I need real advice..please don't be too tough...

65 posts / 0 new

#1 Aug 17 - 9AM

sarah787

I need real advice..please don't be too tough...

You guys are the only people that will listen. So, please try to understand where I am coming from.

I spent the whole evening w/ my ex last night. After 6 months he wants me back. And after all this time I still feel so in love with him. There is something different about him since he isn't living with his parents anymore. He seems calmer, sweeter, just different. Should I fall for this? Should I risk everything? We went though every last issue. He told me how slow we will take it, and how all he wants me is to be happy.

Is it possible that they can change? Should I believe him? It feel so right..but my friends and family will HATE me. They probably won't talk to me for awhile.

I'm 23. Maybe I need to get burned again. I don't know..but I truly truly love him. What do I do?

#2 Aug 21 - 2PM

faithinthefuture

To all of you

I have read and reread this post for 2 days. I too was a woman who fell from grace for the N. I have so many emotions going on right now I can't even put them into words. Your honesty and compassion and understanding and raw emotions have touched me like no other words here have.

#3 Aug 20 - 8PM

jaycee

i need real advice

Sarah, The only advice I can give you is to run while you can. they don't change I was once twenty three, young and beautiful and such a good person, I couldnt resist everytime my N came back, telling me he missed me and loved me and wanted me, now twenty four years later, I have just thrown him out for good, he cheated the entire marriage, even while i was pregnant with our children, I didnt know then, or I guess I pretended it couldnt be happening. If you think the pain of loosing him now is unbearable, stay with him and the pain will become so physical you will hardly be able to function. I am only telling you this, as I wasted twenty four precious years of my life thinking the illusion of my N and our marriage was real, everytime he cheated and I found out, I forgave him, he walked out on us when our children were only six and eight, and like a fool I took him back, believe me I just wanted my family so desperately, he was gone, well living with some whore for almost two years, although he kept his foot in the door the whole time, coming by daily telling me he missed me, loved me, etc.....same thing he is doing now, the only difference is this time I threw him out, but the pain is so physical and so overwhelming its sickening. Please love yourself enough to move on now, you are young and beautiful and deserve a life with a man who will love you and only you, and not be searching for the next source of supply everyday. Love yourself, dont be me.........Jaycee

Jaycee

#4 Aug 20 - 8PM (Reply to #63)

Jewwell

To be 23 again . . .

Move on!! You have your whole life ahead of you!! I met my husband when I was 19 -- way too young to get involved in a serious relationship. This is just one of many reasons i was vulnerable when I met the N/P.

#5 Aug 19 - 4PM

smileyfacepr

sarah

oh boy sound tempting huh? Just what we all want..for them to come back and tell us how much they miss us and what a mistake they have made and how much they love us! I dont think they r capable of change, but to be honest w/u..if my ex came back and told me all I wanted to hear I dont know how I would react even a yr after NC, but I would be very careful to think my decision thru and after everything is he really worth it? All the hrt uv been thru has he cared? No they dont care, hes prob out of supply..would u be able to handle another break up w him or will u kick urself in the ass the rest of ur life?? THE BEST PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR! GOOD LUCK W/UR DECISION JUST DONT JUMP CAUSE HE SAYS JUMP!! XOXOX

smileyfacepr

#6 Aug 19 - 1PM

Lim

I am grateful you asked this question

My exN is back and in full throttle. I, too, am questioning my every move...what I should do next...has he really changed? Does he mean it this time? My husband and I are going through counseling and I have the exN doing everything in his power to woo me back. It is daunting to say the least. Talk about confused. Reading all of this reminded me that I need to think a million times over what my next move is. I probably shouldn't even think. I should just run! Thanks everyone.

#7 Aug 19 - 2PM (Reply to #55)

better off

Your next move

No contact. That's your next move, and the next and the next. Do you see how you're thinking in terms of a game? What's your move, what's your strategy? Is that really how you want to live? Playing an elaborate game? With someone who will NEVER get tired of it... who has played this game since he was out of a crib, and will play it til they bury him. The harder he has to work to woo you back, the harder the dump will be after he does so. I believe that with every fiber of my being, and I can tell you that there is NOT ONE STORY on this board that ends any differently. He is trying to woo you back because you have moved on and are working on your marriage... if you wanted HIM back, he would ignore you. That's what they do, they ARE all the same, and they all will NEVER change. That's why it's called a personality disorder. He utterly betrayed you. If you let him have contact with you, he will continue to disrupt your life and you will never get to a better place, with or without your husband. (Trade places with your husband for a few minutes... how would you feel if he'd had an affair, it blew up in his face, he decided to go to counseling with you, and yet he was still playing idiotic games with a crazy woman? You wouldn't like it, I'm guessing.) If, for the sake of argument (because it's in no way TRUE), this N was really who you were meant to be with, blah blah blah (and if he were, then he wouldn't have just screwed you over ROYALLY like he did, and still chasing other women at the same time -- HELLO?), but if he is The One for you, then he is. If he is somehow your mystical destiny (which actually does not exist ladies, and we need to be grownups about that), then leaving you alone for a period of time, at least six months, while you explore counseling with your husband... to determine what is best for you.. that really couldn't derail mystical destiny, could it? Wouldn't it give you an opportunity to discover some things for yourself? True love and mystical destiny would step aside for whatever is best for you, Lim... but no, it's not true love, it's childish obsession with wanting his toy back. Not because he likes that toy, but because someone else might play with it. Love would actually give you room to grow, childish obsession says I must have you NOW, no matter what is best for YOU. What does a toddler do with that toy he had to get away from some other kid? Cherish it? Or throw it on the ground? It's about GETTING IT, not having it.

#8 Aug 20 - 8PM (Reply to #56)

anonymous

Better Off - Need Your Advice Please

Better Off, you wrote to Lim, "if he is The One for you, then ... leaving you alone for a period of time, at least six months, while you explore counseling with your husband... to determine what is best for you.. " I am petrified that that is exactly what my N is doing by not contacting me for the last 6 months since I initiated NC. I'm afraid he's lying in wait. And that he'll somehow know when I've managed to stop thinking about him so much and he'll move back in for a second kill. You've read my story and you know what a predator he is. But I'm petrified that, despite how strong I've grown over the past 6 months, I'm still not strong enough to withstand a second attack. The 10% crap again. I could use one of your great pep talks. (I sent you an e-mail in case you'd rather e-mail me directly). How did you get it so that your N finally left you alone once and for all? And did he ever try to contact you after a long period of NC? And was it just time that helped you see him for what he was and get over it? I know all of this stuff. And I know what I need to do but still miss the ideal him although that is lessening day by day. Thanks!

#9 Aug 21 - 2PM (Reply to #57)

better off

I was being the devil's

I was being the devil's advocate about The One thing...because I don't really believe in that (though I did when I was still under the spell myself). My point to HER was that if her N was really the one for her, and the one person she was supposed to be with in all the universe -- which is ridiculous, and a form of magical thinking -- then, if we are going to use magical thinking, even in those terms, whatever is happening now will not stop destiny and if she were really MEANT to be with him she would later, and he wouldn't have to act this way in order to yank her back into his world. They try to make you feel some kind of false sense of urgency just to keep you hooked. See... when you apply logic to magical thinking, it loses its power. No matter how strongly you think you FEEL that this person is your destiny, it is not true. It's brainwashing. The N makes ALL his victims feel this way, so of course it cannot be true! And if she listened to him, he'd dump her again anyway! And he's after other women anyway! My post was about Lim's situation, and in HER situation, her N is coming after her "full throttle" she said. Is that a loving thing to do, or a selfish thing? Under the spell, you will interpret it as undying love for her, but outside of it it's clear that he is being a selfish bastard. He had his chance, let her EXPOSE herself and wreck her life, and then he dumped her. He was simultaneously pursuing someone else (at least one), and now, he's trying to drag her back into his sticky, sticky web. That is not love. Please don't extrapolate something completely different in application to YOUR situation. You are in a different situation. Yours is not in contact with you right now and you don't know if he will come back... some wait 20 yrs and think they can recycle you. My pep talk for you is that he is 100% a psychopath and you have a 100% chance of being damaged by this lunatic. THERE IS NO 10% CHANCE OF ANYTHING! There is no chance. He cannot be normal. In your own words, he is a bipolar, drug using, narcissist. There is ZERO percent chance of him not being that. What you need to do is make sure he's blocked from texting you, calling you, or emailing you... and you work on your own program. Number one, is that you need to read, read, and read some more on psychopaths and narcissists. You need to spend the time he DOES leave you alone getting it through your head what he is and isn't capable of, and that he CANNOT and WILL NOT change. Ever. If he's ignoring you, he has other supply. If he ever comes back it will be because his supply sources had run out and he thought he'd see if could recycle you again. If he ever comes back it will NOT be because he loves you, no matter how much you would like that to be true. Use this time to get to know what pathology is, and even better, to get to know YOU, and to heal from all the past hurts that led you into this relationship. You have plenty there to deal with! :) Mine completely discarded me. I used to feel rotten about that and actually wish mine would contact me again... I couldn't believe all these other women had their narcs coming back for them all the time, and mine was content that I did not exist to him. NOW, in hindsight, I am grateful for that, and I think God knew I couldn't have handled it or something. He came around once about six months ago... slinking around the edges, putting out some bait to see if I would respond to him... in the past I would have called that "reaching out" but now I see that he's ABNORMAL and won't just contact me, but is such a coward he drops bait with other people I know to see if I will come to him (which, why not, it worked before, he'd trained me to do it that way). I got very upset, it was almost a year to the DAY that we stopped talking to each other. I did a little digging... and I was able to see that he went right down the line, trolling trolling trolling with a list of people, man, women, people he told me he hated... so I didn't even the luxury of thinking he was even after me and my supply... LOL. He was after ANY supply... I'm sure he scrounged some up somewhere. I completely ignored it. I have it fixed now so I can't even see if he does that again. I don't know anything about his activities. So if he does come slinking around, I won't even know it. I think there is zero chance of him contacting me directly. He is another country now as well, so that makes a difference in my case of course.

#10 Aug 21 - 7PM (Reply to #58)

anonymous

Spot On - as Usual

Thanks so much. You are so helpful to me. Something about the way you write really resonates. Yeah, isn't it sick, but sometimes I'm jealous of how the others Ns are in contact all the time. But then I'm grateful that I don't hear from him because I don't want that drama. You're right he has supply - a new job and he's brilliant when he's new on the job and hypnotizing everyone. He gets stressed about 6 months into any new job, however, because the veneer starts to wear thin and it becomes obvious to everyone around him that he's a selfish little bitch who cannot handle an ounce of stress. It's funny you mentioned about the cowardice in putting feelers out rather than direct contact. He did that a couple of weeks ago. At the time I thought nothing of it but after reading your post, I realize he probably was hoping that I might send an e-mail myself, sparing him from having to act like he gives a shit. I get it. I have ZERO chance of being happy and 100% chance of being hurt by this Psychopath. I get it, I get it, I get it. Someday, I hope I can really believe it with my heart. =(

#11 Aug 22 - 12PM (Reply to #59)

better off

Hugs

Yeah, mine had often made comments that ANYTHING had its luster wear off after 4 to 6 months... then he has to find something else, basically. How does a 45 yr old man not see how immature that thinking is? Listen, I want to be clear about something. It's really a lost effort to "convince your heart" of something. I mean, your heart is your heart. It feels what it feels. Love is love, it doesn't always make sense. It's okay to feel whatever feelings you have, just not to let them RULE you. Feelings just are, and they are an important part of us, but when we know that there is a truth that transcends those feelings, we need to FOLLOW truth and not FOLLOW our feelings. Does that make any sense? This is a poor example but you can love chocolate for instance, and be allergic to it. So you cannot eat it, and you accept it, but that doesn't mean you will stop liking it. Or maybe peanuts are a better analogy, since peanut butter might taste good, but if you have a peanut allergy, even being near peanut oil, or something ELSE that was near it... any contact AT ALL will kill you. So.. no peanuts. And people with that kind of allergy have to be extra cautious about their environment. But I am really digressing! I actually came on to say that in a weak moment (usually caused by fatigue in my case), I can still miss "him," pretend guy. After this much time, I can say that what I miss was the friendship we had... not the attention. I've found a lot of fulfillment in other areas now. But I can't entertain ideas of being friends with him. It doesn't mean I don't ever FEEL like I wish I could. I just know that it is impossible. I can't touch peanuts. ;) Anyway... earlier in this process I just accepted that I had a love-bond to this person, despite anything else. It was sad but true. And since we are normal, we love and don't just turn it off like they do. So it's NORMAL to have those feelings. So.. you learn that yes, I feel love. No, I cannot act on it. That's life. That's real. They are not adults and can't handle that kind of thinking, but we can. We CAN do that. For a while, I just told myself he died. His plane crashed over the ocean, and I would never see him again, and I allowed myself that deep and real grief. Because that guy I loved, he IS dead. The real guy killed him. I kept the part I loved in a glass case in my heart... like Snow White, sleeping. I let myself have that. And I accepted that he was G-O-N-E. But I still loved him like I love other people in my life that have died. They are gone now, but I will always love them. The Real Guy that he is, existing somewhere, I don't love him. I think I told loml once that I would imagine that he had an evil twin.. and the evil twin killed the good twin... so there he is running around, looking like him and sounding like him... but it's the evil one. I'm sure this has been done a dozen times on the soaps! You know, she doesn't know it... she thinks it's her wonderful lover, but it's really not. It's the evil one masquerading as the good one... and he smirks into the camera when her back is turned... I realize some of this may sound crazy, but they were good coping mechanisms for me at the time. I found ways to move on and change my life in the meantime, so now I don't need those coping mechanisms. I had kind of forgotten about that til thinking about your sitch this morning. It's been studied and they say that women like us rank high in imagination and "fantasy" which that thought used to upset me greatly, like I have no grasp on reality or something, and I DO. But I do have a powerful and creative imagination... I use it at my job. I am able to visualize possibilites that other people cannot. I can create beautiful things where none existed before, that other people could not imagine at all. I can design, and write, and create art because of this. And unfortunately, I could envision an amazing future with a person spinning lies. He also was a master at fantasy and imagination, only it never gets further than his mouth. So he used my gift against me. I decided to use it in my favor. I did have to abandon some other imaginative ideas, such as "soulmates" and finding The One, or being The One. I did believe in that. I would vomit if I heard the word "soulmate" coming from a man now. I think every single person on this site has heard that expression coming out of a narc's mouth. I believe in strong spiritual connections with a person, close to psychic connection I think... but I also know now that such a thing can be NEGATIVE. I was strongly connected to my N. It was hard to break. But it's not impossible. And there was an affinity for each other that I don't often find with other people. He did profile me and target me... and if he wasn't a friggin nutcase, we could have gotten along famously. But of course, if he wasn't a friggin nutcase I probably would never have met him in the first place. Oh well.

#12 Aug 22 - 7PM (Reply to #60)

anonymous

Design

This is really quite remarkable. You wrote, "So he used my gift against me. I decided to use it in my favor." I used to think that P/N was the catalyst I needed to exit an empty marriage and that he was the beacon toward a happier, more fulfilled life because he led me to believe I was The One. I now realize that he was a catalyst, but it was for something far more worthy and real. I cannot believe that you are involved in the design world - I have been toying with the idea of going back to school in preparation for my second career when I'm ready to retire from the one I have and I finally got the gumption this week to do it. I visted my new school and enrolled in classes this week. It's going to take a huge commitment of time and energy but will be totally worth it. And my new career is ..... interior design. I too can design and create something beautiful for others. So I too am rebuilding my life into the life I want for me, not for everyone else. And I'm because it's the life that will make me happy, my happiness will make me a better person and the benefits of that will accrue to the people who care about me. I loved your Snow White and the glass case analolgy. It made me cry because I grieve for the loss of Ideal Guy every day. I will always love him. But he wasn't real for more than 6 months and know I have to accept that he will always and forever be dead to me. But if being with him gave me the catalyst I needed to overcome the hurts in my life and make a more authentic future, then I'm grateful. Even for the pain. You are an amazing woman Better Off. Thank you.

#13 Aug 19 - 2PM (Reply to #47)

ShaynasMommy

Lim,

" Probably shouldnt even think, just run!" Damn right! But I have one question for you. When are you going to wake up and realize to him you are just sport? Because if you fully know this, then you wouldn't be worried about what he does or his next move is, etc. What do you really want. Lim. Do you want to save your marriage, or not. Look, I'm not trying to make you upset, b/cause I don't really know you. But now Im confused as well. It seems you are still on both sides of the fence. Don't do that to your husband, he's been through enough. If I'm not mistaken, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but you said that this would be your 2nd affair??? If you are in therapy with your hubby only half heartedly, then that is being very cruel and non productive. If you have been reading enough posts on this board and have familiarised yourself with the concepts of who N's are and how to fix the problem, namely go NC, then you wouldnt have to think about your next move. The only move you need to make in this game is NC and end the f****ing game. period. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but you need to look at some harsh realities. And when ladies come to this board to heal from their own experiences, they also have to come to terms that if they were with the N extramaritaly, then there isnt going to be a whole lot of sympathy for that. Youre in a mental frenzy, honey, and you need to snap out of it. Make a decision, stop prolonging everyones pain. N is a dog, and you are his chew toy right now. im sorry if this pisses you off, but it had to be said. I hope you can be forgiving.

#14 Aug 19 - 2PM (Reply to #54)

Lim

I'm very forgiving

OMG, it's what I need right now. You shaking the living shit out of me telling me this is nothing but crap. I definitely am in a mental frenzy. I won't argue there. I'm in counseling with my H to help us both understand how we got where we are. There are no promises for what will happen in the end, but we owe it to each other to figure this all out. And, yes, I need to be there for him 100%. I do owe him that. Without a doubt. Am I proud of having two affairs? Absolutely not. It sickens me. But my therapist and husband agreed that he was partially to blame for not giving me what I needed even though I told him repeatedly over the years. I will tell you, there are more of us "other women" out there than one can imagine. Doesn't make it right at all. I use to be the one who wasn't very sympathetic to a cheating man or woman. That is, until I became one. You never know what is going on in someone else's life and I quickly realized I wasn't one to judge at all. No matter what the issue. I also see that there are a lot of women here who are dealing with the same issue of being pulled back in by the N. Extramaritally or not, there is no difference in how the N's treat us or react. I will also say that breaking up with the first one was far easier than this one. He wasn't an N and we handled it with dignity and respect. Thanks for your honesty. Greatly appreciate it.

#15 Aug 19 - 2PM (Reply to #48)

better off

I agree with you about not

I agree with you about not stringing along a spouse in counseling... but I will take issue about telling "ladies who come to the board to heal from their experiences" who got involved with affairs with N's that there isn't going to be a whole lot of sympathy for them. I'm telling all those ladies that there is indeed sympathy for you and not to be afraid to speak. Half of us are the cheated on, and the other half are the "OW" that were as lied to and conned, if not MORE so, than the spouse. And some of us are BOTH! We are all on this board as VICTIMS of predatory narcissists, and there is a category of them that SPECIALIZE in finding unhappy married women, people who are practically dying from the loneliness and sometimes abuse (true in my case), and then taking advantage of their pain and f**king up their lives ten times more than they already were. They brainwash and manipulate and con and confuse their married victims every bit as much as the single ones... and I was definitely someone who would have said NOT ME! That would NEVER happen to me! I would NEVER do that! Suffice it to say that I have been severely humbled. The wonderful extra layers of shame and guilt are a real bonus for those of us that have fallen from grace. That's a real helpful extra burden in recovery, not to mention that it's a very painful secret, and walking around trying not to cry in front of people because you would have no explanation for the hell you are going through, is, believe me, a price that gets to be paid. So I would hope that those who haven't been down that road would be the ones to be forgiving and realize we "sinners" do pay for it, in spades, in addition to the basic suffering package afforded by narcissists. All that being said, you are right about Lim needing to make tough choices and if she's going to work on her marriage she needs to shut the door on the narc. But ladies! The difficulty in letting go of the dissonance and the confusion and the whole narc mindf**k package is still there... so it's easy to say and hard to do. But I do agree, that if you are not going to be serious about the marriage counseling, then don't go. Don't offer the false hope a narcissist does. I found out (after the fact) that my bastard exN was going to marriage counseling with his wife... I was so pissed off. And he claimed he was just going so it would LOOK like he made the effort, and that's true I'm sure, but the other reason is because he was NEVER going to leave her, even though he was pretending rather elaborately that he was. Do you know who I was mad for? For her! I was like how can you do that to her? And I hated her, believe me, after all the lies he told me about her. I could not believe that he was doing what he was doing behind the scenes and then going on these pretend counseling sessions. What a total prick. No wonder she cheated on HIM (and she did, that wasn't a lie, I could confirm it). Okay, this was very long, I'm sorry.

#16 Aug 22 - 4PM (Reply to #53)

loveofmylife

Same here

I was always the one to know that I would be completely faithful emotionally and physically in my marriage. I was always the rule follower and moral person, and would never have thought someone could penetrate that or that I would wander. So when someone did penetrate that - I thought is was "meant to be", "THE ONE", of course I feel this way - we are soulmates and we were meant to be together....because no one else had penetrated into any of my committed relationships. So I did think it meant something and that it was real....it was only when I found out he was doing similar things with many other women that I realized that it meant nothing and he was just a predator and I was extra special fun to try to "win" because I was hard to get and it did take him many years to work around the perimeter before he pierced into my relationship. I thought he was lurking around the perimeter because "he was waiting for me" and becauase I was THE ONE for him.....but he was lurking around because he was TROLLING, just like he is still TROLLING for many other people, including at least 2 - 3 other married ones. Just seeing what he can catch and I fell for it thinking I was unique. But the funny think is, he doesn't see it as TROLLING. He sees it as being a very good, close friend to a married women who has emotional needs and he sees nothing wrong with it. It sometimes makes me doubt my own perception of the situation. As you say, the "painful secret" is the killer; and it is literally painful. I bottled mine up for about 15 years and it caused me one year of clinical depression and physical disability - unable to function at all physically for one year. Then I decided to talk to free myself from that. My family has noticed that I have been very detached and distant for about 7 years now, at least. JUst last night at dinner, my father-in-law said "A penny for your thoughts LOML!" - a question I can never answer, and just made me tear up. So they just think I'm detached and have mental issues - which is the truth!

#17 Aug 19 - 8PM (Reply to #49)

Meadowbrook

Better Off

I burst into tears upon reading your post. Thank you so much for what you said about the extra layers of pain and shame and guilt that makes the hell even harder for those of us who have "fallen from grace". I am suddenly very emotional hearing someone who understands this! My therapist doesn't really "get" that this was more than just an average affair. My own sister, who has heard details of my unhappy marriage during all 13 years of it, tries to be helpful to me but I feel a subtle scorn for my sin. There's literally been nowhere to turn and no one who understands the full situation. I am also one who thought I would NEVER do this. I'm sure I've made plenty of self-righteous comments about women who have affairs and I've been seriously humbled. But I can honestly say that in spite of my anguish in my marriage I was completely and totally faithful to my husband - never even flirted with anyone else - before this N came along. He had me so fooled and I fell really hard - feeling in love for the first time in my life. The pain is tremendous. And you are right that there is no explanation to others for the crying. I think I was finally forced to confess to my husband because "it's work stress" couldn't possibly explain the crying basketcase I had become. Lim, I know the temptation of holding onto the dream. I'm not far removed enough to be the best person to give advice. But that is what it is "a dream", not real. Even if you ended up with this man you could never trust him. Could you? That's what I have had to remind myself through my whole ordeal. Hang in there.

#18 Aug 20 - 8AM (Reply to #52)

Lim

Thank you, Meadowbrook

for your understanding and support. It doesn't matter what side of the fence we are on, the turmoil is the same and it s*cks. I wish you peace.

#19 Aug 19 - 9PM (Reply to #50)

better off

Big hugs, Meadowbrook. I

Big hugs, Meadowbrook. I know how bad you feel. I don't know if you believe in God, but that is what got me through. I had a long deep painful journey with Him afterward and I have a stronger and more real faith as a result (I say painful because I confronted a lot of my own life's pain in a way I hadn't ever done before). I now despise Mel Gibson, but there is that brief scene in The Passion of the Christ, where the woman caught in adultery was taken out to be stoned (the man no where to be seen of course) and she was reaching across the dirt and the sand to touch the hem of Jesus' robe.. and he reached his hand down to her and helped her up.. "neither do I condemn you." Okay, now I'M going to cry. Anyway... we are not enemies of each other here. The wives, the OW, we are all just one of many other OW that extend thru a lifetime with them. They hurt everyone they come in contact with. We all get shit on by them. The OW think the wives must get the best deal and the wives are tormented by thoughts of the blissful OW, but all of us ended up with a big handful of NOTHING. I was in misery at home, but I never even CONSIDERED another man, I was very careful about my boundaries, etc... I met my creep online (NOT on a dating site, on a sports forum) and I felt a false sense of security in talking to him because it was anonymous at first. I never could have dreamed it would have turned out like it did. It all seems rather unreal at this point. I met him about 3 years ago, we were "just friends" at his request during the second year, and when he moved to another country 18 mos ago, I went NC, just because it was so painful to be involved with him in any way. He came back to the US for a month, by himself, and I knew if I didn't cut contact he would ruin me once and for all in that month. I didn't know much about all of this stuff then, or about all his lies... you can't regain yourself until you are NC NC NC.

#20 Aug 20 - 8PM (Reply to #51)

anonymous

Predatory Specialists

Better Off - thank you so very much for pointing out why all of us, and especially married victims of predatory specialists, are deserving of both a good swift kick in the pants AND of sympathy. For those who believe otherwise, may I kindly suggest that until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, you really have no true sense of what that person may have gone through that led them to be invovled with an N. I am forever grateful that in my case, I did not have to hide how I was feeling. My friends and family, including my in-laws, were unbelievably supportive after my P/N D&Dd me and this includes my husband. We (Lim, Meadowbrook, me and countless other victims of P/Ns who specialize in targeting sad and lonely married women) know exactly what we need to do to get these vampires out of our lives but that is easier said than done. We are all victims here.

#21 Aug 19 - 10AM

terri

I just read what Ninjagirl

I just read what Ninjagirl wrote and I will add my comments: I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH HER!!! Everything she wrote is 150% true - especially the part about waiting 6 months before doing anything. Even if you want to half that to 3 months - you should definitely still give it some time. You need that time to sort out your feelings, become clear-headed and gain an honest perspective about your situation, and as Ninjagirl wrote - get to see who he really is from watching his actions. A lot can happen with time and it will all be good for you, one way or the other. Have faith in yourself and trust that things actually do work out for the better if you let them - don't do anything now. Let go and let God, Terri

Believe in yourself!
Terri

#22 Aug 19 - 8AM

NinjaGirl

Yeah, I'm not really known

Yeah, I'm not really known for being overly gentle, but I'll try to not really unload. Sarah, you've written the following things: "I know my love for him was unhealthy. I became obsessed." "I bent over backwards to make him happy." "It's as if something in my gut told me he was no good or cheating on me, but I had no evidence. (aside from the fact he has a history of cheating and has been with over 45 girls at the age of 24.)" "If I made him angry he would breakup with me for a couple or days or maybe a week." "He once threatened to hit me so "I'd stay away from him."" "He has told me in a fight how ugly my face was...he's even pressured me sexually when I'm not up for it." I was going to keep posting quotes, but then I realized that I was quoting YOUR ENTIRE STORY. Does this not raise red flags for you?? Honey, if you're ok with these things that have happened, and want to get back with him anyway, then I say that there is something seriously wrong in your head. I don't think you should be with ANYONE right now, not even the guy who's your friend who you occasionally make out with. And how convenient that this sick, psychopathic son of a bitch suddenly wants you back after hearing that you aren't pining over him, and are instead with someone else, even if it's not a serious relationship. Do you enjoy being used? Honestly? Do you enjoy being played, manipulated, deceived, and taken advantage of? Do you have any self-respect? I'm sure I may sound "mean" right now, but I call it like I see it. If you really want to be with him, fine. But please at least give it six months before you're with him. If he REALLY loves you, he'll understand, and he'll show himself to be what he really is in those six months, and you'll be in a better place to judge. Six months isn't so long, and during those six months I really think you need counseling, prayer, meditation, and to not be with ANY guy. You need to find out how to be happy alone with SARAH. Please, give it six months, and then if you want to get back together with him, and if he's actually shown that he's willing to wait and willing to change, then go for it. I realize that despite what anyone writes, you're probably going to get back together with him right away. That makes me sad, but it's your life. And it makes me angry that a beautiful young woman would let herself constantly be abused by a sick, fucked up asshole like this. But I can't change that. Please just consider what everyone has told you. We'll always be here for you no matter what. I just really hope you come into your own strength and break this cycle of abuse.

#23 Aug 19 - 8AM

helldweller

used, awayfromhim and others

My ex husband was an alcoholic and bipolar, too. I went back to him more times than I can count. In the end, i divorced him after ten years of "marriage" in which we were separated more than not. I ended up taking my daughters out the window in a storm because he had barricaded us in the bedroom. We came back to Chicago and left him there, but he moved here too and I forgave him again, and he started hanging around here until he got drunk again one night at a party I had and slammed me against the wall. He said it was, of course, my fault for inviting him to the party. I truly did divorce him for the n, because he was so so wonderful but would not go out with me until I had filed. Today, I am where I am, four years later, dumped by the narc and blamed for the whole entire thing, drinking to make it through each day, wondering how I will function, wondering what stupid, obssessive, crazy, psycho thing I'm going to do today out of despair. My ex-hsuband blames me for the end of our marriage--even though he is bipolar, alcoholic and an arsonist. He says that I committed adultery by dating a man for two months after seven years of horror with him, after I had filed for divorce the first time, and while we were separated. THAT was what was wrong with our marriage: I couldn't keep my pants on (!?) The narc blames me for the end of our relationship: I didn't "know how to act," couldn't "just love him," "made everyone uncomfortable." I totallly get the feeling that "I truly am the crazy one, it truly is my fault." I too, went to the hospital several times, praying that they would send me somewhere, anywhere, and not back home to drink and cry and watch him anymore. They always let me sleep it off, gave me a thousand dollars worth of tests that all came out fine, gave me some literature on addiction and sent me home. The last time i went to the hospital it was the day he moved his babysitter into his old apartment, the day after he said, "Don't worry about her anymore, she is moving." (This is the woman who wants to marry him). My blood pressure doubled after I drank a bottle of vodka in about five hours. He didn't even come outside or call when the ambulance came, though everyone else on the block was in a panic about me. My ex husband was here with my daughters and he said that as soon as the ambulance left, the narc and his brother and child came out of the house, all dressed up, and drove away. I read on another site once something that I always think about. The narc picks the most stable, beautiful, accomplished, loving, decent woman he can find. He turns her, little by little, into a complete mess. Then he dumps her as he says, "Who would want you? You're a complete mess."

#24 Aug 19 - 2PM (Reply to #39)

awayfromhim

Helldweller

From what I understand is that you are still drinking. You will not function, nor will you be able to predict whether or not you will do some "stupid, obssessive, crazy, psycho thing" and the despair will not improve if you don't stop drinking. The abuse the N inflicts is magnified when you add alcohol to the mix. What I knew about myself was that if I continued to drink I would not only destroy myself but he would win. And at one point all that matters was that He Did Not Win. When I drank I became the loon he told me I was but when I was sober, he didn't have anything he could say. It was rough filing for divorce, going through it, leaving the home, and being sober the entire time, but I would not have had it any other way. Don't let him win. I am not an AA member or some holy roller. I am simply saying that no matter how shitty things become, my worst day sober was a hell of alot better than my best day drunk. Again, don't let him win. Every time you pick up a drink you add another point to his scorecard.

#25 Aug 19 - 4PM (Reply to #40)

helldweller

awayfromhim

So very true. This is the first day I have not drank in the past four years, and I feel 1000% better. It's so sad, because every single day I told myself I had to stop for my daughters but I couldn't, just couldn't, because of the narc. Today I said, "I cannot drink anymore. I lose myself every day." And I haven't. And I am calm, I am stable, I feel sane for the first day in all this time. Saner, even, than before things went south with the narc, because he and I drank together every day, so I was always in this sort of altered state with him, always, from the beginning. I have not felt how I feel, by myself, in almost four years. Thank you.

#26 Aug 19 - 5PM (Reply to #43)

awayfromhim

Here's a tip - if you've

Here's a tip - if you've been hitting it heavy for four years, in a few days you may not feel too good. Think of a plan already as to what you could do to handle it. If I craved, I had some Oreos and milk. :-) Something sugary is good. A fruit smoothie is refreshing too. If I was stressing, I exercised. I kicked things (not living), I cried. Drinking goes along with not wanting to feel and then when you start to feel, you don't know what to do with it because it just feelsâ€¦.bad. I remember the first time I felt happy and that even felt weird. Just keep telling yourself you won't drink no matter what. He will not win if you stay sober. And when the feelings come, just ride with them. I had days I didn't belong out in public. :-)

#27 Aug 19 - 5PM (Reply to #42)

awayfromhim

Here's a tip - if you've

#28 Aug 19 - 4PM (Reply to #41)

better off

Hugs... drinking just adds

Hugs... drinking just adds to the depression as well. So it exacerbates the bad feelings and makes us think we are that depressed about our "love" when it's half because we drank too much yesterday. I did the same thing. It definitely made it worse.

#29 Aug 19 - 5AM

awayfromhim

I loved mine too. I was 21

I loved mine too. I was 21 when I married him. I am 51 today. I filed for divorce 14 years ago and reconciled. He's an abusive alcoholic N. Put another way one could call him a nasty prick. He knew why I was divorcing him so he went to AA, an abuse counselor whom I never met, and turned into the guy who I had been waiting to return to me. I was beyond happy. A few weeks into reconciliation he went right back to the behaviors he had before. And he blamed them all on me advising me that if only "I" had stuck to the agreements we had to reconcile all would be ok. Huh. I had not agreed to anything - he was the problem that had to be fixed, not me. From years of emotional abuse, I fell into the circular pattern of wondering what the hell was going on and why the hell I was so messed up. Unfortunately, even though his physical abuse stopped, he ramped up the verbal abuse, gaslighting and crazymaking. Many years later I was self medicating with alcohol, working diligently to just do something right while he reminded me consistently that I was incredibly flawed and no matter how many therapists I went to, I would never be able to pay my "fake friends" enough to make me better. One year before I filed and after a couple ER trips trying to get someone to put me away in a psych ward, I put the booze down after finding a fake friend (aka therapist) who told me about narcissism. Once I knew and understood, I did what I had to do to get away from him. I would not want anyone to go through what I did but you have your choices. You know what narcissism is. Don't let what he says or does take away that knowledge. Don't reconcile.

#30 Aug 19 - 7AM (Reply to #27)

Used

users story

by the time i was married 9 years i was on so much medication, it would have knocked out a horse, i hardly knew what day it was, he was very good about always going to get my medication, it was only when someone pointed out later, he made sure i took it too, to keep me submissive, i was practicly in a fog all the time, even when i look back to those times, i cant remember hardly anything about them, i do remember thinking i will never be free, not while ime taking all this, i also gained somuch weight i could hardly walk, he had me where he wanted me all the time, he bought in goodies for me to eat, as by then i ate nonstop. i hate my exh today, cos his tale to people was i cant work i have to look after my name, yeah right, he wanted and got a feisty girl, then proceded to try and break her, well i got off most of them, without him knowing, began a diet[got builima] cos ate what he bought me then went and vomited it all up, it was a long and terrible journey, and looking back i dont know how i survived, when he saw the weight coming off, i then got anorexia and refused to eat at all, his idea of helping me eat was to grab the top of my hair and say eat that f...ing chicken or i will ram it down your throat. i got out, cos of beign ill,i told him to go or i would starve my self to death, and he wouldnt like the message that would have sent out, not mr good guy he moved out, to look good, telling people, that it was to help me get better, well i did, and thats why i am here to tell the tail, and this board has been tremendous, i was 16, when wed i was46, when i got out,

#31 Aug 19 - 7AM (Reply to #28)

Goldie

Your story brought tears to my eyes

Dear Used, So very sad how he brought you right down to his level so he would have complete control and you survived and pulled yourself out of it. That took so much courage and I am so glad that you were able to do this for yourself. This would have been my fate as well had I stayed. The notion that they intentionally break us down and want us weak is one of the aspects of this thing that still boggles my mind. I believe it, it just makes me sick to think about such willful manipulation of another human being for one's own personal gain. Sounds so diabotical. Crazy stuff. You have a powerful story and thank you for sharing and making it out, your words will stay in my mind if I am ever tempted to go back I will remember. God bless, Goldie

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