do they fear intimacy

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#1 Nov 28 - 1AM
Anonymous (not verified)
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do they fear intimacy

just sitting here thinking of one of the last conversations I had with the Narc

I know technically they cant feel love.. but i know they can fear..

he said that he was having this need, not a want to contact me and he had to fight it off- really fight it off and he culd see that it had the potential to really affect his work.

I scared him...the feelings he had for me scared him as things were so intense between us

we were playing with fire...he didnt want to hurt me
or for us to get stupid and fall in love (he had backup woman at the time)

that we would be in eachothers lives... it was clear to him that we had to stop the nonsense of kicking eachother out etc.

I basically told him- that it seemed as if it was his feelings that he was speaking of and not mine and I would not be falling stupidly in love with him.

Im not sure what he wanted from that conversation really... because I didnt feel manipulated at all... soon after all hell broke loose and he had an overreaction to something minor yet again. I saw him for how sick he is..when I caught him in lies... but this conversation to me was a bit odd.

I have since gone NC..and blocked him. Im sure he was stunned that his best source of supply is gone.

Nov 28 - 3PM
Hermes
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SV says

"The narcissist believes that being in love is actually merely going through the motions. To him, emotions are mimicry and pretence. He says: "I am a conscious misogynist. I fear and loathe women and tend to ignore them to the best of my ability. To me they are a mixture of hunter and parasite." Most male narcissists are misogynists. After all, they are the warped creations of women. Women gave birth to them and moulded them into what they are: dysfunctional, maladaptive, and emotionally dead. They are angry at their mothers and, by extension at all women." From an article: http://samvak.tripod.com/faq79.html
Nov 28 - 2PM
Hermes
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Intimacy issues

"Narcissists are frequently 'super-givers,' but authentic intimacy/closeness is often avoided, given their engulfment fears. Caregiver types can be drawn to borderline disordered individuals who match their own attachment issues, so that 'safe' emotional proximity becomes a non-issue." Core injuries that undermine/derail self-esteem start during infancy, and are reinforced and perpetuated throughout childhood. In the simplest of terms, core disturbance means that the 'hub' of your wheel is broken or damaged in some fashion. When the very center of your being has been compromised, all the spokes which emanate from this point, will be weak and susceptible to breaking under any amount of strain. Core trauma impacts every aspect of our existence. It influences self-worth, and determines how we think about and take care of ourselves, in personal and professional relationships" From: http://gettinbetter.com/dance.html
Nov 28 - 2PM
Layla
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He didn't "fear" you because of any such "love" emotion.

It doesn't "work" that way with these "people". "I scared him...the feelings he had for me scared him".... Not to sound harsh or hurtful but you are not grasping this right- he has NO FEELINGS for you like you are thinking he does. He is nothing like us Nons.....he isn't. The sooner you can wrap your head around the fact he was using you, the better. He isn't even fully doing it all intentionally, he is DISORDERED and nothing they do makes any sense. He isn't stunned either, he doesn't care but he WILL try to get supply back ONLY because that is easier than having to find new supply, which to them is actually BETTER, they are just LAZY. They lie and manipulate and use and abuse. That is what they do. They DO and SAY ANYTHING to get what they want. love~ Layla
Nov 28 - 11AM
greengirl91
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I had just made a `review` of

I had just made a `review` of my experience with this Narc man..and boy, I`ve been through a Lot..I made things for him I haven`t done for any ther man.. I wanted to be everything for him, best of myself, and I hated myself with passion, because in that certain moment, I was arleady so destroyed by the environment I was living in. I thought, foolishly, that if I had met him at another moment in my life, in a moment where I could be `the best of myself`, then he would have loved me. But you know what I have realised?..That NO MATTER WHAT, I would have done, or not done, be or not be, this man would have still treated me the same way. Because Nothing mattered t him in the first place..it was a big thing for me to understand, and I still process that emotionally. It took so many years and devaluations, for me to understand that he has nothing to give me. I want a man who is whole, emotionally, not one who thinks with his weenie. I want a man with a heart and soul..but I had fallen in love with the devil instead. Not only that he fears intimacy, but does everything to avoid it at any cost..I realised I really did my time with this person. I`ve been with him in trips, did everything I could to get to knw him as a friend, and maybe that is one of the mst dissapointing aspects..that this never mattered at all to him, but it did mattered to me. I still dream him, and I guess I still process all the mess. But from the outside of the picture and rollercoaster, you know? Destiny, can you please tell me I see you`re here for two years, did your perception of him and the things you`ve been through changed? Are you better emotionally, than when you came here for answers? Do you still have questions, or doubts? Just curious. GG :)
Nov 28 - 1PM (Reply to #10)
onwithmylife
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green girl

Hope you do not mind my jumping here, but i have been here as well over 2 years and saw my exnarc 2 times in the last 2 months, by accident in a store and I still ask myself after 3 years of not seeing him, what the hell happened to the man i use to love and thought i knew so deeply, sexual we were like soulmates,even though I do not believe in that term, he has become a scared old frightened geezer, with a blank look on his face all the time, he looked like he was ready to crawl out of his own loose skin, am not trying to be nasty but just my perception seeing him and of course he could not stop for 5 mins and talk with me ,not the handsome, tall, self confident,calm and in control man I loved. IT was truly ALL AN ACT... hope this helps a little............We spent 15 off and on years together and lived together for one of them......he too feared intimacy said once i was' smothering him' and that is so far from who I am if anything too independent.all goes back to dear old mommy
Nov 28 - 3PM (Reply to #11)
greengirl91
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No, no not at all, I was

No, no not at all, I was curious about how much things change after two or three years, when you realise you have to pull yourself together, and stop living a lie with these men. 15 years, man it must have been a challenge..and a Lot of tossing around and processing. They really like to `consume` people literraly, don`t they? Like a vortex.. "We don`t see things like they are, we see them as we are." - I like that quote. We simply cannot grasp the concept of someone being completely `feelingless` or without remorse, because we assume deep down, everyone has something good in them, right? 'Malignant Optimism" like Sam Vaknin says. Well he did his all time best to convince me, that nothing mattered, it was all an act, that `love` was an act. I always thought there must be something fake in him, and it had to be one option or the other. It`s like preaching Christianity, and participating in orgyes the next day. That much difference it is between his personalities/realities. Who can keep up with that dance? I know I tried..and there are still days when I dream, and think that I could have done even more..but the conclusion would have been the same anyway. Thank you for your answer!
Nov 28 - 5PM (Reply to #12)
onwithmylife
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greengirl

i sometimes think what would have happen had i not sent him a letter when he moved out of state,asking for a more equal relationships and what about my wants,needs, health issues as well, why is it always about you/ a very kind,thought provoking letter but I wanted to change the dynamics of our relation ship and he wanted to keep the CONTROL, the upper edge, no compromise, well i realize now with years behind me, it would have unfolded the exact same way sooner or later,unless I wanted to keep on being a doormat and it was emotionally kiiling me inside, I was NOT who I should be...make sense, glad you understand too that nothing you could have done differently would have changed the outcome. Even when i was with him i use to say to myself, this is all a fraud,, amazing isn't it......in the end no one is ever good enough for them.....we always see things as we want them to be, not as they are, such a true quote.......Sam v's book was my bible for the first 6 months out, carried it with me where ever i went, like Linus and his blanket!
Nov 28 - 9AM
Goldie
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Destiny

It is natural for you to still be in cognative dissonance. Your confusion is understandable. Narcs manipulate like other's breath, they maniupulate in their sleep. They maniuplate about the day of the week or the color of the sky. It is contant, continuous, and a major part of their makeup. The notion that you did not feel manipulated is unfounded with a narc. You will not always feel manipulated this is how they suck you in. They will throw out small truth's and say what they know woman like to hear, and are in fact manipulating you with all of this and you think, well this feels different or real. Don't kid yourself, this is exactly when they are showing their true talents and their ability to master the fine art of manipulation. I have spoken with many a narc after they have just manipulated a woman and they are laughing over how they cried, said just the right thing, and the "bitch" bought their lie's. They basically are saying: dumb bitch. Narc live with fear and anger and they get off on their ability to kick it up a notch and manipulate you without your even knowing it. This is what they do best. This is how they are. Also, they fear intimacy. This is by no stretch to say that they are capable of intimacy and by no stretch to say that he felt so much for you because you are so special and different that you are able to bring out love in a narc. Doesn't happen, you are kidding yourself with this, just more excuses for you to build a case to break NC in the future. Narcs do not fall in love. They use these terms to manipulate you and it sounds like he has done a good job. This guy is good at what he does. Think of a snake, a fox, a tiger. They are looking for food, for prey. They see you, you look like a good target and they do what they have to do to get you, tire you out, weaken you so that they can go in for the kill. It is no different than that and if conning you with a pile of shit about how they are afraid about how close you were getting is going to push your buttons then so be it, they will say it. They don't give a shit because they are not feeling it, they are using is as a manipulative tool to get more supply. My adivice if you do not want to break NC again is to do some more reading on what a PD is and what a PD is not. And no, your narc is not different than all the other narcs. Your narc does not have a secret ability to love your where the others cannot. This is all about you kidding yourself, looking for excuses to break NC. God bless, Goldie
Nov 28 - 2PM (Reply to #6)
Journey
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Thanks for the reminder

Thanks for the reminder Goldie... it is truly astounding at how good they are at manipulation. Obviously they have had a lot of time to practice perfecting this skill (for the older ones at least). I've been feeling down lately, missing the jerk. This helped snap me out of it! LOL!

Journey on...

Nov 28 - 2PM (Reply to #7)
Winter
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Same here Journey :)

Except I was not missing the jerk, just feeling low about the whole thing.
Nov 28 - 4PM (Reply to #8)
Journey
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I hear you Winter... same

I hear you Winter... same here really. I miss the guy he pretended to be and who I thought was real. There is a HUGE difference in that to who he actually is. So no, I guess it isn't HIM I miss so much.

Journey on...

Nov 28 - 10AM (Reply to #2)
Winter
Winter's picture

Thank you Goldie

I did need to read it this morning. The CD is tough when they are subtle and smart. They can sound and act so real, so real! Without the knowledge we are acquiring here it is so difficult to not to fall into their trap, not to be fooled. It goes againts everything we knew about people and life so far. Sad, very sad. Love Winter
Nov 28 - 11AM (Reply to #3)
Lisa87
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Yes thank you Goldie

Needed to read this again even though I know the truth. My ExN is a very good manipulator and uses all the tactics to get to me, starts out innocent about my kids etc or work, vacations we took and then hooks me with a nice dinner etc. I've caved too many times but won't get sucked back in cause I know what he is about now and that he has OW. I have a hard time understanding why he won't go away and leave me alone after I have ignored and asked nicely (and angrily) for him to never contact me again several times. I know its all about control and he doesn't like that I have been the one who initiates the breakups and block him immediately at the first sign of anything negative. Figured he would have given up by now but he hasn't. I think he is still trying to manipulate and control me and doesn't like that he can't do it. I also think that he is so pissed that I have been so strong with NC and blocking that he could be planning another nasty D&D if I ever cave again (which will NEVER happen). I just wish he would go away forever....but he lives near me and works at same company. He was supposed to move but hasn't and probably never will because he wants to manipulate and control his ex-wife too by not selling. He is a sick miserable bastard and I'm sick of having to stay strong all the time to avoid his sickness.
Nov 28 - 11AM (Reply to #4)
destiny (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Lisa I can relate...it is

Lisa I can relate...it is really tough to stay NC...and I have caved so many times... this last time t hings were really good... but then they started to go to crap...and i found out lies...and i had to download youmail...so I will stay NC... otherwise Im not so sure I could do it...as he is very good at convincing me... right now I am certain he is fearing i will tell the backup woman all i know.... let him think that he like yours is a sick bastard! all about control...he actually installed this app so my calls wouldnt go thru... like I am the cruel nasty one. the only way he can contact me now is if he were to show up here...and I know he never would... he is a lazy lug that lives on his couch. Im better than him and he lost the best supply ever... but seriously who the hell does my Narc think he is...he is so ugly and old... if he didnt manipulate me I never would have fallen for him...ick gross man! if you were to look at before and after pics of me ,...yu can clearly see what a toll he has taken. I pity the backup woman....so clueless that she is.... he loves cheating on her...sick
Nov 28 - 2PM (Reply to #5)
Layla
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Yes, we are the crazy ones..........

....they all say this, it's projection and blaming all rolled up into one...the whole relationshit ending is all our fault because we are crazy and "need help".......good Lord...and good riddance to these fools! Get yourself back to you girl, don't let this azzclown bring you down! You can do it and be better than ever!!! love~ Layla