The Illusion of Managing (Or Controlling) a Pathological Person

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#1 Sep 23 - 4PM

better off

The Illusion of Managing (Or Controlling) a Pathological Person

I think this would be good reading for today: it is an article by SANDRA BROWN THAT I TAKE NO CREDIT FOR, that I found on a totally different Website than SANDRA BROWN'S.

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/narcissist-victims-syndrome-survivor...

This is just an excerpt:

Pathologicals and/or addicts are not managed. Shortening the leash, making demands, watching closer, hiring a P.I. is not managing a person's acting out. Pathology is noted for its inability to grow to any emotional or spiritual depth, the inability to sustain the changes that you have demanded, and the inability to develop insight how their behavior harms others. People with pathological disorders are not managed---not by you, jail, prison, or church. The inability to sustain change means that the pathological will APPEAR to do whatever it takes to stay in the relationship, but the disorder itself means they cannot sustain the change that will please you.

People embrace the truth of pathology when they realize that the idea they are 'managing' the pathological's negative behavior or addictions is simply an illusion. Jails and prisons are packed full of personality disordered and pathological individuals because probation 'management' or 'psychological management' did not work. As they say in 12 steps, 'When nothing changes--nothing changes.' Pathology has an inability to change which means nothing consistently changes in the pathological individual except maybe new 'ideas' about how to con others.

Managing manipulative behavior, drugs or alcohol, porn or sex addictions, infidelity, lying, and conning are an illusion used by the partner in order to 'buy a little more time' to try to figure out how to make the pathological be 'more normal.' In the end, it's your defense mechanisms telling you that by changing your belief system (he can be different, he can do better) that you can 'help them find the resources they need in order to grow into their full potential.' If you're over 30, falling in love with 'potential' is a crap game risk. People not living up to their potential in adulthood are called--pathologically disordered. By adulthood, either you 'have the ability for life skills and success' or you are 'life challenged' by addictions or pathology. In either case, partners need to understand there is no 'managing' someone else's negative and pathological behavior. That is an illusion!

#2 Sep 25 - 11AM

better off

bump

bump another excerpt When there is the thought by 'putting the pathological on a short leash' and checking on them frequently, calling the cell, sending people out to find them, breaking into the pathological's phone or computer, that the fear of being caught will 'stop' the behavior, the belief is based on the illusion of management.

#3 Sep 24 - 2PM

jen79

this will make you all laugh!!!

"In the end, it's your defense mechanisms telling you that by changing your belief system (he can be different, he can do better) that you can 'help them find the resources they need in order to grow into their full potential." He told me, when I refused to send him pics, cause I dont trust him yet: "If you have a bad feeling, you must ask yourself, what do I like about it? Then the feeling will disapear." I laughed my ass off, did he really do this? Are you kidding me? Did you just really give me an advice on "how to be a better whore" by changing and rechecking my believe system? Jesus this made me laugh today walking on street, when I remembered it.

#4 Sep 24 - 3PM (Reply to #38)

michele115 (not verified)

M I N D C O N T R O L....

Jen, I can't believe he said that...OMG... And you know, unfortunately, when in love, it probably made sense...hehehehehe...cause they were just sooooo Charming Understanding Worldly Wise... Gag me with a spoon, then bang me on the head for good measure!

#5 Sep 24 - 3PM (Reply to #39)

jen79

Mindcontrol

thats what they do, they take "good stuff" and use it for their purpose. Things like: In buddhism its all about living in the moment - so if you have a bad feeling to show your tits, dont worry, just live in the NOW and sleep with me. Or: You know love is about not controlling, its about being so nice to each other that you want to spend more time with each other (after finding out he had several other whores and after he paddled back to wanting a committed relationship with me). They use spiritual stuff to control you, twisting everything they heard somewhere to exploit it for their sick way of living and sense of entitlement.

#6 Sep 28 - 9PM (Reply to #41)

Susan32

Using spiritual stuff...

The ex-Psych professor was big into spirituality, claiming he was a "quietist" who simply observed life. He wrote a little mess on the internet called "Wittgenstein, Tolstoy and the Meaning of Life" (it sounds like the parody of a self-important philosophical paper, but sad to say, it's for real)... if he had added "Monty Python" THEN there would be meaning! His philosophy was the equivalent of Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, and "run away!"* He used St. Augustine to snare me. He claimed he was so humble. Yeah right. Yet he expected me to give up my religion (I DID NOT) What's funny was that not too long ago I was at a spirituality bookstore/tea shop, and the gay man who operates it (he&his boyfriend run a retreat center,really kind guy) was talking about Quietism. I had to laugh to myself... if I lacked a sense of right&wrong and had gone ahead with a sick joke... I would've given the ex-P's email address to him so they could hook up (virtually) There are no coincidences. When I heard that gay man discussing Quietism, I wasn't upset. I didn't go out in tears. I didn't feel incredible longing. I simply laughed to myself. *"Run away!" is the cry of King Arthur and his men in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."

#7 Sep 28 - 11PM (Reply to #42)

better off

If ONLY narcs believed in

If ONLY narcs believed in "quietism."

#8 Sep 24 - 3PM (Reply to #40)

anonymous

Poetic Justice

Funny, but the only remotely spiritual thing the Ex N believed in was karma. Can't wait until his beliefs come true. Bwhahahahahahahaha!!!

#9 Sep 24 - 2PM

Scoop

Whilst the person who wrote

Whilst the person who wrote this has writen lots of excelent things , i have a problem when she starts to tell victums that their obssessive thought will only get worse if they dont get treatment and then proceeds to flog her treatment program at $6oo a hit . How i can say that time does heal all things and there are plenty of things you can do to help them along which doesnt cost the earth .This kind of scare mongering is unforgiverble and i noticed this with her book that shall not me named too although that is just my own oppinion blah blah . I know that my obssessive thought have died down greatly and that has just taken time and nc and im only 7 months out , there is no doubt that it takes a very long time to heal but to tell people they will get worse well thats rubbish . xxx

#10 Sep 28 - 10PM (Reply to #36)

2RudeInAK

Seriously? $60/hit ??

*edited to note comments from below that I 'should' have read prior to posting*

#11 Sep 24 - 3PM (Reply to #31)

better off

Some people here are still

Some people here are still obsessing after two years. That kind of thing does need therapy, and nobody does therapy for free. I don't think she's trying to get rich scamming anyone, like that Kim Cooper charlatan.

#12 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #32)

Scoop

Better off . I supose the

Better off . I supose the whole area of asking for money for a "cure" is a very gray area for me, especially when it is as objective as this , to tell people they will only get worse if they dont part with money is a political issue and probably has no place on the board . sorry ..big love xx

#13 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #33)

better off

No, that's cool! I was just

No, that's cool! I was just saying she apparently IS a board certified therapist, and the money they charge IS for actual counseling. I think it's 60 dollars per hour or something. But I see your point that the msg is wrong if it's that you CAN'T get better without this counseling. I hadn't really noticed that before. I think if you're stuck, though, and you are NOT getting better, you have to do something. And I like her approach because she is all about the reality that these relationships WILL harm you and you can't better until you get out of them, and you have to accept that you can't change them. But don't feel bad about stating your opinion, you're entitled!

#14 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #34)

michele115 (not verified)

I think we need to start our own therapy program...

We can call it: NARC HUNTERS... Just buy a bunch of rifles and shoot 'em down! Lord forgive me...and no ladies I don't really mean that... but you know?...!

#15 Sep 28 - 10PM (Reply to #35)

2RudeInAK

Like Dog the Bounty Hunter?

You know ...... I have several 1st place awards for shooting tournaments! Seriously........ I'm in!

#16 Sep 24 - 3PM (Reply to #21)

michele115 (not verified)

600 A HIT?

I don't need her treatment program...at 600 a hit, a shopping spree would do me just fine!!!

#17 Sep 24 - 3PM (Reply to #22)

better off

60 not 600

I think it's 60, which is actually pretty reasonable for a therapy session. I don't knock her phone therapy. I've never done it or anything, but there are a lot of people who cannot find a proper therapist where they live, that know what to do about this sort of situation.

#18 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #23)

michele115 (not verified)

I'm One of THEM

Who can't find a decent therapist...it's a horror what the schools are turning out today...sometimes I feel I need to comfort the therapist after I talk...LMAO...whatcha gonna do...

#19 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #24)

better off

Yeah, there's nothing like

Yeah, there's nothing like seeing a look of horror or disbelief on a therapist's face.

#20 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #25)

michele115 (not verified)

better off

So I see you've been there...LOL

#21 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #26)

better off

Yes! And a deep sigh, with

Yes! And a deep sigh, with hands folded over the chest, and then staring at the ceiling and shaking his head. That was the therapist, not me. lol It made me feel better though, because even he felt really bad for me, and he hears it all.

#22 Sep 25 - 4PM (Reply to #27)

Meadowbrook

Movie of the week

Yesterday my therapist told me she thought it sounded like a movie of the week. I wasn't sure what to make of that. I'm never sure if she thinks I'm exaggerating or not. I'm NOT! But unless a therapist is really familiar with the pathology of an N it probably does sound a little unbelievable and I don't think they have much to offer us. I'm pretty sure I've studied it more and read more books on this particular subject than she has.

#23 Sep 28 - 9PM (Reply to #30)

onwithmylife

Talking about therapists

last year when i was in the real throngs of grieving, i went to a wonderful older man who was a lawyer and changing professions to psychology and he was great, knew all about NPD and this go around I am seeing a younger guy and i feel like he does not get it,but this is free thru a college so i am still going and hoping to get something out of it.What a difference the right person makes.

#24 Sep 25 - 4PM (Reply to #28)

anonymous

What an Insensitive and Victimizing Thing to Say!

That was terrible. Really terrible. Sounds like your therapist could learn a thing or two about empathy herself. My problem with therapy ... I had a 'therapist' and she actually encouraged me to have a relationship with the N (you can read my story for all of the details). I'm not blaming her because I went in to see her hellbent on having that relationship no matter what. But looking back on it .... I'm such a strong personality and I think that she would have had no way to help me in just the 6 sessions that my insurance covered. I think that because when I left her I was in a good place, she felt that everything was buttoned up nicely. I don't think she really gave me any good advice or really forced me to look deep within myself. Honestly, I think she was a little intimidated by me. So I agee with you Meadowbrook about us knowing more than the therapists do. I feel that I've gotten much more out of the books I've read and this site than I ever did out of therapy. That being said - I think that when/if I am ready to recommit to my marriage (I'm almost there!) I'm going to insist on marriage counseling because if I don't, I'll be the one to figure out how to make it better, not him. I'll be the one reading all of the books and coming up with couples exercises to do. It dawned on me today - my H has done a lot over 12 years to let the marriage wither on the vine (hence, the relationship with the Ex-N). Yet, he's not the one reading fucking self-help books until he can't absorb anymore, he's not the one on a healing website, he's not the one doing all of these self-improvement activities. Why the fuck am I? Oh yeah, cuz I'm a fucking woman and this is what we do because we've been taught that unlike men, we're not good enough just as we are. I'm fucking pissed right now. Sorry for the cursing.

#25 Sep 28 - 11PM (Reply to #29)

2RudeInAK

With love -- A reality check

Single women are out hounding relationship books as well as married women. Women do it because we are 'socialized' to make relationships a priority. Men are 'socialized' to make competition through play and work a priority. This is not meant to demean the hardships you're having ... just as an insight. Is it fair? Hell NO ... But nobody ever wins fighting reality.

#26 Sep 23 - 7PM

anonymous

Or both

"People not living up to their potential in adulthood are called--pathologically disordered. By adulthood, either you 'have the ability for life skills and success' or you are 'life challenged' by addictions or pathology." ... by addictions or pathology OR BOTH. WTF ever made me think an addicted, bi-polar, loner, pathological, anti-social, narc was my soulmate???

#27 Sep 25 - 4PM (Reply to #18)

almostlydia

'WTF ever made me think an

'WTF ever made me think an addicted, bi-polar, loner, pathological, anti-social, narc was my soulmate???' Answer: the addicted, bi-polar, loner, pathological, anti-social, narc made you think it. almostlydia

almostlydia

#28 Sep 25 - 5PM (Reply to #19)

no more

almostlydia

Luv it!!!!I need to become more strong,,,wish I could get there...I have cancelled out on soooo may people the last 2 months,,,,,,I want to find the old me again!!!!! LOL,,,,, has anyone found her yet???? Return to sender!!!!

I just got involved with the same N for the second time.
What was I thinking? Because I have put myself back to the same point where I am blaming myself again. And for what?
I want to get rid of these feelings again.

#29 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #17)

michele115 (not verified)

Loving It Morty

WTF ever made me think an addicted, bi-polar, loner, pathological, anti-social, narc was my soulmate??? And I'm right there with ya! Cheers!

#30 Sep 24 - 4PM (Reply to #15)

michele115 (not verified)

I guess I am a pathological then

At this moment, not living up to my potential...I lack ability for life skills, oh me oh my...and this is what I get for falling in love with a NARC... Maybe I'm truly crazy...off the edge... Has anyone here ever thought..If you can't beat 'em join em?...LOL I'm under a spell today...don't mind me...but seriously, I kind of envy their inability to "feel"...look what "feeling" got us.... This too shall pass I suppose...

#31 Sep 25 - 4PM (Reply to #16)

no more

LOL

Yea I think the same thing,,,,,,,will we ever be successful of having feelings of devoid and avoid???? As far as if you can't beat them join,,,my ex N is an alcohoic,,starts drinking everyday at 9 to 10 am,,,,and there was no time to go anywhere unless I always drove,,,, well I became very sick of that situation and started to join him on the drinking,,,,,LMAO now because we went NOWHERE,,,just to hell in a handbasket,,because I would never drink and drive but he would,,,but thank the Lord I was always able to say neither one of us can drive so ,,,,YUP we are going nowhere today,,let's just drink somemore.... Man,,just want to say i will never ever say again if you can't beat them join them....I am so much better off sober.

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