The children of Narcs

I realized one thing, children of narcs either become empaths, or narcs themselves. And it is something that I always kept in mind, my heart wanted to be with him, having family, but then I knew what I would my children put through if I ever get one. They divorced when I was 15, since then I barely had contact with him, he only contacted me, when he wanted something from me, he never cared about me or my life. He is contact with my other 3 sisters, cause there is more to get from them. I am just a burden for him, and he would have to take parental obligations for me, what is not necessary for the other sisters anymore. The real evil truth about them, you will see it really only as a child of them. Parners get more attention from them, get tricked in the love game. But children, only a burden. Or a great adulation supply as long as they dont have their own mind. He played the same tactics with me like my narc when I was a child, abuse, emotionally and verbal, and physical, and then sweet talk again without any apology of course, since I "deserved" it. Once he sent me a aplogy letter, where he aplogized for everything he has done to us. But guess what, only words, nothing changed, he only wanted to get rid of his shame. No soul in them

My father is a narcissist and my mother was his victim for 15 years. Luckily she left him when I was 11 and I have hardly seen him since that. (Actually I don't think we´ve had any contact for about ten years now. He doesn't want to, and I still don't know why.) Being afraid at home everyday as a child does something to your self-esteem. You feel that everything you are and stand for is somewhat wrong. And it wasn't until last year that I finally got his manipulative voice, and all of his hate towards us, out of my head. (after three years in therapy (I am 28 years old now)). But I also think that watching my mother being psychologically abused did just as much harm, as his anger towards me and my two sisters. Having a mother in pain, and always being humiliated made things much worse. I am just very grateful she moved from him at the time she did. (I remember she spent one year in bed after their final breakup and we had no money. He refused to help. That was when I got my first paying job). Today she is a very strong woman, with a brilliant job (he wouldn't let her work), and a wonderful role-model. BUT- while she was with him our identification as females was nothing to strive for. And still, I am overly concerned about her well being. (!!!) We're three girls, doing fine in our lives, none of us have gotten into drugs or anything. We're overly sensitive in many ways, but I think everyone that knows about our past (or knew my father) are surprised of how well we've managed. And we are very lucky to have each other. I suspect the bond between us grew even stronger because of my very, very sick and lonely father. He is also on Facebook, we are not friends. I even changed my surname last year to get him out of my life. I think blocking a crazy father on FB can be a healthy step on the way to get control over your own life.

I did not mean to imply that narcs breed narcs. I just am reporting what I see in my admittedly worse-than-average narc: he is TRYING to turn his foster child into himself. He is TEACHING him overtly to not trust women, to not want anyone in the house, to not have close friends, to not tell anyone his feelings, to pretend relationships didn't exist. This is my own experience, and I am the first one to say that I don't know what this litle boy is going to do when he gets older: be a good little narc, rebel against his "father," or somewhere in between. I imagine he will be f*cked up, just like you were and just like I was, and will maybe make it out alive. And yes, that's what I want to do: prevent him from having to go through the hell.

I have to go, but I just wanted to say this. I think that I've spent so much time trying to convince myself that I am NOT like my parents, that hearing children of PD's being described as "disturbed" feels like a huge slap in the face. In fact, I remember, as a child, sitting around with my cousins, wondering aloud to ourselves which one of us would develop *insert mental disorder here,* and so on. That was definitely within the realm of possibility, based upon what we grew up in and around. It strikes a cord. I don't think it was intentional, at all. We're not here to bash each other. Logically, I know that, but it does feel triggering. That's a good way of describing it. It's very touchy subject matter to begin with, and then throw kids into the mix, and you've got the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. I immediately feel the urge to mother, to go on the defensive, and to protect. I believe, even as teenagers, these kids are not fully developed, and still have a theoretical chance to beat the odds. *They're going to need other people to model their behavior after. They're going to need understanding, and firm boundaries, like any child.* This is the important part. If nobody points out to these kids that there's another way of living, how else will they know? They only know what they were told, what they were lead, falsely, to believe. At least, I did. It wasn't until I got OUT of that little fish bowl, that I realized it wasn't normal, preferable, nor right. I just got lucky. I got out. I had/have stable people in my life now. A calmer influence. This is 2011, nobody's born with a label that says "you're going to be this," or "you're going to be that." People can, and do, change their lot in life. They're the success stories we all admire, and try to take little bits and pieces of direction from. Anyway, I'll just count these feelings that sit so close to the surface, as reassurance that no matter what is pondered here by others, that I do love, do care, and do have the ability to reason these things out for myself. Besides, I doubt that truly disturbed people actually contemplate whether or not they are disturbed at all. So, maybe it's a good mini-lesson, not to take things personally. I can definitely relate to portions of all, or most, of the stories here. That alone, is a teeny bit healing, in and of, itself. Thanks girls. I appreciate this board, and being here. Everyday I feel better and better. Ladies, this heart is for you:

Will the kids end up as Narcs? I think a reasonable answer is possibly however they could just turn out to be normal well adjusted people. I think its reasonable to assume that they would be more predisposed to being Narcs but I think they could also be equally as predisposed to being codependents as well which will have them seeking out relationships that mimic this dynamic with their Pdi parent. I dont think that spitting out food is indicative of issues per se maybe more indicative of poor parenting and a lack of manners but possibly together with other behaviors could indicate emotional and behavioral problems. Who knows time will tell. I have read alot recently on the fact that many researchers believe that there are both a genetic and environmental factors linked with PDI's. Many think that while some people may be genetically predisposed to having a PDI dont ever develop it becuase the environmental factors werent there to ignite it. Many times its the combination of the genetic and the evironmental together that ignite the Narcissism. I am a raging codependent. I believe I was predisposed to it but I didnt become a raging codependent until I became involved with the Narc round 1 as a young woman in my early twenties. I can actually tell you that I can tie my raging codependency to that time frame and I havent been the same since. Will the kids become Narcs? not necessarily but they are probably many times more at risk that those raised by emotionally balanced parents.

My father is a narc, I'm sure of it. Me and my sister grew up in a house where we were constantly told off if we did anything wrong. We very quickly learned not to do ANYTHING wrong. People thought we were the nicest kids you would ever meet. At home we couldn't do anything right. My mother would try to defend us as best she could and I'm grateful because without her we wouldn't know right from wrong. I think she's the only reason we turned out fairly normal. Once we learned to behave like angels, he changed his tactics. Now we were told off if there was the POTENTIAL for us to do something wrong, didn't matter if we did it or not. The tellings-off were basically emotional abuse. Given half a chance he would humiliate us if he could. Regularly I would find myself realising I felt nothing but anger because I knew in my heart I was being treated unfairly. I tried every tactic I could. Tried to obey as unfeelingly as possible, tried fighting fire with fire, tried acting out. Nothing ever worked. By the time we left school he had all but destroyed our self-confidence and self-esteem. It was quite fascinating watching my sister because she was older than me and went through this process ahead of me, but what happened next was that we left home for university, and our self-confidence skyrocketed. Away from his malignant influence we slowly came to terms with realising that we could cope perfectly well out in the world on our own two feet. It still took us both somewhere in the region of 15 years to more fully accept that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with us though. The scars will no doubt be with us both forever, and seeing him slowly pull my mother down with him, since she's now in the house alone with him, is not pleasant. It's quite strange to try and see things from others' perspectives. Most people meet me initially get the following impression: Intelligent, handsome, well-built guy, geeky but funny, confident, "sorted" and happy. After a short while they revise that and start realising how shy I really am, and if they really get to know me well they realise that underneath there is less confidence than they first thought. They still generally have a better opinion of me than I have of myself though, because for years I've thought of myself as: Short, ugly and boring. It's taken a lot of effort to shake that off.

My exN son could do no wrong. The kid would be cruel and physically abusive to my son who is 5 yrs older. My son knew better and would not hit back. But, he would deny him to play with his toys. His son also terrorized his siblings at his primary home. He would be in time-out a lot! Not a few times a week, a few times a day. He would dig his nails into his siblings arms, say mean things to them and to his stepfather. He has this blank stare in his eyes and a fake smile. I was told by the exN family that when this kid was born, no reaction to any baby talk or tickling. You know how you talk to a baby and they coo back. NOTHING! Not a grin, not a smile, not a giggle, not a coo! When the kid was over 1 is when they were able to tickle and get a response. The exN kid also would steal my sons toys and when I told his father, he blamed my son for not sharing. My son was sick of getting in trouble and his son not. My exn would say in a calm, sweet voice when he was scolding him, "Now [kids name] that is not how we talk to people. apologize." kid apologizes and out of his fathers ear shot and sight, but not mine, he would say in a mean voice to my son, "I hate you." Another time i was talking to the kid on our long drive to Spokane and when i asked a question, he didn't answer. His father asked him to reply and he said, "all i hear is blah blah blah." The kid did not get scolded, punished or anything! That is when I knew this kid will treat every woman this way. He is being taught it is ok to dismiss someone with no consequences. the kid also knew if he kept saying, "but daddy" enough times, his father would cave. I timed it one time, 10 minutes and he got to watch a PG-13 movie and he was 6. But, the exN bitched that my son, who was 11, bought it and was watching it. So, it made it ok then for his son to. The rules do not apply to them!

I'm under a mountain of work but I HAD to comment on this one because so much of the things you guys described I can totally identify with. As some of you know, my narc--at 52 years old--decided he wanted a child, so instead of having one with me, his girlfriend of three years, he got a four year old foster child. He and the child live in a six bedroom house (the one he and my daughters and I were supposed to move into, yeah right) by themselves, and the narc's brother lives next door. They are this bizarre little family. There are three brothers in the family. No wives, no girlfriends, no children among the three of them, two judges and one hugely successful attorney, 54, 57 and 48 years old. So it's the narc and his little brother, two single, roughly fifty-year-old men, and a six year old. The child is not allowed to play outside, is not allowed to have friends over. In fact, no one is ever allowed over. They spend all their social time with fifty and sixy year old male politicians and the narc's women "friends." The little boy, who was so loving and sweet and friendly when he came two and a half years ago has turned into a blank, zombie like robot. He has no expression on his face, no longer even answers to people for the most part. When I say hi to him he pretends he doesn't hear me because that's what the narc taught him to do. The last time I watched him he could not sit still, could not even sit DOWN for more than ten seconds. He has absolutely turned into the narc. There is nothing but nothing I can do about it and it is enraging, maddening, horrifying, frustrating beyond measure, a total nightmare. This little boy has a brother who is now three years old who was adopted at birth because his mother gave him up at the hospital. The adoptive couple said they wanted to take in his brother, too, when they found out he had gone to foster care, but the narc said, "No. He's mine." This is a mother and a father--a pediatrician and a teacher--who live in a beautiful home with the foster child's own brother, but the freaking narc wouldn't let him live there, and because he's a judge social services didn't force the issue because of the "priviledges" the child would get with the narc. OMG. I will never forget the stupid narc's neighbor's words when the child came: "He'll never want for anything." Yeah, righ. Except a soul. A mother. Siblings. A home. Bedtime before midnight. A healthy understanding of what love is, what women are, what life has to offer. Faith. Family. Trust. Honestly. Security.

I suspect that they frequently do have emotional problems (in one form or another). How could they not? Look at what at least one of their parents are (disordered). In my case, xnh sounds very similar to your xn. He talks endlessly about his mommy, and when he goes on vacations, it is ONLY to her house or to Disney World with her. Like yours, xnh is 48 years old. He has ONE friend (which is a mutual friend with me) that he does things with occasionally. He does have tons of acquaintances (potential NS victims). However, mostly he just hangs out with his two daughters (as much as they'll let him), and talks on the phone with his mommy. Xnh's children are now aged 21 and 18. They both have problems in different ways. I think this is because of xnh. They've basically had to raise themselves because xnh was way too self-absorbed to actually be a parent to them. Their mother is also very emotionally damaged, and wasn't capable of parenting them either. Both parents always seemed to want to be their kid's buddies instead of their parents. They wanted to take them out to "wow" them whenever it suited THEIR needs, and play like they're the hero. Xnh's youngest one, I'm hoping will be alright in the long run. She's a very caring, loving person. She has always been very self-contained and just made her own way. At least she has always gotten good grades in school, she's working to support herself, and is figuring out her own funding to go to college this fall after she graduates from high school (God knows that xnh was way too busy spending money on himself to save anything for her education). Like you, I still remain in contact with her both of FB and when I see her around town. The oldest daughter, on the other hand, is a complete screwed up mess. She's not even remotely "normal". She is nothing short of a sociopath (right down to my catching her torturing both my dogs and her sister). Xnh has repeatedly turned a blind eye on her behavior for years, and he enables her antics on a regular basis. She's been totally out of control for as long as I've known her (she was 2 years old when I met xnh, and 4 when I started dating him). Xnh's oldest daughter has been on drugs for several years now (and in jail for felony drug possession). She's been fired 7 times, and will NOT work to support herself. She currently 8 months pregnant by her gang member boyfriend that's in jail for beating her up, and living on welfare with xnh. Because she's a P, I fully expect to hear that she's doing drugs in xnh's house, and neglecting/abusing that poor baby. I'm sure, xnh will continue to turn a blind eye on the whole mess, and "pretend" that everything is just wonderful. That's what he's always done. He so obviously favors this old daughter that I've always found it revolting. The youngest one has always been pretty much just kicked to the curb in favor of her sister by both of her parents. It seems to me that a lifetime of this treatment simply must have a profound effect on xnh's youngest daughter (self-contained or not). I'm sure that she's bearing emotional scars of her own. So yes, I'd have to say that narcs often have emotionally damaged kids. Narcs are very damaging for adults to be in a relationship with. A child is totally at their mercy. They're defenseless from the beginning from someone as harmful as a narc.

Both my father and step-father (especially the latter, more extreme behavior & more abusive) were narcissists. I'm a sensitive person, but very caring, loving, warm, empathic. As a survivor of a lot of abuse and trauma (divorce, sexual abuse from stepdad, emotional neglect from mother and father during, experience with ex-N), I'd say I have my issues. Who doesn't. But I don't consider myself mentally "disturbed" and I think it's unfair to make such a sweeping generalization. There are just too many variables to first consider. I find this kind of depressing actually. They're kids. Do they need a dead-end label? Unless maybe you're wanting to try and help his children? I guess I find this a little insensitive. Maybe it's the time of the month. =/ Or maybe I find it depressing because I know how much damage was done with me. And sometimes actually do wonder if I'll ever be free from the chains I put on myself as a result.

My narcs son is very smart but he is told he is special. So he walks around and says he's special. I feel bad for him because I see him turning into his dad. The child's mom just doesn't get it.

My Nracs mother is a Narc... If you sleep with dogs that have flees.... She is also his BF... Besides his dog! Idealk

Not sure if it was borderline/sociopath/or narcissist herself but I think lots of his behavior is a combo of learned and genetic from her.

My mother's parents were BOTH Narcs. She's struggled with the feeling of being unwanted... and I think her intense anger when I fell for the ex-Psych professor resulted from being triggered. Being raised by Narcs traumatized her, and now she's having to deal with the fact that her Narc mother is living in the same town as her, and is suffering from Alzheimer's. When I went to see my nephew, my mother asked me if I was disappointed-a very odd question. How could I be disappointed by a baby? That I found mind-boggling. But then I remembered how the ex-P said he would've been disappointed in me if I had his children (he said he was disappointed when I declared my love to him) "They only hung out with their grandparents... He is 48 years old and is always with his parents"-This is a very eerie parallel. The ex-P is 47 or 48. The last time I heard (this would mean his kids are now 10)... his girlfriend had given birth to twins, and HIS parents were raising them. The last I heard, he was always with his father. Yes, the children of Narcs are often emotionally disturbed. The situation is exacerbated if BOTH parents are Narcs.