I'm wondering...Do we all share something in common?

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#1 Mar 21 - 4PM
TLSM
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I'm wondering...Do we all share something in common?

This may of been discussed before. I apologize if it has. I am fairly new and haven't had time to read all posts.

As I am reading these posts, I am very moved by all of them. I see us dealing with the same stunts from these bozo's and I see us begging and pleading for them after they have done us wrong.

I have major abandonment issues... I suspect most of us here do - the begging and pleading after they treat us badly and discard us.
I know that when this happens to us, we are in shock and don't know what just happened and may be just simply reacting to the confusion of it all...
But I'm wondering if it's more of the abandonment issue, too?

Mar 25 - 8PM
Susan32
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Becoming withdrawn

During the past 2 years, I've noticed that I've become reclusive. For awhile, I was thinking I'd be moving from California back to Oregon, so I started distancing myself, because I thought I'd be packing&leaving anytime. When I was working at the Narc workplace for 5 years, I would go to lots of churches/spiritual places for the writing I was also doing. Only recently I've been touching base with the friends/churches I had lost touch with (I know my grammar is hackneyed) When I was young, I moved A LOT. I became accustomed to instability. Sooo... of course the ex-Psych professor preyed on this instability. When I was little, I moved with my family from California, to upstate New York, to Canada, to California AGAIN, then to Oregon... then to New Mexico for college. I never really put roots down anywhere. I'm not secluding myself in my apartment, I do get out... but I notice I've become as reclusive as after the final D&D. On top of that, my paternal grandmother passed away in late December, so I've hunkered down. I'm trying not to bash myself for the fact that while I lived 2 hours away from her for the past 8 years, I hadn't driven down to visit her. I'm not familiar with freeway driving (I had a recent scare in San Rafael-the "Marin County Last Exit" is a jolt of reality) I DID stay in contact with her. I just have to remind myself to stop the self-flagellation and the constant self-doubt. Those got me in trouble in the first place.
Mar 24 - 9AM
Trulybroken
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Every human walking the

Every human walking the planet has fears of abandonment. NO one is exempt from fear of being alone, being rejected etc. Don't take too much stock into self-help books, or web sites or therapists who tell you you need to work on your fear of abandonment, it's going against your human "grain" What needs to be worked on, it self love, self esteem and dignity. All these we lose when we give in to the fears of abandonment. It's ok to lose, it's ok to fear abandonment, but if you can "self love" and keep your dignity intact, then you will never beg anyone to not leave you, you will face the fear and let them leave.
Mar 24 - 3PM (Reply to #41)
Steph
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Truly Broken...

you are a wise, wise woman!
Mar 24 - 1PM (Reply to #40)
Veronrose
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Truly, you are so right! My

Truly, you are so right! My therapist keeps wanting to work on my self-esteem and dignity first and foremost. She made me realize that if I had a healthy self-esteem I wouldn't have participated in or accepted what the N had to offer. It wouldn't have mattered if he left, because I wouldn't have been comfortable with the boundaries he crossed. It sucks how I do have a low self-esteem, and the N only served to make it lower, and take away any dignity that I did have. It's now time to re-claim it. Thanks for that post. xo
Mar 23 - 9AM
sunflowergrl70
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We all have abandonment issues on some level.

My N's favorite thing to do was discuss things he was going to with his life like move away or change his work schedule and be gone certain nights of the week. Our schedule was always Mon, Tue and every other weekend due to my child-custody schedule. So he used to play the game of acting like he was going to book up and be gone on those nights. Basically just trying to make me ask him "but what about us". The only thing it did do was piss me off!! If we had an argument and I talked about something I didn't like he's start in with the attitude of if you don't like it leave. I NEVER begged him. In fact I would say "fine I will". He would back down.
Mar 22 - 10AM
gettinbetter
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Please read I have posted this before but...

I think I will again. If you are really really struggling with the why's and what your root problem is to why you cant get over this relationship, I suggest you read Shari Schreibers site gettinbetter.com. She really goes into the details on the dynamics in these relationships. The best articles are listed under Borderline Pd but all of her articles are magnificent. Just a suggestion to you all. I think it really will help you. It has done wonders for me.
Mar 22 - 10AM
gettinbetter
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TSLM

Im so glad you read Shari's site. I know its a big WOW! when you read it. It took me quite a number of times reading her stuff to get to my core issues. Each I would read I would unconver something new. Those articles have been a life saver and have completely changed my life. I wish everyone here would read them. At the end of the day I think shes dead on that these relationships are rooted in toxic shame and core woundedness on both ends. Did you get sleepy when you read them. I totally did and then she mention the thing about that being somatic response to something you dont want to deal. Powerful stuff
Mar 21 - 7PM
Steph
Steph's picture

Variety of different reasons

Variety of different reasons for a variety of different people, I suppose. You will likely find as you read and learn, some things fit for your experience and who you are, and some things won't. Personally, I found the book "Woman who Love Psychopaths 2" by Sandra Brown very informative and I could relate to so many of the traits she desrcibes that make one susceptible to abusive relationships. She also explains so many of the feelings that are common after exiting a toxic relationship. I would recommend that book - it's available online.
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #30)
strongerthanever
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The first counselor I saw

The first counselor I saw after the final breakup had me read "women who love too much" by Robin Norwood. I came across this pdf. If you haven't read the book, I strongly suggest it. I know for myself, the list in this pdf, I have 90% of the things listed. Even though I grew up in a loving family, my mom became ill and was away for a very long time. My dad was not there emotionally at all. When my sis and I were with our mom, we did not feel safe. We did not trust that her health would decline and she would die and we would be left alone. Besided my dad being a Narc and my mom being a giver, my sis and I were perfect candidates for teenage pregnancies. My sis was but I was able to hold out until 21...not married. But, every relationship after that I was picking men that could not be fixed and didn't want to be fixed; I picked abusers and cheaters; I picked me that emotionally were not healthy; and I kept trying and trying to make it work when there was no possible way it would have since I did not trust them. http://www.ta-tutor.com/webpdf/ram167.pdf
Mar 22 - 11AM (Reply to #34)
Playedwithfire
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women who love too much! Im currently reading it.

It is a great book! I on the other hand am addicted to his toxic and very co-dependent.

Playedwithfire

Mar 22 - 10PM (Reply to #35)
gettinbetter
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me too sista!

me too sista!
Mar 22 - 5AM (Reply to #32)
jen79
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strongerthanever I dont understand

You say you came from a loving family, but your father was a Narc and emotionally unavailable. I dont get this point, were you alone with your mother, or was he physically present. I am just asking, sometimes we have to admit things that hurt in recovery. I know that partially my sister know about what went wrong in our childhood, but they refuse to do the work, they are still in denial. Sorry if I am wrong here, then correct me, I just got curious about that contradictory statement.
Mar 22 - 10PM (Reply to #33)
strongerthanever
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My father worked two jobs to

My father worked two jobs to support us when my mother was fighting for her life with Crohn's when I was 8. She was a housewife and yes, I was alone with her a lot or with the other members of the family. My sister and I are very close and so is my cousin. we were the 3 musketeers. When I said I have a loving family, it doesn't mean it stops with mom and dad. My family is a large Italian crazy family. I would walk around town and have family on every block so, I would stop in to eat, rest, go to the bathroom. I had a grandmother (mom's side) that lived downstairs and she cared for us too. We were always down there watching her cook or teaching us to crochet. Also my Aunt and favorite cousins. My other Uncle would take us to the city and do things. My Great Aunts on my dad's side also tended to us and we spent many weekends in NYC. The family all came together when my mother was in the hospital for over a yr. I never felt unloved or that I was missing love in my childhood. I just didn't know my dad and never had that connection with him. I knew he loved me but I also caught him talking to one of his women on the phone when my mom was in the hospital. I was 9 and knew better. I knew then he was a liar. He was not there for my athletic games, because he worked or was with the mistress. He was not there for my wedding, he had to work. He never sent me a birthday card or called. Never did I get presents after we left him when I was 16. But, from the rest of the family, i never felt unloved. I knew I had a dad but didn't know what to say to the man when I was with him. When my parents got together after they separated for a yr or more, he began drinking heavily, was into having the best of everything (jaguars, trips, $800 suits when he worked as a aircraft mechanic, leather jackets), and started using cocaine...he got it from the hairdresser that did our hair he was screwing. NICE! I felt not good enough or worth it for him to take 3 days off when I would visit him, for my wedding, or his grandkids births. My childhood, besides no relationship with my father, was filled with lots of laughter, and good memories. The bad memories are tied to my mom's illness and having that fear of losing my mother forever and my dads absence. There was never heart to heart talks. He would buy me things to show his love. that is what he was taught from his aunts and parents. His father also ran out on the family and disappeared when he was a young father. I never knew my grandfather. The rumor was he was hiding from the mob. My father's mother was crazy and not loving either. She refused to be called grandma. We had to call her by her first name and it wasn't even her real name mind you. She didn't like her name so she made one up. My mom made sure we didn't spend too much time with her. My abandonment fears come from losing my mom and then there is the part of trying to make my dad be a dad, show that he cared, be there when I needed him, no lies or cheating, tell me he loved me, did something out of love and not guilt, admit he was wrong and do some restitution - this is how my relationship with my exN ended up being like. My father was a narc because evertything evovled around him. He was the only child and his Aunts treated him like the Prince. He received the best of the best while growing up and never denied. My father looked like if Burt Reynolds and Tom Selleck had a baby. When he walked in the room, everyone turned. He was big, gregarious, flirtatous and if he didn't get what he wanted, he pouted. we went without shoes because he bought a new fly rod for his fishing trips. He rarely went on family vacations with us. It was with his fishing buddies. He was always right, and he tried to keep my mom's family and friends away from us. This might be TMI into my life but, I hope it explains some things. I've been talking about this in counseling for many, many years. When I was a teen, I told the counselor I didnt trust my mom would be around to care for us. She still struggles at 63 with Crohn's and I've cared for her for many years. I also had to care for my dad in the last 6 months of his life. Even then, he would not confess to the damage he did. He denied he ever cheated when I had proof. He denied everything! I never got closure from him until I talked to a psychic last yr and he came through and said, "I tried my best. I'm sorry for not being there." And this lady did not know my past or him at all.
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #31)
gettinbetter
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yep me too!

I came from a loving family but I absolutely have abadonment issues and Im not sure some of them didnt originate from round one with Narc boy. I was quite young when I got tangled up with him.
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #29)
TLSM
TLSM's picture

staying strong78

I am learning so much here. I am so grateful for this site. It has saved me from contacting him, whether peeking at his FB business page or sending him "You did this to me and my daughter!"...What a waste of time that would be! My friends and family, they try to be supportive, but they are tired of it...They just don't get the damage these asses left behind. I have that book and haven't read it yet! I will definitely check out now. Thanks Staying Strong78.
Mar 21 - 7PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

TLSM

I've bounced around the court a few times with different ideas and theories. Currently I'm on an anti-label kick. I think that if you have a backgroud where abandonment was and issue then yes, that might be your issue... Equally, if you never had an abandonment issue in the past, this situation is abandonment and so if you were abandoned you will have abandonment issues. We were victimized, we were used, it will result in pain, that pain will hurt and it will take time to heal from that pain. They say it takes 18 months to heal and it might even take longer. I don't expect a crash course in healing...I try to feel every feeling that I feel good and bad and I try to give time time by living moment by moment. Other than that...past issues, future issues...the issue here is pain and it hurts...one size does not fit all in my opinion...I think the commonality is we got burned by a personality disordered individual...and some people may have had issues that made the odds better they'd fall prey...but in evrything I've read, no anyone can be a victim...and I really want to make an effort to clarify that this is what the professionals are saying... That even the professionals get taken and hoodwinked. We are not professionals... Is it worth it to explore why we ignored flags and so forth...YES...so that we don't make the same mistake again and if we do have certain traits that are a problem we can correct them...but examine within the scope that they "bother us" those traits "we don't like" not because they "disurbed the narc" and we think if we did something better somehow we'd still be together. I think we need to build ourselves up and stop accepting blame and stop being our own worse enemy. I think we need to embrace we were victimized, do the work, process, heal, recover and come out of this survivors. What we have in common is that the Narcs are not thinking about us - it's our mess to clean up.
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #14)
TLSM
TLSM's picture

michele115

My own personal goal is to simply stop this hell from happening to me again. I intend to do so. Victim or not, I was still a part of this relationship and stayed in it, when I knew better...I tried SO many times to escape him and to leave him, only to go into panic mode and beg him back after I'd dump him. WHY???!!! Was it my abandonment issues? Was I scared to be alone? That is why I reached out here and asked if it was just me? For me, I need to look deep within myself to see why I was in denial for 4.5 years. The fact that I did stay scares me now and that's a good thing it does. It's woken me up and will change my life forever. For the better. But this is just my own personal experience. For me personally it's about healing and taking charge and preventing it from happening again. Much love to all of you girls...We need it. xoxo
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #27)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

I just posted an article on

I just posted an article on this very subject under what is the root cause of addiction. I could have written the post above myself. I have been digging and digging deep within as I cannot have this happen to me again. Thank God I have not had a history of abusive relationships. Just this one. Here is the link. This article discusses fear of being alone. http://phoenixtools.org/articles/addiction.htm
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #15)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

We must have been communicating telepathically

Was I scared to be alone? Because I think that is the answer right there and i was just writing something about that...how I believe it is an existential issue - it has to do with the human condition and it's struggle against lonliness.
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #16)
TLSM
TLSM's picture

AND!

I don't know how old you are, but when you get to be "older", for me, I am afraid the choices become fewer?...I am a single mom (like you!) and run my own business...It's hard to meet people. But I tell ya, I feel safe now. I do have pangs for him and they are tough, but it will get easier with time.
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #18)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

TLSM...but you are saying some very key things here....

I am afraid the choices become fewer?...FEAR So if trying to figure out the why...is it possible that it was from fear of being alone? Having to deal with the lonliness?
Mar 21 - 9PM (Reply to #19)
TLSM
TLSM's picture

YES, one of them for me is

YES, one of them for me is the FEAR of being alone. And the control I allowed him to have over me. Part of me hated it, but part of me liked it. That is scary. AND I have always liked a challenge. A guy who was too easy to figure out and came on too strong bored me and I felt smothered. YIKES.
Mar 21 - 9PM (Reply to #20)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

OMG

Yes me too! If they liked me too much in the beginning I was like nope kick them to the curb. I was always attracted to the bad boys. The Narc was a bad boy and when I got him to "commit" meaning I was his official significant other I felt victorious and then the game began....
Mar 21 - 9PM (Reply to #22)
Jewwell
Jewwell's picture

Question - for Sick of it

I also have always been attracted to the bad boys and I am starting to think that it might go back to 12 years of Catholic school education -- please, please, no one take this the wrong way!!! Did you have a similar education??? I remember way back in the rerun days of "Big Valley", all of my friends were crazy about Lee Majors and I was crazy about the bad brother, Nick. Maybe I am aging myself here. I have read some of your posts, but I don't post often myself. I know you love your husband . . . but, in addition to the confusion with the N, I just don't think my husband of 27 years and I belong together. We have been together since i was 19 and we are just very different people now. The N has just pulled a disappearing act on me after talking to me until 3:30 in the morning on Friday night.
Mar 22 - 4AM (Reply to #26)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

I did not but my Mom did!!!

I did not but my Mom did! She went to school at a Convent! while I was not raised in the catholic faith my parents were strict. I also still practice some things from the Catholic faith eventhough In not Catholic! Im gettin ready for work so I dont have alot of time but I will say alot of these relationships are rooted in toxic shame. I was raised with the principle Do the right thing or else principle. Kids who were raised "right" behaved a certain way etc... My parents were not abusive in any way and actually I was a bit spoiled but it was their way or else....
Mar 21 - 10PM (Reply to #23)
TLSM
TLSM's picture

I did, Jewwell

I had a Catholic education! Ha!
Mar 22 - 10PM (Reply to #25)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I too am a victim of Catholic Education...

BUT I will never forget a lay teacher teaching "Christian Marriage" no less - a required course senior year 1985... I remember vividly her saying: "Ladies, white lies are okay, you don't have to tell your husband everything...AND never marry a man who can't afford to buy you the fur coat you don't need." At the time, I was so in loooove at 17 and thought this was a rather odd piece of advice! I wish I listened...
Mar 21 - 10PM (Reply to #24)
Jewwell
Jewwell's picture

TSLM - Similar upbringing!

I don't know how to explain it to someone who didn't experience the 70's Catholic education -- but it did mold me into the person I am. I spent way too long "settling" and GUILT is a big one! I haven't been truly happy in my marriage since year two and now that the N has invaded my brain nonstop for almost 2 years, I am at a crossroads.
Mar 21 - 9PM (Reply to #21)
TLSM
TLSM's picture

YES!!!!!!!

SAME EXACT! And he was the first guy who smothered me, but I LOVED IT and couldn't GET ENOUGH OF IT! And HE KNEW IT. UGH!!!!
Mar 21 - 8PM (Reply to #17)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

TLSM - Why it's so hard to stay away...

http://www.lisaescott.com/2011/02/08/why-its-so-hard-us-stay-away