Are these typical cycles of rejected narcissists?

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#1 May 10 - 9PM

malloryforest

Are these typical cycles of rejected narcissists?

Ex H has been really putting on the show since I have set up boundaries. Mother's day flowers, texts, phone calls, etc. I have ignored most of them, and the one's that I have read, I have not responded to. Now, he misses me, he is terribley alone, I am the best mom, and now we are moving into suicidal threats. He is so depressed he wants to kill himself, he can't believe how much he misses the kids, etc. He also thinks that maybe he should find a therapist because he is dealing with my anger issues!

Is this a typical pattern in letting go? Once they feel you genuinely moving away, do they put on the love show, then play suicidal, then blame you? Have any of you witnessed this cycle?

For a second, I felt empathy and then I quickly remembered that this was his wonderful creation. Its not like I asked him to cheat on his wife and kids. It is not like I didn't give him more than a half dozen chances to work through these issues. With each opportuinity he just flaunted her in my face and acted so smug. I remember once asking him how he could look at himself in the mirror. He pulled me into the bathroom, and smugly looked at himself in the mirror, saying, i think I am great, pretending to comb his hair back. I left the bathroom and threw up.

Today I got a text that said he misses me so damn much. I deleted and didn't respond. I felt like saying, honestly, I don't care. At the moment, I can say I feel numb. It is like any remote feelings I had for him are gone. I just see him as sadly pathetic.

#2 May 16 - 9AM

Carolyn

He wants you back in his

He wants you back in his control and then will do the same bad things over and over. To him it is a game and he is the gamemaster. You are just a puppet. the attention is a real grabber for anyone so he just plays Mr. Love and then if you fall back in the trap he turns into King Rat. enjoy the flowers and gifts and remember the story of the Trojan Horse.

#3 May 12 - 6AM

Barbara (not verified)

for mallory

"The salesman that he is, he will re-label her feelings, put a spin on the situation that benefits him, and throw her words back at her. While he might not emotionally understand or empathize with her words, he can still distort and recycle them into something else. As she brings up the need to be heard or tries harder to explain her emotions, the psychopath washes her communication through one of the dichotomies or his own â€œwounded-ness.â€ Looking for a trap door that allows him to stop the dialogue about something he canâ€™t fake understanding, he will use anything to dismiss the conversation. Additionally, many psychopaths are sadistic. Her pain is his pleasure, or maybe even erotic to him. Watching her in pain about the inability to communicate with him is no doubt pleasurable to him. What he may truly be able to understand, he may pretend otherwise, to keep the communication problems ongoing, and keep her upset. - Sandra Brown, WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#4 Jan 28 - 3PM (Reply to #38)

4joys4

to keep her upset

Boy, can I relate to this. Every communication I had to have with the narc in the beginning of the end was so muddled. Finally, I got it. He just wanted me upset. He wanted me to question his babble and nonsensical language. My brain would try so hard to unravel the mess, while he just carried on with a smirk on his face. I remember, for awhile, I got great pleasure in responding to his garbage with gobbledygook of my own. It was fun! But then no contact because they turn the game.

#5 Jan 28 - 8PM (Reply to #39)

Barbara (not verified)

confusion technique

this is also an NLP, mind control thing: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2007/01/one-technique-used-by-abusers-sensibly.html ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#6 May 12 - 12AM

Barbara (not verified)

mallory

Oh goody - not just a Narc but a FOOL. LOL Have your attorney write him a REGISTERED LETTER telling him never to text, email or IM you anything but logistics for visitation. EVERYTHING else must go thru the attorney. EVERYTHING. TELL YOUR ATTORNEY that you will NOT speak directly to him ever again. And have them PUT IT IN WRITING THAT THEY WORK FOR YOU ALONE! I don't care what your attorney tries to feed you - your STBX IS A PATHOLOGICAL. Demand the attorney write him a cease & desist and he has to deal with them now. PERIOD!!! And show your attorney the pics, etc. Completely inappropriate prior to court. What's he trying to prove? (I mean we KNOW he's just a complete a**HOLE!!) but that's what to say to your attorney. That it's INAPPROPRIATE AND MUST STOP. His wake up call just arrived. Tell him to BEND OVER. Ah! I wish I could be a fly on the wall. Judges eat idiots like him for breakfast. Just make NO EYE CONTACT WITH HIM Mallory and tell your attorney you WILL NOT SPEAK DIRECTLY TO HIM. Don't react. Be professional & polite. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#7 May 11 - 3PM

Barbara (not verified)

court with the Narc

Try to act like a statue. Don't look at him. NO REACTION. He & his lawyer will do & say all sorts of things to get to your defend yourself and over react so they can say "see - see how she is" Nothing. Nada. STICK to the facts. Be professional. Address the judge as 'Your Honor' and make NO EYE CONTACT WITH THE N. None. Zero. Look above him. Around him. NADA!! I have posted this here before but I will post it again. Print it out and put it somewhere you can read it every day before you go to court: The following is from an attorney who learned about Narcissism prior to his divorce and was thereby able to have his attorney provoke the Narcissist to totally lose it on the stand: I am an attorney and have recently gone through and finished a divorce with my ex-Narcissist spouse. I also had my deposition taken (I have taken many myself. I hereby offer you some gratuitous legal and strategic advice which should be no means conflict with whatever your attorney tells you. Not knowing which state you live in, it is impossible for me to offer any kind of specific legal advice, and it would be improper for me to do so anyway. I scored a perfect "100" in my deposition taken by my Narcissist-ex and lawyer. I adhered to the following rules: 1. Never look at the Narcissist. The lack of attention will be very upsetting to the Narcissist. It is a kind of narcissistic injury. Do not acknowledge their existence. 2. Whether their lawyer believes their BS is irrelevant. There is an old reworked saying - "Hell hath no fury like the lawyer of a Narcissist scorned". The lawyer may try to rattle you or make you uncomfortable. Ignore such attempts. Remain calm, cool and professional and answer all questions honestly and slowly. Give your lawyer time to object before you answer. 3. Most Important!! ALWAYS tell the truth even if you think an answer to a question will make you look foolish, silly, or anything else. Do not attempt to explain your answers to make them sound better. Keep your answers brief and to the point. Do not ramble or tell stories. Regarding Depositions: Just remember that the purpose of a deposition is not to change anyone's mind. The purpose of a deposition is to "freeze" your testimony in writing so that any change or departure at trial can be used to hang you. That is why it is so important to tell the simple truth and not to embellish. Do not try to prove yourself right or Narcissist wrong. Just remember - if you lie, you die! The time and place to deal with the Narcissist is in the courtroom. Let your lawyer do his job. Family law judges are disgustingly used to the lying and emotionality that goes along with divorces. You must at all costs wear the white gloves and do nothing to indicate to the judge that you are sneaky or vengeful. To summarize the most important advice: The real trick to beating a Narcissist in Court is twofold in nature. FIRST: To catch them in a lie when they are on the stand is sublime. But, you must have ABSOLUTE, UNCONTROVERTIBLE proof of the lie, proof that is admissible in court by rules of evidence or by unassailable testimony. When confronted with the impeaching evidence, a Narcissist will react with fury, more lying (which will be visible to everyone except the Narcissist) and will in general actively discredit themselves. SECOND: The second part of the process is more subtle. If possible, your counsel should structure the cross-examination of the Narcissist to bring out and allow the Narcissist to magnify his or her grandiose self. It is often enough just to let the Narcissist be himself or herself. Emotionally-healthy individuals can generally see through the false self and discern the true motives of the Narcissist. Remember, though, at the end of the day, family law courts are generally not interested in the emotional aspects of your divorce. Most states are "no fault" divorce states, and even though judges are people and have emotions, generally they are interested in numbers and custody issues. Judges do tend to ignore all the drama, but if you can get a Narcissist to lie under oath and properly expose them, this will have a bearing on the witness' credibility with the judge. That is why it SO important for us to tell the truth at all times no matter how foolish we may think we look AND for us to conduct ourselves in a Calm, Rational and Dignified manner. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#8 May 11 - 2PM

Barbara (not verified)

my strategy

IMHO Forward it ALL to his girlfriend - say "I got these 3 texts from X today. Is something wrong?" LOL. Actually I would just save them, date & time - show to your attorney. He's so N it's pathetic. Like a 5 year having a tantrum... BOO HOOO - playing on your compassion. Next thing, I bet he'll tell you how cold, cruel and heartless you are. Typical. Do NOT respond to him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#9 May 11 - 6AM

Barbara (not verified)

when they threaten suicide

Finally, the narcissist threatens with suicide and self mutilation. The narcissist will ...[do anything to] control your time. ...This is what psychologists call transference; the narcissist will do anything to make you feel inadequate, and the narcissist will always try to be superior to you using any means to maintain this superiority. - Dr. Ludger Hoffman-Engl Mallory I heard this before myself: I am going to eat a gun; I feel so bad. - Psycho-Boy, March 2004 Guess what? Psycho-Boy's still here. VERY much alive. He's still smearing me. His wife is helping him. etc etc. Why should someone so wonderful & special off himself? LOL My STRONG advice? Next time he tells you he's going to 'commit suicide'? CALL THE POLICE NEAR HIM!! Seriously!! Tell them, "I just got an email from my stbx and he's threatening to committ suicide. I will print out a copy for you to see. Could you please go check on him?" Yes CALL THE POLICE! This is what you are supposed to do. I guarantee he will STOP DOING THAT B.S. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#10 May 11 - 2PM (Reply to #31)

Fawn

Suicide

Mine told me a few months ago "When I knew that we couldn't work it out I was SUICIDAL!" He said it like it was the most shocking, horrible, outrageous statement ever, and that I should have known that he was suicidal. He didn't tell me until after the fact. He is so narcissistic that he probably thought that I knew he was suicidal telepathically. He has always been VERY dramatic and says things like, "I think I'm having a nervous breakdown." Maybe he watches too many movies from the 1950's, I don't know. I think that he is just so shocked whenever he feels anything. It takes something pretty extreme for him to feel anything at all, because there is nothing inside! No core, no depth, nothing. It is so hard to accept that I spent so many years thinking that this person was completely in love with me, but the mirroring explanation helps me understand. As long as I was reflecting love and warmth and acceptance, that is what I would get from him. When I became occupied with life and taking care of our children and other people, he wasn't getting enough attention and went looking elsewhere. I was still telling him I loved him until about 3 months ago, so that is what I was hearing back. Now I'm not hearing much of anything, which is a relief. He hasn't changed, he just isn't getting enough of a reaction out of me. I said nothing to him about his current love affair until about 6 weeks after I found out. I can only imagine how crazy that drove him. What finally came in clear to me was that he could say whatever beautiful, lovely words he wanted--to me or in public, but his BEHAVIOR is what really matters. Was he acting out of love? Were his decisions made out of concern for our family and our marriage? Did the way he talked to me show love and respect? The answer was a resounding "NO"! You don't abandon your wife when she is recovering from chemotherapy to go skiing. You don't tell your wife to go get a job and stop sitting around on her a## while she is recovering from a mastectomy. You don't steal your wife's credit card out of her wallet and charge a plane ticket without telling her. You don't have a relationship with your children's 23-year-old babysitter and expect for everyone to accept the situation. You don't decide to see your children the minimum amount for visitation and then whine to them about you never see them. You don't change jobs and houses and towns and drag you family around with you. You don't expect everyone to accomodate your every whim and desire at their own discomfort or inconvenience. These are not behaviors of a man who loves his wife and children, no matter what he says. These are the behaviors of a selfish, spoiled teenager.

#11 Sep 7 - 4PM (Reply to #32)

dolce (not verified)

dcrutche

Mine said he was on a hunger strike!! LOL Then someone told me they saw him at his high school reunion. I asked if he was eating. They laughed and said "Of course!" He is always "so depressed". He can't go out. He sits home all day. He has no purpose. No will to live. wa wa wa

#12 Sep 10 - 11PM (Reply to #33)

NanC (not verified)

THAT IS HYSTERICAL! My N one

THAT IS HYSTERICAL! My N one time bitched and moaned about how I didn't make his lunch and hadn't had anything to eat all day and how selfish I was. He didn't realize that his cell phone had accidently dialed my phone and I overheard him say, "Damn dude, that chicken fried steak was so huge, I can't even make it up this ladder!" That was sooo funny. He dropped that argument real fast! Hunger strike...that's funny right there!

#13 May 10 - 11PM

quietude (not verified)

typical

They will even lie about offing themselves in order to GAIN YOUR SYMPATHY. Mine hinted at suicide as well. He also: *Misses me terribly *Has phoned a lot *Text'd a lot *Made incredible-sounding promises for an amazing future together, full of hope, love and joy *Offered me everything under the sun to try to win me back including stuff, trips, and great times! *Offered to follow through with his promise of marriage 'this time' *Said wonderful things about me -I'm the most wonderful woman he's ever known *Begged, cried, begged, cried Sound familiar? And I've heard it all before, right after the times he's abandoned me. YES, TIMES. Meaning, I've bought the sweet talk and promises again, forgave him for everything, only for all the BS to slowly start seeping back, after I put my heart and all my efforts into the relationship again. Yep, I'm one of those who took him back THREE TIMES before I learned the very hard way. I can't help it, I still look back and think, wow - if I only stuck to my guns the first time, I would be in a much better position now. But better late than never. They are full of crap. Oh, and he's still alive, he's still a liar, a promise-breaker, has said stupid things that have proven to me over and over that he IS a Narc for sure. He is a completely disingenuous excuse for a human being, and life is good because he's gone.

#14 Sep 11 - 6AM (Reply to #28)

justwantpeace

Mine "attempted" suicide to.

Mine "attempted" suicide to. funny though he was told he wasnt suicidal by a professional. I didnt realize how many use that to manipulate you. He also told me one time the ow kept him from committing suicide. they really do try anything. working on nc with my ex. had 2 days peace then heard from him, now ive had a day and hoping today will be nc.

#15 Sep 11 - 7AM (Reply to #29)

Barbara (not verified)

justwantpeace

let your answering machine pick up!!!!!!!! get CALLER ID! BOUNDARIES... don't 'wish' or 'hope' for them - talk to your lawyer about a stiffer custody and contact document and then DRAW A LINE AND KEEP IT NO MATTER WHAT. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Narc Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck

#16 May 11 - 8AM

Barbara (not verified)

classic -- mallory

The guy's TEXTBOOK, mallory. Classic. While this article deals with BPD - Hoovering (what your STBXpieceofslime is doing) is EXACTLY The same with Narcs. Exactly: http://www.bpd411.org/hoover.html Here's a whole clickable list of behaviors these guys do: http://outofthefogsite.com/CommonBehaviors.html So let's play, What He Say VS. What He Really Means: I am so lonely, I feel so empty means: Damn you - you are on to me! Cutting me off! I can't manipulate or play games with you. GRRRRR. Man if my girlfriend knew I was telling you this, it would be no sex for a week... but it was so much fun screwing with your mind. Wahhh Wahhh Wahhh He's full of CRAP and wants his CONTROL back. Keep those Boundaries up Mallory - he's going to ramp up his game but do NOT let him get to you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ In order to fight the narcissist effectively, it is useful to know what the narcissist is up to. Again, this is - once you have taken the step back - fairly easy. You have to look at the messages and statements of the narcissist, and look out for transferences and projections. This is, whatever the narcissist does, which is morally unacceptable, (s)he will accuse you that you are doing this and will try to make you feel guilty for it. For example, if the narcissist accuses you that you are slandering her or him, you know that (s)he does it. If (s)he says you are a threat to the kids, then you know they are in some danger. Even if you can't do anything to help the children immediately, you will have to try to help them as soon as you find the means, but as mentioned above, bring yourself into safety first, heal yourself, give yourself some time and then see what you can do. - Dr. Ludger Hoffman-Engl ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#17 May 11 - 10AM (Reply to #2)

malloryforest

Three texts - could use some support.

Got three texts this morning about how he misses us, so torn up, want s to get on a plane right now and come home to us. I have ignored all texts. Part of me wants to forward to GF. will not do that. Need support. On one level, it is easy to fall back into BS. On another level, feel like I know enough not to every go back to that BS. Trying to convince me he is not a N. I am wrong, he just made a mistake do to a midlife crisis. Any support would be appreciated.

#18 Jan 29 - 7PM (Reply to #26)

agnesmurphy17

He's an N

Last week this man & you were on the phone with a financial analyst who was liquidating the college funds of the children? ANd a few days earlier this man was suggesting you & the kids go on food stamps & stay married for some does-not-make-sense reason for social security? While he eats dinner out with new woman's children? And, THIS WEEK he wants reconciliation? Every few days he has a new theme this guy. Sounds like mine in so many ways. Always something new to throw you off. No consistency. There's trouble over in paradise with new woman. Or, a divorce will ruin him financially. Or, both. A man who loves a woman does not act like life is a roller coaster. A man who loves a woman & their children is steady & calm & there with the pay check every 14 days & at bath time & reading stories & hiring a babysitter for that random Saturday nite date night with his wife.

#19 May 11 - 11AM (Reply to #3)

better off

Well then if he is not a N,

Well then if he is not a N, and just made a mistake due to a midlife crisis, he can start by not acting like a N and stop texting you trying to get YOU to feel sorry for HIM. If he made a mistake with GF, I suppose he can tell her that now, and ask her to move out. He can start acting like a man instead of a spoiled five year old and when he stops acting like a narcissist, perhaps he will stop being one. Do not, however SAY this, continue to ignore his texts. Barbara would say not to read them, either. For someone who's not a narcissist he sure keeps acting like one. The only person he continues to care about is himself.

#20 May 11 - 2PM (Reply to #25)

Barbara (not verified)

exactly

If he's not an N... then I am the tooth fairy. Believe me, I am NOT the tooth fairy... LOL I told you he would RAMP UP his behavior to get your attention... and he will continue. use DELETE! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#21 May 11 - 11AM (Reply to #4)

malloryforest

better off

Thank you. You are 100% correct that he acts like an N, he acts like a five year old, and all he cares about is himself. I KNOW i don't want him back. That is not the part that is in question. There is a tiny part of myself, that wonders if I am labeling him because it makes it much easier for me to move on if I give him some sort of diagnosis. I guess, I just need to hear from others that what I am experiencing is truly not normal behavior, not just a midlife crisis, etc. Please bear with me. I am in the process of moving out of the fog, and need the continual reminders that it was not me, and that this is not just a situation of H falling out of love with wife, and falling in love with GF. I need to hear, once again, that his behavior is pathological. That there is no way he can become a better human, husband and father. I need to know that he can never change. In my heart I know he can't, but a little part of me questions myself and my perceptions. First court appearance is on friday....

#22 May 12 - 4AM (Reply to #23)

fairy wings

reassurance

Hi better off - I think it is only natural that you are holding conflicting thoughts at the same time. I understand from what you say that you feel you are still moving out of the fog and I would like to stress, it is early days. I also understand that you have concerns as to whether you are labelling him in order to help yourself move on. I think this is perfectly understandable behaviour too. It is healthy to ponder on these things, after all you have to be happy in your own heart that you are doing the right thing; this is far better than making rash decisions based on the opinions of family and friends or what you find here and then to find you have regrets later. It all has to 'feel' right to you. We can offer opinions based on our own experiences, however you are unique just as he is. I believe there are similarities to be found between the men we are describing here and I know from working in the DV sector that when the women come together in the group they are astounded to find the patterns of behaviour are so similar, including (as Barbara has said) upping the anti when you don't respond to their game! I guess the more you read here the more you will see these patterns played out in what we say. Whether the labels are helpful or not is maybe for you to decide, however I can say from personal experience that I have found them useful as a way of trying to make sense of my ex partner's behaviour and in being able to 'box' him off so that I can move on with my own life. I believe the labels can often be helpful in the short term to help you get out of the fog, however again I would stress that you will get there in your own time. I also feel that if we make it our life mission to villify these men then we won't move on with own life, and will simply be allowing them to control us and how we spend our time from a distance. I have come to understand, again through personal experience and through working with many other women who have been through similar experiences that there is a huge difference between surviving and thriving and I will admit to still sometimes struggling with the latter from time to time. I also understand that when we give up on a relationship that we have invested in this takes time. As my sister once pointed out to me: 'leaving any relationship is a process not a single act' and leaving this type of relationship is a million times harder than leaving a lot of other types of relationships, perhaps for a million reasons too! Each and every one of us has to be sure that we are 'acting' for ourselves and not 'reacting' to him or to family and friends, or to what we read here, however I know what you read here can be a wonderful source of support and reasurance. It is also very natural to be questioning yourself and your perceptions, after all he has made sure you have lived in a state of constant spin and even now he is trying to maintain this control. I suspect that when you are able to get a little distance the 'pond' begins to clear and you can see quite clearly what is in the pond, right down to the bottom, this is your perception - then he comes a long with his lies and his distortions of the truth and his promises for the future and in doing so it's like he takes a stick to the pond and stirs it all up again. Then when you look in all you can see is murky muddy water (a bit like the fog you describe), you can no longer see the bottom of the pond because he's stirred it up again! From what you say above does it matter whether we label him or not? Whatever he did he didn't make you happy, he doesn't make you happy now. As someone else has pointed out(sorry can't remember who it was) there is a difference between falling in love with someone else and dealing with it in an adult way and doing it in the way your husband has which is to taunt you and hurt everyone else (including his girlfriend, except she doesn't know it yet) for his own selfish gain. If he really cared, and he was being an adult, he would, as someone else suggested show you through his actions that he is sincere. He would end it with the girlfriend, live alone, seek help and do all of this without even telling you, because when you are acting in an adult way this is what you do; you admit to yourself that you have a problem and you seek help for yourself regardless of the outcome. Then if your paths crossed in future he would be in a much better place for you to reconsider if you wanted to. Right now he is exactly where he was the day he left you and I suspect that even if he was capable of doing the above by the time he had, you would have moved your own life so far on he wouldn't even seem an attractive proposition anymore! I always say to the women I work with that I like to believe that people can change (because this is the most frequently asked question), however if this is possible (and maybe with some people it simply isn't) then it is up to that person to change themselves; it isn't your job to change him. Neither is it your job to wait around while he does this. He messed up, not you, you have already accomodated your life to take account of this, so do yourself a favour, be strong, and focus on what you can change; you and your life and your attitude to him. And by the way there is no rule that says you have to answer his texts. When you are really serious about changing, you will change your number and get all contact through a third party. I hope you find this reassuring. You sound as though you are a lovely, kind sensitive person who simply does not know where to start in drawing up boundaries (which I'm sure to you feels like you are being unkind);you are not, you are simply showing him there is a line he can no longer cross. My guess is that when you do this he won't seek help to change, because this means he would have to look at himself which would be far too hard, he will simply find another source of supply and he already has this in the form of an insurance policy, called a 'girlfriend'.

#23 May 12 - 6AM (Reply to #24)

Barbara (not verified)

The dichotomy of loving and yet loathing

"The women in the survey are capable of great love. They invest deeply and emotionally in their relationships. As we learned in earlier chapters, the psychopath has an inability to love. So instead, the psychopath has spent time pouring on the faux-love and committing love fraud with her. His mere attachment has mimicked her total bonding. She believes he loves her the way she loves him. The fast pace of the relationship doesnâ€™t leave her much time to contemplate the issue of love. All she feels is this magnetic pull into an emotional and sexual vortex that she canâ€™t free herself from. She mistakes intensity for love and passion for bonding. It doesnâ€™t take the psychopath long to test the depths of her love (and tolerance) and to figure out he has a lot of wiggle room in the relationship to abuse. And so the abuse begins; lying, cheating, infidelity, stealing, or whatever he chooses to do. The psychopath realizes that he can dominate her because she does in fact love him. His abuses of her trust and love are rooted in his sheer joy of power and dominance. As the women begin to see the other side of the psychopathâ€™s mask, they recognize some of his lies and inconsistencies. This recognition causes loathing of him. They have dealt with some of the other dichotomies of being devalued, rejected and threatened. They have also felt distrust. Women often uncover the psychopathâ€™s hidden lives, criminality, other women, sexually transmitted diseases, and other aspects of the psychopathâ€™s life that he has lied about. Churning beneath the surface, is her loathing of him. She loathes his lies, his deviancy, his disorder, and she may loath herself for loving him, even in the midst of everything she finds out. The deep bonding she hasâ€”her excessive tolerance and relationship investment is a double bind for her. She loves and she loathes. â€œItâ€™s to the point now that I cringe when I am around him. I used to feel sorry for how sick he obviously is. Now I feel repulsed. He is revolting.â€ Almost all of the women said they felt the dichotomy of loving and hating him at the same time. Crimes of passion occur this way when the pathological love attachment is fierce and the betrayal is equally as fierce. The love bond transcends hate, so she remains bonded in spite of her loathing." Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS (note: just my observation but by coming to a board about Narcs - you have already labeled him) ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#24 May 11 - 12PM (Reply to #5)

better off

His behavior is

His behavior is pathological. ;) I don't think it's a midlife crisis. For one thing I don't quite "believe in" the media myth of the midlife crisis anyway. Look... I fell in love with someone else. I felt guilty about it, I didn't want to hurt my H even though he was hurting me so much. I was torn up inside trying to figure out what to do because I was so in love and truly believed I had met the person I was "supposed" to be with (something that I have to struggle with still, so I know how you feel)...and I felt like my marriage was over and my husband WAS at fault..yet I felt like it would have been horrible to leave my marriage for another man, even if I thought it was the right man. I was torn in half. It was devastating. And on top of that I'd look at my kids and think...how can I tell them that I loved someone else so much that I put them through this? I loved my kids more. Anyway, I NEVER paraded it around in front of him, or told him he just had to understand that I needed my boyfriend and he had anger problems if he didn't like it. I would fully expect him to be angry!! I might have said tough shit, that's what you get, but I wouldn't have acted OFFENDED by it. What kind of person doesn't get angry about that? I didn't ever once expect to have my cake and eat it too. I didn't want my H finding out unless I was ready to end it for good, not cry and say feel sorry for me because I love this guy. That's sick and demented to ask your spouse to have any compassion for you at all when you're in love with someone else, even IF the spouse is bad, and you aren't bad!!! It's inhuman. That is NOT a midlife crisis. Even if we had split and I'd run away with my lover, I wouldn't have expected my HUSBAND to feel sorry for ME. I would expect him to hate me. And I wouldn't have cared if he did, because I was with someone else. As it turns out, the other man wanted NO part of that. (When we met, and HE was pursuing ME, btw, I told him I could only give him half. He said he'd gladly take it because he was madly in love with me and the alternative was nothing...so if that's how it had to be, then so be it. If it could be otherwise we'd already be halfway around the world together, he said. I think it was more that he never wanted more than half...half was quite enough. I learned that I don't know how to love half-way. And the ambivalence nearly drove me mad. I'm not cut out for affairs.)

#25 May 11 - 1PM (Reply to #6)

Fawn

Mid-Life Crisis

I agree with better off. A Mid-Life Crisis looks different, from what I understand. Your husband's behavior isn't new. I don't think that it is a coincidence that your court date is this week and that NOW he is sorry and loves you and regrets his mistake. He knows that he is going to look like a real jerk in court without you covering for him. This is a classic tactic of abusive men. They want to make up before some public appearance because they need YOU to protect them and their image. Judges can see right through these fakes, but it is hard for you because you aren't objective enough right now. Keep doing what you are doing, taking care of yourself and your children, and you will be glad you did someday. The more that you can step back and see him for what he really is.

#26 May 11 - 2PM (Reply to #7)

cassiemay

misc. related.....

I found myself feeling horrible a couple of nights ago. Similar to others here I have a court date coming up and expect a "full on" offensive against me for some of the stupid things I've done during our separation. I'm sorry that this is long, but I would appreciate honest feedback and perhaps? it will help others. I don't know. I don't know whether to trust my own intuitions and feelings or if I am totally off-base. So...for those of you have the patience to read, here goes: HOW TO UNDERSTAND A dog is financially, physically and emotionally dependent upon its' owner. So: 1) If the dog is emotionally abused, yelled at, needs ignored or not met, he will first cower and try to appease (licks, wags, roll-overs) "See me?" If this does not work then would one blame the dog if eventually he began to be more aggressive in the context of ignorance or verbal abuse? Perhaps he begins to scratch at the door, to bark, to beg again for attention, even to growl in the face of the perpetrator. Or to withdraw as well... just cowereing and going away, hoping for some sign of love and sustenance. When confronted again with the same treatment will he not try again to get the attention he needs? The food and water and shelter he needs from a previous source? Love of master still prevails and he has few other choices. 2) If the owner adopts a new dog and gives to that dog all of his attention, food, energy, would one blame the older, previous dog for exhibiting signs of jealousy or distress? (Attacking the new dog, destroying his toys? Destroying the owner's possessions to show unhappiness and resentment or hurt?) Would we say that it is the dog's fault? Or was he reacting to the situation and stimuli with which he was confonted, with no power to change it? The dog reacts with instinct to abandonment and abuse. To say the "owner" made him do it is not entirely wrong. Humans have more intellectual options yet still respond instinctively. No, he didn't "make" me do anything. (best or worst line of AA, forgive me), but to ignore his contribution to my emotionas and understandable reactions is like "blaming the dog" or "blaming the victim". Oh yes, she did or did not do this and this and nothing worked anyway. She was abandoned, financially and emotionally vulnerable, but that was "Entirely Her Problem?" After sacrificing yerars of productive emplyment opportunities for the betterment of our life together? After moving so many times, which she tried every way possible to circumvent, after contributing her income and inheritance to our mutual goals and advancement? After at least 18 years of a "good" marriage? After loyalty and sacrificing her own needs? So then, the dog develops health problems: Not only now is he neglected, starved for attention and made to work for "food and shelter", he is now villified and abandoned for his physical needs and problems. "I never wanted an overweight dog or a dog that had an ongoing disease. You are a burden and you don't meet my needs anymore". Go to a shelter. Someone else will care for you. Is this the dog's fault? The dog that has been trying to run by his side, to get the affection previously given? If the dog, in reaction to owner taking out newly adopted dog for a walk, jumps on the counter and eats a loaf of bread or knocks things down? Dog's fault? She is punished for such behavior and labeled "out of control" and "crazy". Sent away once and for all: let someone else take care of her. She was mine once, but is not longer my responsibility, even if no one else adopts her or she can't fend for herself in the wild. "Too bad." Turn the page.

#27 May 11 - 5PM (Reply to #22)

fairy wings

Dog

This is amazing 'food for thought'. I know I am going to ponder this for a long time. It makes me think I wasn't so crazy to feel so much rejection after all! Thank you.

#28 May 11 - 2PM (Reply to #21)

Fawn

dog

Just do as little talking as possible in court and let your lawyer lead the way. Trust me, if your Narcissist is anything like mine, he will talk enough for both of you and trip himself up in the process. Think of how many liars, manipulators, and crazy people judges see every day. They can see through all of the bulls**t.

#29 May 11 - 2PM (Reply to #8)

malloryforest

pictures

HE KEEPS SENDING ME PICTURES OF HIMSELF!!!

#30 May 11 - 4PM (Reply to #20)

Barbara (not verified)

ROFLMAO

If ever there was a "LOOK AT ME" moment - this is it. Show them to your attorney. MAKE your attorney call HIS attorney and ask why he is sending his STBXwife PICTURES OF HIMSELF????? My God he is hysterical. I am crying I am laughing so hard. Mallory - if there was ever a QUESTION whether he's a Narc? He just ANSWERED it for you. In fact, he's skating WELL into Psychopath territory. (Did you read WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS yet??) What a complete a**hat! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#31 May 11 - 2PM (Reply to #9)

Fawn

Pictures

Is he crying in the pictures. Is he trying that certain "look" that he knows gets you? Mine tries these things still, you know how men are, they think that we will cave if they say the perfect line or give us "the look" that used to make us melt. Mine drove to my house the other day to bring the kids back without his shirt on. Who knows what he was thinking? I was thinking, God, what a redneck, driving around without a shirt. He was probably thinking, I'm so youthful and lean and Hot! She will feel really bad about not wanting me. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Are you starting to feel powerful yet? He is a doofus.

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