How many times before YOU learned?

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#1 Jun 9 - 8PM
Jodie
Jodie's picture

How many times before YOU learned?

What a fool I am.

I am well versed on Narcissim. I have spent countless hours, mad hours on the internet researching Narcissim, sharing stories on support group boards, therpay, and reading hundreds of very similar stories. Intellectually I know the ONLY way out/to heal is the NO CONTACT rule. Yet my emotions take the best of me...every time...that my OWN sheer misery and torture should be enough to stay away, I'm starting to wonder if I'm a masochist or if he has done irreversible damage to my brain chemistry?

I'm ashamed to say. My husband (we have been separated for 5 months) has come back into my life, but it was only for a short spurt of NS or sex or what have you...the terrible thing is that I allowed this b/c I was missing him, and the destruction he has done this time is even worse. It seems that once you are broken up they really don't care about wearing their mask anymore and go to new levels to humiliate, abuse and exploit you. It's sickening. I have been desperately hanging on to the marriage because I have strong beliefs and feel divorce isn't right...until now.

To say that my head spins worse than the wheels on a bike is an understatement. I am left bewildered EVERY single time I have a conversation with him; it bounces from "love" to abuse, this cyclical pattern, and every time I'm left with my jaw hanging open, in disbelief of the new heights he has gone to utterly confuse me. His logic is so very absurd.

He has told me, "Feelings? They are GONE! They've BEEN gone. You left 5 months ago." Prior to that he was saying he wanted to "date" me and wasn't sure if he wanted our marriage to work 100%. The pendulan swings back and forth. I told him I was going to file for divorce and then he comes back with "Well then you are going to sabotage the marriage yourself because that is NOT what I want!" To..."Don't play the victim again!!!"

Then he says, "I can't help it if you love me more than I love you. That's in EVERY relationship. Don't be mad at me for that!!" To..."You are crazy. You really are. Why are you crying again? My sleeping with you was by no means me committing myself to you again!"

I don't understand WHY I continue to go back...I think it's because I KNOW there is that side to him that is "loving", sweet, caring, my "best friend" yet he only shows it when he wants to; there is no rhyme or reason. I am sick and tired of crying over this. I'm sick and tired of grieving over someone that blatantly told me: "you're the best thing that ever happened to me and I know I will never find better but no I have not grieved over you."

Why do they say such bizarre things??? I'm left crying again. Back at square one. And I had come so far....

Jun 15 - 4PM
Jodie
Jodie's picture

thank you

Thanks to all of you who have responded. I am so grateful for you ladies. You have such wisdom and have really helped me through this more than you'll ever know. Just reading stories of what you have endured lets me know that I am so not alone. We will all get through this. Love you girls!!!

"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."

Jun 14 - 9PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Jodie & Carolyn

via their seduction, control, gaslighting and brainwashing - yes they DO affect our brain chemistry. Profoundly. More: http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/06/reality-and-suffering.html http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/04/gift-of-fear-curse-of-anxiety.html http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2007/08/intense-attachments.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 15 - 5PM (Reply to #40)
Jodie
Jodie's picture

Thanks Barbara...

"Oh boy, have I learned a lot lately. What is becoming evident is that much of your intrusive thoughts, your obsession with him/relationship, your cognitive conflict known as dissonance, and many other symptoms as well are stemming from one major issue: The inability to accept what he is, how he is, and what this means. This level of resistance isn't always conscious. Some of it may seep out and drift up into your awareness where you notice yourself fluctuating between "He is pathological; I don't want him to be pathological; He isn't pathological." So profound! SOOOOOOOOOOOO true. Thanks for posting Barbara "Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."

"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."

Jun 14 - 7PM
Carolyn
Carolyn's picture

Jodie You mentioned your

Jodie You mentioned your 'brain chemistry'being affected by this man. I think there is something that happens. think about going to a scary movie and really being scared, so scared you can't look, and you hide your eyes. What kind of chemistry is taking place-and do you go to another scary movie? I don't think there is anything wrong with you and I think you are really on to something. Have you ever talked to a doctor or to an advice nurse about this reaction you have to this man? When you are at the scary movie you know nothing is going to happen to you but somehow your brain chemistry puts you into the movie. The ones that I don't go to anymore are the ones where the woman is being hunted and the scary guy is chasing her in an empty building. I think the Scream movies had a lot of that. I watched one on TV and I was too afraid to watch and I was in my own house! The fear reaction was real whether the incident was real. I wonder if women who are in abusive relationships don't have some kind of chemical re-action that sets inappropriate emotions into action. Love, hate, anger, jealousy-all of the negative emotions mixed with this inappropriate love response. You mentioned he gets you 'confused' then he makes you frantic, then you feel attached to him and he is your best friend. I think it sounds like it is all connected-like some kind of adrenal gland reaction: thats why Lisa's No Contact rule has to be in place. I knew a woman in Calfornia who told me she had a strong reaction to coke. If she drank a coke she got a reaction like she was drunk. None of us beleived her but she gave us a demonstration and she did get drunk from 2 cokes. She doesn't drink coke because of the crazy affect but she does not have that reaction from coffee so it can't be the caffeine it is something in the coke that sets off a brain chemistry reaction. I think there is something similar here with these relationship problems. Some reaction happens that spins you into a brain chemistry state that is very bad for you.
Jun 14 - 1AM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Leah

Leah you are still trauma bonding, dealing with the upheavel and trying to deprogram from him is going to take a long time. Are you in counseling? If not, find out if your local DV Center has a group you can sit in on for free. Your mother is toxic at the least. She can get phone counseling and probably it would be free to her as a former victim or even if she is over 50. She wants to be free to complain and then do NOTHING about it. You know, if she is going to use you as her "wailing wall" then she really is out of bounds being abusive to you - whether or not you are in her house or not. Have you dealt with where to go after this? Have you hired a lawyer? The latter needs to be dealt with ASAP. Frankly, most abusers who throw the wife & kids out are NOT looked on kindly by the court. The court will usually tell the abuser to move out and let the wife & kids have the home. But your lawyer will explain all this to you. This is very hard, I know - my family gave me ZERO support when I left exNH. Thank goodness I had friends. And I knew how to work the situation to my advantage once I got past being scared of him. Whine all you want - you're in a tough spot but you're doing great. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 12 - 9PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Covert Incest & Narc Parents

I think I am going to start a thread on N-Parents since there is so much talk about it. Classically - the N parent family has one GOLDEN CHILD and one BLACK SHEEP. In my family I was the BLACK SHEEP - the hateful horrible awful child who, according to NarcMom "lived [her] whole life to hurt [my mom]" (talk about Narcissistic)! Usually, like me, BLACK SHEEP's feel THEY somehow MADE their NParent treat them badly and they are usually N & P Magnets. BLACK SHEEPs grow up with no clue as to boundaries, have low to no self-esteem, are pushed to 'be in a relationship', have problems with Narc friends & bosses and chronically blame themselves for everything that goes wrong around them. Once the BLACK SHEEP figures it all out; classically in their 30s or 40s - it's a raging inferno of disappointment, anger, feeling cheated and ticked off. My NarcMom passed away 10 years ago. I cried at her funeral because of the relationship we'd never have. She would often be very nice, tricking me into thinking she'd finally accepted me and then when I opened up to her - use that information against me. So I shut down around her. She lied. Played my sibling against me. Was histrionic (a drama addict) and stalked and physically harmed me. She was much nicer to others than she ever was to me. She had a Covert Incest relationship with my sibling. Recently, my sibling's spouse asked me a few things about their behavior and I told them about C.I. Turns out their own mother was CI'ing them and that my mother tried to suck them into the CI-vortex too. My mother only tried ONCE to CI me and I told her I thought that was very inappropriate. She raged so I packed my bags, called a cab and got out of her home ASAP. I didn't go back for 7 years. I didn't speak to her for 4. In fact, she blamed me so much for my PCOs (which I was diagnosed with when I was 9) and that I was getting sick "on purpose" (this was re-echoed by exNH when I got Atypical M.S. in 1995) that I went through 12 years of infertility treatment and NEVER EVER TOLD HER. My NarcMother, as well as our Disney-fueled culture, felt that NOT being married or having a man meant there was something seriously WRONG with you. It wasn't until I was much older I began to enjoy being alone and did not feel the pressure to date. Since leaving exNH my NarcMom (while she was alive) and SilentPartner Dad (who did her 'bidding') pushed me to get back with exNH, preached to me about how wrong it was and how bad it was for the children. I told them both to F-off finally. Unless I was married, in her eyes I was nothing. And that's B.S. The final straw was when NarcMom said to me "Barbara, you have to PUSH your children the way you want them to go." My response, "Oh? Well, I can see how well that worked out for YOU Mom!" She was furious. Believe me this took YEARS & YEARS of counseling, reading psych books, fearless self-inventory, crying, Zoloft and periods of No Contact to "get." ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 14 - 9AM (Reply to #36)
grossot
grossot's picture

Barbara

I'm guessing your mother had a strange and difficult upbringing. Not that that's any excuse for the way she treated you. I looked up covert incest. I think I understand the concept but I was unable to find what age this can begin with a child. And also in what forms the abuse can take place. How can one determine if its just poor judgement or covert incest? My STBXNH was caught twice by me in the bathtub with our four year old daughter. I never felt that he would be physically involved with her (one specialist says she has a scar on her hymen and another specialist says its just a prominence that is common). It disgusts me to write this but I think you knew a little of my story anyway. So do you think in the eyes of the court this can be consisdered emotional abuse given the definition of covert incest? Both bathtub incidences happened within a week of each other and at the height of our marrital problems. But he had a mistress to offer him supply so why would he reach out to his daughter like that? Remember he's also a sex addict. He says he's been in the tub with her many times before and I knew about. I'm just saying this now b/c I'm bitter. I never knew him to bathe with her before other than when she was a baby. I know that its rare for the biological father to sexually abuse his own child. Daughter says no one ever touched her private places. N is accusing me of taking her to every dr in town to get someone to say he's abusing her because I'm bitter about the affair. I just really trust you insight. Be kinder than necessary to everyone you meet; for everyone is fighting some kind of battle - anonymous- :o) nolongercontrolled
Jun 14 - 8AM (Reply to #34)
grossot
grossot's picture

Barbara

I'm guessing your mother had a strange and difficult upbringing. Not that that's any excuse for the way she treated you. I looked up covert incest. I think I understand the concept but I was unable to find what age this can begin with a child. And also in what forms the abuse can take place. How can one determine if its just poor judgement or covert incest? My STBXNH was caught twice by me in the bathtub with our four year old daughter. I never felt that he would be physically involved with her (one specialist says she has a scar on her hymen and another specialist says its just a prominence that is common). It disgusts me to write this but I think you knew a little of my story anyway. So do you think in the eyes of the court this can be consisdered emotional abuse given the definition of covert incest? I know that its rare for the biological father to sexually abuse his own child. Daughter says no one ever touched her private places. N is accusing me of taking her to every dr in town to get someone to say he's abusing her because I'm bitter about the affair. I just really trust you insight. Be kinder than necessary to everyone you meet; for everyone is fighting some kind of battle - anonymous- :o) nolongercontrolled
Jun 14 - 6PM (Reply to #35)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

grossot

my mother was repeatedly brutually beaten by her misogynist Eastern European father - for being female and for getting better grades than her brother. Caution - because the word 'incest' is in covert incest - does NOT mean it has anything to do with sexual inappropriateness - it is EMOTIONAL. There can be sexual inappropriateness mixed in but it is basically EMOTIONAL/ VERBAL. When a parent turns a child into a "partner" by discussing or telling them things that are not age or relationship appropriate (such as problems with the spouse/ other parent) It is impossible for the child to meet the emotional needs of the parent; but the parent expects them to do so. What you are describing with your ex is a lack of appropriate boundaries and sexual inappropriateness. It is borderline abusive. It is not emotional abuse or covert incest but it is INAPPROPRIATE and should be brought out in court. Whether or not your DD was touched - there's no way she should have been in a bath with her dad. No way. Covert incest IS poor judgment. Here's some links: http://www.covertincest.org/articles/birthday.pdf (must read) http://www.covertincest.org/why.html http://www.covertincest.org/symptoms.html http://www.covertincest.org/whattodo.html http://www.covertincest.org/books.html I am glad you trust my insight; because I sure don't. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 12 - 2PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Leah

Leah - you know Ns don't usually marry other Ns. I may be wrong - your mom may just have taken on some of your NDad's traits in 'self-defense.' She may be what's called the "silent partner' like my dad was. There's a very twisted pathological relationship when an N marries and the other partner doesn't leave - like many of our parents. It's very hard to fathom or figure out. Not great role models either. My Narc mother was VEHEMENTLY against me divorcing exNH while at the same time telling HIM to "leave me." In their day, no one ever divorced. Your mom's lack of support for you may actually come from some buried jealousy that you are 'getting out' and some wrongly interpreted Xtian idea that divorce is bad. Once you get some distance - you may be able to figure it all out. Right now what's important is YOU and the kids and getting your own situation straight. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 10 - 11AM
whatever2009
whatever2009's picture

Jodie....

I can really relate to this.... I feel as though he turned me just like him. I now have this "fuck it" attitude, I emotionally hurt all the time, but I try to get rid of it, or not acknowledge it and move on. I let him do whatever, and say whatever, because I just dont care as much anymore. I trust no one, and just figure I should start thinking like "a guy", and just try to ignore my feelings. I let him ignore me, and then come back and be nice to me, because I miss him terribly when hes not around, and crave "the good things"......I have somehow allowed myself to be programmed into thinking that using him for what I want is ok. But it really cant be, because I actually hurt (most times) and he doesnt. His ego can be damaged, but emotionally he feels nothing. So im the one ultimataley losing here.... Im not sure when you learn, or when it stops or when you become strong enough/fed up enough to walk away....but I do sympathize with you. This is what they do to us, and unfortunatley being alone terrifies us.
Jun 12 - 2PM (Reply to #29)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

whatever

when you start acting like them towards others that is "reactive abuse" it's a psychological way to try to regain emotional equilibrim. Once you leave it passes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 15 - 11AM (Reply to #30)
whatever2009
whatever2009's picture

question for u,

would you happen to know if reactive abuse is a step towards leaving? or does it happen as more of a "defense"
Jun 15 - 3PM (Reply to #31)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Reactive Abuse

Is almost ALWAYS a defense. It is NOT a step towards leaving at all. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 11 - 9AM (Reply to #27)
kayleigh (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

jodie

I have spent 8 long years in a relationship that has truely hurt and disgusted me, if a relationship is good you DONT have to work at it that hard do you? walk away dont look back, ive just this last month started my "walking away" and yes its hard cause you think of the good times, but theres been more bad!! I never fully understood the "mind games" the jealousythe lies, he says but ive never cheated on you have i ?? hmmmmmm he is jealous of my children and friends its been a NIGHTMARE and i need to talk to someone to help my head so to speak.....i have gone from crying and asking him never to leave me to now saying "theres the door" so i have changed......big time
Jun 11 - 9AM (Reply to #28)
finallydone
finallydone's picture

This sounds exactly like

This sounds exactly like what I am going through word for word!!! - 8 years in the relationship exactly - Just finally really walked away this month - Mind games, jeolousy, lying, didn't cheat on me - JEOLOUS OF MY SON and friends I'd love to compare notes with you. This is difficult and horrible even though I know it's the only answer.
Jun 10 - 8AM
Suzie (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Jodie

Mine says the same kind of bizzare extremly hurtful things to me. He once told me that he knows it isn't fair that I love him more than he loves me. But neither one of us want to go through a divorce and maybe he could work on loving me more if I could work on doing what I'm supposed to do.(cleaning, cooking,respecting him more, making the kids show more respect, not losing or forgetting things, keeping my mouth shut,ect...) Now why is it that we love them again????? Leah
Jun 10 - 2PM (Reply to #25)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

jodie

Puke, puke, puke to his comments about maybe he "could work on loving me" if.... That is so typical and so abusive. Yeah, reminds me of my N. Yeah, why IS it we love them again? Stay strong. Stay determined. Keep your own mind. I am trying to do the same. Just wanted to offer some support. CM
Jun 10 - 8AM
Suzie (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Jodie

Mine says the same kind of bizzare extremly hurtful things to me. He once told me that he knows it isn't fair that I love him more than he loves me. But neither one of us want to go through a divorce and maybe he could work on loving me more if I could work on doing what I'm supposed to do.(cleaning, cooking,respecting him more, making the kids show more respect, not losing or forgetting things, keeping my mouth shut,ect...) Now why is it that we love them again????? Leah
Jun 10 - 6AM
grossot
grossot's picture

Jodie. You can do this. Yo

Jodie. You can do this. Yo are not at square one again. You have a lot of knowlege now that's not going to go away 2 things you say here are very helpful to me: 1) It seems once you break up they no longer care about wearing their mask anymore Jodie he knows you figured him out. Lisa says,"they know there's something wrong with them. They just don't care to figure it out." 2)His logic is so very absurd. Thank you for saying that. Let's all just keep helping each other remember that. We are not dealing with rational people here. Stay focused on taking care of you. You can do this. nolongercontrolled
Jun 10 - 10AM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

thanks

Children of Narcissistic Parents draw Narcs and Ps to them like flies to garbage. I don't know how I did it, either. You don't even recognize the pathological behavior for a long long long time because to you it seems normal. Even the little red flags? I knew I was powerless to do anything about them. Spending time in a clinic for PTSD was the last straw. I swore it would be the last time someone would make me feel like nothing & no one and drive me to the brink of suicide. It's not a list I am proud of - but I can certainly share what I learned from the inside. Why do they say such bizarre things??? It's their PATHOLOGY. The trick is to learn not to listen, not to try to figure it all out, not to give them any weight, not to believe them and NOT to let them take up free rent in your head. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 9 - 11PM
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

jodie

Aw, I'm so sorry Jodie, poor thing.... what a jerk he is. It took me 3 times before I learned. The first month I had to sit on my hands to keep from answering him - I did the first few times 'cuz I was a living zombie, not really thinking. But I stopped after that. I saw him become impatient. I knew soon there would be a point of no return, not because he'd give up, but his despise for me would permanently damage our relationship if there ever would be a future (for the first time really, I wasn't 'complying' with him). I let him suffer by No Contact, I let him stew, be miserable, wonder why THIS time I wasn't responsive. That was the hardest point for me, I had to get over that hump - plus I never ignored or was unfeeling to him like this, ever. Once I got past the pain of doing that, I was kind of proud of myself. I knew if I took him back, he'd make me pay for what I put HIM through. Just as you say, he wouldn't have cared and acted any old way he wanted because I took him back, right? For me, I couldn't handle that again. They ARE bizarre. After all that, mine still tries to contact me from time to time. I just ignore it, I have to. You can't beat yourself up for going back, that desire is incredibly strong. You just have to get absolutely sick and tired of being treated like crap, and know that life's better without them. The deprogramming is intense, and he means so little to me now. You just have to keep reading and recognizing their behavior, and relate it to specific things they do to us. I've had so many AHA! moments (for lack of a better term), that I just don't even get surprised anymore. What I miss is a partner, not really him...it's weird. I don't feel like you're back at square one, you've learned a lot. You've got more ammo now to move forward. Take care of yourself.
Jun 9 - 9PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

It does take a while

myself: 1 Narc Mother (normal children of Narcs do NOT usually 'wake up' until their late 30s or 40s! and sometimes even then...) 4 Narc Boyfriends 2 Sociopath Boyfriends 6 Narc friends 1 Narc Husband 1 Sociopath Boss 4 Narc Bosses Until I started putting 2+ 2 together, learned about Narcissism - I didn't make the connections. I blamed myself. No more. Please stay AWAY from Vaknin. FAR AWAY! http://www.enpsychopedia.org/index.php/Sam_Vaknin Some good books for you: WHY IS IT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU - Dr. Sandy Hotchkiss WHY DOES HE DO THAT - Lundy Bancroft WITHOUT CONSCIENCE - Dr. Robert Hare and the number one read I tell everyone: WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS by Sandra Brown, MA (Brown lumps Narcs with Psychopaths for this book) ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 10 - 10AM (Reply to #16)
GhostBuster
GhostBuster's picture

So true...

Barbara, I'm just waking up (in my mid 40s) and understanding how being raised by a narcissist (my dad) and my mom (likely a victim of N abuse herself) has profoundly affected my choices and makes Ns drawn to me. A whole new enlightened world is opening up to me. I see so many people in my life who have been Ns...lovers, friends, relatives. One week after I kicked N fiance to the curb, my "friend" at the time called and was verbally abusing me for something really unimportant (that my cell phone was turned off and she had to take an extra step to reach me on my land line). I actually said to her "I can't believe you're jumping on me for this when I'm recovering from abuse and suffering from major anxiety." She got so angry at me for suggesting she was being callous, selfish and destructive she hung up on me. She called back and left me an even more obnoxious message and I never returned her call. She's gone from my life and she's SUCH an N. I see how I never set any boundaries with her (just like every other N in my life) and it's actually made me realize just how important boundaries are. I say "no" now when people make unreasonable demands. I let people know what I will and won't put up with. It's about time...
Jun 10 - 10AM (Reply to #17)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

GhostBuster

A great book for you is: CHILDREN OF THE SELF ABSORBED by Nina Brown ACONS (Adult Children of Narcissists) have a struggle with boundaries because they learn very late they even exist. The litany of things my Narc mother did to me is endless. I can't think about it for too long because I know between her and a genetic hormone disorder - a lot of my life was STOLEN from me and I get enraged. ...but used correctly, rage can be very motivating. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 10 - 11AM (Reply to #18)
GhostBuster
GhostBuster's picture

Thanks Barbara

I will pick up those two books. I'm also reading the Narcissistic Family (I think it's called...God, it's my family in there throughout). With the help of my therapist, I'm working through the boundary setting issues. Here's one example that happened recently. I joined a golf league because I love to golf but no one I know plays. So, in my effort to get back into life post N, I went out of my comfort zone and joined a group populated by people I don't know (remember I'm an introvert!). I was really excited for the first time in six months to do something I like. My first round was Memorial Day. I get put into a four-some with three men (didn't really care if I golfed with men or women...just wanted to golf) and two of the guys were just great. Just there to golf. 3rd guy was an obnoxious 60-ish blow hard who cornered me for my phone number under the guise of wanting someone to golf with. (I told him I wasn't interested in dating and had ended an engagement earlier this year). I didn't want to give him my number but didn't want to hurt his feelings either. He wouldn't take no for an answer and so, I buckled and gave it to him....my land line. He phoned me while I was still en route back to my house after golf and said we should golf again that week and demanded to hear back from me in the next day or two. I was so irritated with myself for giving him my number, bummed that my first attempt at socializing and doing something for leisure was marred, and also irritated that this guy was going to likely continue bugging me. Well, I didn't call him back and told therapist next day what had happened. She was a little annoyed with me for giving him my number when I didn't want to and we hatched a plan for me to be very direct with him if he called again. And call again he did. Three more times. Finally, I called him back and reiterated that I didn't want to see him outside the league and he apologized. Then...offered up that he's in a "dead marraige" and just trying to figure out what he's going to do. I couldn't believe it...beyond being a big blow hard...HE'S MARRIED! What a pig. Anyway, so I get off the phone and felt better for having asserted my boundaries. But the idiot hasn't given up. He called again to have coffee last weekend and I didn't answer. I'm not going to explain my position to him again. I golf again this Friday and I am now feeling strong enough to literally tell the guy to F off if starts bugging me. He's not going to ruin the golf league for me.
Jun 10 - 2PM (Reply to #19)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

GhostBuster

good for you for getting out and doing things. Dead Marriage - that's the same line PSYCHO-BOY used on me (of course I'd known him 27 years so had no reason to doubt him at the time) Tell the dude he calls you again you will be speaking to the police and possibly his wife so to lay off. If he continues DO make notes of dates/ times calling and tell the police he's harassing you. And consider telling the wife anonymously he's on the prowl. I can guarantee you - you aren't the only woman he's hounding. Another great book is CHILDREN OF THE SELF-ABSORBED by Nina Brown There's a good Yahoo group for ACONS too: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adult-ChildrenOFNarcissits/summary (misspelling intentional) ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 10 - 9AM (Reply to #3)
Suzie (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Barbra

What do you mean "wake up"?? (adult children of N's)
Jun 10 - 10AM (Reply to #4)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Leah

Realizing your parent is an N. (wake up) N parents BRAINWASH their kids pretty thoroughly. They also use isolation, guilt tripping, blame shifting - the whole bag of Nisms ON THEIR KIDS. It's extremely hard to 'wake up' from that and see what's really going on. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 12 - 1PM (Reply to #5)
Suzie (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Barbara

This is a lot to take in. I have known my dad is a N for years. I have just learned that my husband is a N about a month and a half ago. I have learned so much from you and the message board and of course Lisa. But I just don't know if I am ready to except the reality that my mom might be a N too. That would mean that I have no one. I need some time before I deal with that. This feels like the matrix.