Is it possible to stay in a relationship with a Narc?

Hi Lisa, I think I know where you are coming from on this. When you think back to all the fun times that you had with him or when he swept you off your feet or all the amazing sex that you had etc. it is easy to start asking yourself whether you could put up with his faults to get the good bits. But I think this would be very risky to your long-term health and happiness. It might be alright while life is going well and you're feeling strong, but what about when times are tough and you are in need of love and support. You won't get any. In the relationship with my ex, the biggest shock of all was the way he behaved when I was went through a period of ill health. He not only refused to take me to the doctor (because he didn't have time) and left me to fend for myself, he treated me with absolute contempt. He was angry with me because I wasn't giving him all the attention, admiration and adoration that he wanted and he showed his displeasure overtly. In addition, when I begged for his help his behavour showed that, not only did he think I was a total inconveniance to him but also inadequate and weak for "allowing" myself to become ill and for making such a "big deal" about it. It's easier to imagine that you can put up with his bad points when you're feeling strong and relatively in control, but imagine how vulnerable you would be if you needed his help in a situation like this. I would advise anyone not to put themselves in this position if it is at all avoidable for the sake of your own well-being. xxx

I've found myself thinking along these lines recently myself. Since my therapist came up with a theory that my narc is simply terrified of being emotionally vulnerable, I have to admit I've embraced the theory. It seems more reasonable that he is less the evil psycho who wants to hurt me for his own amusement, and more the misunderstood narc who has to be top dog in all situations for fear of being abused himself (obviously this is MY narc - your abused-mileage may vary). It had me thinking that just maybe it might be possible, if I could explain this to him, to get him to behave better. It was about this point I began to realise a thought had crept in under my radar - that I was thinking he would decide I was "the one" who understood him and could help him, and so I would be REWARDED by a change in behaviour. And let's face it, that is so much BULLSHIT. I've never seen any evidence that anyone trying to do that sort of thing with him gets anything other than more abuse. I began to realise that if I wanted to live like that, I would have to put up with his constant little put-downs, his emotional hot-cold-hot-cold behaviour, and that EVERYTHING would be a constant power struggle to stop him trying to better me at everything - either that or I could just lie down and let him walk all over me and learn to let it wash off me like water off a duck's back. The problem with that second approach is that it might work on a good day, but what about on a bad day? The instant I'm having a hard time of it and I'm expected to deal with his I-can't-be-second-best behaviour, he would just pull me down with him. I already had a childhood at the hands of a narc and I see the damage he did. Hell, I'm staying at my mother's house right now and see the damage he's STILL doing to her, and it's the same crap - Constant power struggles, emotional coldness, her wishing she'd never married him, the whole works. I realised in the end that if I ended up in ANY form of relationship with The Ice Queen of Narcnia, that I would end up feeling like my mother in the long term. To use an analogy, it's like the difference between a predatory animal that wants to kill you and eat you, and a terrified normally-docile animal that simply lashes out in fear. It may be easy to feel more, emotionally, for the terrified animal, but the end result is the same: Defend yourself, because you're going to get hurt. I can't fix him. He's at least in his mid-30s, by now he's been through this for YEARS. I can't undo that. I certainly can't help him if he isn't willing to help himself. So instead I have to just tell him "Fuck you" to push him away and then run like hell to get away from him before he drags me down with him.

Addiction doesn't always look the same. Even hidden under the guise of play or money, the continued contact with someone who is bad for you, is unhealthy. Having to shut down a part of yourself (emotions) to be around someone to get what you need or desire is not healthy. I appreciate gettingbetter's response. It makes so much sense. It's a common problem for all of us who are dealing with these psychos. I also think that to have someone come into your life who is exactly what you need or want can happen. But only when the space is open for them to do so. By randomly filling that space wih the N, it doesn't give you the chance to find/meet that healthy guy. Just a thought.

Lisa- I can relate to yourN....mine was sorta similar...wanted to make me happy...laugh etc....would like doing things for me. He felt he failed if he couldnt help improve my life. the thing is with this N... because he is what he is..everything is taken so personally because of his distorted view of self. he also often misread things I would say...or was unable to see the meaning behind why I became upset...he would see it as an attack on him and his failing me. which would cause him to rage. the more I understood this the better we did get along... but it was such a drastic shift from what it once was ....tough for me to adapt.. but what we both realized was we were eachothers escapes from our own realities.... and we couldnt stay in that world any longer. My N was addicted to me, no doubt about it. and I did become addicted to him as well.... more like swept up...not all of it bad though. I think the only way you could stay in a relationship with one...is if you were possibly the OW and more detached...laid back and the go with the flow type.. and maybe saw the N as a filler until you found someone more suitable for you. the problem is staying stuck in the non reality that the N experience brings with it. I do think the raging is less...the less interaction you can have with them.

There's no good that can come from being in contact with a narc. They are robots only programmed to think or care for themselves. I will never contact my narc again. I don't feel like being abused anymore. I'm over that self inflicting pain I was obviously feeling I deserved. It's bullshit. They're is no cure. You can't love th so much they will change either. You want to give up more of your self confidence, self worth, dignity then be friends. He will suck you dry any way he can. Sorry but true. They won't change for anyone.

Yeah, sure, of course you can stay in a relationship with a narc, as long as you're willing to lower your standards, debase yourself, give up any idea of personal happiness, etc. I think my ex wouldn't have broken up with me if I had just been and done everything he wanted. But that's just not me. I did the things I wanted to do on occasion, and the things I had to do, all with trepidation as to what effect it would have on him, and it pissed him off. Now I wish I had lived life more fully and been more ME so that he would have dumped me permanently a lot earlier. But maybe then the lesson wouldn't have sunk in as deep as it did. Now I'll never forget it again.

Oh lord, dont let yourself think this way. Please. I thought like that and soon after we moved in together he got physical. the mind games were worse than ever. he was crazier than ever. Is the money and other "nice things" about him really worth it in exchange for your soul and sense of self?? You want to know where thinking that way got me? 3 suicide attempts while the narc was laughing at me the whole time. It was awful and the worst part of my life. I never want anybody to be in that position...it is a miserable and lonely place. These men will destroy you wether you pretend it doesnt bother you or not. As long as you are around him you WILL CARE what he does, a woman doesnt have an easy time being detatched toward someone she cares for as long as she has to see them everyday. Just do yourself a favor and GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!! Youll make room in your life for a man who will treat you the way you really deserve. So why settle? =)

That you would ask this question. It speaks of serious addiction and codependency along with complete abandonment of yourself. I know this because I have a severe addiction to my narc. I have gone cold turkey on contacting or snooping of any kind. My therapist sat me down and said I was dealing with addiction and its a serious matter. Please read up on addictive psychopathic bonds, love addicts and codependency. You need to get hold of this it will only get worse. I know it for a fact. I'm not criticizing you for asking the question but question is indicative of abandmonent of self and complete enmeshment which are at the core of addiction. Start reading up on overcoming addiction whether its drugs, sex, or a person addiction is addiction and the cycle is always the same whether its drugs or people it always ends in complete abandonment of self

According to Sam Vaknin, the only way one can make it last with a Narc/Psych is to be- 1)A doormat,as in codependent 2)A saint 3)Another Narc He's written about how somatic&cerebral Narcs are complementary, such as how a cerebral Narc is best paired with a somatic Narc. It also explains why the ex-Psych prof would constantly accuse me of being a Narc. I think he HONESTLY wanted another Narc as a partner. In a perverse way, it makes sense. A NORMAL person can supply NS for only so long-but another Narc is like a bottomless well. It explains why Ns/Ps tend to marry their fans/admirers. Eva Duarte, who had been sleeping her way up the Buenos Aires social ladder, was a "fan" of Juan Peron before she married him. Mary Baker Eddy, who was a histrionic cerebral female Narc, took as her third husband Asa Gilbert Eddy. Asa was her most devoted student&defender. He was incredibly subservient, as well as a decade her junior (tho she had her age falsified on the marriage certificate to close that age gap) Leo Tolstoy married Sofia Behrs, who was a fan of his writing and had memorized his books. Sofia was in awe of him, and when she got married to him, one of her wedding party told her "You're marrying a splendid man and famous writer!" In her account of the wedding, Sofia touts Leo's books "Boyhood" and "Anna Karenina." So, in some bizarre way, her account of her wedding is an ad for Leo's writings.

Lisa, There are not "slightly better" N. Deep down they are same no empathy. I learn that this has no relevance to whether he is rich, poor, ugly, handsome etc. My exN is very rich very handsome very successful in his career and admired by many. He has so many female fans. I was his longest time gf - 3 yrs. I am a normal salaried woman with humble means - in short earning enough for a humble life only. I was living a high life based on his money. It was v v addictive. I really understand why u feel that way. I have stayed in the relationship longer than i should cos of that also. This is what my good friend said to me 1 day: do u want to be wearing a chanel dress and crying inside? My answer is NO. I dont need that chanel dress really. I can be happy with my cheap dress from target and still feel happy. Make the choice for u and your kids. Hugs!! Sumiko

I've wanted a complete and whole family my whole life. Me kicking him out was devastating. Being on my own is devastating. Men scare me! I love being loved and cared for. He is very screwed up but there were about 1/2 of the years we were together that were great! BUT, I can have love again! Someone can be EXACTLY EVERYTHING that I need and desire. I truly believe that. You can have it all! But you need to allow the space for that to be open. If you fill even an ounce of your time with the N, the real deal can never come in.

I think you are lying to yourself if you think you can 'play' the friends with benefits and that you are now, or can remain emotionally unattached with him, but regardless, why exactly would you want to? You say you are always doing the 'right' thing, that you have a busy and fulfilled life, yet you are willing to deny your own real needs in order to escape your life, in which you also say you are lonely. Stay with your narc, but unless you are a narc yourself, his 'not so nice' behavior will take you down again and again. It seems like you are trying to convince yourself that a bandage might heal a wound that is already deeply infected. It's as if you'd be willing to lose the limb in order to pretend there isn't anything wrong with just ignoring it. Needing to 'escape' our lives walks a fine line between blowing off steam to relax and avoiding responsibility for how we feel while living it. You don't need him, if you are that lonely and broke, call your friends more, look at what you can do to work toward attaining a better income, make some goals... Getting intermittent attention from a narc will just keep you in denial that there are deeper issues at stake worth your attention right now. Sorry, I don't want to minimize your confusion, but I must point this out. I think you need to give yourself a big shake, wake up and let the dream go. My whole relationship with my exN was lived for the dream. What I got from him was so great, but only when HE wanted to give it and what I really needed he could never offer me. There comes a time when we HAVE to wake ourselves up and we are the only ones who can decide to stop hitting the snooze. Be strong! (hugs) My 2 cents.

Sure you can! If you dont mind becoming completely enmeshed and consumed to where you have no sense of self any longer by an emotionally unstable sadistic man. So I guess you would really be having a relationship with him. You would become him. He would integrate you as part of him. You would cease to exist at some point.

What about your kids and the example you set to them. If he's a liar, a cheat and an alcoholic then he's basically a five year old. I don't know how old your kids are, but they'll end up in the middle and sides will be taken and your kids will be resented. Kids don't keep quiet forever. Kids question the actions and ridiculous tantrums and decisions of the narc and then question why any sane person would want to live with that kind of person. As much as you miss him and the lifestyle is it worth jeopardizing the relationship you have with your children and their lives. We get one chance at raising kids the best way that we can. I know for myself that even if I met Mr. Perfect tomorrow, the fact that I have kids would result in problems adjusting. I do things my way. Everyone has an opinion. Even Mr. Perfect. He'd want to put in his two cents on how to raise and discipline my kids and the discussions would begin. Healthy people can get there, but it's still not an easy road. Unhealthy people don't get there period and especially narcs. It's all about them and what they want and when they want it. I've never seen anything so pathetic as a grown man passively aggressively insulting my ten year old son two days after an event where an innocent comment was taken as the biggest slight ever in his mind. It's such a difficult road to travel and you would lose yourself. You say you put yourself second now and want something for you. If he's an alcoholic, he isn't putting you first. You'd be second after him too. He's putting his alcohol first over everything else in his life and the destruction it causes. Go to an Al-Anon meeting and see the faces of all those who have lived or live with an alcoholic or addict. The stories they have to tell are not pretty and they only way they can cope is by detaching. It's called detaching with love, but that is such a hard place to get to for many.

I'm not one to butter up anyone. And I won't here either. Mind you, I'm not without compassion and I'll explain that part first. Your post here is filled with cog/dis, excuses for him. It is also so sad that you would consider money to be a better alternative with a lying, cheating, manipulative, alcoholic personality disordered individual. Do you have children? Lisa, I wouldn't say this to anyone here, but what you're considering is wither out of a heavy, HEAVY addiction to a PD, OR there is a little PD within yourself? I know that may be crossing a line, but when you're aware and you're actually considering giving up yourself for a disordered individual for vacations and money and glorifying the PD doing it? GOOD traits? Nuh uh. No one here would say that about disordered one because the good traits are NOTHING but manipulation. All hooks to keep you, well hooked....and that's' all his "generosity" is.. Hmmmmm.......... I'm 48 years old, the single mother of six children. I was married to a psychopath who made good money. NOT WORTH IT. So I get involved with another PD who was WORSE than the first one, also had "money" until he got himself into trouble and into debt, resolution: Married another woman FOR MONEY. Gee.........I'd sure be happy as the woman in THAT situation! truthfully, when my ex was scouring dating sites for his next target, I looked at many profiles, as I put one up to see what his looked like.. I studied the profiles of both men AND women and there were plenty of women who were putting themselves out there, probably psychopaths themselves, who had no problem using a man for money. So I did a little "test". I made up a fake profile and had a lot of fun making up a fictional character just to see what kind of response I would get from men. I didn't hold back either, but put it into terms that would suck in any psychopathic male. The response was UNBELIEVABLE. Compared to the real profile I put up of myself, versus the fake, I got TEN TIMES the response as a woman looking for a man in a trade off sex/money for arm candy/sex. Online dating is predatory heaven. It's disgusting. I learned a lot about PD's that way, as well as about what people will do to settle. I'm sure there are many who marry and use others for sex and money. Some people, of the shallow, disordered variety are probably just fine with that. But I'm telling you, that even at 48, still a student in college, and poor as poor can be, I'd rather be here, than be anywhere near a man who is psychopathic for money and sex. I deserve more. It's my SINCERE hope that on a deeper level, this is you too. I really do.

and Savior Jesus says: "For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? " Matthew 16:26 I like this.....He is so right on (as always!!) love~ Layla