The Path Forward Virtual Retreat Febuary 2021!



I know I should be happy...but am hurt that ex-N never contacted me again

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Dec 14 - 8PM (Reply to #16)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

Leah

One of the main characteristics in these guys' dear, beloved relationships (that is, not the relationships with us) is the distance. I am quite aware that the second I became part of his real life, his ordinary, everyday life, I was done in his mind. They do not want stable of any kind. They do not want real of any kind. They want unstable, catch as catch can, exciting, open-ended, ever-changing. My narc's other woman is his ideal: she lives thousands of miles away, comes in to see him every month, and he meets her in a hotel and has a mini vacation with her and his child downtown, shopping, swimming, sightseeing. I remember when I was a college kid and thought it was great to visit a boyfriend or a military guy or whatever over the weekend, taking the train, being in a different environment, being away from reality and just enjoying the different place. WHEN I WAS TWENTY!
Dec 15 - 9PM (Reply to #21)
Leah
Leah's picture

Heldweller, my therapist said to me that

my ex-N was perfectly comfortable maintaining an ambiguous, long-distance relationship. And when he visited me here on the East Coast, since it wasn't his territory, and because it was in the idealization phase, he was really happy to be here and was really excited about me. When I went to visit him, I became 'real,' and the therapist thinks this didn't work for him. He didn't want a real woman or a real relationship. He didn't really want me to visit him. He didn't like me invading his territory. He just liked 'having me around' long-distance to support him through tough times, and he could also leech my love and light. He never wanted me to appear in the flesh in the first place, even though weeks before, he had literally begged me to drop my life here and to join him in his home. Total crazy-making. Ugh. Thanks for sharing and listening. Now this makes so much more sense to me. Really. Hugs of thanks, Leah
Dec 15 - 8PM (Reply to #18)
aceonelady
aceonelady's picture

helldweller,leah...distance

Yes i live in Euroe he in the USA ....the day i bought the ticket to go visit him,(he was asking me to go there for almost a year)i called him,he answered the phone,said hello and went on talking bullshit with a girl co worker ,so i said hey,i am still here...he started screaming saying i was being rude and that i had to shut up...that he was exchanging ringtones for their cellphone...i felt like the earth under my feet was opening and i was sinking in ...He could have answered the phone and said,listen i can't talk now call back later...no,he had to mistreat me in front of this girl,he was screaming and raging,and when i told him this is no way of treating anybody on the phone specially a person that he says he loves and just bought a very expensive ticket to go be with him,he told me to get off my high horse,the world do not revolves ariound me and he hang up on my face....Later,he called me on Skype and actted like nothing had happenned...and me,i was devasted,but just kept my mouth shut to avoid more problems,and thought it was the stress he felt because he had waited so long for me to go there...when i got there,he D&D me in a terrible way ,after having sex with me 48 hours after my arrival...and when my flight arrived,he was waiting for me at the Airport,talking to an Utility worker girl,and when i walked towards them,that girl runned away from him,saying...I have nothing to do with him,he knows my cousi...and he told me later i should have waited when i arrived and not have walked towards him...when we got to his appartment his boss called asking if i arrived ok,he said Yes she did but i am trying to fit her in my busy schedule...he works as a maintenance guy at Housing Authority,from 8 till 5...I thought i was dying already,and i just got there an hour and all that shit happenned already...and i just kept my mouth,not wanting to destroy things...i am crying as i write this...Please read my story...Love to you all...It has been 2 years and i found out a year ago what Narcissism and psycopaths are,but still feeling like i do not know what hit me,i feel abused,raped ,and left for dead...the worst is how they can walk away with no remorse at all...He started NC,after i came back from there ,after a stay from 2 months that almost drove me to lose my life...please read my story...

Aceonelady

Dec 15 - 9PM (Reply to #19)
Leah
Leah's picture

aceonelady, re: ex-N's and distance

I think I read your story a little while back, but this weekend I'll make time to go back and read it again. I totally hear you. I had a similarly strange experience when I visited my ex-N. They are all the same. See what I wrote a little above your post, in response to Heldweller... about what my therapist told me. I hope being here on the board is helping you with your recovery. I don't think I'd be able to recover without this board and all of you. Thanks for being here and being supportive and sharing. Sending lots of hugs, Leah
Dec 15 - 9PM (Reply to #20)
aceonelady
aceonelady's picture

Leah re distance...aceonelady

Thanks Leah...i feel for all of us,and our stories just really show that doesn't matter what we have done to meet their needs and loving them,when they are done with us they are done....Hughs ...Thanks for sharing and being supportive...

Aceonelady

Dec 14 - 10PM (Reply to #17)
Leah
Leah's picture

Heldweller, wow, the distance factor is really true, isn't it?

That's amazing. So I'm not imagining that am I? Thanks so much for sharing that. Everybody's posts remind me that all of these narcs are the same, just with some minor differences. The more I hear the similarities between other narcs and my ex-N, the more it stinks in that my ex-N was as toxic and f*ckd up as I felt it was. I look forward to leaving the 'shock' stage soon... Much thanks, Leah
Dec 14 - 3AM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Hmmm, let's reword this a

Hmmm, let's reword this a little bit. You should be "happy" that you got dumped? That you invested a lot of time (and money) in a long distance relationship to the point you made plans to move out to be near him, and had him suddenly discard you like you meant NOTHING to him? Happy about that? See what I mean :D What you feel is normal, par for the course. It just SUCKS. You are "shoulding" on yourself a bit much here. And don't you dare start shoulding on yourself for shoulding on yourself :D Why on God's green earth would you be HAPPY about any of this? I think "gratitude" is more accurate, and that just won't come for a little while yet. When the cognitive dissonance dies down a bit more, perhaps. You just had a horrible thing happen to you. Even though it happened more than two months ago, you still have only been "working" on it from this angle for a couple of weeks maybe? Your "NC" is really only a couple of weeks old. That business with the mutual female friend . . . ? WTH?? Sorry, but something ain't right with what she did to you (like you haven't noticed). Who knows what he said to her? And if she "connected" with you so well, and then dropped you like a hot potato, I'd say it wasn't much of a connection. Unless you tried to get her to rob a bank with you? Did you ask her to kill someone for you :D ? I didn't think so. So what the hell? Either SHE is superficial as he is, or he said something to her. And if she believed it (and doesn't see through HIM), that's not a healthy person. This relationship would have not been a good thing in the long run anyway :( I don't care what she says she IS, all that high falutin' savior of womankind stuff. She is sure quick to DUMP a woman who'd just gone through some serious HELL. Fat lot of good she's gonna do any other woman having problems. Pffft. Keep focusing on yourself. A friend of HIS cannot possibly be a friend of YOURS. Think about it for a minute or two. Don't be fooled by what people SAY they are, watch what they DO. This woman is a dumper just like the Narc. To hell with her. It means nothing about you! Unless (like I said) you tried to get her involved in your ponzi scheme :D
Dec 14 - 3PM (Reply to #2)
Leah
Leah's picture

Briseis, you know me well

You're right, I often do the 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' to myself. And tears came to my eyes when I read the first paragraph. It's still fresh for me. It feels like the D&D happened yesterday. Yes, it's difficult to feel gratitude for him not having contacted me. And I trust that in the future I will feel grateful... just not yet. I have to say, I wish I had never contacted his friend. I did it at a time when I felt completely devastated, and was hoping 1) that there was still hope of some good coming out of the ex-N relationship...her friendship & 2) that she would provide some guidance as to how to reconnect him, even if it would only be as 'friends'. If I hadn't contacted her, maybe he would've contacted me... I think someone above posted that by my contacting her, he experienced it as a narcissistic injury, and wrote me off for good. It was only after she went MIA that I remembered how he had told me at the beginning of the relationship that he had a lot of trust and abandonment issues. His wife cheated on him and left him (10 years ago), and because he has shared custody, he was always talking about her in scathing terms. I have a feeling he interpreted my contacting his friend as ultimate betrayal, which is not what it was. At the time I desperately wanted to contact him, but because of the way he D&D'd me, I was afraid to contact him...and wanted her advice. I didn't say anything negative about him to her; in fact at that time, I couldn't figure out what I did wrong for him to leave me like that, and I told her that I thought he would never speak to me again. I did tell her that I was moving to the Bay Area; I didn't tell her that with the intention of her sharing it with him. From the first e-mail, she made it clear that she wouldn't share any of our conversation with him...or at least that's what she said. So maybe by his score, not only did I contact one of his best friends, but I didn't tell him directly that I was moving to the Bay Area (if indeed she told him). But I didn't contact him directly because I was afraid. His silence for those first four weeks was deafening, so I was afraid that contacting him would provoke his rage or something else that I couldn't predict. So, was it really that horrible and betraying for me to contact his friend...when he had introduced us to each other only months before, knowing full well that he & I may or may not remain in relationship? Did I really cross some kind of line that I'm unaware of? And if I did, then why was she so happy to hear from me and had so much to share about her life and had lots of questions about mine? or should I have asked for his permission, because it was his friend, and she and I had fallen out of touch? He and I had a phone call two days before the breakup. He had mentioned that he would be calling her, saying that something really challenging was going on in her life. Earlier in the relationship, he freely shared about what was going on for her. On that call, when I asked him what she was going through, he angrily said to me, 'Are you in contact with her?' When I told him, 'No, she hasn't written to me in several months, and I haven't wanted to bother her,' he said that he wasn't comfortable sharing about her life with me, if she hadn't told me directly. It was very strange... he had never spoken to me like that before. It was like he was keeping a secret from me, just to spite me. I will always wonder if he would have contacted me, if I hadn't contacted his friend. I think I would've just felt some kind of self-satisfaction to receive contact from him, even if I didn't want to reply or respond. and even though I shouldn't care how he feels, if indeed my contacting her really hurt him... I feel bad about that. It never once crossed my mind that by contacting her I would be betraying him. If I had thought of that, maybe I wouldn't have contacted her. Despite the fact that he's a mentally disturbed jerk, I didn't want to hurt him; it's not my style. I guess I feel regret. That's a bad habit of mine. -Leah
Dec 14 - 3PM (Reply to #11)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I know myself well, and the

I know myself well, and the longer I go at this, there's just a lot of similarities in how people feel and think after a disaster of a Narc relationship. Interesting how after he devastated you so deliberately, that you whack yourself around over the POSSIBILITY of hurting him. Contacting a mutual friend after the shock of an abrupt break up like this is what ANYONE would do. You give yourself too much credit and not enough. It's like some stuff is backwards in how you are relating to this "possibility" of hurting him. I had/have this too. It's called being raised by a PDI. I used to "hurt" my father all the time. By not cleaning my room properly so he had to switch me and then feel "bad" about it and go crawling to my mother for HIS comfort. Having a PDI for a parent is like growing up in a fun house mirror room. They reflect back to us major distortions in how we affect them. I grew up fearing my "ability" to hurt other people. I am dead serious. It is not and was not "normal". It's like I felt like I had a sinister, negative effect on people. I DON'T. I just grew up believing it because my father was a nutjob. We learn who we are from our parents. And people like you and me learn WRONG. What you DID do was natural and harmless. You just wanted to understand. If this HURT him poor wittle feewings . . . good GOD, sister! Just because someone else thinks you did something "wrong" does not mean you DID do something wrong. That is a major thing you need to wrap your head around, chickie :) Otherwise you'll be jerked around for the rest of your life by someone else's opinion of you. Your sense of worth and value as a person lies inside you ONLY. You weren't allowed to have it as a child, but now you are an adult. Claim it. It's been waiting for you all these years. I discovered that when I encountered a negative opinion of me in another person, it still hurts. But they aren't my judge and jury. I am. This is very important. And I have better relationships than EVER now. Not worse ones. I did not die, self combust, or melt when I started to tell myself "I'll be the judge of what I did wrong." It is a bad habit, alright, to sink into regret and self blame every time someone doesn't looooove you. That's all it is. Really. That is NOT your only option. Does that make sense? Your biggest problem (as I see it, so this is IMO, and in part because I have three fingers pointing back at me :D ) is that you have been taught that just meeting your NORMAL NEEDS causes other people pain. It sure does, if the other person is a PDI. But with the rest of humanity? No. And meeting your needs for closure and understanding by contacting this person? After the ringing emptiness he left you with? IT WAS A GOOD THING TO DO! Besides . . . if he got a narcissistic injury out of THAT, he's as hopeless as they come. Does he think he's God or something? That he's entitled to be angry because you talk to his friend? God! And his ex wife? I'll believe she had an affair and broke his heart AFTER I believe the moon is made of cheese. She probably dumped him and fled for her life. Please. He didn't just become a Narc when you entered the picture :)
Dec 17 - 11PM (Reply to #13)
Deidre99
Deidre99's picture

I just wanted to say wow.

I just wanted to say wow. This is an amazing post, Briseis. I cried reading it. I believe you when you say some of us just have to give this time. I had a much worse narc breakup years ago...it took a LONG time to get over. Get over, meaning, to where I didn't think about him at all. So...there is hope. I loved where you say...''It's been waiting for you all these years.'' (referencing our ability to our sense of self worth) This really helped me tonight.
Dec 14 - 4PM (Reply to #12)
Leah
Leah's picture

Wow Briseis, that really hit home

Wow. Briseis, I remember you mentioning this in a post before, but I guess it didn't sink in. Yes, I always feel like I cause great harm to people. Just saying that (I'm dictating this on Dragon NaturallySpeaking because of my arm injuries, I'm not typing), and I start to cry. Recently in my personal history statement for my grad school application, I said that my sister and I lived in that house like soldiers navigating a war zone. My mother and father both taught me that very WRONG lesson-that I cause other people pain with my everyday needs. By you reminding me of that, it really asks me to look at this from 'normal' (read: not raised by PDI parent) eyes. I didn't do anything wrong, did I? I guess therapy, coming here and going to CoDA meetings will be a start in learning how to claim that worth and value that I rarely feel for myself. Re: his friend, she made it clear that she didn't want to bring any understanding or closure to my confusion, simply by changing the topic and asking me about myself. I guess that alone wasn't very supportive of her, now that I think about it. Yeah, I guess it is pretty crazy for him to be so angry about me contacting his friend, that he rages and forbids her to ever speak to me again. And considering that she listened to him and disappeared without even the courtesy of a final e-mail, it doesn't speak much to her integrity either. Regarding his ex-wife, I have a feeling that you're right. they were together six or seven years I think, and they are total adversaries. When I visited him, he gave me a tour of the neighborhood, and he pointed out the law office where she supposedly met the man with whom she cheated on him, and then left him. Ex-N told me the story with such sadness and contempt, as if it had happened yesterday instead of 10 years ago. He also pointed out the exact spot where his father died 30 years before... also as if it had happened yesterday... with no indication of any healing work having been done. It was eerie. I also have a theory that the ex-wife may also be an N, but that's only if I believe the countless stories he told me about her crazy behavior. I'll never know what was truth and what was fiction. -Leah
Dec 14 - 3PM (Reply to #3)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

Leah Please readVIP

You need to get over the regret, you saved yourself from so many years, of wasted emotions, energy, heartbreak,, he would just go on to round 2,3, 4, and on and on with you, it is much EASIER to get over a Narc relationship before 3 years as Agnes Murphy said, longterm like mine was is MUCH HARDER to recover from and 2 years out i can testify to that. I remember writing a post here in the fall and saying maybe i should not have told the EXN that i went out for coffee with a man I met the internet at a free dating website , after we reconciled for the millionth time and she said why should you not tell the truth, after all we had broken up and he sent me back a letter I had sent him so we were DONE, she is right on and that moment I got my epipihany, he was just trying to guilt me and pull my chain because he KNOWS how to do that after 15 years, be REAL GRATEFUL and in time you will be, I guarantee it, that he dropped you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WORK ON YOUR SELF, it is the most important thing you can do for yourself to heal.
Dec 14 - 4PM (Reply to #4)
Leah
Leah's picture

Onwithmylife

Yes, I feel lucky to have only gone through a six-month relationship with my ex-N. I need to remember that...that I was spared a lot. Many of you have endured a decade or more. I can't even imagine how you coped. Thank you for reminding me to: 1) let go of regret 2) work on myself and heal Hugs of thanks, Leah
Dec 14 - 4PM (Reply to #5)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Only in for six months, Leah???

Oh, you are so lucky! If I had seen these signs even within the first three years I would have been okay leaving. At least you didn't have a big long history with all of these episodes like some of us. You are going to be just fine.
Dec 14 - 4PM (Reply to #6)
Leah
Leah's picture

StillHurting

I agree that I'm lucky. I think the reason that such a short relationship rocked me to my core is because I dropped all of my boundaries and really let him get under my skin...like he was in my skin...do you know what I mean? And because we moved so fast, even though I was still trying to figure out if I wanted a long-term relationship with him, I was totally invested in the journey and was ready to move there to be with him. I really thought that we were moving towards something serious, and it was only at the end of the relationship when I started to notice the incongruity of his behavior and communication compared with the beginning of the relationship. So I guess I feel kind of silly being so traumatized by something so short. But I guess it's because I really invested in it with all my heart, in time and money, and really didn't see it coming. The D&D is what stings the most, and it was the opposite of the man I met six months before. I'll keep remembering that I'm lucky. That is very true. I need to get perspective on this. I really do. Thanks as always, Leah
Dec 14 - 5PM (Reply to #7)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Leah

I understand that you thought it would be something. This is how normal people proceed. I thought when this guys kids were older we were going to be together. Why the hell else would I be around? We were attached at the hip practically, and it's hard for people to understand that the situation with him and his wife is very strange for sure. Other people told me also. I never felt like I was the second choice. We got along very well for a long time. Recently, when I said this has been going on forever so maybe we better take this year and spend more time together to see if we are really going to do anything ever, he tells me about the dressing. I was totally blindsided. Then I was like are you really going to stay there after your child is 17 or whatever, and he said no, I will not stay with her. He never asked me to wait around, don't get me wrong. I did it myself. I believe in love and romance and that things can work. I believe someone can make a mistake and then not want to abandon their kids. I know it is a long shot, but it was a possibility. Then I start reading about his narc stuff, and now I don't know what to think. He is losing a really great girl here.
Dec 14 - 10PM (Reply to #8)
Leah
Leah's picture

StillHurting, he is losing a really great girl

for sure. But a narc wouldn't know a really great girl if she walked right over him, right? Yeah, hopes and expectations sit deep in our psyches, don't they? I totally understand how you feel. It feels horrible. But like the others are reminding me, we will have better lives without them. I hope you feel better tomorrow. Sending hugs, Leah
Dec 15 - 5AM (Reply to #9)
Scotchy71
Scotchy71's picture

Me again

Hi Leah...the problem for us girls/guys is we ARE great and they have this really annoying way of spotting it and that's why we are here. Remember, they're too emotionally infantile to have the smarts to make a life with us and go past the honeymoon phase....that would mean they have to grow up and have an adult relationship....it would also mean admitting and realising they have to seriously care and know we have needs too, they're too selfish and lacking in empathy to fake it that far. They never progress past this stage and invest so much energy into pretending to be perfect...who could keep that up??? No one!!!! Not even the best actor. That was the only right thing he did...spot a great woman - you, he just didn't have the emotional intelligence of a grown up well balanced man to appreciate what he had - his loss, through and through and time and time again. Stay strong..we're all with you. xx
Dec 16 - 10PM (Reply to #10)
Leah
Leah's picture

Scotchy71, about the honeymoon phase

It's so funny you mention that. I visited him in August (long distance relationship). Got back home on a Tues. morning; had taken red-eye. That Sunday night (5-month mark), I told him I sensed his feelings had changed for me. He said: "To tell you the truth, Leah, I'm not as smitten with you as I was when I visited you 3 months ago." When I asked him why, he said... "Well, the honeymoon phase is over, and it's normal to not feel as smitten. Also, you still don't know where you're going to graduate school...so I'm feeling really guarded...yeah that sounds like me...I'm protecting myself." I asked him if he still wanted to be in relationship with me. He said: "I don't want to break up with you. I'm not seeing anyone else." It was the beginning of the D&D; he broke up with me 3 weeks later. Disgusting. Totally disgusting. Thanks for listening & sharing wisdom & strength. I need to hear it. And thanks for the reminder that they have heat seeking radar for our strengths. I must say, 3.5 months post-discard, I still can't reconnect to my strengths & core self. I feel totally fragmented and insecure. I've always been insecure, but this is much worse. Thanks so much for your support, Scotchy, Leah