the craziness you don't see when you're in love

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#1 Sep 11 - 4PM

terri

the craziness you don't see when you're in love

I'm not sure why but I remembered something today that I had forgotten about. I thought I'd post it here as an example of some of the really crazy behavior of these Ns that we notice as strange when we're with them but unable to understand it. We are too quick to brush it off and make excuses for it.

In the beginning of our relationship, my exN had taken me to KY where his family is from. Overall, it was a nice visit but looking back, I remember a sort of emotional distance between everyone I met and the exN. They were all "friendly enough" to him although very welcoming to me.

The day we were scheduled to return to Chicago, we planned to meet for lunch with his mother, sister (46), brother (43), and his best friend from high school (who he was still in touch with) and the friend's wife. The exN and I got there first and got a table to seat everyone. He and I sat at one end. The friend arrived next (alone) and sat next to my exN. The brother arrived third and took a seat at the other end of the table. The four of us visited for about 15-20 minutes before everyone else arrived.

Nothing seemed out of the ordinary during lunch and overall, I had a very nice visit with them all. When we left, and got into the car for the drive home, the exN was very angry about something. When I asked him what was wrong, he said he was angry at his brother's attempt to control the situation "as usual". I noticed nothing from his brother except friendliness and normal conversation and said as much.

Then more angrily, the exN said "Didn't you notice how he came and sat at the OTHER end of the table so that Larry had to turn away from me to talk to him? He totally controlled Larry's and everyone else's focus to be ON HIM during the whole lunch!"

At the time I was completely dumbfounded and just sat there trying to process what I had just heard.
I could sit and write a book about all the red flags I totally ignored!!

#2 Sep 12 - 11AM

terri

just remembered another one

Reading one of the postings below made me remember something else. My exN would sometimes blow his cover and show his true self. A couple of years ago, right after he moved to my town, we were preparing to leave for a beach vacation. We both decided it would be a good idea to go to the fake tan salon to get a base tan before going. I had been going to a place for a couple of years already and had gotten to know and like the people who owned it. I recommended to the exN that he try it and he said he would. When I asked him about whether he had gone to get a package deal, he said that the owner (a lovely, kind middle eastern woman) told him that he could not come there anymore - supposedly because he had complained about something nicely and she "took it wrong". Well, I know better. I'm sure he thought he needed to set them straight about something and used the arrogance, entitlement, and harsh words and tone that he usually saved just for me. Of course, he seemed to just brush it off as no big deal. If I had been told to leave anywhere and never come back, I would be completely devastated!! RED FLAG (ya think?)!

Believe in yourself!
Terri

#3 Sep 12 - 9AM

neverlookback

what about the things you DO see?

We dont see the red flags until the end, when its too late, its never too late for us to GET OUT but by then we were already betrayed and much damage was done. Mine told me once how he visited his parents grave who died within the last year and how he was spending time with them and talking to them and missing them, I thought ewww could it be he has some actual feelings for anyone on the face of this earth? I asked him what were you telling them to which he replied: I was telling them how I would like to try F you in the ass. I thought to myself was that supposed to be funny? It only confirmed to me not only his lack of respect and how sick he was but what he felt about his parents, to even say something like that using his dead parents as part of his SICK behavior, what a piece of low life garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!

#4 Sep 12 - 11AM (Reply to #16)

gettinbetter

So Sick

I was doing alot of reading yesterday. These people are sick little puppies. They have all of the necessary components to be sexual predators and serial killers though most arent exceptionally violent ie meaning most dont become psychopathic murders but the thought that they have all of the necessary components is freakin scary.

#5 Sep 12 - 10AM (Reply to #10)

terri

that's pretty bad

But not unfamiliar to me. My exN was always saying things like that to me - like he thought it should be funny. And oddly enough, he joked all the time about doing that particular thing to me - is that a narc thing or just a guy thing? In the beginning, I would chuckle nervously when things like that were said because frankly, I didn't know how to respond. But later on, I would not respond at all. I think I knew inherently after being with him for so long, that his real intention by saying those things was to get a reaction from me. In fact, sometimes he would say or do something that HE KNEW would evoke a particular response (usually anger) and then he would laugh it off and say "I love doing that just to hear your response". I guess like most of his inappropriate behavior, I just got used to it - let it roll off. Looking back, I know now that was how the process of "losing myself" began. I can look back and see how masterful he was at manipulation - started small in the beginning and by the last few years, it was so blatant that he would acknowledge it and laugh as though he was proud of himself. And to be very honest with myself, I started manipulating him in return. I think I just adopted the "let's see how HE likes it" attitude because telling him how it hurt was pointless. Of course, when HE's being manipulated, he explodes in anger. At the end, after I ended the engagement, he accused me of ending the engagement as a manipulative ploy to get him to do what I wanted. What do they do - they turn everything around to you - projection big time. As well as removing blame and responsibility from themselves and putting it on you. I've struggled quite a bit over the last 7 months with questions about my motives, honesty and integrity, and good mental health - but I'm getting past that and coming back into my own confidence again. Thanks in very large part to this board.

Believe in yourself!
Terri

#6 Sep 12 - 1PM (Reply to #14)

Used

shock

i think thatthey say things to shock, but there agenda is to see how you react, and if you let it go, they will push the envelope, until you become practicly desensitised by the talk, i know i did, and unfortunatly it becomes so everyday, that i remember making a crass remark once to a freind, and she was so shocked and said why are you talking like that, thats not you, i cringe now. yuk

#7 Sep 13 - 7PM (Reply to #15)

neverlookback

I HAVE DONE THAT TOO

I said the word P---y once and my friend looked at me in shock and said, what did you just say, you were always the refined one, she laughed but my sense of humor has gotten nasty since I knew him, I will see singles at a bar when having a few drinks with my friends and I will think, oh he just wants to F--k her, and it makes me sick to see men put the move on women just so they can get laid, well hello this has been going on since the beginning of time. I was just bitten by a very very bad psycho who put a deadly move on me and the rest of the world is not like that, the majority that is - I am pretty hard on men and dont engage in much conversation with them and I should not be that way.

#8 Sep 12 - 10AM (Reply to #11)

neverlookback

Terri

I think they LOVE to shock us, part of their sick personality, to throw us off guard. When they project you always know it too because they mix in truth with lies in such a clever way, can we say exploit? ha ha So Glad I will never be apart of his sick world again, of course we were never a match for them because we arent sick like they are even though their aim was to make us go crazy. NC is wonderful in this sense; I will never have to worry what he is doing, worry if its a lie, worry when he will dump me, worry why he doesnt call, figure out why he said this or that, I will never be degraded physically, my body will never be used again, I will never have to look into the eyes of a lost sick soul, and either will you. All the fake charm in the world he has to offer cant undo what he really is. Like I read somewhere they are like a beautiful coral reef and when you get in you suddenly notice you are surrounded by smiling peranas ready to eat you alive.

#9 Sep 12 - 11AM (Reply to #12)

terri

Neverlookback

When they project you always know it too because they mix in truth with lies in such a clever way That is absolutely spot on!! I had never really thought about it before but you're right - that's how they create the confusion in us. The more I am on this board and hear others with such eerily similar experiences, the more amazed and horrified I become.

Believe in yourself!
Terri

#10 Sep 12 - 11AM (Reply to #13)

neverlookback

Here is just ONE example

I was working two jobs, then I started to complain YOU never find time to see me, his response, YOU ARE THE ONE WITH THE TWO JOBS WHO IS BUSY - see truth mixed with lies so as to hide his unavailability to see me, They set us up they use ANY and ALL excuses they possibly can to hide their lies - master Mind F---ers (sorry about the vulgarity) that is why we have to say who needs this shit in our lives. They can take all that charm and shove up their dirty butts none of it meant anything.

#11 Sep 11 - 4PM

wholeagain

Funny you bring this up...

Just this morning I was remembering something similar. My folks have been very active in an arts organization and as a result became friendly with a lot of visiting artists. Great people! They'd invite groups over for dinner and the conversation was wonderful. I'd been to a few of the dinners, and then asked the ex to come with me to one, sure that he'd have a great time as well since he's so social. W-R-O-N-G. Too much competition for attention--he's used to surrounding himself with people who hang on his every word and being the dominant personality, that wasn't going to work here. He got quiet and I could tell a bit sullen. Suddenly he told my mom that he wasn't feeling well and had to leave. We'd come in separate cars so off he went, I stayed and had fun. It was easier without him there. He just could not handle not being the center of the universe, so much so that he had to make a quick exit.

#12 Sep 12 - 1PM (Reply to #8)

neverlookback

wholeagain

They are notorious for this, never wanting to spend time with their GF's or significant, oops should have said insignificant others family functions. Takes them out of the limelight. Can you imagine the lonely holidays just always centered around THEIR family or you can go spend the day with your family by yourself because I am not going because its BORING. Whats wrong, you dont have the audience you want? An audience that needs a bib to drool on in your presence? Guess what you sick little dictator sometimes in life its not always about YOU you are not always the sun that shines on everyones planet as you think you are. In my world you were nothing but a big black cloud and now that you are gone the real sun will shine on me once again. "My folks have been very active in an arts organization and as a result became friendly with a lot of visiting artists. Great people!" Great people much too good for him Wholeagain, that is the real truth and they cant face it so they avoid it and again revert to their lies behind their iron mask, god forbid a family member might discover them as odd and they cant have that now can they? The only thing mine was ever good at was charming and seducing oh and he thought besides his life as a law enforcement officer he was BOB THE BUILDER of the year and investor of the year. He was a dirty cop, a sexual predator, a fraud, swindler, played his parents all his life to get their inheritance (saw right thru that BS) cheater, liar, its no wonder they dont fit in with good, decent people. Besides that its too much work for them to sit there and pretend they are normal. ha ha ha

#13 Sep 12 - 9AM (Reply to #6)

helldweller

wholeagain and others

This was one of the most consistently disspointing and baffling things about our whole time together: he was so gragarious and social among his own few friends as well as among strangers--at parties, etc. that he would take me to. But when I would be so excited to have him at my side at a wedding, a party, a banquet, a dinner party at my place, where I knew there would be such fun people, he was a total dud. If he agreed to go at all--which was rarely--he would not even want to meet anyone, let alone talk to them. He would go off by himself if we were at someone's house, for example, and we would always be the first to go home. The day he met my best friend, it was at a party at her house with all of her friends and family, in her apartment in Marina City along the river in downtown Chicago. A beautiful night, my friend's friends and family are SO much fun; you laugh until you literally wet your pants. We got there and it was packed. He went out on the balcony and was smoking cigarettes and throwing them over the balcony--a penalty with a $1000 fine in my friend's building. That's how she met him: she saw him doing it and ripped him a new one. He asked her, "Which one is your sister, the probation officer?" (My friend's sister was a probation officer at the time and he is a judge.) She pointed her out and he said he was sorry and they came inside. He went up to my friend's sister and said, "If I were to be picked up for trafficking child pornography, is there a chance I would get probabtion?" She had no idea who he was and simply answered his question honestly. I told her, "He's a judge. He's messing with you. Don't talk to him, he's an idiot." We then had to immediately leave, as he said, "These people are freaks. Let's get out of here." At my nephew's wedding, we sat down at the table at the beautiful reception in a gorgeous downtown hotel. My nephew is an attorney and has appeared in front of my narc many times, so I was very proud to be there with him. Everyone was so joyful, happy, laughing and talking, friendly. I said, "Honey did you meet everyone at the table?" I started to introduce them and he said, "Honey, I don't need to meet these people." He DID NOT WANT TO BE INTRODUCED TO THE EIGHT OTHER PEOPLE WE WOULD BE SITTING WITH FOR THE NEXT FIVE HOURS. At my best friend's wedding, he wanted to go home at nine o'clock.

#14 Sep 12 - 9AM (Reply to #7)

wholeagain

Ick

That sounds so familiar! What a bizarre comment about the child porn, gross. It all just depended on whether he could find a way to be alpha. If he could, he'd be the life of the party, funny, facetious humor, etc. If he couldn't, he'd place the blame on others--they weren't listening, they interrupted him, they didn't give him a chance to speak, they were too full of themselves. Project, project, project. It took me a while to introduce new guy to friends for this reason, I was so used to that drama and afraid it would happen again (it didn't--he's relatively quiet, a good listener and has delightful southern manners).

#15 Sep 11 - 10PM (Reply to #2)

almostlydia

I began to realize that the

I began to realize that the exN surrounded himself with groupies mostly, esp his teenage clients. What I most realized lately is how my life with him was full of people I normally wouldn't even consider including in my life. I think it is very telling about who will actually continue to be around these N's. I also know this is one of the reasons he continues to pursue me to this day. I raised his level of people that would deal with him. I made him look decent, acceptable, and trustworthy. All the while he made me look like a fool. almostlydia

almostlydia

#16 Sep 12 - 12PM (Reply to #5)

helldweller

almostlydia

What you said is so true. I used to think, when he started excluding m: Good! I HATE these people! When I think of the soulless Christmases and Thanksgivings and birthdays I spent with his friends and family, it was like torture. My family is so huge and so much fun, AND there are traditions and all the good stuff. We sing around the piano and tell stories and all that stuff. The last Christmas we were actuallly together, my daughters were sitting on the floor in his friend's eleven-bedroom house because there weren't any seats for the children, only the adults. Only four people were sitting at the table out of the forty that were there: my narc's brother's girlfriend, a couple that had never been there before, and myself. No one said Grac or made a toast, and most people were playing video games or hanging out in the kitchen. The narc was outside the whole dinner, smoking and telling everyone about his heroic rescue of his foster child. Last Christmas, when he left us home, a big part of me thought: "Gee, I'm actually glad I'm not there." The only thing that I hated was that people saw him without me. I kept picturing him telling people we broke up, hitting on other women, and just not wanting me there. That's what hurt. The whole lot of them can go to hell and bore everyone to death. He also used to hang out with this contractor who was a Polish immigrant. He and the narc used to go out for sushi and bring wine to drink--so gay, right? I was NOT invited, ever. I think he might have been his connection for coke or whatever, or maybe hookers, as they always talked about the hookers on Craigslist. Hi one other male friend was a totally boring, sex crazed judge who I later found out lied several times on the judge's exam because he was a deadbeat dad and also defaulted on his student loans and owed the IRS. He has three houses and sent his only child to live with his parents because he "couldn't handle it."

#17 Sep 12 - 10AM (Reply to #4)

Nicole96

Arg!

This is so true. My n surrounds himself with groupies, people who blindly follow. That usually included younger individuals. For awhile he was hanging out with much younger kids who acted like little children (even way younger than their age) i just couldn't do it... he kind of grew out of that and found subordinates at work to feed his NS. But now the new girl he is with barely turned 22, then her mental age is still way younger. (I'm almost 29, he is 28) So ufnair and frustrating.

#18 Sep 11 - 10PM (Reply to #3)

wholeagain

Amen

to everything you said AlmostLydia. I can entirely relate.

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