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I just need to write, to thank everyone

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#1 Jun 20 - 6AM
Athena
Athena's picture

I just need to write, to thank everyone

Dear All,

I don't think I have been here more than 48 hours and already, just now in this moment, I am aware of how gifted I am to have had so much support across just two days, that feels so great to me at this hellish time, it coula make for a year's worth. Thank you so much everyone.

I have read and re-read, read some more and some more and yet more and with each passing moment I feel reality is shaping my thoughts better and with more clarity than ever before.

I know that in the end I and only I can make my decisions regarding this insane relationship I am in. But know that your words of gentle patience and kind wisdom are taking me to a place where I feel ever more confident of making right ones for me. Ultimately that is to leave this man and I will get there.

The journey to this point, is my present struggle all wrapped up in issues of 'stuff', I see that now.

I would like to share my reflections on all the thoughst and opinions on the man I am with. Because of you all, I have rediscovered what it means to trust my instinct, I hear and feel its strength in me.

It is telling me this: I deserve so much better than what this man is able to give me. I am a lovely woman with a most beautiuful heart that deserves to be cherished and nurtured, valued and respected.

Sometimes this man has demonstrated a capacity to fulfil what it means to love in these ways. More often than not he fails miserably, hurting me again and again in the process. He is a funny and gentle man with a loving touch and spiritual warmth. He is also a cruel, cold, calculating manipulator filled with aggression and self-loathing. I vainly believed that my love could change him, I realise how omnipotently dangerous such a magical belief has been for me.

Please trust me when I say that I took care of myself by leaving his apartment and country two weeks ago. Please believe me when I tell you that two weeks before that I moved out, packed all my things and stayed in the vacant apartment of a friend of mine. During that time I was alone and at peace, I nurtured myself and took time to reflect. I believe that was the turning point of 'this' beginning of the end. I went back, yes I did one day before I took my flight and that is why two large cases sit in his apartment. I didn't want my friend to have the responsibility of 'looking after them' and I also wanted to keep myself tied to him. Which I have done.

Now, I must get myself out of this mess and undo the tie. I have faith in myself to do this, alone, without being rescued, making an already dramatic situation more histrionic. I have read all the words that plead for me not to return, asking me to consider I will never leave, that I will be trapped. But I know this man and I know what I know now. He cannot make me do that and I know he will not try. I have a wealth of friends in his city, many of whom are aware of his behaviours. One phone call is all it will take me. So why am I going back? Forget the stuff. I am going to put an end to this, for myself. A week or two, as yet undecided and I will be gone for good. I know many of his friends who all love and adore me as I do so many of them. I am safe there, in myself, but not with him. But I am not afraid of him, I see that now, I only fele under his need for me to believe this. But the truth is I am not. I am strong and not stupid and I trust myself, not him.

I hope that as I can continue to make this journey towards the exit, I can continue to share and gain the strength that I feel grows each time I come here and read and write. I can hear myself and it is waking me up.

So thank you so much for being here.

Athena

Jun 20 - 8AM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Borderline Personality

You need to read everything you can on Borderline Personality Disorder. This is what this man is doing: "I hate you; Don't leave me." That's the Borderline PD of the Cluster B personality disorder. The Dr. Jykell-Mr. Hyde mood swings are the Narcissist PD on the Cluster B spectrum. And you should be afraid of this man. When one truly makes the final exit on a borderline -- that's when they become "fragmented and disorganized." And, if a controlling narcissist or even psychopath, at this time women can be seriously injured & even murdered. You laugh. Not my "Brillant Lawyer." Nope. This man induced you to leave your country, your job & your family . . . & proposed marriage . . . & then was not sure once you arrived. This is a very dangerous man. This is how abusers work. They get you "committed" to a position of no return. Then they start the abuse. This man is a classic. You do not have to go there to end it. It is over. I learned one thing from men years ago which has worked for them since time began: "Drop off the face of the earth." No explanations are necessary. If your cases are already packed in his apartment, then ask Mr. Brillant Lawyer to call a moving company to come & collect them and ship them to your mother's house. If he has 200 euros for a bank account, then he can also pay the shipping costs. And it's the least he can do for you after YOU quit your job to go & marry him. Any decent fellow would see the logic in that. That he wants to visit you (yesterday) maybe now he is rethinking that & only sending 200 euros now -- All this back & forth is so typical for a borderline. Think of a child being left at daycare. The child will scream & yell over this separation anxiety when the mother is leaving. But, if you've ever really taken care of childern, you know -- the mother is not even away a minute when the child is off happily playing with the other children without a thought for the mommy over whom he was wailing & weeping moments before. And these men are the same. Let me tell you. Mine begged me to stay. And asked me to "date" him after I left. Wanted me to cancel leaving that moment & "make love" to him. I almost waivered -- I still see it. The garden, & he was my husband. It was 2 o'clock in the afternoon. He told me that if I had nothing more to say he (brillant academic) was going to go to a conference at the university . . . but he would stay at home & be with me if I asked, if I wanted to reconcile. I told him to go. Later I would learn that the night before this conversation, he went out on a date with another woman. And she was there waiting for him at the conference--the second date. At three months, she moved into the house I still co-owned with my husband. At 9 months, she was engaged to my husband. Throughout this time I would receive e-mails & phone calls seeking reconciliation. At 10 months, she left him & contacted me. All the time he had kept a secret from me that he was "in love" and living with another woman. And all the difficulty he made in preventing me from going to the house to get my possessions because he was so "devastated" at my "cruel abandonment" of him. he was in "recovery" & needed his "privacy." He changed the locks on the doors which I co-owned. All the while he forgot to mention that he did not want me to come to the house because he was there with his new woman. He & I were divorced one month after the woman who replaced me left him. (When she left he tried to reconcile with me on the eve of our divorce.) That same month I happened to see him at a concert with his new woman. This woman was installed in the house within three months. The one who replaced me saw that when she was finally alllowed back in to collect her possessions. You think your's is better than this? No. I don't think so. Any man who proposes & has a woman quit her job & immigrate -- only to drop her -- is a sick, twisted, manipulative & controlling individual. These men are dangerous. And if you think you can control him or emerge unscathed or get the better of him -- you are sorely mistaken. Cut your losses. Call a removal company yourself to go get the cases & pay for it yourself & then be done with him. There is not need to see, or discuss. It's over. You are no longer there & you are no longer listening. That when it's over.
Jun 20 - 10AM (Reply to #6)
Athena
Athena's picture

Today's email from him

Thank you for your message Agnes, I had for quite some time now wondered if his push and pull style of relating was bordeline ordered behaviour. Your message made a lot of sense to me. I'm not sure I understand the 'I hate you don't leave me' dynamic. Does that mean he wants me around to hate? I always thought that he loves me when I'm away and hates me when I'm near, is that it? Thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm sorry to have read of what you went through, ,so sorry. Such betrayal I can only imagine, though it is what I feel also, deeply betrayed. This is what he wrote me today: Hi baby, I love you even when I am angry at you. I am sure we will be well together. I know how much you love me and how vulnerable that makes you some times. You just have to come here on xth! If you don't I will come there and kidnap you, that's for sure! I am feeling great baby. Back to life. I am bursting with life streaming through my body like I never knew that before. My libido is exploding and all I imagine when the hot stream of sexual energy punches me is you. I am also very eager to show you that we can be happy together actually after you join me again. Love you _____ forever. PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT DOES THIS MEAN.I want to believe him but I just can't anymore. Sorry, I just need to understand, please help.
Jun 20 - 2PM (Reply to #11)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Hate You/Love You

He says: I hate you when you drip water on the floor; I don't know if I can commit; I have doubts because x, y & z. YOU are just so x. Leave me alone, you are suffocating me. I don't think I can do this. You say: O.K. I understand you do not want this or me. I will be going now. He say: NO. NO. I love you. I have issues. (Pity play.) So suddenly he loves you when you are no longer in his house dripping water & leaving crumbs. You had to go abroad to get this kind of declarations of affection? And I thought he was flying over there yesterday. Apparently not. These guys will say anything to get you back. The minute you go back, the abuse will escalate worse than before. I hate you -- don't leave me. You are the one I love to hate & will describe to you all your faults & inadequacies & it is YOU who forces me me drink, take drugs, YOU who force me to cheat, YOU, YOU, YOU. Days of silence or criticism. LOVE for these men is that YOU will accept this cycling of theirs. This is something familiar from their past. All this instability & chaos is familiar to them & is the point of the whole relationship. And a woman who puts up with this threater & drama must also be familiar with this in her past & associates this with love. We each must examine our own families of origins very carefully when we are attracted to men who create way too much theater, drama & pain. But if ever you try to end this cycle of abuse by leaving -- suddenly they freak out like a child left at the day care center. And plead for you not to leave. The cycle of abuse is: 1. Honeymoon; 2. Build up, tensions, withdrawals; and, 3. An abusive episode of verbal, emotional or psychological or physical abuse. Then revert back to the honeymoon again. The thepory is these guys need this cycle of abuse to discharge their inner tensions. They abuse the victim, feel better, honeymoon for awhile, and then the tension builds again & they need to discharge by abusing the victim. This guy is one of them. And his e-mail above is a classic. You may think this guy is unique. But no. All abusers are alike. And this one says & does the same things as all of our former Ns. We have all received these kinds of e-mails (if he's literate to write). They like this e-mail / phone / text world -- it's impersonal. There's a safe distance between you & him. This guy has such problems with intimacy. And he's palying with your head. Look, a man wants to be with a woman, or he does not. It is really very simple. You were there, with your possessions, planning to get married, live in his country, a place you love, with the man you love. So what happened? WHy was it so complicated? Drips, crumbs, psycho-bable. Now he has a libido when you are NOT there in the flesh. Oh, please. Give me a break. This guy is really a jerk. Didn't want you when you were there to have fun with, enjoy that country, & your new life together -- but now that you are away . . . He's such a loser.
Jun 20 - 11AM (Reply to #8)
girlsinger
girlsinger's picture

Athena

Hi Athena, his first line really says it all, if you can..really read each word slowly its such manipulitive Narc/psyopath/borderline/language lets read..(BTW, notice how everything is "I") "I love you, even when Im angry at you" "I am sure we will be well together" this means "I have decided to target you,(they cant love,that is "alien" to them) it just means that you are just the right combination of vulnerable, and that you will take my unspeakble behavior, my outbursts, insanity, "Im sure we wil be well together" this means: I am sure you will be perfect supply for me, great fit FOR NOW! "I know how much you love me and how vulnerable that makes you" this means: ( Every time you come back after I have raped you of your dignity and your personhood, you show me your complete lack of self esteem, and self love, that makes you vulnerable just the way I like it, boy did I luck out you show me that because I have you under my control you will do anything and everything because you "love" me... "Im feeling great baby, back to life" "I am bursting with life, streaming through my body etc This is the chemical "high" of adrenline these are the words of a vampire that just got "fresh supply" a junkie that got his "fix" BTW, Athena, Im sorry to say this but, he is also saying: if not you, someone else(they gotta have the "fix") BTW I do promise you it will be someone else (just a matter of time, this is not even debatable) (they have a very diordered sense of beauty, time so One day you look just perfect, next month, you dont) Remember Athena..you are dealing with insanity here I personally feel that the medical world has assigned very fancy names to these disorders still in the end they are insane..and insane folks do insane things and they dont stop until you are damaged beyond repair in fact the prettier, smarter, more wonderful you are the better the 'supply" you can give after all he is "brilliant" cant be with a loser girl right? Athena, have you ever seen the MRI's of brains of people like your "brilliant lawyer"? (in between show's today I'll try and post the link) there is a part of the brain in the frontal lobe that has to do with "empathy" these folks have NO ACTIVITY there...(dosent light up) so even with the best intentions even when they are 'self aware" its still impossible thier "ELEVATOR IS OUT OF ORDER" wanna take that ride? I did..I was sure my Dr Narc was the exception almost cost me my life Athena..there comes that day when you just dont look "exactly right" to his insane eye oh and that closing line is 'classic" " I am also very eager to show you that we can be happy together, after you join me AGAIN"!!!!! AGAIN!!! this means: he just cant wait to show you what hell is really like on earth, because the first 'go around" was just "narc-light" because he already knows the end of the story (BTW they get "bored" really quickly..) and that is that you will return because you already came back and you will keep coming back AGAIN! for more!..(no wonder he is feeling so "high"!) listen, what men know (even normal ones) is that mother nature had it right that is: if they can get in your knickers even once you are producing high levels of "OXYTOCIN" (the bonding hormone) high levels of this, renders women deaf, blind, and dumb to a disordered person ( and to the normal man too) so, even if you didnt care for them at first suddenly, they become "the one" my proof? you would be able to understand his Email yourself in fact, the first sign of his insane talk/actions you would have run away, and never ever looked back it takes 2 years for your oxytocin levels to return to normal to recover from this has nothing to do with willpower, or asserting yourself you just have to surrender, and remember it's chemical...listen to many women refer to his 'smell" My exDr Narc used to give me his T-shirts to take home with me..he would ask me to wear them to sleep in he's a scientist..he knows exactly why ( I knew better, and didnt give in) Athena..that is why they really need to rush the sex thing and hook it together with "promises" ( your a woman) they MUST get thier hooks in and fast wow girl...are you really up for that? BTW if I may ask, what do you do? what are your dreams & goals? remember, there will ALWAYS be someone prettier, younger etc they are being born everyday.. GTG, got a radio show to do remember, no matter who you know, what friends you have they cannot and will not be able to help you with the mental and emotional damage you are in for yes they can rescue your body if you get stuck but "friends' that dont know this stuff (most dont) will grow very tired very fast then what? Athena, I would like to know what are your dreams for your life? we already know what his are and they are to rape you of yours be blessed k
Jun 20 - 1PM (Reply to #9)
Athena
Athena's picture

Re: email interpretation (Girlsinger)

Hi Girlsinger, Your emails read so beautifully, thanks again for the time you give of yourself in support of me. I like your spirit. Wow, what a code breaker you are! It definitely provoked a lot of thought in me regarding my relationship both with him and myself. We had a row the night before he sent this email so in this context I understand his: 'I love you even when I am angry at you' as typifying the borderline's emergent process (if they ever stick a relationship long enough for it to be catalysed) of recognising that you can both love and hate someone at the same time, that you can be angry at someone you love and the vague notion begins to take root that that person will remain in possession of all the things that you love about them in spite of hating them or feeling angry with them. In other words the omnipotent phantasy of the borderline's ability to destroy becomes challenged by the experience of love. The projective mechanism of splitting fails to keep 'good and bad' as polarities any more, in the way it once did. So from an therapeutic point of view, his line is actually positive. Actually in all he wrote it was the line about my being vulnerable that struck me the most, better to say disturbed me more than any other. And again on reflection I realise that this is pure projection on his part, for him to love me makes him vulnerable and he can't bear that so he has to identify with my 'vulnerability' (read be a normal woman in love) as a weakness that needs to be annihilated, through as you say the depraved methods often resorted to across the spectrum of verbal, emotional and physical abuse, to remove one's dignity. There were lots of 'someone elses' before me and actually I am no longer caring of the someone else that succeeds me. For you are right, it's all bullshit and one can hypothesise and analyse till the end of time, it is what it is and it ain't right. I know for sure that what he is experiencing with me he ain't never done before. That said I am quite au fait with the 'empathy' debate in the world of neuroscience especially and have indeed seen the images of which you mention. Neuroscience also shows images of these brains whose neural pathways are altered by certain therapeutic dynamics, or better to say specific therapeutic relationships that are able to maintain adequate containment following the mirroring of such chaotic and abusive interpersonal relating. Who would want to be their therapist/girlfriend/lover I guess is the question that begs answer. But there's a reason I chose him as much as he chose me and that's what I'm here to find out as much as get out. Your words about self esteem for sure hit home. I have found myself often wondering what woman with abundant self esteem and self-love would stick this shit. There are always two in a relationship and therefore we are both creating this madness, however much it is easy to blame him, as long as I stick in it, I'm as much the creator of the sickness as he is. If only by having healthy reactions, I'm choosing to have them to him! It made me really sad when you asked what my dreams are, really sad, do you know I couldn't find an answer. And then I realised that for the whole time I've been with him, all my dreams have been about a life and future with him. Somewhere and pretty soon, all the dreams I had for myself got discarded. And now I check it I had so many plans, they all seem to get dissolved in my over-focus on him and an 'us'. I was too quick to surrender dreams crafted long before I met him to dreams of a happy married life and kids before checking to see if this dude is up to scracth. WTF was I thinking. And he didn't rob me of my dreams, I willing surrendered them, in fact it has suddenly come to me that on one, which would have meant 3 months away in another country, he actually encouraged me, said he thinks I should do it and wouldn't want me not to just because I met him. I GAVE IT UP. He didn't force me. And that's my shit right there, my issue, not his. Why did I do this, because I was desperate for love ... (ouch that hurts to say out loud) You're right about wearied friends, I am seeing that now and it makes me sad. That 'dreams' question really got me Girlsinger. Well I guess its back to the drawing board, so hard when all my thoughts have been geared towards an us and planning around that in terms of where in the world we'd go live etc etc. Me, I'm a human rights lawyer, Ha, the bloody irony just got me right there...... Oh my God I need to lie down :-) Oh that was good for the first time I felt a smile, thanks Girl Singer. Light blessings to you, Athena
Jun 20 - 1PM (Reply to #10)
spinning
spinning's picture

Athena and girl singer, this is the most

beautiful, enlightening, honest conversation. I thank you Athena for starting this thread and sharing so honestly. Girl singer, I thank you for your insight and knowledge. You both are, like many people here, shining spirits of goodness and truth and compassion and empathy all tossed in with a bit of humor. What a fantastic community this is! I am having a bit of a setback today for reasons I couldn't put my finger on until I spoke with a friend from this board. The friend brought up the self-esteem issues and girl singer, your e-mail interpretation was as if it came out of the disordered one I was involved with's mouth. And Athena, like you, I kept in it. Kept going back. It's remarkable how they truly are all the same. Unfortunately, they knew we were prime targets. Look at the shining qualities on this board. I was involved with a borderline and it was a dance with the devil I could have lived without. When I read this conversation I just want to hunt them all down and expose them for what they really are...ugh. Can't wait til it no longer matters. Peace and strength and love and light to you both and to all who stop here from, (not) spinning. RESISTING THE URGE, REJECTING ALL CHAOS AND CONFUSION.

spinning

Jun 20 - 10AM (Reply to #7)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Athena

I hate u don't leave me us a book , read it! This man is crazy, they all do this! It's a tug of war with your emotions! They have a personality disorder, can they help it? I dont know, the reality is we can live our lives on the rollercoaster they put us on! Look if he means what he says let him come to you! In fact want to play a gameof narc? Dont answer him, in a few days time he will rage, call you every name in the book! They need to control! He is playing you like a puppet! You can't fix this, live him from afar! He is a bad person and not for you! You are living in the now! Do you want to live like this 10 yrs fro Now? Because if it starts this way how do you think its going to get better? Hunter
Jun 20 - 7AM
Athena
Athena's picture

Oh one more thing...

I also wanted to say that I am realising that I don't care if he's a psycho, a narc, a paranoid schizophrenic or emtional retard or all of them and some. What I need to know is enough for me to get out, that he treats me like shit and then says he's sorry, it will never happen again, until the next time, that's abuse and that's all I need to know. Thank God the lights are slowly coming on in my head. Btw - he just put 200 euros into my bank ac. WTF????!!!!!! Thank you everyone, so much. Hugs of gratitude, Athena
Jun 20 - 2PM (Reply to #2)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

If this guy has access to put

If this guy has access to put money in did you give him access to take it out? OMG, Athena, how can we save your soul? Hunter
Jun 20 - 2PM (Reply to #4)
Athena
Athena's picture

No panic about the account

Dear Hunter, sorry for giving undue alarm. It is an account I set up for both of us. He only has ability to deposit.. heh heh got one thing sussed in all of this mess. I don't know why he put it in, no explanation so far and I'm not asking.
Jun 20 - 2PM (Reply to #3)
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

Veyr good point Hunter

Veyr good point Hunter