Emotional capabilities of a Narcissist

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#1 Oct 21 - 12AM

betty2020

Emotional capabilities of a Narcissist

In speaking with one of our members tonight it prompted me to write a post regarding the emotional capabilities of a Narcissist.

We have discussed this topic however it is not brought up enough and I feel that this aids in our chronic cognitive dissonances. Our lack of understanding that individuals with NPD have little to no ability to experience true and genuine emotion is perplexing to us but it is paramount to our understanding of what this illness really is in order to accept reality.

The fact is that a Narcissist does not and can not have empathy because they do not have the ability to experience true genuine emotions such as Love, understanding, compassion, happiness for others etc....

We on the other hand are the opposite. We are empaths. This term describes a person that is "In Tune" with other peoples feelings. We have a deep connection that allows us to look through others pain and experience it on a much deeper level. Therefore we respond with the up most compassion, love and support in order to help the other person that is in distress. There is claim that this is hereditary and found within the make up of our DNA. This is a missing link between us and them. This key difference makes us a prime target for the predator.

Since we know and understand that this is what makes us different and apart from the personality disordered it is safe to say that what you are seeing when you receive affection, love or adoration from a Narcissist is actually a learned behavior. It is a response that he or she has picked up on at an early age, developed it as a tool to use for selfish purposes and is not a genuine response to a "feeling" or "emotion" as we all know the Narcissist is missing this key component.

Because we understand that empathy is hereditary we also understand that we can not alter this biological make up. It is permanent and we are powerless. This then gives rise to the question "knowing that they are lacking this biological element, where do I go from here?".

Now it becomes a matter of choice for us. We choose to continue in a relationship that is destine for failure and is abusive or we move on to greener pastures with someone that is healthy for us at some point in the future. Ultimately it is a decision we will all have to face at some point.

This in turn becomes about time. How long do we continue to allow the Narcissist in our lives? How long do we allow the abuse to continue? How long do we allow ourselves to suffer? In the end thats all it really comes down to....Our final choice. Some make it sooner rather than later and are able to escape with minimal damage. Others linger and suffer long term for their lack of choice. The one and only element you have control over in your relationship with your Narcissist is the power of choice.

#2 Oct 26 - 10AM

PumpKyn80

I realized that they don't

I realized that they don't care about anyone but themselves when I called my ExN just to talk because I had a bad day. He says "I am gonna to take a shower and call you back" and you guessed it no call back! Then days later he calls my phone multiple times while Im at work because he "needed" me. Sickening!

#3 Oct 22 - 8PM

anonymous

Betty

Thanks for this. This has been one of the missing links I was seeking. I just couldn't understand how he could say all of the things that he did with seeming emotion and feeling. I just couldn't believe that he didn't really FEEL what he was saying. The tears, the warmth, the seeming sincerity - I just kept thinking there's no way that could have been faked. But what you wrote, "Since we know and understand that this is what makes us different and apart from the personality disordered it is safe to say that what you are seeing when you receive affection, love or adoration from a Narcissist is actually a learned behavior. It is a response that he or she has picked up on at an early age, developed it as a tool to use for selfish purposes and is not a genuine response to a "feeling" or "emotion" as we all know the Narcissist is missing this key component." This is the missing piece of the puzzle. I think I understand now what he meant when he said he wasn't lying when he told me all those things - that he really did believe them. It had nothing to do with the 'truth' - it had everything to do with them not being real emotions but words said to serve a purpose. His words WERE learned responses, not gut-level heartfelt feelings. Because, like he said, at his core is a cold, heartless person. Betty - thanks for this. This has helped me to understand.

#4 Oct 22 - 7PM

michele115 (not verified)

Emotional Capabilities of a Narcissist

One word, one syllable simple like them... NONE

#5 Oct 26 - 12PM (Reply to #17)

Susan32

NO emotional intelligence

Narcs lack emotional intelligence, but to their credit, they do have consciences. Psychopaths, on the other hand, don't have consciences. There is a category called "empathic psychopaths." They KNOW full well they're inflicting emotional injury, but they enjoy it. Psychopaths are also against happiness in general... while Narcs have a limited sense of happiness, as in self-gratification.

#6 Oct 26 - 12PM (Reply to #18)

chickon2

Susan 32

How do you know if one is a Narc? or a Psychopath? or both? I mean I read about stuff.. BUT I have no idea what the EXn is.. I thought he was text book Mother enmeshment guy, nut narc stuff applies to him.. Histrionic stuff.. etc.. I guess only a professional in the field could say.. I dunno You seem to know alot about it though....

#7 Oct 26 - 12PM (Reply to #19)

Susan32

Narcs and Psychs

If "nut narc" applies to the ex-N, he might have psychopathic tendencies. I had a Narc boss. He had a conscience, so he even had a sense of SOME boundaries. He had SOME sense of right and wrong. I'd feel safe with him. Heck, I was able to talk about music with him. He had hobbies (like cooking/pastries) it doesn't excuse his abusive behavior, being a bullying passive boss... but he had some human qualities. I have a Narc grandmother. Again, she has a sense of right and wrong. She's more self-indulgent than say, malicious. I feel safe with her. As for the Psychopathic professor, he lacked a conscience. My mother was afraid he'd beat me up or kill me, he was THAT kind of a person. What's weird was that he couldn't talk about music;it would be like speaking Chinese in Mexico. I always felt nervous around him. One of his essays has been aptly summed up as "war and war and war and war." He didn't have hobbies. He tended to histrionics... but he could be incredibly cold. He was so cold and emotionless his colleagues' kids found him scary. He'd wonder aloud why people were afraid of him. Students and his fellow professors were wary around him. Perhaps he got tenure 7 years ago simply because they didn't want to find out what the reverse would be. The whole abandonment issue. He'd say sadistic things such as "I like watching you cry" and telling his male disciples that he wished I'd die (this was right after my grandfather died) My grandmother and my former boss don't even reach that level of sadism. Psychopaths are more cold, calculating and sadistic.

#8 Oct 26 - 1PM (Reply to #20)

chickon2

Ok

"Nut narc".. was a typo.. BUT hmmmm. See? you know your stuff... I have a Narc boss... He is not the devil.. He just doesn't give a crap about anyone.. Ss for the EXN. He has (I think) tendencies of Narc. Mother enmeshment, Histrionic (all that crying he did lord, have mercy)AND is so showy, and thinks everyone is his BFF.. psycho path??? He was not cold until the week before we broke up. and it was nothing like I love to see you cry, I wish you were dead, anything like that... He was stand offish.. Not exactly MEAN, he never cursed at me or anything like that ever.. For the most part he was terrific and very very loving and spoiled me mucho..(even though, fake) But, after seeing his private messages on FB and email.. He just seems like he will say whatever he needs to say to get what HE wants. sex, companionship, spotlight..whatever..I think he feels entitled to it.. I don't know.. It is all just weird.. I mean he knows the chick he is schmoozing now is married.. she is soo very young, and vulnerable and he has to KNOW that it is wrong??? BUT he continues to schmooze her but continues to ask others to hook him up with a good woman.. B/c he needs to get married. BUT.... his mom will make him break up with every single girl he is with.. She saw he was serious with me and she invented a story that I did voodoo on him.. or whatever.. He told me one time and I feel like he was being honest, I dunno He didn't seem like he was ON, or acting, at the time..he said all I wanna do it get married and have a baby.. BUT doesn't he see his mom is crazy? AND doesn't he see that he can't be in a mature relationship? AND really, he is not emotionally mature enough to be in any relationship but it seems like he does not see that, at all.. AND I dunno if he can be faithful, when push comes to shove in a relationship...When actual mature things need to be discussed.. He runs.. and keeps on looking.. It must be exhausting.. Or thrilling? I have no idea... thank you for takiing the time to answer.. It just helps when and if anybody new comes along.. :-)

#9 Oct 21 - 10AM

Susan32

They have limited emotions

Narcs/Psychs can be summed up as having this trio of emotions: jealousy, anger, fear. That's their genuine emotional range. They DO have those feelings (perhaps gratification when they get supply?) I could tell the ex-P he was angry and he denied it-but then he'd say he was offended (I reminded him that being offended&being angry are the same thing, duh) All that ambient rage. Not something I could've lived with.

#10 Oct 21 - 11AM (Reply to #14)

betty2020

Yes Susan they do have an

Yes Susan they do have an emotional response when they do not get their needs met or it is relation to them. This is displayed as jealousy,anger,revenge, fear and yes gratification as well for their achievements. It is once again all based on "self". What is good for them without regard to others. In order to have solid healthy relationships you must have the ability to see pain, love, joy through another's eyes. It is the key element that is lacking with a Narcissist. I couldn't agree more. only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#11 Oct 24 - 6PM (Reply to #15)

Susan32

Don't mess with an empath!

Ns/Ps want to present the image of being so cool, so "in control" of their emotions, of being invulnerable. But they DO have vulnerabilities. The ex-Psych professor didn't like being called by his first name, even by other professors;he didn't like being mocked. If he brought up the subject of his family, he liked it when HE was in control;if I did, well, there was hell to pay. After the D&D, I told the ex-P about his negative emotions, about how he enjoyed watching me suffer emotionally, I told him he was insecure, angry, envious,etc. Being an empath... I could sense his negativity. No wonder he said during that conversation "You don't know how I feel! My feelings are private." (By then, I was giving him as much privacy as those communal showers in high school) Whenever he shared his feelings with me... they were ALWAYS negative. Even when he gave his first lecture, and he made the infamous 14 copies, he wasn't gratified in his own achievement. He wasn't gratified about having his article online*... Very strange. All I sensed in him was negativity. One of his favorite Schopenhauer quotes was that the nobler a man is, the less he enjoys life. He proudly said he didn't enjoy life. He was against happiness in general... even his own. Narcs have a limited sense of happiness (self-gratification),but I think Psychopaths are against happiness in general. *This article has been summed up as "war and war and war and war and war."

#12 Oct 21 - 7AM

onwithmylife

wonderful post, Betty

I wish i had known then, what i finally know now to use the old adage, I hung in there for 15 off and on long grueling years, trying in vain to make it work,only to be discarded by him in the end. I think the only way i keep my sanity is to constantly remind myself life is a school, some pupils move on to another grade faster and some slower, I look at him as a teacher and I learned things about myself as well, not having grieved over my dad's death as a teenager played a big role because he did remind me of my dad in some ways, and I do believe I was trying to rewrite the past and recover from his death. I also tell myself I learned a lot of new interests from the man and we did have some good times together as well, went on trips, got to see new things, we shared many common interests and I developed myself into a more varied person. I learned to be less controlling myself and the hardest lesson for me in my lifetime, THE ART OF LETTING GO..............Years ago when i first started dating him, we talked about empathy and all he said, very unconvincingly, was he had empathy, but I think he did not know what it really meant.

#13 Oct 21 - 8AM (Reply to #2)

betty2020

The problem with this

The problem with this learned behavior is that they are so good at doing it that we are unable to see that it is not real nor genuine. We have a difficult time accepting that people actually exist on this earth void of real emotion. We tend to listen through words far more than watch the behaviors or our loved one. We hear the sweetness, charm and beautiful flow of his voice and mistake this for a true feeling of Love when it is not. It is merely a mimicked response to something that they have learned from a previous experience. This leaves us utterly confused. Our minds want us to believe that what we are told is in fact real. I mean People say what they mean right? Well most do but not all. And people with NPD do not say what they truly feel from an emotional standpoint period. They say what they must in order to fill what ever need they are lacking at that particular time. I am often asked "so this whole relationship was a lie?". Well yes and no. In the grand sceam it was a lie or not real but the Narcissist was not intentionally lying to you. He believes his emotional responses to be real and genuine. The only difference with him is that his motives for displaying love and affection are purely driven by underlying selfish reasons and not a genuine response. He thinks that this is normal. He believes that this is how everyone is. Remember he has never expedience true "Love" and emotion ever in his existence. So it is real to him. He does what he does because he needs something that you can give him (affection,sex etc). You do what you do because you are responding to your true nature as an empath. This is cycle of dysfunction is not something we see or are aware is even taking place at the time. So dont get down on yourself for those 15 years. Consider it a life lesson learned. A tough one but I believe that those tough lessons are what direct us to our true purpose in life. And these lessons build our character strength. The "Art of letting go" is probably one of the most difficult so this is a huge accomplishment in my book. xoxo only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#14 Oct 21 - 8PM (Reply to #12)

onwithmylife

For Betty

thanks for your words of encouragement, it has been a terribly long struggle involving every ounce of emotional strength I have. I do think that the nasty letter I got from him, after I sent a letter saying maybe he should re-examine his relationship with his mother, that perhaps he revisited that with the 5 women in his life, prompted him to send me the hateful, venomous letter spewing out HIS condition of desperation and depraviaty, projecting those things onto ME.That letter and some members of the board, was such a turning point that when I went to see my therapist this week he was stunned at my fast turnabout in thinking plus pleased for me. Like I told another member for the first time in nearly 17 years, the door is finally CLOSED, I had always left the door open just a little in case he wanders in, NO MORE......

#15 Oct 21 - 10AM (Reply to #3)

chickon2

Thank you for this

"I am often asked "so this whole relationship was a lie?". Well yes and no. In the grand sceam it was a lie or not real but the Narcissist was not intentionally lying to you. He believes his emotional responses to be real and genuine. The only difference with him is that his motives for displaying love and affection are purely driven by underlying selfish reasons and not a genuine response. He thinks that this is normal. He believes that this is how everyone is. Remember he has never expedience true "Love" and emotion ever in his existence. So it is real to him." This is the hardest part for me.. I hate that they are so good at the love/empathy mimic.. Mine would hug me so hard my back would crack.. He would cry so much, & say loudly God no one knows how wonderful this is.. blah blah.. Some of happiest times were with this person, and to know it is not "real" just hurts... I will drill it in my head... I will....

#16 Oct 21 - 10AM (Reply to #4)

betty2020

Yes if you look closely

Yes if you look closely Chickon you will see that many times their emotional responses are exaggerated and way over the top. Just like in the beginning when they are in heavy pursuit for their supply. They move in fast and put the charm on very heavy. This is a classic "Red Flag" of the Narc. Their ability to control this balance of a normal healthy emotional response and a overtly exaggerate response is not there. This is how we can identify them as disordered. This is mental illness in its truest form. Something to keep in mind for future relationships. only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#17 Oct 21 - 2PM (Reply to #6)

Steph

Excellent post, Betty. This

Excellent post, Betty. This lack of empathy in them, which makes them so inhuman, is the by far the hardest part to grasp. Chickron, mine too would hug me so hard my back would crack. He could be over the top with compliments and seem so happy and in love with me. Yet, when I was truley down and sad with family illnesses, he was not really there for me. It was like I was annoying him by talking about it. This is where I can really see how shallow his "love" for me was. Seems to me if you love someone sooooo much, then when they are down you feel it and want to help. It's funny too, because whenever I would talk about things with him I could always sense that he wasn't really "there" or "getting it". They are very odd to be around.

#18 Oct 21 - 8PM (Reply to #11)

almostlydia

I have tried relentlessly to

I have tried relentlessly to put all of this into words and I just can't get a grasp on it, even now. It is as tho they give us this most amazing 'ideal' of love come true and then after they have us all believing in the fairy tale, sweep the rug right out from under leaving us with the biggest 'duh' on the planet. I can't reconcile it in my mind or my head because it is just beyond my capacity as an empath to comprehend NO emotion. So, yes, learning the 'art of walking away' is a most courageous and incredible thing. I think I am going to post this on Helldwellers earlier post:) The art of walking away. almostlydia

almostlydia

#19 Oct 21 - 3PM (Reply to #7)

chickon2

staying strong 78

Thank you for this post.. All these posts help so much.. Why was the hugging even over the top? I could imagine how he was with you... It felt so good at first, right? How long were you with him? You saw that when push came to shove he was not someone you could count on.. You were smart to notice... Thank God.. EVEN after I snooped & saw all the gross ness for myself.. I still have days where I miss him & think NO way he could of lied... So all of this helps.. Yes the over the top ness.... with the compliments.. The XN & I would laugh till I peed.. He was good & over the top with that.. Laughing, crying.. I noticed that if we were with others, and the convo was not about him, he would daze out of the convo.. When it came to me and my problems... I guess b/c I was only with him for 3 months he still acted with empathy.. AND he would listen..AND be the rescuer.. He knew I was very sensitive to my mom being critical of me. OH he went over and beyond defending me and making sure my mom knew that what I said, went.. AND that everything I said was super important.. BUT in the end, that only hurt my mom so much.. B/c she could not believe he"showed" so much for me , then He was pooof gone like if it all never happend.. I love that you posted "getting it" EXACTLY what my one friend picked up on.. Thank you for sharing...

#20 Oct 21 - 6PM (Reply to #8)

Steph

chickon2

Yup. It sure did feel so good at first. I was with him for 6 months, then broke up for one year and back together for one year. We have been broken up and no contact since last december. "You saw that when push came to shove he was not someone you could count on.." Exactly. He said all the right things to me and would listen most of the time but his actions or inactions spoke volumes. For example, I had been on antidepressants and wanted to go off ( had consulted with doctor first). He was very pro getting of these meds and didn't believe in them and blah blah blah. The first few days I weaned the meds, I was a wreck from withdrawals. Couldn't stop crying spells. He went to a work BBQ instead of being there for me. When my grampa ( who is the father figure in my life) was very ill with cancer, my ex wasn't there for me. I got back from visiting my grampa while undergoing radiation treatments and was supposed to go to my exN's work summer party. ExN called in the morning and was supposed to call me again before I went to the party so he could meet me at the door there. He didn't call. I couldn't get a hold of him after numerous attempts. So I show up at the party alone, not knowing anyone and having to go look for him. I told him that bugged me and then that turned into him raising his voice to me telling me I am being a "bitch" "controlling" and that I ruined his night now and that I have no idea how stressful his job his and how stressed HE has been etc. I left crying. There are many examples of how he had no compassion for me whatsoever. Biggest being when he turned ice cold and called the police on me.... ( my story is posted under "Staying Strong78's story". Sometimes, it was like I was dealing with a complete stranger. You mentioned you guys laughed so hard together you peed. That was us too. We teased and joked and acted silly and laughed and laughed lots. That's where my cognitive dissonance always got me. He made me laugh so hard, could give great compliments and affection and cuddle me etc.....yet no compassion for my tears. Anyways, sorry that you went through this too:( I understand the crazymaking thoughts we are left with. You are not alone. xoxo

#21 Oct 22 - 9AM (Reply to #9)

chickon2

I am off to read your story, staying strong78

"That's where my cognitive dissonance always got me. He made me laugh so hard, could give great compliments and affection and cuddle me etc.....yet no compassion for my tears. " I have to read up on that Congnitive Dissonance stuff a bit more.. I get lost in some memories at times.. and I should not.. Lies after all.. I remember we took a long drive once, this was a few days, before he dumped me.. He was being cold.. He told me that one Christmas, he was going to his friend's house and a puppy with a red bow was crossing the street, and he said he could not stop in time, and he ran the puppy over, and he heard underneath the car, the "rattling" of the dog. I said OMG you didn't stop? he said what for? it was done.. I said but at least to say sorry to the people, the puppy was obviously a Christmas gift for someone? He said nothing.

#22 Oct 22 - 1PM (Reply to #10)

Steph

chickon2

There is two stay strongs on here lol. My story was posted back in January..... That is horrible about the dog he ran over. Prime example of having NO COMPASSION. A normal person would have stopped, like you said. My grandparents hit a dog on the highway once. It was dead, but they drove around to houses nearby to find the owners and tell them. That's how normal people behave. Reminded me of this one time we had watched a video clip online about chicken factory farms. One chicken had broken legs and couldn't stand up. It was struggling on the ground and rolling in circles.....I felt so bad for it even though it's a chicken....exN laughed at that. And some of the chickens weren't killed instantly and ended up being boiled alive during feather removal process. It was horrific. exN response was "oh well. they have to". They really are heartless.

#23 Oct 21 - 11AM (Reply to #5)

mystwoman

This is so true. Many times

This is so true. Many times their emotional responses are exaggerated and way over the top. Both my xnh and his P daughter could turn their emotional responses on and off just like a water faucet. Much like turning the handle on a faucet, sometimes the flow absolutely gushed out without any control, sometimes it looked like the correct amount. I know that I actually used to tell my xnh's P daughter (very sarcastically on my part), "Oh no! You're not getting your way. You'd better whip out those tears and make some drama really quick!" The tears would then promptly dry up before I could snap my fingers, because she knew that I seeing through her act. Time to try another manipulative strategy for her. lol. My xnh could do the same thing. It was uncanny to watch.

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