credit card to go buy something for themselves for their bad behavior is not love, that is bribary, that is being a slave to someone else to keep under their control, she is selling her soul to the devil so to speak and she will pay a high price for it too in the end. It all sounds like PHONY LAND to me Jessika, nothing to be jealous of because nothing about it is real and genuine, fake boobs, fake this, fake that, fake love, that is not even what you call a relationship, is that what you want? I KNOW YOU DONT, she isnt his OW, she is just someone that makes him look good because he is so fricking empty inside himself he uses her as a trophy to impress others, ugh, AND yuck, AND puke, SHE IS A STEPFORD WIFE, while he runs around screwing other women, that is a SICK SICK SICK relationship, immoral, and unethical, You have to find a way to extract your mind from all of it, just as I do with mine. Just bring your mind back to my dad sitting on the front porch watching the sunset with peace in his heart and mind I know that may seem boring but it leads to greater happiness from within. LET IT GO, LET HIM GO and I know we will find a greater purpose and life than what they could ever have given us. I am going to have a piece of chocolate cake now, that is my sex for the day, ha ha
the baby is the spitting image of him and he is IN LOVE with that kid. Even bought a beautiful mediterranean 4000sq ft home next door to his that he uses as her "play room." He is emeshed with that kid. In my opinion a little inappropriate too, as he used to love to tell me the story of her reaction the first time his little girl saw his penis (while in the bathroom). We actually argued about it... he thought I was overreacting when I told him telling me the daughter/penis story for the 3rd time just felt creepy and to cut it out!!
Anyway.. the mother had to fight HIM for joint custody, as prior to ME coming on the scene, the child lived with him 6 days/wk!
Now, with the custody arrangement he has the child 4 days a week and the mother has the child 3 days/wk.
He cheated throughout their relationship. At one point I replaced her for over a year.
IDK if he moved her in or not.
I don't want to know.
Ewww it's just crazy, Amazed.
Jess
Is that what you want,,All that grandiose stuff, the 4000 sq foot place for the child, says look at this,, don't mind that I will not be there when I am suppose to be a good father to you'
He plays by his own rules.
To him, money rules.
Its a situation he will always win.
He has it set up that way.
He always wins.
You know what that means?
He expects someone else to lose.
You can't get in a power struggle or relatioship with these people, (including the mother of his child!) because they always win...their rules, their game..there is no other opponent.
How can you expect to play or have a relationshipe with someone when they make all the rules!! They will sabotage you and their entire family.
I hope you do not envy the status, because that is not what you really want.
You want love, connection, power and passion.
That will not come from a N.
They feign passion, when in essence, they are just venting or getting their rocks off on you, it is a one way street.
Do you remember when you had kinda strange feelings about this guy?
Tap into that, explore that, it will reveal alot,,let me know,, because I think that is important here to your gettin' a great handle on this here...and feeling great that you are out of his long pursuit and trap,,, ya better arm yourself,,cause if he comes back (whoa) and approaches you again, you gotta know how you handle it...
Whoa,,so he is the kinda guy that will devalue the woman in his life....big house, flaunting his power,,leaving others destitute and without,,,what is up with that,,,did he have a family backgound of some sort?
OW is dillusional and/or user too
jessika
Question , did he leave her
He left her several times
What a mess . This man is a
After all that
Logically Quietude
Get to this place
Amazed
Amazed
jessika
phony
I am reading and rereading
You envy the "security?"
Hey BetteroffI was
what it says
Jessika
What you Envy
hmmmm
Wait until she has to raise that baby alone
Money
Your "rant"
This relationship damaged my soul and my values.
Thanks Cynthia!
your very welcome
That's right Cynthia- we do deseve better... all of us!
What a sick relationship they have
LOL
All that is a sign he will not be there Jess
Taking sides!! It's His child,,not thiers!