Does the D & D cycle continue no matter who they are with?

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#1 Jun 28 - 11AM

imabloke

Does the D & D cycle continue no matter who they are with?

I'm having a bad day. I keep going over the same stuff...
Everything seemed to be alright up until October 2009. Why why why... it just doesn't makes sense. I don't know what was lies or truth anymore.
Now she's with her boss. And its a mind f**k. Something was going on while she was with me, but when did it start? It just casts a black shadow over the 2.5 years we were together. Its just so cruel. She didn't even want any photos of us over the last couple of years. God i feel so used.
This cycle of D&D will he (the boss) get the same treatment?

#2 Jun 30 - 7AM

agnesmurphy17

D&D

Yes. Your N will D&D the next victim. I wondered the same same thing. Everybody does. I left my N in 5/09. He replaced me immediately. By 9/09 he had a new woman living in the house I still co-owned with him. This NW contacted me recently. She left him in the middle of the night (3/09) in her PJ's & has an retraining order now. He was worse to her than with me! I had a 6 month 'honeymoon' which ended with a marriage. Her, the D&D started almost immediately. Why she stayed with him I do not know. Even gave her some of the same lines he gave to me! "I am happier with you than I have ever been in my life." What is interesting is to see how they lie. He told her the direct opposite about something that he told me. The answers to the usual questions lovers ask are different. We cannot fathom the layers upon layers of deceit these pathologicals operate on. So her new man is going to get what you got. D&D, sooner or later. These pathologicals have patterns of behavior they all share. Then each individual pathological has his or her own patterns. D&D is fundamental to the pathology.

#3 Jun 30 - 12PM (Reply to #42)

Janet

I will bet the new gf gets

I will bet the new gf gets the same treatment. His past should have warned me. He was engaged to a girl, worked for her father, traveled with her (in photos she looks sweet, adorable, fun and happy). He cheated on her and got another girl pregnant (he never expressed regret over what he did to her when he spoke of it). The pregnant girl did not talk to him during pregnancy, they tried to live together for a while after the boy was born, but that didn't work. He had another gf that he said he dropped because he just simply lost sexual interest in her. Overall, he didn't do TOO much badmouthing about them, so it seemed like he was not really to blame. hmmmmmmmm well, I got the treatment and I bet the new one will too. I feel for her. Peace. J

Peace. J

#4 Jun 29 - 4PM

imabloke

Thanks

Thanks to everyone that has made a comment - you've helped me so much. I don't feel so alone.

#5 Jun 29 - 5PM (Reply to #40)

Susan32

Thanks for being here

While this site is titled "All About Him",you've shown that men suffer too. Women aren't the only victims. There are female frauds too. Glad you've found some peace and understanding here. Your "intelligent narc" story is insightful.

#6 Jun 28 - 7PM

AnotherPath

imabloke

try as hard as it is to not focus on them, it just hurts you and doesn't change anything. Yes, of course he will get the same treatment, it's just a matter of time. Her true colours will show just as they did with you and I bet before you. I tracked down the exN's old girlfriends one of 16 years ago, not only did he punch them, he made them get out of the car in the middle of nowhere, paid prostitutes, masturbated all the time in front of his computer, binged on biscuits, financially abuse them, and was evil....all these things he did when I was with him. We actually had a laugh at how pathetic he is. They repeat the whole sorry abuse over and over. It's who they are. Glad you're out too, she's his problem now.

Ending the dance

#7 Jun 30 - 9AM (Reply to #36)

ewa

Do you think is a good idea

I think about contacting my exN ex gf. Which he was in 2 years relationship before me and he was engaged to her too. I am just curious if she had the same experience like me. But i am not sure if it is good idea. What if she tells him that i have contacted her? This is what am most afraid. What do you think?

#8 Jun 30 - 12PM (Reply to #37)

NinjaGirl

I don't think you should

Why bother? If she tells you he was wonderful, you'll feel bad. If she tells you he was awful, it doesn't change anything. If she tells him, he'll know he still has control. Sometimes...no, ALL THE TIME you have to just trust your gut and let things go. Trust that you have a purpose and engage in other things to think about. I thought very briefly about contacting my ex's ex, but what purpose would it serve? It would only make me think about him, and I'm getting over him and don't need the setback, you know? It's over. I accept it. I daresay I'm kind of happy about it. There were so many times I wasn't happy in the relationship. I feel free now. There's nothing to go back and wonder about.

#9 Jun 30 - 1PM (Reply to #38)

ewa

Yes you are right!

#10 Jun 28 - 6PM

thisisnotfun

Sooner or later they will

Sooner or later they will make you insane. They will make you think you are crazy and not enough for them. It will be all your fault.... It is their way or the highway.... They all have patterns. As long as you play along, like being treated like an object, don't have any opinions, don't have any feelings, emotions, empathy, never sick, never have plans with others, never and I mean never disagree with them, worship them, worship their life, know they are smarter, work harder, don't care about not ever having a normal relationship, Don't care about double standards, they can do whatever they want, when they want and with who they want, love roller coaster rides and love DRAMA...... They will keep you......

#11 Jun 28 - 11PM (Reply to #30)

loveofmylife

omg this is not fun

This cracked me up. You got it exactly right. And when you start getting DD for doing any one of the things above (such as expressing an opinion or disagreeing with them or pointing out that you are being treated like an object), and if that DD causes you to get emotional - then the finger gets pointed at you for CREATING DRAMA and "THEY CAN'T DEAL WITH DRAMA" although they are the ones creating it!

#12 Jun 30 - 8AM (Reply to #32)

PumpKyn80

Unbelievable!

My ExN did that too. Whenever I called him out of his behavior, he would said "You are stressing me out" or "I can't deal with drama" and it was always him that was creating the drama by behaving the way he did. In the beginning he said "he was not about drama" but I came to realize that to him drama meant disagreeing with him, criticizing him, putting up with his withdrawal/cold behavior without saying anything and god forbid just wanting a normal relationship with communication. In his mind wanting my needs met=drama

#13 Jun 30 - 3PM (Reply to #34)

loveofmylife

drama

god yes. it is laughable. Here was an example series of "drama" events: - my dad is dying in the hospital. He was diagnosed with cancer and in three weeks he was gone. quick. - to be with my dad I asked N to run my business; at a VERY high price for those three weeks. - i am in the hospital, i get an email from N saying "you have NO SPINAL column for not firing X by now! I am disgusted with it!" - ok, well X worked for N for 10 months and had only worked for me for two months. Why didn't N fire X??? And why didn't N bother to ask first why I didn't fire N. I actually had a valid legal reason. And even if I should have fired X, why use the words "no spinal column" when I was caring for my dying father. - I approach N afterwards saying, "wow, that was kind of harsh saying that. I can't believe you said that to me knowing what I was going through..." I said it very calmly and very objectively, half way expecting an apology. - N says "i will continue to tell you what you are doing that is wrong with your company". no apology. no nothing. no acknowledgement that what he said was out of line. - i say "it is hard for me to work with you..you criticize me more than anyone in my life added up!" I get no apology, no promise for change, no nothing. - he then calls this drama. I'm supposed to just take his abuse and have no emotional response. That he can't deal with our relationship because there is so much drama. He has never dealt with drama before (I have never even used the word drama to describe any relationship in my entire life!). he emails his other harem members telling them that his life is so hard because of the drama that he has to deal with at work. He hates his life. - IN the meantime, I find out about two other drama incidents happening in his life around the same time. His fake GF left his bed in the middle of the night one night because he kept having sex with her and would not commit to a long term relationship; leaving her stuff behind. I kind of call that drama. And a few nights later, a girl "friend" tried to come on to him, he pulled away and said some nasty words, she got upset and left, he promised to call her the next day and never did and she got very upset. I call that drama too. - I've never had these kinds of things happen to me in any other relationship. Never had a boyfriend leave on me in the middle of the night and I've never left anyone. Never had an incident where one person made a move because they thought the other one was coming on to them and it was all just a game. So, yes, the lying and double standards and blame shifting is amazing!

#14 Jun 30 - 8AM (Reply to #33)

GIJ

Drama = Red Flag

Well put PumpKyn80! I recall bringing something to the attention of my narc and that was the exact wording I got, "Too much drama GIJ." I was immediately dismissed. Major red flag I ignored and regret not drilling down further into what was really going on with him and my entire situation. I wish I knew then what that really meant!! I love your description - something we all need to see immediately with anyone!! "But I came to realize that to him drama meant disagreeing with him, criticizing him, putting up with his withdrawal/cold behavior without saying anything and god forbid just wanting a normal relationship with communication. In his mind wanting my needs met=drama

#15 Jun 29 - 11AM (Reply to #31)

rainbow1

About 2 weeks ago after I

About 2 weeks ago after I called him out on telling all of these horrible lies about me to all of our friends he said "You are all drama and I want nothing to do with it anymore!"

_______________________________________________
"dont let yesterday take up too much of today"

#16 Jun 28 - 6PM

baddream

If the boss is sane, probably....

It may be possible to avoid the d&d (Devalue & Discard). N does d&d when his mask comes off and you see who he is and confront him with the truth. He no longer sees the image of adoration being reflected back at him. Where is his supply? This is why he D&D's... to TRAIN you to act differently. So if you are willing to do the following, you might get to avoid d&d: 1. No matter what he does, look the other way. 2. When he lies and cheats, do not say anything. 3. When he withholds, do not ask him for anything more than he is willing to give. 4. Do not question anything. 5. Do not criticize him. 6. Do not trust your own gut. Let him lead you blindly. 7. Look at him with adoration, no matter what. 8. Take care of him financially. 9. Clean up all his messy situations. 10. Be a ladder for his life. 11. Treat him as if no one else exists. 12. Forsake a life of you own. .... you get the idea. Are you ready to do this? Is anybody? I think not. So, then... as for the d&d I would say it is inevitable---- and truly, to be discarded by a narcissist is a blessing in disguise. Break the D&D cycle and get out for good!

#17 Jun 29 - 11PM (Reply to #28)

girlfriday

training

You're so right about the "training." It's like... First D&D...Make mental note NOT to disagree with him about a painting he likes. Second D&D...make mental note NOT to ask him, in the midst of a TOTALLY overwhelming day, if you can have 5 minutes alone to recharge your batteries. Third D&D...Make mental note NOT to ask him if he could give your dogs fresh water (because according to him, that's a waste of water.) Soon you just become a sad mute with eggshells on your feet. (note: this refers to my N#1; not to the lying trickster who drove me here. N#2 isn't a D&Der.)

#18 Jun 29 - 4PM (Reply to #27)

imabloke

You're right...

I have to say, and i don't want to - but your right - i did most of the stuff on the list and other stuff as well. Sometimes i feel a right prat. I lost my soul for that woman. And to think i nearly married her. God i'm glad i'm out. NC forever

#19 Jun 29 - 12PM (Reply to #26)

Used

sarah 787, though you feel

sarah 787, though you feel like this now, i know that feeling when it begins to pass[ and it will you will become so much stronger, i saw my exn today and looked at him and thought, what was i doing with him why did i waste those years with him, then i relized, whats the diffrence now.HE wasborn a loser he will die a loser good riddance.

#20 Jun 29 - 12PM (Reply to #25)

Used

omg

this is reading my marriage, unbelievable, was i in a trance yep am i now ,co,s when i kicked him out he had to sleep in his car, i had cossested him so much he coulndnt cope, all the people would thought he was so wonderful all disappeared, i was the glue holding him together and when he threated suicide, i thought good, in wedded bless , he had slamed a china plate in my face.tried to kill me by driving at me,hit me till i was on the floor, then began kicking me in the ribs.3 of many things, but when i think back to when i told him to go[first time in 31 years] i so ment it i gave him 4weeks to get out, i managed 3 and changed the locks loser, he was like an abandoned child he hadnt even had to think for himself, so couldnt. i treated him like the a???hole he was. sortedxx ROYALLY D AND DEVALUED poor baby

#21 Jun 28 - 7PM (Reply to #24)

NancyM

Raises her hand sheepishly too

Haha, this one made me laugh cos I did that too for a while b4 I truly understood what was going on. And true, if you give them what they want they do get worse, more smug, and are sooo superior in how dumb they think you are. Later I told my XN that if people treated me like I was stupid, I generally let them. He was utterly horrified at that and asked me why I would do such a thing. I said it was always amazing what people revealed about themselves when they believe the audience is stupid. I guess I was starting to play him at his own game, but I never actually let on to exactly how much I knew. Excellent list baddream.

Nevergoback

#22 Jun 28 - 6PM (Reply to #23)

Happy1

I'm so ashamed of myself

I'm doing everything on this right now to keep my N. I feel insane and out of control for doing it but don't want to lose him. Don't know why.

#23 Jun 28 - 6PM (Reply to #20)

dysenchanted

Raises her hand,sheepishly

My name is dysenchanted, and I was a narco-holic. I'm ashamed to say, I did everything on that list for a couple of years.

#24 Jun 29 - 1PM (Reply to #22)

smileyfacepr

I did it

I did all of that list and more for 7 yrs and still miss him though I realize hes a loser..but I still dream of him and wonder about him daily....what a friken addiction..this is worse than kicking heroin (i watch Intervention)!! Cant wait till withdrawl symptoms go away in 12 mnths NC!!! They r bad,bad men w/black hearts!! How can they hurt someone who loved and gave them soooo much????

smileyfacepr

#25 Jun 28 - 7PM (Reply to #21)

baddream

Narco-holic

Don't feel bad. We all did. If it makes you feel better, even if you didn't do all those things he still might have d&d ---- just to see you squirm and be miserable and then stay with him anyway. That is supply for him too! I confronted my ex, got the d&d, and then went back to him. What a thrill that was for him. The ultimate roller coaster ride and he was loving it. The more d&d's and I kept going back.. He treated me worse and worse each time because of it. I lost all respect for myself until NC. Now I'm the one in control and there isn't anything he can do about it.

#26 Jun 28 - 6PM (Reply to #17)

Steph

lol

and i honestly believe that even if a person managed this.....the N would STILL find a reason to d&d.

#27 Jun 28 - 7PM (Reply to #18)

Janet

You are so right! They get

You are so right! They get bored and find a new supply. And/or disrespect you for being a doormat. There you are no self-esteem left and they tell you that they hate you and disrespect what you are. There is just no winning with a loser. Peace. J

Peace. J

#28 Jun 29 - 2PM (Reply to #19)

Susan32

Self-respect

Wow. You have the Ns/Ps game down perfectly. They demean, demean, and demean until you lack self-respect, then slam you for lacking self-respect. It's disgusting. They can't stand you being a doormat, because it reveals how loathsome they truly are... but if you're not a doormat and have a backbone, they go into rage/D&D mode. Winning is impossible. That's why reading a recent plot summary of FOX's GLEE was triggering for me. Rachel, the cheerleader, has a crush on Mr. Schuester. He tells her about a former student who showered gifts on him, and how he left her unrequited to the point that she attempted suicide, and is now comatose. Mr. Schuester then humiliates Rachel by making her do household chores with his awful wife (a Narc who manipulates him with a false pregnancy) In the end, Rachel APOLOGIZES to Mr. Schuester for having a crush on him, and he tells her one day she'll find a man who really respects her. He tells her that her feelings for him come from a lack of self-respect. The underlying premise--and which REALLY disgusts me--is that teachers really DON'T respect their students. Respect is SUPPOSED to underly all human relationships, including the teacher/student one. And yes, Mr. Schuester blames the student for her attempting suicide. My ex-P made the SAME arguments as the fictional FOX teacher. He said that I was embarrassing myself, that I lacked self-respect because I had feelings for him. He said that he didn't respect me as a human being, and I shouldn't respect him as one. I DEFENDED my ex-P's abuse because he was a teacher. But as one of my friends said "A teacher isn't supposed to destroy your self-confidence, humiliate you, and make you feel worthless."

#29 Jun 28 - 6PM (Reply to #15)

Janet

Love it. I was guilty of

Love it. I was guilty of not doing the above, shame on me. It takes a lot of education to accept the reality but there it is. We are lucky to be out. Peace. J

Peace. J

#30 Jun 28 - 6PM (Reply to #16)

Steph

we were all guilty of some

we were all guilty of some of the above I think.

#31 Jun 28 - 4PM

Steph

I think they do it to

I think they do it to EVERYONE eventually. I hope you read the article that broken23 recommended, it's very good. I think we all have wondered if someone else will be treated better or if he(she) will change for someone else. Part of that is the fact that we have been manipulated into believing WE are the problem. Once you start deprogramming from their mindgames....you see ir much clearer. Two times I was dumped and he was with someone else immediately.....same as you, something was going on when with me. Anyways, both of those girls were dumped too. It's not us. It is them. Always was and always will be.

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