those who kept strict NC, that means not reading anything, blocking them, changing number, deleting emails, never looking into trash....these are the ones who are getting better, and who are going on with their lives and who are not here on this board anymore.
I know some other women as well, beside the board here, and it is the same with them too.
I am still here, cause I never kept strict NC more than 3 months. And here I am, still struggling, with something that never really existed.
So yes, NC is forever, no way around, listen to those here on the board, where the narc came back 15 to 20 years later, and they are hurt again.
Like someone wrote below, we are humans, they somehow are not. They move on, date, fall in love, screw around, unaffected, we dont, we hurt for years, and it will take long time to recover from that.
Respect this very nature of you here. It is the dark side of being an loving and caring being with a heart. And no matter what you do, it will not go away anyway. So protect it.
jen, i do need to protect myself more. somebody once said in a response that continuously running back to him or breaking NC is masochistic. and i don't know what part of me enjoys prolonging this pain. since when did i become a masochist?
NC forever sounds so permanent and so final. it's just odd to think of a man whom i really fell in love with and who became my world for three years of my life has to be cut out of my life. just like that. no ands ifs or buts about it. i feel like i am closing the door as he begs for me to come back. it's heart-wrenching.
I understand that "cognitively" you understand "forever" but on day five...I don't expect you to "own" it yet.
The reason why it is forever is because these individuals are Personality Disordered and at this juncture until science/medicine catch up, there will be no remedy to what affects them.
This means they will ALWAYS operate with an MO will always be selfish will always seek to exploit.
Twenty years can go by...they won't grow, and they won't change.
I hold little hope that science and medicine will work diligently to solve this dilemma.
That means, that in order to protect yourself - it has to be forever.
If he comes back 20 years from now, it won't be with your best intersts, it won't be because he's learned a lesson, it won't be because he's sorry even if he shows up at your doorstep professing you've been the only one true love of his life.
It will be because he's out of supply.
My mother recently was a victim of hoovering - she's been traumatized by this for twenty years - it was only my "victimization" that led me to learn and I was able to school her. She almost feel right into the trap...as a result of my schooling her, she learned how to listen and this guy - although at the time, did treat me well...went through the "script" word for word...my mother was in shock and perhaps ashamed that she did not know any better and hence could never teach me...
Dazed...it is forever...but on day five, no, I don't expect you to be a master...but I do expect your best efforts at trying to dicipline yourself and putting yourself first.
Hugs
Michele, Thanks for sharing your mother's experience. And for being understanding - I don't know what it means to own it yet in my heart. I don't know what that feels like. But I want to know and to feel it. I still ache in pain because throughout all of this, I have the N on the side begging for me to come back. I've held off bc the pain that I know will come from talking to him is greater than the pain of NC. It still doesn't make it easier. It makes it hard for me to "own" and accept the fact that this person cannot and will not change. It's such a weird way to think of a person - and not how I was conditioned to think of people.
And I definitely am no master at NC. I'm probably the poster child for what NOT to do. Next time you need an example of what not to do during NC, point to me. Haha.
Thanks for the kick in the butt and saying it like it is.
seriously, if you don't have children then stop all contact! i have two lovely children with my exnh and a business. thank god the business isn't one where we work together but do have to communicate about it.
i feel clear and confident enough to have those basic conversations with him even face to face. in my mind i am grossed out by his swagger and "i have a new gf" vibe but my head now has taken over and i mostly feel sorry for him. he is a funny, charming guy but i feel like i can have those exchanges and not get sucked in to his drama. believe me, he love the drama! ( but would tell me i was the one with the drama)
maybe it is because i have matured enough and know i deserve so much more that i stay strong. you know how i know all this??? that icky feeling in my stomach is not there for the most part, maybe just a tinge now and then but i think that is normal. so that is how i know i am done done done!!!
i just stay on a level plane of emotion when talking. he is good though, this i know and i am certain he will try and "win me back" at some point. eewwwwwww! the thought makes me wanna puke.
kerellen, how long did it take you to reach this point where you don't feel that anxiety in your stomach when you see/communicate with him? did you go through NC to reach this point? I assume the answer is no since you have children and a job.
my N is really funny and charming. to the point where i don't know if i could ever reach the same place as you. i feel like as soon as i crack open my heart to him, i will be swept away again. it's like i no longer trust myself to be strong around him. i would love to reach a point where, like you, i can deal with it and feel sorry for him, but not have it affect me. even if he had another gf. (who knows maybe he does right now while he is hoovering)
i am really happy that you have been successful at reaching this point and are so strong. thank you.
listen, i spent 30 years off and on with this guy. i wish i could have woken up years ago and i did at times but i was always swept up by the "apologies", charm, attention, all of it. it will be good to get our family back together, etc. i fell for it all, too many times. ughh
FINALLY, this last time, he said he needed a break, so i asked well, what does that mean? and this was his reply "it could be 2 months, it could be 2 years, it could be 10 years" wtf? who says sh*t like that?? well....a narc does! i really wish i could record some of the things he says, they are truly quotable. the pink and red flags are always waving and i so wanted to leave him but my ego got in the way of that.( thank god we had not remarried or were living together) that little voice that shouts at me "you can make this work, don't go, what will people think?
now i know it doesn't matter what people think of me anymore. i just truly want to heal and maintain a distant yet cordial relationship with my ex.
so, i guess what i am trying to tell you is that you should walk away, get away. he will cause nothing but heartache and misery to you.
of course i still get anxious but i process it much more quickly than i used to. it just takes time.
what i really want to say to you is, learn from this and keep moving forward.
i moved sideways. not good
NC is not easy at all, but it's for "us" not "them"!! That's what you have to remember. It hurts to have contact with the Narc because he will never be who we want or thought that they were.
You have to make the choice to stay out to feel better and live the life you want to live. It's a choice! It's your choice to make! But it takes work on our part to live our lives each day and try to heal from the pain.
Getting an N out of your system takes a long time. I tried NC a couple of times; the last one lasted several months. I did a lot of reading on this site, learned about them.
Then, when something bad happened in my life, I reached out to none other. Don't know why because he is not capable of being there for me. I broke NC but I didn't care at that point.
I continued to break NC and started seeing him in a benefits kind of way, which I never wanted with him but otherwise he didn't want to hang out with me and I was desperate for his companionship.
I kept telling myself that I knew how he was so he couldn't hurt me anymore.
Not true.
I'm hurt - again. Now I'm starting NC again (day 1).
They will ALWAYS hurt you and get to you no matter how strong you've become. Why? Because you're human and have emotions and feelings...they, on the other hand, do not.
NC is meant to be forever for this reason, I think. It's for your own self-preservation and protection.
Keep at it.
If you dont have children together then yes! He has to go away forever! Perhaps maybe you are looking for a different answer for away to relieve some of the excruiating pain. I hate to say it but there is no way around the pain. You have to feel the full brunt of it. You have to feel to heal. If you do not, you will end up right back in more pain than before wehther its 5 weeks, 5 months or 5 years from now. In my case it was 15 years and I am here to promise you if you leave your pain undealt with, he'll be back eventually and he'll leave you in pain that you didnt even think was possible.
sickofit - this is always where I get myself into trouble and become stuck, "if you leave your pain undealt with..."
This is where I get into trouble, throw in the towel, and contact him again.
I had gotten him out of my system (took nearly 1/2 a year), was grossed out by the thought of ever being with him again, and actually was content at just being by myself (not totally content though).
But I hadn't dealt with my pain which goes all the way to my family of origin.
You're so right: the pain must be dealt with in order to be able to forever let go of the abusers.
Well then you are almost there then. You see for myself and many others it is difficult to even get to a point where we can see that this our pain and its been there for a long long time. We avoid it like the plague. Its easier just to stuff it rather than feel it problem is it starts manifesting in ways that are not healthy for our mind and body. Just buckle down get to the root of it and feel it. The truth will set you free!
You see there are lots of us who sit around in victim mode and unhealthy amount of time. I know I did. We simply say nope not me I don't have any issues. I was just attacked by a brutal predator and that's true but when you examine further. Did he make me stay nope. Did I know something wasn't quite right w him yep. Did I continue to engage though I knew I was having negative effects yep. Did I let him determine whether I was happy or sad yep. Are those things healthy nope. Does the origin of those things need examining yep
I applaud you as you recognize that staying in victim mode is not at all healthy. You just need a little shove.
i am starting to "deal" with the origins of my pain. i have a therapist who is helping me - i know i am being impatient, but i want to deal with this and get through this pain as fast possible. it's almost unbearable. the pain makes me want to go back to the crazy relationship.
but i always remember my therapist's stern/concerned/almost-frightened look when i said that to her. she said firmly "this is about you. you need to regain your self. you are looking to reclaim that self and to grow from this experience. running back to him will only make you lose yourself further."
for me i've only started reading up on codependency. i see a lot of that in me. i asked my therapist if she thought i had BPD and she said no. i asked if she thought i was an N. she said no. (she hates those types of questions though bc she is really trying to avoid labeling everything.) for me, i still don't see how looking to my past will help me get through this. but i am willing to do it (and anything and everything) if it will help me get back to who i use to be before him and even better.
have you all felt that digging in deeper to your past actually did release the pain of the present in a real and meaningful way? meaning, you weren't just running away from the present pain. how does looking at the past get you to look at the present?
i'm only beginning to talk to my dr about my childhood. i was raped when i was 6. molested several times. all by different people. so i grew up really wondering why this always happened to me. i was really self-protective. i don't understand how such an abusive man undid that defenses. i let all of my guard down and trusted him with everything, including my body, which is not easy for me.
i have a great family. so i think that the experiences above probably contributed to my codependent behavior. i just don't understand why now? why with a narc? why not with a healthy person? i was in a perfectly healthy relationship for 7 years before the narc. how did this happen?
i am NC still...but it's still hard. he wrote me AGAIN. i finally deleted him from my sister's contacts so now i have no way of knowing whether he is online or not. the only crack left is his emails in my trash. i can still check. i've already changed my phone number. i don't have access to facebook bc i made my friends take it away from me and deactivate it until i got better. i still manage to find other ways to check on things, but i try not to...
i just want to know what can i proactively do in this hard NC time to make it go faster and to make sure i heal properly? instead of sitting around feeling all of this pain and sleeping through nightmares, what can i proactively and positively do to make this process go by easier? i don't mean pamper myself or shop. i actually should be studying and focusing on school. and getting a job for the summer. but how do i analyze my past to understand this in a way that will ease my pain?
sorry for all of the questions...i have felt nothing but frustration with myself in the past several days.
Well Im not an authority but being raped at 6 is some pretty hard core stuff. I think that would leave anyone with some "issues"
From everything I have read these relationships are about core woundedness and toxic shame whether you are consciously aware of it or not. I too have a great family though I have come to realize though that some of my upbringing may have caused some of my codependency issues. My parents were "model parents" but what I have come to realize that alot of what our society deemed as good parenting was shame based. It had a tone of do the right thing or your bad. A child has no ability to separate "the state of being" with behavior. When you tell a child they should be ashamed when they have done something terribly wrong (and whose parents havent done that) they interpret as such though it wasnt meant literally.
When you continue a relationship with a PDI they ignite all of that shame in you because they too suffer with core woundedness they are able to experience their shame by igniting yours. The pain has been there all along and it wants out. You will subconsciously keep engaging with people like this or with him until you deal with it
I have said this many times over and over but go to gettinbetter.com read everything on there about personality disorders. She explains it in her articles far better than I.
SOI,
we don't have children. thank goodness. and the years you throw out, really frighten me. i cannot lose another year of my life like this.
why do they keep coming back? with NC do they eventually give up? there's so much supply to be had. we aren't even in the same country!
yes he will eventually give up that is if you dont feed him supply. He then may wait awhile and try again maybe even use a different tactic.
There is no easy way out of this. You have to feel that pain, then you have to process it, then you have to find the root of it. I am true believer that he is not the root of it. It was pain that was already there he has simply reignited it. Here are some suggested subjects to educate yourself on
of course narcissism but also Borderline Personality Disorder
repetition compulsion (addiction to the narc)
codependency
trauma bonding
Core woundedness
Shari Schreibers site gettinbetter.com Read Everything she writes!
toxic shame
Read Read Read the process
Well, winding the clock back about 8 years, I met a guy who I thought was rather nice, and I started falling for him. It didn't take me long to realise that all he was really after was sex, and he was a little (not a lot, but a little) bit manipulative. It wasn't like he was a narc or anything, but he was a touch toxic, and I realise years on that he was quite damaged after a previous relationship had gone bad on him, and wasn't really able to trust anyone.
The point is that in the end I cut contact with him on the basis that he was only ever bothering with me when he wanted sex. Initially it hurt because of my feelings for him, but it was the old "time is a healer" situation. No Contact with him meant that I got over it and moved on.
And I've stayed No Contact. In all fairness he wasn't a narc, so he stayed out of my life, but the point I'm making is that sat here as I am, years later, I find that he only very rarely crosses my mind, and when he does there's no pain associated with it.
And that's how it should be. Narcs make it hard because they won't leave you alone, but over time it gets easier.
You just have to stick with it.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't different for everyone though. There's no magic formula along the lines of "after 1 year, 2 months, and 15 days you suddenly won't think about him ever again."
PP, i feel like the less disordered types (or more normal types) will leave us alone if the relationship is not working and we want to be left alone. but the N doesn't respect any boundaries! and he hoovers. but then there's the whole D&D thing. i don't get it! why are they spending all of this energy to hoover, only to dump it all later?? what is that all about??
i don't understand, because i honestly feel like my N could get supply anywhere else. so why me?! i am done. i have stated it very clearly. i have not responded in days. he's making NC really difficult for me. but I guess i am making it difficult on myself bc i keep checking his emails...
i hate this feeling. i know i am ranting. but i hate feeling like "i just wish he wasn't an N so that we could work this out like any other normal relationship"
we both want this. as least by the words he's telling me he seems to want this and to want to work on things.
but i can't give it to him. his past actions show that he is a N. so i feel like it is inevitable that the D&D day is going to come. and i can't even trust that he wants this like he says. it feels like such a double-edged sword. no matter what, i am screwed bc he is an N. if i give in and try i am screwed. if i go through NC, i remain in pain and still feel screwed by lingering questions unanswered.
WHY CAN'T THE PAIN JUST END ALREADY?!
i really hate this NC process.
This is a link that was very useful to me recently that been doing the rounds on here courtesy of Sick Of It, although it's a looooong read. It may help you to understand more the strange behaviour:
link
prettypeeved, thanks for this link. i didn't think my N had BPD, but now i'm not so sure...
i feel like i spent so much time researching and obsessing over narcs, i am groaning at the thought that i will now have to understand BPD on top of that. lol.
Thank you prettypeeved for the link. It's a great article! I've been feeling pretty down today and missing my exN so it really helped to read the article and remind myself again why I'm so much better off without him and that I deserve better and that I need to continue NC (it's been 4 months) and not give in to the feelings I have of wanting to call him. Thank you!!
Hugs
it must be forever, b/c they dont ever change, they will do to you again what they did to you in the first place, that made you go nc, funny enough, today i saw one of my kids[ive been 19mnths nc withexnh and exn], anyway my exh had commented on something at our kids home, and i then said word for word what he probley said next, my family said how could you know thats what he said?,and i answered, he hasent changed, he wont change, so i can tell you what his reaction to anything is without even seeing him any more, they are so, same old same old, i know you are hurting bigtime at the moment, but there is no easy way and no quicker way to do it, i now only have to think of the bad times and right away i thank god its over,it doesnt mean i dont think of them, but it gets less and less important,and i can switch to something else now.
it will come with you but there is a pain barrier i went thru thinking i cant do this any more, yet after that it began to fade. good luckx
used, that's exactly what i want! i want this to be no longer "important"! there are so many other things that could be more important in my life. and i see what is going on in the world, and i provides some perspective, but i cannot wait until this is a nonissue for me. it's so exhausting.
only after reading about PDs did i realize that breaking up is going to be a whole other process. i thought that going through the crazy relationship was enough. now this??? my therapist said that this is bc breaking up with a PDI is a different and more difficult process.
I only know
jen, i do need to protect
Dazed
Michele, Thanks for sharing
nc
kerellen, how long did it
nocontact
Dazed
NC is not easy at all, but
Getting an N out of your
If you dont have children
sickofit - this is where I
Well then you are almost
i am starting to "deal" with
Well Im not an authority but
SOI, we don't have children.
yes he will eventually give
Well, winding the clock back
PP, i feel like the less
This is a link that was very
prettypeeved, thanks for this
Thank you prettypeeved
Don't thank me, thank Sick Of
dazed
dazed
used, that's exactly what i