If N's are afraid of commitment, then why do they come so close to it. ..

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#1 Dec 22 - 5PM

Anonymous (not verified)

If N's are afraid of commitment, then why do they come so close to it. ..

If N's are so afraid of attachment, then help me to understand why my N did the following just 6 weeks ago. I have some idea, but I want other opinions on this. Just six weeks ago, my N and I had a 2.5 week time period where we felt that we had a great breakthrough in our relationship. He was open, vulnerable and honest about a few of his short comings and how much I had put up with from him and his undieing love for me. That 2.5 wks. was the best ever in how he regarded me. In over 2 yrs. I had not ever seen this with him to that degree before. He ended up moving our relationship forward by asking me to break my lease on my apartment so I could move in with him by Jan. 1st. Then, he added my name at the post office to his extra PO Box address box so when I moved in, my mail could go there with his. Then, he told his 2 adult daughters who really like me, that he loved me a lot and how I made him so happy. He said that we both had moved to a beautiful place in our relationship and how I was going to move in with him. I overheard this whole conversation with his daughters. He was upstairs on the phone not knowing I was listening downstairs. Then, he had my son come over to his house for the 1st time and showed my son around his house. He pointed out to my son that I would get one of the extra rooms in his house to use as my home office for my business, etc. Then, he had surgery Nov. 21st and I was late in picking him up by 1 hr. as I had my own obligations at my place to take care of before I was to pick him up and take him back to his place. I was going to take total care of him and his chores for 2 wks. post op care. He called me in a rage from the hospital and yelled at me for being an hr. late. I had never been even 5 min. late in seeing him in 2 yrs. and he admitted to this fact himself. We had a big blow out in the car as I was taking him back home...That was the start of the wheels falling off our relationship and then about 1.5 wks. ago, I was at his house overnight stay...2 hrs. before his daughter and family were due to visit us at his house, he picked a fight. He went upstairs to his office, locked me out, turned up the music...I was furious! Boy, did I tell him off and I called him a CN Jackass among many things. He told me to leave his house, or he would call the police. I told him off some more and left. Now, why if the N is so afraid of attachment, did he make plans to have me move in? Why did he become open and vulnerable to me with his feelings admitting some of his faults, why did he tell his daughters and my son about our plans to spend our lives together and for me to move in Jan. 1st. Only to pick 2 fights that I didn't even cause and now, he withdrew and we don't talk..He could have not have tried to make all these plans. Instead, he could have just picked fights with me and he could have ditched me..Please explain this mixed up behavior.

#2 Dec 24 - 12PM

Hunter

Idealize,

Idealize, devalue,discard..rinse and repeat .. Hunter

#3 Dec 24 - 2PM (Reply to #20)

virginia (not verified)

Hunter I need a little help...

Hi Hunter, If N's keep doing this cycle... Idealize &d/d in every relationship, how can some of their partners stay with them so long and how does the lonely?? N think he can keep a partner for NS. My "CN" was very, very affectionate with me, he just didn't approach me for sex. I approached him after waiting 2-3 wks...He hated the idea of meeting someone online or going out. When he met me, he told me how he hates dating and how he was glad his search and the dating scene was over. He hated dating, and he was always available to me anytime I called him on his phone. He gave me his security code that opens his front door, etc. He was never afraid of me dropping by. He had a house cleaner who told me he was controlling, but he was always at home never with other women..only me. He was more of a home body...semi-retired, and preferred being home and working real estate deals and staying on the stock market 7 hrs. a day from his home office. Addicted to watching TV hrs. every night, etc. He was an engineer always working on projects around his house, and fixing things, etc. no doubt he was in a rut around his house. We didn't do very many things outside his routine of interests like...boating, swimming, eating out, watching TV. So, his one woman "me" spoiled him as he put it. Why would he try to get rid of his secondary source of supply, "me" when he would only have to start all over again at 64 to try and find it? His daughters really liked me. He told his daughters how I made him so happy. I know N's are afraid of attachment, but why start all over again if you already have what you had wanted? The only thing is, I was not a door mat. But engineers get bored with door mats who offer little to no stimuli/challenge which I provided him. When I told him off 2 wks. ago, he told me that I rocked him to his core with so many hurtful things I said. He told me last week, that he doesn't know if he will be able to get over it. He said he is gun shy now because our last blow up was terribly bad...For me, the idealizing and d&d are the hardest to get. Some N's are with a partner for yrs. does the N send them to a hotel every 3 wks. when there is an N injury. My CN could not be around me at all in his house if he had an injury...please help me with this more. How did he stay married for 10 yrs. 29 yrs. ago, but he breaks up with me every 3 wks...He did tell me that I was the best woman he had ever had in his life including his family members, etc...Please help me with this a bit...

#4 Dec 24 - 2PM (Reply to #21)

matahari

What a puzzle

Vagina, mine too is an engineer....I think maybe every time he thinks he is getting close to you or you getting close to him it scares him. From my experience with my N engineer husband, it felt like he was a machine with a engine heart ie no heart. His mother thinks i am the best daughter in law she had..even she is not speaking to me now...and i am not even the one having the affair!But I dont give a flying fuck any more. I go to bed with a clear conscience. I did ask him that one question why start all over again with someone else its only going to go down the same road and asked him if he would consider councelling but he said no and that because i spends so much time with my then ill son i and pushed him out he felt that he had so little emotions as it is and would not like to waste it on me! well his loss.Well its all about them u see.Hope this helps.xx

#5 Dec 24 - 3PM (Reply to #22)

virginia (not verified)

My CN would sometimes act like he wasn't really present...

My CN would sometimes act as if he was going through the motions so to speak. Sometimes, he seemed to be in the moment with me and other times he went throught the motions while his facial expressions and emotions seemed hollow..Sometimes, I felt like he was preoccupied and on another planet..disconnected. Then, hrs. later I felt comfortable around him again. He monitored his emotions to keep the emotional distance where he wanted it I feel as I look back on things. When, he seemed preoccupied, I felt a bit shut out and awkward around him. He didn't act upset during those moments, but he seemed without emotions...Then, in those moments, I would feel uncertain and insecure. I would ask him if something was wrong. He would reply with...Don't be paranoid, everything is fine. You think too much. Just relax, everything is fine. I still didn't feel secure. They just felt like words. Then, a day or two later, he would call and seem back to a connected state with me. Did you experience these shifts??

#6 Dec 24 - 3PM (Reply to #23)

matahari

yep

yepxx

#7 Dec 24 - 3PM (Reply to #24)

virginia (not verified)

Matahari..it just dawned on me why he could have acted...

Matahari, It just dawned on my why the N's and/or engineer N's have those weird and awkward shifts...When they seem emotionless and detached going through the motions, that is when the true self appears. When they go back to a more relaxed state and connect again with you, that is the false self working harder to keep you around. That way, you don't give up on them. They have to throw us a bone once in awhile. They have to work so hard to appear normal when they are not, that their energy slips and we see under the mask...Boy, I think I just figured this out for myself...How sad it that. My N can keep all of his riches because I wouldn't want to be him for one second. What misery...

#8 Dec 24 - 3PM (Reply to #25)

matahari

you hit the nail on the head

You hit the nail on the head sweetie....now do you realise how much more you deserve. HE IS A HEARTLESS MACHINE...love ya xx

#9 Dec 22 - 8PM

onwithmylife

virginia

all the previous posts say good things, the narc is disordered, if you went into a mental institute you would not try to have a normal conversation with a patient there, would you or if you tried you would recognize quickly a normal conversation will not work, My narc married 3 times had, to be respectable in society, especially the first one as he even told me he did not love her and i said, why get married then, and he said it was all set I am sorry to say, count your blessings, you would NEVER be GOOD ENOUGH, if you arrived 15 minutes early, that is how they operate, they raise the bar higher and higher, un til you are a performing monkey, it is a nightmare and I can testify that what i did for the man, including handling a major life threatening operation and not even his wife, doing all his things at home and at his work, i never got a thank you, can you believe, that, it is the God's truth...................they are mentally sick and personality disordered, end of story....

#10 Dec 22 - 8PM

ruby01 (not verified)

virginia

He did it to get you all excited and happy, so that he could turn around and kick you in the teeth. That's why it is called devalue and discard. Once they devalue you, as in yelling at you about being 5 min. late, in their sick minds you are "damaged goods", and from that point on it's just a crapfest. In my opinion, he never intended any of the good things to come to fruition. It was just a ruse.

#11 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #16)

A Narc Encounter

I Hope You Get Closure

I would start acting distracted like your into someone else. That will drive him NUTS. He will shed the haggard and tired look and be on his knees. Not that you want him back-but I think you are like me and want some trophy from the entire waste of time. Yours sounds like he would grovel when he feels he is up against something new. Only two outcomes: He insults you for the last time and you end up alone. Or your insult him for the first time and you end up alone. Take your pick. Insinuating he is too old for you, going bald, or some short coming like that will drive him NUTS! They call that Narc Injury and it may land him in bed for a whole week! Also, if they have a disruption in supply and no new sources lined up, this can trigger it also. Do you care? No. Otherwise there is no closure and no winning. If I was going "down" I was going "down" as the one he loved but lost. I think I succeeded.

#12 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #17)

virginia (not verified)

You are funny, smart and correct...

When I yelled back at my eN, after he told me that we are just not meant to be together (due to me calling out his tactics against me) I told him, you are not meant for any woman. No woman would wait in line for you. You are abusive, you hate women, you are sexless. You have lots of money, intelligence but you have the emotional maturity of a 2 yr. old...Oh, did I say much more than that but I ranted believe me. He is a sulking puppy right now..We broke up every month for 27 months, he crumbles every time for days and weeks after a fight. He can't match my verbal ability or honesty about who he is and isn't..So, when I am honest, he tries to withdraw to punish me, and I let him know that I am going out with my friends. I let him know that in the end, he is the loser. I feel pain for a bit, and then I get up even stronger. This time, is the last. I agree with you, I have nothing to lose and a lot to gain by finding a new man one day. He has a lot to lose over and over again with every new woman...sad for him!

#13 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #15)

virginia (not verified)

What little demons they are!

Why do the N's get us excited and then want to devalue and discard us? Only to make us miserable the way they feel deep inside? You know, misery loves company kind of thinking...

#14 Dec 22 - 8PM

Layla

"Please explain this mixed up behavior."

He has a personality disorder. That's it. That's the answer. Keep reading and educating yourself on these PD's. Once you get sick of reading about THEM, you get to think and learn about YOU, and that's much more fun and enlightening, in fact, you are the only one of the two of you that can EVER change for the better! love~ Layla

#15 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #13)

virginia (not verified)

I guess we can't...

I guess we can't make rational out of irrational!

#16 Dec 22 - 7PM

walking_on_sunshine

Is he jealous? Was he mad

Is he jealous? Was he mad simply because you were late or did he think you were late because you were with someone else and fooling around on him?

#17 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #11)

virginia (not verified)

You suspected what I wondered too...

He always told me that I was honest to a fault, but I do think that because he was at the hospital and I was at home, he felt a lack of control and power about what I may be doing. He felt de throned. He kept asking me as he was mad, "How could you know when you called me at 8:30 in the morning that you could not pick me up by 11:00 a.m. Instead you tell me that you may be running an hr. late. How did you know that you were going to be late that early in the morning?" He harped on that about 10 times. When I answered him and told him that I was busy doing chores and that since I am the "what if" thinking kind of gal and knowing that he is anal and rigid, that I would forewarn him that I might be late. He would not accept my answer and he would keep berating me. I finally yelled, "I know what you are thinking, you are thinking that I may be needing an extra hr. for an affair or something." He passed over that and never said anything about my response. He just kept saying, "I was helpless and sick and you left me at the hospital as if you didn't care." I said, I have never treated you like that and you know how you have admitted to me that I spoil you rotten."..So, from your reply and question to me on this forum, I think we both figured out that he was indeed suspicious and paranoid...Thanks for confirming my thoughts here...What a fun way to live :( ...Oh, and maybe he was suspicious because he is a CN and he withholds sex from me for power...

#18 Dec 22 - 7PM

Susan32

Some of them even MARRY!

I read here of Ns/Ps who are still single&childless and think,"Thank God, they haven't enslaved a woman for life, or have children at their mercy." In a sense, an N who doesn't marry (or cohabitate) or have kids does A LOT less damage. If Ns/Ps fear commitment, why do they move in with boyfriends/girlfriends? Why do they go so far as to marry and have children? It's to give a semblance of normality and respectability. It's not about love&having a deep emotional commitment... it's about meeting their needs for sex, admiration, money, looking good&normal. When an N marries, it isn't about forming a community out of love... it's about getting more NS.

#19 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #6)

Goldie

You nailed this Susan

Exactly why they marry. Get this ladies and you will spare yourselves years of pure hell and torture. That ring and walk down the isle is not the big prize. The big prize is when you are able to get out or they do it for you because you can no longer "play the game." Run run away from those city lights and those church bells because you have been saved from the day to day insanity which spells A LIFE WITH A NARC. God bless, Goldie

#20 Dec 24 - 11AM (Reply to #7)

Redhead

Goldie

Ohhhh so true. Mine married me....not for love or to form a loving bond & spend a lifetime together. Oh hell no!! I come from a well respected family in the area with connections. We worked in the same field at the time, and I am well known & respected in that field. I also have my own resources, which he helped himself to. Goldie is right - the prize came when he left. Thank goodness we didn't have any children who were harmed in this horror picture. Do not marry these disordered men........RUN!!!!!!!!

#21 Dec 24 - 12PM (Reply to #9)

virginia (not verified)

My CN told me a year ago...

My CN told me a year ago during one of many breakups..."I am tired of being alone and single. I am the only one in my family who is always alone without a partner. Life is meant to be shared." Note: He would try to include me sometimes at family gatherings so he would look normal by being a couple. Other times, he would sabotauge our relationship and I would have to leave right before special events with his family...Go figure?? I would never marry anyone again. My male counselor has said, "What guy wouldn't want you? You have so many wonderful traits about you that are hard to find these days." Well, I can't seem to find a man out there who deserves it, or who can even be half way decent so far. Been married 3 times by 53 yrs. old...I am done!

#22 Dec 24 - 11AM (Reply to #8)

Redhead

AND........

used me for everything icluding my soul for the next 10 years!!!

#23 Dec 22 - 7PM (Reply to #2)

virginia (not verified)

29 yrs. ago, my N was married to a psyche nurse for 10 yrs....

My CN was married for 10 yrs. to this psyche nurse. His adult daughter is the one who told me about her mom's specialty in nursing. N told me she was a "nurse" only. I just wonder how he could have pulled that off for so long. Then my N lived with a paralegal for 5 yrs..How did he ever manage that live in situation with her too for so long, when he breaks up with me every 3 wks. I was married for 28 yrs. and my ex husband told me that I am easy to live with and a special person? I just wonder how the N pulled it off with OW and not with me? These woman were intelligent. I don't think they would have been the door mat type...

#24 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #5)

A Narc Encounter

Appearing Stable Past

I wondered also. But I know mine married a Mexican girl to start with and was married 20 years. He was tall and gorgeous and she was short and heavy set. A photo of them together was very odd. Not to put her down at all-but he married the most homely he could find so she would never, ever leave him. This made him an Instant God (InstiGod) [patent pending] and that God had 3 kids as a result. The kicker is--SHE LEFT HIM!!! HAHAHAHHA. She kicked him out of their mansion after 20 years and forbid him to see his own kids for a while. Well, he had a nervous break down--so I heard. She did the right thing. The stuff she had to put up with for all those years. I guess when he announced late in life he was going to "let his aged mother move in" she said the "hell you are--bye bye" He ran the "Mommy" thing by me to feel me out about caring for your parents--and I said "Is she not the one who made you mentally ill in the first place and drank through your entire child hood?" He forgot he confided that small issue to me. So maybe expand your imagination to what he settled for in the past as not to be alone. And they may have been borderline too-giving him a real challenge. Professional positions mean little, my N is a lawyer.

#25 Dec 22 - 8PM (Reply to #3)

Susan32

Keeping up appearances

The ex-Psych who cruelly and publicly D&D'd me is still married to the woman he impregnated after ditching me. My friends tried to console me with "it's not going to last, he only married her because she bore him twins"-but I don't believe in MY happiness depends on whether he's in a relationship (or not) I came to the realization of MY unhappiness with him, how alone I felt with him, his tantrums&ST... I would NOT want to be married to him&have his kids. I dreamt of marrying him... I did have those dreams... but the reality would've been a cruel nightmare. Ns/Ps can have long-lasting marriages, especially if one of the partners is codependent, another Narc... or in the rare case, as Sam Vaknin put it, a saint. Leo Tolstoy was a MAJOR Narc;he was married to Sofia for nearly 50 years. One can look at the President and his First Lady as a pair of Narcs who've made it work. "These women were intelligent. They were not the doormat type"-And here comes the fourth type, the one that Vaknin doesn't mention... the normal person that gets conned, but then gets out. Ns/Ps can fool even intelligent people. Robert Hare, who has written extensively on psychopaths, was duped by them... and he's a respected, intelligent psychiatrist.

#26 Dec 24 - 12AM (Reply to #4)

virginia (not verified)

Just read your reply...

Thank you for your reply...It was good.

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