I might say they are emotionally tumultuous, confused, or emotionally stunted, as a result of being RAISED by an emotionally disturbed man. How's that? :o)
We're all hurt and angry. It's understandable, seeing the children of your a-hole ex as an extension of him and his crappiness. But their unfortunate position doesn't make them weird or bad or jerks. It makes them victims, Like Us. Victims who will maybe make it out unscathed, maybe not. But in my opinion, what good comes from energy spent putting down kids. Pray for them instead...that they don't turn out to be broken and bitter.
I remember after finding out that the ex-Psych prof had fathered kids with his girlfriend, one of my friends said, "Those poor kids, having a mentally sick teacher as a father." It wasn't their fault. It's easier for an adult to escape an N/P than a child. Children are dependent on their parents... and that's why it's so tragic when Ns/Ps loose their disorder on their kids.
The ex-P doesn't even acknowledge his kids. All I saw was how his parents were raising his kids... ZERO mention of the ex-P and his wife. It was as if those kids had been orphaned. In an emotional/spiritual way, the children of Ns/Ps are orphans because their parents emotionally abandon them.
I hope the ex-P's kids turn out better than him. I pray that they overcome their upbringing, and that they bring more light to the world.
No one has put down any kids in this thead!
Personally, I have so much compassion for his kids. They were in my life for 5 yrs.
I can pray all I want, but that won't change their fate. They are already broken and bitter at the ages of 13 and 16.
They have no one on their side. Even their mother is an unstable woman.
The best thing that can happen to them is their parents (my ex and his ex wife) have a huge universal intervention, but they will end up like the parents, just like my ex ended up like his parents.
At 13 my mom met my stepdad. My world came crumbling down. By 16, I'd been emotionally and physically violated beyond belief. I was smoking pot (at the very least) almost every day to escape. By 18 I was working in a strip club and hooked on Vicodin. By age 23, I was addicted to oxycontin, cocaine, and controlling men who tried to manipulate me. By 27, I was an alcoholic too. At 28 I was drinking an entire bottle of vodka every night and definitely suicidal. At 29 I was so wasted one night that I tried to shoot myself in the head but only succeeded in blowing off my right index finger and half of my left palm. I woke up in a mental hospital.
Fast forward one year... I was engaged to an amazing guy, had quit the alcohol and drugs entirely, had gotten a lot of counseling for the pain. Somehow (can you believe it?) I was still a happy person. Still optimistic. Really wanting to move forward. Hoping to live and love life. The N happened onto my path and things shifted once again, but here I am once again too. Struggling at times, sure. But alive. And okay. And making it. And pretty happy. I'm strong. Some of life's trials, for some individuals, can make us stronger, stronger, stronger. It all depends on what you've got inside of you.
I'm not going for shock value, not trying to put anyone down or point anyone out, I just think that the human spirit is precious, often limitless, never underestimate it. I refuse to believe my road points straight to my becoming a Narc and my life emotionally done for, ruined. I have the same optimism for anyone else these people have helped damage too- I'm just surprised I guess because I kinda thought that was the whole point.
The thread has taken a couple of different angles so I'm not trying to pidgeonhole here, but it surprises me to hear at all of children talked about as if they're doomed & now on some road to permanent dysfunction. (Like wow...wouldya look at that, his kids are all fucked up too, tsk tsk.) While we sit on a Support Forum, as Victims Too, giving each other Support and Hope. Us and them. Them and us. Well, some of us are thems too. And at the end of the day, we're ALL victims and no good comes from making any kind of victim seem like some dead-end person waiting to happen. To me it feels like hypocrisy, projection, and passive/aggressive demeaning bullshit. They're kids. They may be okay, they may not. Just like you. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm just taking this way too personally or maybe I'm just failing to understand why (here of all places) you'd take such a position on where some kids that Got Hurt and badly (just like You) will END UP.
Remember that one of the main characteristics of NPD and pathology is the inability to learn and sustain change.
Just because one (or both) parents have a disorder doesn't mean the child will.
It just may be tougher for the kids to deal with without support & understanding.
My mom's father was an alcoholic. She has a glass of wine once, maybe twice a week. She said she coped with her father by reading in her room.
I would guess that the respondents here didn't mean the kids were "doomed"--just that they (the respondents)felt powerless in helping the kids.
I am divorced from my xhN & we have a daughter. I see his manipulation of her ALL the time. Without "naming names", I teach her about bullies, how to state her thoughts and how to compromise. I lead by example.
This way she can see the difference...at 7 yrs of age.
Look how stong you are too
I guess I read something personal into this thread
...I just think it's rather fucked up to be scrutinizing any victims of these people. Why? We're supporting EACH OTHER for that very thing here. For being victimized yet people who can still be strong and get back to good. Why would we then turn around like a bunch of harpies and talk about kids headed down a path to Narchood and Ending Up Like Him, talking about women he's cheated around with as fat and gross and in Some Other Category. Some of us ARE these people ffs. Go Freedom of Speech, but due to the sensitive nature of this forum- I'd put a little more thought into my topics. Personally.
Sorry ladies, didn't mean to put anyone off with my opinion.
I want to say that I am touched and in awe by your experiences, your strength, your ability to still remain "unjaded" and your courage to speak up for what you believe is right. From what I've read, you definately must have some trauma issues. My past pales in comparison...but I have a very close friend who has had some nightmares herself and I remain in such awe of her and the fact that she hasn't been stuck in the rabbithole for life although insurmountable odds were stacked against her. Odds that I can't even imagine surviving myself and I like to "whine" about my bad childhood and your past seriously makes my "issues" - which did earn me a C-ptsd diagnosis sound like a whine.
Equally, I understand that in the whole "healing" recovery process there is alot of venting that takes place...I read one of my rants from a few months back...I think my words were: I could run him over then switch reverse and do it again...I was able to laugh the other night because I am so past it...but emotions are a very difficult thing to tame when under extreme stress and pain.
It is a difficult spot because as a "support" forum we encourage people to get it out and express themselves, and we strive to be non-judgmental no matter how insane some of the rantings are *and I'm not saying they're insane but in extreme anguish and pain we do blurt out some nasty things that aren't REGULAR or CHARATERISTIC of us under NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES... AND I WILL SAY...MY RANTS WERE INSANE AND I WILL WEAR THE TEE SHIRT AND SIGN THE NOTARIZATION PAPERS...I'M NOT JUDGING ANYONE HERE...for some there is a TEMPORARY insanity caused by the trauma...but equally, sometimes the rantings "trigger" others and so it is a delicate balance trying to keep everyone patched up and in the right frame of mind.
I am new to moderating and just learning the ropes - but I did feel the need to say something about this topic and remind everyone that we may disagree on certain issues...but in the spirit of supporting one another and patching eachother up that we be sensitive to certain things that may "trigger" others...pain is universal and WE ARE ALL in pain...and it is essential that when we sense someone reacting, being triggered or feeling very passionate about something - that we don't always have to keep hammering away to make our point...sometimes we can agree to disagree and let the tension dissapate. I learned that lesson too early in my recovery...and in the past without realizing it...I was guilty of trying to hammer a point without realizing I was inadvertently hurting someone although I had the best intentions.
Venus...if you need to talk...you can pvt message me...I'll do the best I can...I have to be honest...even with my friend...all I can do is listen...I haven't been in those types of situations...I can't give advice or tell you the best way to cope in that situation...you lived it...but I can listen and I think I'm pretty good with getting to see the jar half full? With my friend, I have had to learn that she needs to talk and I need to shut up because there isn't much I can tell her or advise her...what could I tell her really..."Don't think about it?" "It's over it's in the past?" I can't tell her that...you and I both know why...but I can offer you support and an ear and if it's any re-assurance...my Narc sat there and told me he was a crack addict 18 years ago and I didn't bat an eyelash...my father was a heroin addict turned alcoholic and there's some other stuff wrapped up in there too so I'm not totally Pollyanna...but somehow...I blocked a lot of things and so there's residue but I was able to climb out too...
It takes a ton of strength, you demonstrate such insight...maybe back off this thread not because your points lack validity...but because I am concerned about a trigger...it's just a suggestion out of concern for you...
Hugs!
The ex-Psych professor told me over 4 years how much he HATED children-it's like he didn't even see them as NS. He quoted a character from "War and Peace" who thinks that babies are disgusting (said fictional character is the father of several children&his wife is pregnant), and said he'd avoid the nursery--something that Leo Tolstoy did. Leo Tolstoy romanticized pregnancy&nursing (he emotionally abused Sofia when she was unable to nurse&it got her infected with mastitis), yet he'd find ways to avoid her when she was pregnant or had given birth--when she was pregnant with her last child, Leo threatened to go to America. He even packed his bags. In the end, MOST of Leo's children wouldn't acknowledge him when he was dying;only his daughter, Alexandra, was at his side. He had alienated&estranged the rest. In Leo's diaries, his children are practically non-existent, despite the fact he fathered so many. His wife had to act as mother AND father. She was a married single mother.
The ex-P would say he'd be disappointed if I had his kids. Well, I haven't. I did it... for the sake of the kids. I like kids too much to have had kids with a man who hasn't left his first childhood. An emotionally disturbed man leads to an upbringing that would be a challenge to overcome.
Hm
Victims, not sidekicks
Victims of bad parenting
No one has put down any kids
End Up
Well...
Dear Venus...
Re:
whoops
I guess I read something personal into this thread
Venus...
That's a better way of putting it