Do Narcissists know they are narcissists?

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#1 Dec 12 - 10AM
Maggster
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Do Narcissists know they are narcissists?

I was just wondering as I am Day 12 No Contact. Do they plan out to hurt us, is it intentional. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my arms around this. I know they know the difference between right & wrong & this is why they lie but what about all the other stuff. During the "honeymoon" phrase when he swept me off my feet and I felt like the luckiest woman in the world, had he already planned to manipulate, control & devalue me? Just random questions.

Thanks!

Dec 21 - 2PM
terri
terri's picture

does it matter?

I used to hate answers like this when I was a newbie on this forum but have come to gain a better perspective. Not long ago, a new friend gave me a book that she thought I'd enjoy. It was titled, "How to Hug a Porcupine: Dealing With Toxic & Difficult to Love Personalities" by John L. Lund. While this book doesn't ever address the different types of toxic personalities (specifically narcissism), it describes my experience with my exN perfectly. I hesitate to recommend this book because it does delve into possible ways to remain in a relationship with toxic people. But when you get further into his prescribed methods, you get the picture of a lonely, unfulfilled, unloved and underappreciated existence - possibly even including verbal abuse and emotional abandonment. Over and over again, he reminds the reader that they absolutely cannot ever change the toxic person and that they must always accept life on his/her terms. Most of his case studies end up with the "victim" altering their expectations to the point of remaining in a "relationship" but living separate lives while still remaining trapped in a loveless, disrespectful, lonely place. So, I believe that asking whether or not they know they are narcs is pondering the possibility that they could admit their disorder, seek professional help, change, and all will be OK...in time. The most difficult thing to accept when trying to recover from a narc is that they are exactly who there are, whether they know it or not. Doesn't matter...nothing will ever change with them. WE know they are disordered and toxic. WE know that life with them becomes unbearable and that life is too short to suffer the misery they inflict. The only answer is to stay NC and run like hell! :)

Believe in yourself!
Terri

Dec 21 - 12PM
virginia (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

When I told my boyfriend that he was a Cerebral Narcissist..He..

When I told my boyfriend that he was a Cerebral Narcissist, he got very upset. He didn't accept or deny it. He was upset that I found fault in him... Another thought here...One time in our 27 months of exclusive dating. I approached him with wanting physical intimacy. Note that Cerebral N's rarely want sex with a partner. They enjoy frustrating and controlling their woman by withholding it. Somatic N's are the playboys. Back to my point...when I approached him with my need to be close physically, he got up off the couch and he said, "Honey, I have to keep you off balance." I replied 5 min. later as I was stunned to hear him say that, "Do you really mean that, because I often times feel that you are trying to do that to me?" He replied, "No, I am just kidding." I was quietly stunned and concerned because the real self appeared with why he was withholding sex...He knew what and why he was withholding. I think they know what they are doing, but they don't think they have a flawed nature. They feel entitled to being the way they are...
Dec 12 - 12PM
CrAzY4trying
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I believe on a certain

level they know something is wrong with them.... When i first started dating mine 6yrs ago...i remember hearing things like ... im on my best behavior.... i dont want to screw this one up... did i score point with that... but the one thing that i really remember is when i asked what made me different from the rest was i didn't put up with their shit....however as the "relationship" went on i became weak... lost... confused... etc... today i am working on getting my life back to where it was before i met the N ... I know its in me, i just need to cut through the chaos, to get to the other-side...
Dec 12 - 12PM (Reply to #12)
Used
Used's picture

c4t

one thing that i really remember is when i asked what made me different from the rest was i didn't put up with their shit....however as the "relationship" went on i became weak... lost... confused... etc... today i am working on getting my life back to where it was before i met the N ... I know its in me, i just need to cut through the chaos, to get to the other-side... YOU CAN DO IT......THIS WAS ME IN THE END....I HAVE DONE IT AND COME OUT THE OTHERSIDE SO WILL YOU...XXX
Dec 12 - 1PM (Reply to #13)
CrAzY4trying
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;)

im feeling stronger each and every day..... TY.... XXOO
Dec 12 - 12PM
jackguy
jackguy's picture

I am still not sure whether ex is just an n or a psychopath

My feeling is that she is a psychopath as she had no normal physiological response to fear, in hindsight I see she was gathering information on me prior to the lovebombing, she appears very fixated on material gain which I understand is an aspd trait... It is so disorientating being abused that it is hard to make a clear distinction for me.
Dec 12 - 10AM
Hunter
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How does a Lion in the wild

How does a Lion in the wild pick his next prey when he's hungry? Same thing.. The idealization is part of the process.. They get you bare your soul to later use it against you ..next devalue, then discard.. Think about a lion in the wild hungry on the prowl .. We've all seen the film footage.. Think about the process..step by step... They chase,go for the juggler, eat, then leave the carcass...move on to the next .. Idealization,devalue discard, rinse and repeat! Hunter
Dec 12 - 10AM
MandyM
MandyM's picture

My ex is a narcissist, not a

My ex is a narcissist, not a psychopath; many posters here address narcissism hand-in-hand with psychopathy, but there's a difference. All psychopaths are narcissists, and psychopaths have every intention of hurting you. Not all narcissists are psychopaths. My ex is a "plain" narcissist, and while his actions hurt me, I don't believe at all that that was ever his intention, only a by-product that he could've cared less about. All he cared about was what he wanted when he wanted it, and my feelings or the repercussions of his actions on me never even entered the equation. Does he know he's a narcissist? I don't know. I tend to think he doesn't, and that he believes those who go NC on him or don't like him just have issues. He can justify anything to himself; I've borne witness to that.
Dec 12 - 12PM (Reply to #8)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

Mandy M

good post, mine too is a narcissist and not a psychopath, he never e tried or intended to hurt me, it was just all about him and all his wants,needs, whatever he wanted, his armour is up to ever feel anything like true love, he has had 5 failed relationships, i was number 5, he knows something is not right with him, even told me that once in an off handed manner, said 'I am crazy aren't I' but doesn't have a clue as to WHAT is wrong. He treats people as objects, they are all' things' to him, he is the only reality in HIS world.you are so right they justify whatever they want in their own twisted, distorted mindset...................
Dec 12 - 11AM (Reply to #4)
walking_on_sunshine
walking_on_sunshine's picture

N's are too clueless

So much education about narcissism comes from sam vaknin that we come to believe that sam is defining himself as a perfect picture of a narcissist. Sam is actually a psychopath who has an agenda so grandiose it gets lost in its own elusiveness. Narcissists are stunted children who dont get it and psychopaths are sadistic annimals who get it and enjoy it Does yours know hes a narcissist? No, I doubt it...unless hes also a psychopath. Thats my take on it anyway. http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8381.0
Dec 12 - 11AM (Reply to #5)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Some Narcissist know that they are Narc

They are diagnoised and aware of this fact. Does it faze them? No, they don't give it much thought. Who cares they say to themselves and off they go to secure new supply and take a look at themselves in the mirror as you lay crying on the couch over still more confusion and heart ache. All they are thinking is, geeze my hair looks like shit today, better get my ass to the salon so that when I get to OW's house I look hot and you never know who I might run into today who may be good future supply. As for Sam he has many great insights and sometimes the line between narc and psychopath does become quite blurred. All narcs are not demon possessed; they just are not thinking about you and your needs. Think of it this way, you just had a heart to heart converstation with the narc, or a great time having "intimate loving sex" lol, NOT and as he is leaving your home. He is most likely texting OW as he appoaches the elevator. You are not on his mind. This is why it FEELS like they don't give a damn; because they don't. God bless, Goldie
Dec 12 - 1PM (Reply to #7)
bakingfortherapy
bakingfortherapy's picture

Goldie is right....

Mine was diagnosed by our therapist. She said he was such a full blown Narc he needed a 30 day rehab!! But he wasnt demon possessed or a true psychopath....never beat or abused me.. just COMPLETELY SELFISH and SICK! And gosh Goldie, how did you know about him texting the OW right away?? He could have used an excel spreadsheet to keep the dates, texts, lies straight..once he added OW! He really did lunch w/ me, happy hour drinks w/ her, dinner w/ me, overnight at our house...then inverted the order the next day!! They dont care about anyone else but themselves!! WE SHOULDNT CARE ABOUT THEM BECAUSE THEY CERTAINLY DONT CARE ABOUT US!!!
Dec 12 - 12PM (Reply to #6)
walking_on_sunshine
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Goldie, do you really think

Goldie, do you really think if a narc was dx'd that they would actually accept and understand the dx for what it really is - a pathological sickness? I personally think that even if they accepted the label, I cant see how they would even be able to understand what they actually were being labelled with. I suspect they would pawn it off as being misunderstood for their "awesome" trait of inner strength or something.
Dec 12 - 11AM (Reply to #2)
Goldie
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Yes Mandy this is correct

I agree, there are many high functioning narcs who do not rob you blind, scheme to hurt you; they simply are so self centered that you are not in their equation. Psychopath's are a completely different story and breed. Reading and educating yourself is key here to understand this and you are right, many on here have not made the distinction yet. Your description is right on. God bless, Goldie
Dec 21 - 2PM (Reply to #3)
into the light
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Are they a completely

Are they a completely different story and breed? Robert Hare is good to read. Snakes in Suits describes the psychopath at work and in his personal relationships. A psychopath, especially the kind who is successful in life,in corporate life, in the boardroom, working out how to scam whoever for his own personal gain, is often not physically abusive, but is usually sexually abusive, manipulating, charming, etc, etc.