Are good men a really small minority? Are most men narcs? In fact, are there any good men at all?

I feel like there is just so few good men that I am becoming bitter and twisted about them. Seriously I find myself giving complete strange men filthy looks of disgust. This isn't good! I feel so disillusioned by them and seriously think that they are all just obsessed with their penis and have an inability to truly care about anything other than themselves.
Today I have been on a web design course and it was mostly male dominated. The one next to me just seemed to show off all the time about the number of staff he employed, his boat, his football season ticket as if he was just trying to proove how rich he was!! I feigned interest and not once did he ask anything about me! Same goes for most of the others trying to come accross as oh so important! Common polite exchange of conversation seemed to be non existant as they only wanted to talk about themselves! Is it because I'm narc aware that I am looking for signs all the time or are most men just selfish pricks? Recently I just feel like I can't stand men and feel like ~I'm turning into a bitter woman, like my innocent trusting nature has gone. I used to see the best in men but now I only see the worse. In fact I don't see any good in men at all. Help! Need my faith restored somehow!

Hermes's picture

The N-experience leaves one feeling decidedly strange and off-centre. There are good, decent and normal men out there, and no, narcissists are not the majority. Problem is that the N gave the impression of being ultra-normal, the real deal, the whole package. No human being, man or woman, can be that (seemingly) perfect. I remember, a long time ago, reading on a forum one poster who said she would never meet again a man who would make her feel as the N did. With any luck no one will ever be made to feel as the N made us feel!!. But I know what she meant: the high-octane, tawdry technicolour world of the N, constantly on edge. Other, normal, men, with their foibles and faults, will seem "boring" by comparison, "boring" meaning that they are not verbally, emotionally and physically abusive. It takes a while, quite a long while, to get rid of the N-sludge. And it is time well spent to love ourselves, to be kind to ourselves, and become healthy. Meantime, as an aid towards detecting the N-individual (and perhaps some of you will have read this article before) I think this is invaluable: http://www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html This is a short excerpt: "Quick Attachment and Expression "The Loser" has very shallow emotions and connections with others. One of the things that might attract you to "The Loser" is how quickly he or she says "I Love You" or wants to marry or commit to you. Typically, in less than a few weeks of dating you'll hear that you're the love of their life, they want to be with you forever, and they want to marry you. You'll receive gifts, a variety of promises, and be showered with their attention and nice gestures. This is the "honeymoon phase" - where they catch you and convince you that they are the best thing that ever happened to you. Remember the business saying "If it's too good to be true it probably is (too good to be true)!" You may be so overwhelmed by this display of instant attraction, instant commitment, and instant planning for the future that you'll miss the major point - it doesn't make sense!! Normal, healthy individuals require a long process to develop a relationship because there is so much at stake. Healthy individuals will wait for a lot of information before offering a commitment - not three weeks. It's true that we can become infatuated with others quickly - but not make such unrealistic promises and have the future planned after three dates. The rapid warm-up is always a sign of shallow emotions which later cause "The Loser" to detach from you as quickly as they committed. "The Loser" typically wants to move in with you or marry you in less than four weeks or very early in the relationship. "
JRB123's picture

Thank you for the amazing thought provoking replies. Lots of things to think about and many different perspectives - yet I can relate to all of them. I am well on the way to healing yet I think the experience has changed me as a person. Maybe I needed to change? I'm not the soft fluffy gullible person I was once who saw the good in everyone. However that's not such a bad thing - the rose tinted specs are off and I'm hyper alert now! It's certainly been a rollercoaster! Many thanks to everyone on this board - it's really been invaluable in the whole healing process.
Done sourcing's picture

Let's just say that there are no good men anywhere. Now what are you going to do? I'm going through a stage now where I need to re-examine all of my beliefs and thought systems. So my answer to you is that maybe a bit of time should be used looking at what is wrong with us that a relationship with a man (or in my case a woman) can't fix. I am not defending the narc assclowns that we got screwed by...I'm saying there are fucked up people everywhere, and we should consider taking this time to work on us, instead of focus on what is wrong with others. I think we here who have been deceived and narced stand at a crossroads. This time affords us an excellent opportunity to reflect on our lives, our successes and our failures. Looking at our fundamental values, our expectations and perhaps even our demands that we place on others. What is it we expect out of life that requires we have another being connected to us so closely. My experience in this devastation has been that my relationship with God is the one that I need to work on. I know that when my relationship with God is right, all things will be dropped into my lap with no real effort on my part at all...except that I must do the giving and the loving, knowing that it is in that that I will be filled and complete. This process has been necessary to get my attention focused on what is of real value. Look how much time most of us spend on trying to keep these sick r/s alive....look how hard it is for us to let go of them...look how most of us resist moving on...none of that is the fault of the narc. It is all on us. That is the way I see it...I know it will piss some off here...but we are all entitled to our opinions...and are free to express them here as long as we don't attack others or demand that our way is the right way. It is just the right way for me now, and it makes sense to me. ds
lillymarch's picture

Very well said and exactly what I'm doing. And I'd like to add: our society really pushes being in a relationship. Most TV shows, commercials, and songs on the radio are about the so called love between two people in a relationship. This is a lot of pressure and so full of bull! Why do we want to jump back into another relationship? What are we lacking in our lives? I built my life on my relationship and the 'family' that I thought that relationship gave me. When you build your life on God, (if you don't believe in God change to you), everything can fall down around you and your left with the only thing that can help you. The only truth. I know there are good men out there and when the time comes I will meet that man. But for now I'm so happy becoming the best me possible, loving my life and thanking God!
tynk3377's picture

What your feeling/seeing is the removal of the *rose colored glasses*... The N's did such a job on us that yes they have tainted our view of other men (and sometimes woman (friends))... In the process of leaving my N, I also lost my best friend of many many years because seeing and accepting the truth of my being abused by N, I also had to see the abuse I was taking at her hand as well. There are good men and woman out there, just some times hard to spot without those damn glasses... "Into the light" has pointed out something I want to share...she said she went out with a male friend of hers that she knew for 20 yrs...sometimes those gems are right under our noses and we miss them because we don't feel that pull we did with the *macho (ha ha) N's...they were all about being all over us and making us feel so damn good in the beginning we related that to feeling *it*..... Well I too had a friend I knew many many years...we just kept missing the boat because either he or I was always in a relationship. After my divorce, he asked me out for dinner...no major sparks, no major feelings of being drawn to him, actually no major anything...and honestly, we moved so slow...but we were friends...It took me a while to see he was, in his own way, always there for me. He knew what I had gone threw with the N, and he was very patient, very understanding, and where as I thought I was doing the *girly* thing and letting him set the pace, after months I realized he was again in his own subtle way letting me set the pace...with no major sparks flying this was actually easier that with the N relationship of hurry hurry rush rush.... Instead of an *instant relationship* like with the N's, this one took many months to unfold...I started to realize THIS is what real love feels like...slow and steady not fast and bumpy... Yes they are out there and sometimes right under our noses...I do believe now that the greatest love is the most subtle love...the one that just sneaks up on you when you least expect it and realize you love this man... So unlike the fast and furious ride the N's take us on and then tell us we love them and make us believe that the feeling in our gut isn't our defenses kicking in but a passionate love for them...if we only knew...
Syren66's picture

I think it depends on where you're at in life. Yes, there are good men out there. Just that as we age, we all accumulate more baggage. By the time you get to my age, some people have acquired a virtual lifetime of it. So ALL of us tend to be more cynical, less trusting and less open. This doesn't make someone a narc...it just makes us a hell of a lot smarter than we used to be...when we used to rush headlong into a relationship...now we hesitate. I've met a lot of self-centered, spoiled, entitled bitch-asses in my life...this seems to permeate all age groups to some degree and I think more so with the younger generation than those of my generation. I think where you live and the cultural norms with regard how children are raised affects how those in your area view relationships as adults. I'm not so sure I buy into the high testosterone theory, because I've met more whiny, sniveling, crybaby, victim narcs than macho types.
ordinarycourage's picture

want to go back to being naive and trusting? We're not bitter - we're better!
onwithmylife's picture

I am not bitter but VERY discouraged about ever finding a single, decent man that I like and visa versa in all areas. I have been over 2 plus years out of narkdom and still cannot meet any decent, men i feel attracted to. The one i did feel any connection with after 7 dates turned out to be very self absorbed, asked very little about me, a mommy's boy and had issues with his mother and grown daughters and his second wife left him, now I know why and he still cannot understand why, since their marriage was so 'perfect.' yea right... so many men do think with their penis and never their heads!!!
ifinallygotit's picture

High testosterone males are the most attractive to us, big and strong, but this hormone makes them tend to: Be sexy Cheat Be violent with both men and women Have little emotion, decreases ability to cry Impatient Non communicative divorce tend towards crime, reckless behavior In general, the hormone really impacts their brain chemistry It would be interesting to correlate this factor with narcs. My exN was very high T ! I think there are plenty of nice men out there and that we just don't want them. We need to learn how to be attracted to the softer hearted kinder ones who may not be King of the jungle. I am very athletic so I have a hard time getting attracted to dough boys! I really do think alot of the awful stuff with men is their bio-chemistry...
Winter's picture

I agree with everything you wrote. Especially, for the part about us, who needs "to learn how to be attracted to the softer hearted kinder ones" instead of being fooled and traped by our own hormones. It is all in our power to reprogram our mind. And those "soft" nice guys happen to be very strong and reliable compare to the "hard" narcs tarzans who just look like strong, but when it comes to the matter turn out coward and weak.
Sea's picture

Hard narcs are only good to look at. They are useless when we needed real protection. They are so scared that the first thing they do is run away! Very pathetic but very true from my experience. They cannot weather any storm with us in life. Everything is so superficial and shallow. They are disordered so this is best they could do.
into the light's picture

I totally agree about the high testosterone. I felt sexually addicted to my ex after he left me. Some part of me still feels like that, but the craving for him, and him alone, is not nearly as strong now (3 months NC). Yesterday I went out with a male friend (single, I know him well, have known him for 20 years. He is no saint, but he is NOT disordered) and I started to feel something between us... maybe. He is the opposite to Mr Bragpants, much more sensitive and honest. The charismatic high T 'glow' wasn't there, nor that pulling chemistry, but I didn't want it to be, and anyway he knows what I've been through - he is clued up on psychopathy - so I guess he was being very cautious. I don't know if anything will come of this, but at least he made me feel attractive and perhaps lovable again. Even if we just develop a deeper friendship it will be welcome. All the other men I know are in relationships, so it felt good to be with someone who was kind to me, who I felt was looking after me in a sincere way.
Sea's picture

Hormones! Yes exN is all of what u described. He is tarzen, i am jane! Haha
terri's picture

“As long as you know men are like children, you know everything!" This is a famous quote from Coco Chanel - who partnered with many famous and powerful men in her lifetime and yet still never married any of them. She rebuffed the idea of marriage for herself in her twenties, seeing that what would truly fulfill her life would be creating her own wealth and power on her own. She went on to create one of the most impressive and influential fashion empires in the world - which is still on top. If I had a dollar for everytime I asked myself the same question you've asked in your posting, I'd retire to Paris myself. Yes, there are men out there who are worth having but they're hard to find. While we're looking, let's love ourselves MORE and worry less about them. And for some crazy reason, that will make you even more attractive to the right man, when he does come along!

Believe in yourself!
Terri

spinning's picture

a re-writing of the script here. In my experience, when a man feels a great need to "relate to you" (read BORE YOU) with all their accomplishments and trappings, it means HE IS TRYING TO IMPRESS YOU. He is trying to impress you because: You're hot. You're interesting. You're in a class in a male dominated field so that automatically makes you different from most women he knows. You do not fit the stereotypical role of most women he knows. He thinks you will FALL ALL OVER HIM because that is what many women might do if regaled by such information like wealth, status, etc. It's actually kind of funny, and you should feel complimented (I know it seems a stretch) by his behavior. YOU'VE GOT IT GOIN ON, GIRLFRIEND, FOR some stranger to go in PEACOCK MODE to impress you! I'd also like to add that it has been my observation that many men are selfish and self-absorbed. But not all. I have met a few really interesting, funny, fun, and believe it or not HOT men who know exactly who they are, are fun to hang around, and are not self-absorbed slobs. So try not to be discouraged about the male species. Innocence and trust are great but not necessary traits to have to know something good when you see it. Innocence and trust are what got us here. I like knowing the real deal when I see it better than being bamboozled because of my naivete. Good men are out there, JRB. I never ever thought I'd run across any, but lo and behold when I was least expecting it, I did. I believe this will happen for you, too, JRB! Hugs to you and good vibes for continued clarity from, (not) spinning. AND IT FEELS GREAT!

spinning

Lisa87's picture

There are a few good men out there somewhere, I know of a handful. With all the texting etc. people are too accessible to everyone and its an open field for cheating etc. Most of the good ones I know are married (not happily). Its good to have your wall up and on the lookout for red flags etc. I do look at most men as jerks and only after one thing. Most of my friends are married to jerks too so my faith needs restoring too! This is my 2nd time around and I'm not settling for anyone's BS that's all I know. My brother is a great guy and my SIL is a bitch. All the good men I know are married to bitches and I'm not a bitch so i get stuck with the P's or N's of the world.......ugh
uk lady's picture

I feel it really depends on where you are with your path forward and healing. I am prob, most days, 75% there out of the mire with my ex but know that I am constantly on P/N alert. The male gender are by nature competitive so maybe being in a predominately male environment brings their competitiveness out stronger. Who knows, and ultimately, who cares? As long are you are alert if any of them were hitting on you. Regardless of the size of their nether regions which, I hope, weren't on display. LOL More seriously though. Yes, I feel that I am generally more aware of P/N behaviour in every aspect of my life but I would like to feel that I would now recognise someone who displays more acceptable initial attributes than my ex because I am now more aware and will just recognise the red flags. BUT have to add that I am taking things much slower and concentrating on myself and being aware of my needs before addressing those of others, no matter who or what, and what they represent in my life. Hope my input helped. Dee x