If your Narc died how would you feel?

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#1 Apr 10 - 3PM
Arwen
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If your Narc died how would you feel?

Post removed per forum user's request.

Apr 11 - 7AM
AJRD
AJRD's picture

It's odd...I just had a dream...

A few nights ago I dreamed that my N died. It was odd--in the dream the only thing I felt sad about was that I would miss our "chemistry" and attraction. I knew I did not miss HIM.
Apr 11 - 7AM
momoya
momoya's picture

Felt the same

I think that is pretty normal. I don't know why our minds go there, maybe it is about letting go. But I felt the same patiencegoal, I felt like if I heard he died I would be relieved. I don't know why. I even had to tell him that I wished he would kill himself. I have never said such a thing to anyone, nor did I think I would want to. I had the same fantasy of his grave and yes dancing and doing other things that are not nice.

momoya

Apr 11 - 6AM
helldweller
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But you know what?

He didn't care if he died and left us all behind like this. I asked him: What if you had DIED without any of the five of us women knowing about each other? If we had all shown up at your wake thinking you were our partner? Is that what you wanted? For a final huge, dramatic clash of passions that you could be the center of but not have to answer for? He shrugged his shoulders. He probably gave his brothers orders to not tell any of us when he died. That would be another classic move. Drop off the face of the earth-literallly-and leave five-plus women in pain and dangling for the rest of their lives. It would be a way for him to keep us prisoner for many, many years to come, even after he was gone.
Apr 11 - 7AM (Reply to #68)
Arwen
Arwen's picture

heldweller

wow...get this re: your comment about him leaving 5 women behind...he said to me several times "are you going to be one of the many women who come and cry at my funeral?". ASSHOLE. I should have replied, "oh, when IS the funeral?"
Apr 11 - 6AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

But you know what?

He didn't care if he died and left us all behind like this. I asked him: What if you had DIED without any of the five of us women knowing about each other? If we had all shown up at your wake thinking you were our partner? Is that what you wanted? For a final huge, dramatic clash of passions that you could be the center of but not have to answer for? He shrugged his shoulders. He probably gave his brothers orders to not tell any of us when he died. That would be another classic move. Drop off the face of the earth-literallly-and leave five-plus women in pain and dangling for the rest of their lives.
Apr 11 - 5AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

If he died

the first thing I would feel would be grief that there had never been closure, never kindness or gentleness when it was over. That that man I knew was in there somewhere had never come out and really looked at me or smiled at me--or anyone for that matter. The loss of wonderful potential. I would also feel great relief that he was out of his pain. I would also be very, very happy that I didn't have to see him anymore, see him smiling and laughing and talking with anyone but me, see him passionate about a stranger's child but hating my own children who love him so much. See his face and eyes and smile and the way he walks--all of the things that I adored so much. See his hands that held me. If he were dead, maybe I could pretend that, on the other side, he was sorry. That, from the other side, he truly loved us as he never could here.
Apr 11 - 5AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

If he died

the first thing I would feel would be grief that there had never been closure, never kindness or gentleness when it was over. That that man I knew was in there somewhere had never come out and really looked at me or smiled at me--or anyone for that matter. The loss of wonderful potential. I would also feel great relief that he was out of his pain. I would also be very, very happy that I didn't have to see him anymore, see him smiling and laughing and talking with anyone but me, see him passionate about a stranger's child but hating my own children who love him so much. See his face and eyes and smile and the way he walks--all of the things that I adored so much. See his hands that held me. If he were dead, maybe I could pretend that, on the other side, he was sorry. That, from the other side, he truly loved us as he never could here.
Apr 11 - 5AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

If he died

the first thing I would feel would be grief that there had never been closure, never kindness or gentleness when it was over. That that man I knew was in there somewhere had never come out and really looked at me or smiled at me--or anyone for that matter. The loss of wonderful potential. I would also feel great relief that he was out of his pain. I would also be very, very happy that I didn't have to see him anymore, see him smiling and laughing and talking with anyone but me, see him passionate about a stranger's child but hating my own children who love him so much. See his face and eyes and smile and the way he walks--all of the things that I adored so much. See his hands that held me. If he were dead, maybe I could pretend that, on the other side, he was sorry. That, from the other side, he truly loved us as he never could here.
Apr 11 - 1AM
dudette
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I would breathe

a sigh of relief..... no need to fight for NC every day, no need to hide away from places that I used to enjoy going to because he might be there. No need to hide away from my own hometown because he might be there parading some OW.... I could grieve him for the proper reasons in the proper way....and finally return to a normal life....
Apr 10 - 11PM
Alisa
Alisa's picture

In the last few weeks

In the last few weeks whenever I hadn't heard from him for a few days I have to admit that I thought that I wouldn't mind if he was just gone for good. It just would make moving on so much easier.
Apr 10 - 9PM
divorcedfromevil
divorcedfromevil's picture

I don't know if I wish exnh

I don't know if I wish exnh dead, but always kind of hope when I read a bad news story that his name is there. That's really sad, isn't it?
Apr 10 - 9PM (Reply to #60)
Arwen
Arwen's picture

Hi divorced

Yes it is incredibly sad. to have reached this level of anger that we might feel relieved seeing another human being's obit.
Apr 10 - 9PM
Arwen
Arwen's picture

in a little while I think I

in a little while I think I will take down this post as incredibly enriching as it is. If something should happen to him I don't want to end up being a suspect. But I think would have to get in a long line! LOL
Apr 10 - 8PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Patience...

I would have to agree not exactly the best thing to post on the net; however, I can appreciate your honesty and attention to detail...the red dress kinda makes the scene "pop".... For me, not sure what I would do but I did make it clear early on that in the event of his death, I did not wish to be advised. I feel the same way today. I don't think I'd care...
Apr 10 - 9PM (Reply to #57)
Arwen
Arwen's picture

LOL Michele...I gotta laugh

LOL Michele...I gotta laugh for one second. The situation that I'm in from this primary narc is so horrendous that I have no tears left it seems..until I have more tears.
Apr 10 - 8PM
strongerthanever
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If he passed around the time

If he passed around the time I am predicting, I would feel a "told you so" however, feeling sorrow for his family. The entire family is screwed up and he just manipulated everyone. I know his son's mother would be very happy so she wouldn't have to deal with him anymore and have their other family be it. I would be grateful for the fact that he is no longer on this Earth hurting others and just being a rotten human being. DO OVER! I just want to tell God, "take him out of the game please. he's not doing too well on the field and everyone is being affected." I would feel bad for him because not too many people will be around to say their good-byes. When my dad passed, it was me, my sister, and his ex-wife, my mom. We called to his last place of work to let them know he did pass away but, we didn't have an address book filled with friends to call. I found that sad. It'll be the same way with the exN. That is where my sadness will be.
Apr 10 - 8PM
Journey
Journey's picture

I'm sure I'd feel some

I'm sure I'd feel some sadness because I did love the man he tried to be with me for a little while, but couldn't maintain because of his disorder. I'd probably cry a little for that 'final loss'. But I've been mourning that man for a long time and since that man is already dead to me, I doubt I would feel much increase in the pain I've already felt. I don't think I'd feel much relief either, except to know he couldn't inflict any new pain on me or anyone else. He told me a few months ago that he put me into his will... so I might feel a little richer :) - that would be nice. But I don't wish him to be dead. Rather I wish he would have a mental and emotional breakdown and revelation to one day tackle his disorder and become the man I thought he was. But if he does, I don't want to hear about how he is healed and in love with someone else for real because that would likely bring up all the anger and rage at the pain he has caused me and make me wish he were dead. Hmmm, contradictions abound when a narc is involved. I'd rather just feel indifferent which is what I'm finally starting to experience.

Journey on...

Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #53)
Tinker
Tinker's picture

journey - in his will

a year or two ago, he told me he was leaving me everything because he had three kinds of stage-three cancer. then, after the umpteenth D&D soon after, he said he took me out of the will because of some horrible thing i'd done. needless to say, he's surviving quite well, thank you, without any treatment whatsoever:) i don't wish him dead, maybe just disappear??
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #54)
Journey
Journey's picture

Yes Marissa, and I can

Yes Marissa, and I can imagine my exN will use that against me like yours did to you if he ever wants to hurt me in the future. Mine told me this long after the D&D and aside from some business communication he has been all but gone. I don't even know if it is even true, but if it is, it just goes to show how few people in his life he is really close to.

Journey on...

Apr 10 - 7PM
Arwen
Arwen's picture

I'm sorry. Bullshit. They

I'm sorry. Bullshit. They know what they're doing, disease or not. My father had a serious addiction. He could have kicked it. He didn't want to, didn't care how many people he destroyed. When enough people tell the narc they have destroyed their lives, then they are damn well smart enough to know they need help and that they can get it. At least they can TRY. That's the operative word for me - TRY. They are smart enough to do EVERYTHING else...I don't buy a g-damn minute of it.
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #50)
TLSM
TLSM's picture

YUP

My situation too... My ex Narc's ex wife and all 3 of his children told me that he is a selfish, unfeeling and a very sick man. They said he was a horrible father and husband. He knows exactly what he is doing and he doesn't care who he hurts... I know it sounds harsh, but he tried to kill my soul and didn't accomplish it...But almost did. Right now he is having the time of his life with his little gf and not giving a crap about anyone but himself. He will CONTINUE to hurt people for as long as he lives. It's all about him!
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #51)
Arwen
Arwen's picture

Yup me too

When my father took his gf with him to our house when I was one year old and she told my mother she wanted to "buy" the five of us children from my mother for $10,000, my mother said my father had his head hanging even though he didn't say a word. He KNEW what he was doing!
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #42)
Veronrose
Veronrose's picture

patiencegoal

So are you saying that they (not addicts, but narcissists)ARE capable of change? I would love to believe that but that's not what I'm reading and learning on these boards. :(
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #49)
Arwen
Arwen's picture

Veronrose

Yeah I know it's not what you're reading on these boards. I can only tell you what I think having been there many times. True NPD in my eyes is so pervasive as a way of life, a way of thinking, and a way of behaving, that unless something very, very traumatic happens to them such as in the one that is happening now to my most recent narc who has been indicted on sixteen counts of fraud and theft and is facing prison and years of fines, restitution, etc., as well as having to face his own horrific shame and guilt at what he has already done to his loved ones by his crimes, then there may not be a chance for change in these people. I have been reading a great deal about how narcs might help themselves and I have found some great articles by researchers who have some hope now. But the main process has to be one of the narc getting to therapy in the first place which if it happens at all, usually happens when they hit rock bottom, i.e. losing all supply, facing a legal problem, and other things that force them to look at their behaviors and lives. I do believe that they can become more aware and adapt to certain changes in their lives albeit not "recovering" fully from NPD. They have to commit to getting therapy long-term, including couples counseling and other group therapies so they can compare themselves to others like them. They say once an addict always an addict. I have people in my own family who are the most severe addicts who are alive now and drug free - NOT addiction free but drug free. It means they will always be addicts but they have removed the drug. They will always need support and help. One of these people is my uncle who spent ten years in a Federal prison for transporting cocaine in the trunk of his car. He was addicted, and he did something really stupid for one of his dealer "friends". You know what? That jail saved his life. He would have been dead now. Does he still want to snort a few lines? You bet! But, through repeated and learned behavior and his supply of Coke taken away, he has learned a different response for his behavior of doing Coke. Anyway, I am so angry and I believe that the narc may not be able to change his emotions, but he can change his response to his emotions and his behavior towards others even if he's not "feeling" it. I know that the narc who destroyed my livelihood and most of the rest of my life knows very, very well what he does and he becomes extremely suicidally depressed at times over his own actions! I don't know if he gets help. I want him dead because he CONTINUES to destroy any professional endeavor I make in our field. No one messes with my work. No one. So, yes, I do wish he were removed from this earth by disease or whatever.
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #43)
Journey
Journey's picture

The problem is Veronrose that

The problem is Veronrose that they have to care enough to want to change and since they don't feel empathy or deep authentic love, it is near, if not impossible for them to want to change. I think Sam Vatkin said that change might occur on their death bed if they can no longer blame others or circumstances enough to continue hiding from themselves, but even then it is unlikely because there is a reason their disorder developed in the first place - to feel nothing penetrating the wall of protection that narcissism has built. From my understanding, for psychopaths change is impossible.

Journey on...

Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #46)
Veronrose
Veronrose's picture

Yes, Journey, that surely IS

Yes, Journey, that surely IS the problem. But that's what I'm saying......if it is near impossible for them to WANT to change, and if they are indeed psychopathic Narcissists, and NOT in their right mind, how can I believe that they will get their "just dues" after death? THAT'S what I struggle with. Drug/alcohol addicts are not necessarily narcissists. There IS help out there for them. Until Patience just posted about new info on a study about a Narcissist's ability to change, I thought they had NO chance for recovery (slim to none I should say). If there IS an opportunity for them to change, then yes, they better do it. Because then you find "intent" and if they have intent to intentionally hurt people I am confident they will pay the price after death. I don't know. Now I'm really confused. :( CAN or CANNOT a narcissist change and revamp into a caring empathetic human being? I would REALLY hope so!!!! If so, then YES, absolutely his actions would have to have accountability in this life AND after.
Apr 10 - 9PM (Reply to #47)
Journey
Journey's picture

Thing is, a part of why they

Thing is, a part of why they don't want to change is that they don't understand the difference on an emotional level. Intellectually they may know their behavior hurts others, but they don't feel how they hurt others. All they know is they don't feel the pain and as they see others suffer, why would they want to suffer too by learning to feel like the rest of us? I am not an expert to say what is definite, but from what I know, it is possible for them to change IF they can break their own narcissistic barrier to their inner feelings, but that contradicts why they built the barrier in the first place, so it is highly unlikely and not probable that they will ever change and in a way I don't see that as a refusal to change, I see it as why they can't. As far as your struggling with their getting their just dues after death if not in this life time, well, I am agnostic, so my spiritual beliefs are not so strict. I do not subscribe to a belief in heaven and hell or a punishing God. As far as my narc ever suffering for the pain he's caused others... well that may never happen in this life or in the afterlife, but that is something I have to accept. Life is not always fair and I refuse to live mine being obsessed that he 'gets his', since that would mean I was holding judgement and I prefer to let it go. The way I figure it and prefer to look at it, is that there was a reason for my experience, be it God's will or unfortunate circumstance, it happened and now I need to forgive myself and forgive him his 'sickness' in order to heal.

Journey on...

Apr 10 - 9PM (Reply to #48)
Veronrose
Veronrose's picture

Journey wrote: "As far as my

Journey wrote: "As far as my narc ever suffering for the pain he's caused others... well that may never happen in this life or in the afterlife, but that is something I have to accept. Life is not always fair and I refuse to live mine being obsessed that he 'gets his', since that would mean I was holding judgement and I prefer to let it go. The way I figure it and prefer to look at it, is that there was a reason for my experience, be it God's will or unfortunate circumstance, it happened and now I need to forgive myself and forgive him his 'sickness' in order to heal." Journey, that's exactly like I feel. VERY well said. xoxo V
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #44)
Arwen
Arwen's picture

Journey right...

...yes I agree totally...change is so rare for them that even if they do try to make a change, for most of us it will always be too little, too late - WAY too little, too late. And psychopathy is a different ball game..as we know not all narcs are psychopaths but all psychopaths are narcs. My primary narc is a psychopath and of course a narc which comes with the territory and that is why I have this awful death wish...it hurts me so badly to wish that on anyone. I would never have believed it could come out of my mouth in my entire lifetime. But imagine how familes of the victims of psychopath feel when they know this person has killed their child, or spouse, or other loved one. It is the same rage. And I don't believe in the death penalty! But...I still want him gone so he stops hurting ME.
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #45)
Journey
Journey's picture

Patiencegoal, I understand

Patiencegoal, I understand why you feel that way. A psychopath is a creature best kept behind bars and away from society, however that happens.

Journey on...