I had an EPIPHANY!!! (That, or it's bad gas....)

Mine ran yesterday and D&D'd me when I told him how I had proof that his mental tactics hurt everyone that he's trying to "save". From the guy who says no one can prove him wrong, he cut me before I could. To him i'm still an idiot and my life is all wrong. The consequences exist, we're all walking proof of the destruction. I asked for NC. I doubt I'll get that respect. To him I'm not a victim and twisted everything to make him right, as usual. I'm so done. It hurts and I need to learn how to turn off the love.

Hmmm, I think you are onto something. It fits in with my own "pet" philosophy of NPD, that they are essentially four years old in their heads. They cope with life and other people on the emotional level of a four year old. They have no sense of themselves as having any "real" power, unless they aggressively force something to happen. And then the consequences are always about them. Just like a little kid. I think they LITERALLY don't see how their behavior affects others, not the way the normal population sees it. It's because they are emotionally retarded. The only thing a four year old child can do to be "powerful" is to throw a temper tantrum, break something, shout and scream, threaten or act pathetic. Narcs never mature past the point of a very young child. They see "consequences" as always happening to them, rather than as something they are causing to happen. It's normal to be a four year old and think that way. It is horrifying when an adult acts that way. They can cause SO much more damage to themselves and anyone close to them, and then they are oblivious to it!!

Yup, this is the stuff that starts to bring real understanding about what is really going on with the personality and an N, and why this type of thinking in totally ingrained into their personality. In my experience, and from what I have learned, this is the very reason that a person with full blown NPD cannot be cured. They actually believe that the way they think is perfectly normal. In my case, it is interesting in that my N and I had very similar childhoods, yet went in different directions in how to deal with it. As an individual I became highly empathetic, and became kind of a protector to those that were being bullied or in pain, where my N became the "stronger" one (in his eyes) by allowing no one into his heart. Sad really, that they go into lock-down so young, and their self centered personality develops around it. This is where most of their projection comes from I think. They accuse us of things they do because they naturally assume we do think like them, yet we are not quite as clever as manipulating everyone around as. It does not really occur to them that there are people that abhor any type of manipulation. I saw some one recently post that an N can be easy to manipulate. In fact sometimes they are, because they simply cannot comprehend that another person may be able to do it as well as them. For me it was not an option because I hate entering into such games, though it is often interesting to watch how others play this out. So yes, what is normal to the abnormal is the very reason we have no hope in reaching them. A Narc cannot seem to comprehend how an empathetic compassionate person can do something without any personal payoff. An N does everything for that reason only.

From my point of view at this moment...*moment by moment sister...IN THIS MOMENT OF CLARITY *subject to change at anytime...LMAO!!... Some theories suggest that this condition is a result of trauma/abuse and manifests as a way to protect oneself (very loose laymans terms) Another theory is that their brain is fucking wired in some mish mosh that no one will be able to repair this absurdity...although I did read something in some journal, think someone here posted that there was some new finding...shit electric shock treatment should be fine why fix a broken wheel...LMAO! BUT, whatever the cause or reason. It is evident that these freaks of nature or freaks of lack of nuture cannot, do not nor ever will have a conscious or empathy for anyone other than themselves. I think I saw somewhere someone ask: If someone burned down your house and you lost everything would you still sit there trying to understand them? You wrote two things within the same post which I edited and am now trying to understand from say...a philosophical point of view? Truth is at this point, understanding a Narc and dealing with our pain is about as mindfucking as philosophy!!!...LOL You wrote: If they are really that psychologically damaged that they NEVER consider anything they may have done to POSSIBLY have consequences to somone else? OKAY, I THINK I UNDERSTAND THIS PART OF THE THOUGHT...IN OTHER WORDS, FROM TRAUMA, ABUSE... BUT THEN YOU GO ON TO WRITE... They DON'T THINK about consequences EVER because all they ever knew from their childhood was that EVERY word they said, EVERY BREATH they took, every step they walked, EVERYTHING THEY DID brought consequences TO THEM,. So they are used to it. USED TO THE CONSEQUENCES?...AS IN A CONDITIONED RESPONSE OR AS IN A NON REACTION TO CONSEQUENCE BECAUSE IT IS SO NORMAL FOR THEM THAT EVERYTHING RESULTS IN CONSEQUENCE? BUT NOW HERE'S MY QUESTION... ISN'T THERE A CONSEQUENCE FOR ANYTHING US NORMALS DO TOO WHETHER EXTREME OR BENIGN? In my opinion, what we are doing by analyzing this is trying to apply logic or reason to that which has no reason or logic *at least at this time. The fact is, whatever the reason, it is harmful to us and I think that trying to figure out the root cause of such is insanity for us. I would like to hear your thoughts on my questions as I want to make sure I've understood it correctly or shall I say to understand your point better; however, I think the bottom line for us that have been wounded is to try to shy away from focusing on the why's and hows of Narcissism and put the energy more into figuring ourselves out and how we can mend. I'm not preaching, I am still flooded with questions, and nightmares, and you name it - but I think we also need to hold eachother up and try to re-direct eachother when we find ourselves gravitating towards analizing them. We need to put the focus on US. Is it normal to be abnormal...I think the better question would be...how best can I move away from those things in which I cannot change or am powerless over. In this case, more than any other, we were powerless because we had no way of knowing. In 12 step programs like NA and AA they talk about powerlessness. I'm not so sure. Fine we've all had our share of sad stories, some more than others. It was a "choice" to pick up a drug or a drink. We "chose" to pick up these losers or let them into our lives, but they were putting on a charade, we had no way of knowing. If we were given a sketch of what was to come in the future, we would not have gone as far as we had with them. So...I think the best thing to focus on is just...How best can I move away from those things in which I cannot change or am powerless over?...accepting that it is perfectly okay to be a victim at this time and knowing that at some point we can boast of the title "Survivor."