Are all Narcissists also Sociopaths?

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#1 Mar 10 - 5PM
baddream
baddream's picture

Are all Narcissists also Sociopaths?

I was talking about ex-N today with one of his ex-friends who also got burnt by him. He believes ex-N is definitely a sociopath and sent me this link. Ex-N has every single one of the characteristics.. this is HIM.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

In the early 1800's these people were labeled "Moral Insanity"!

Mar 12 - 11AM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

the food chain............

-----ALL Psychopaths/Sociopaths are NARCISSISTS...but not Narcs are Psychopaths/Sociopaths.....but ALL Narcs,Psychopaths and Sociopaths are ASSHOLES.... My blog
Mar 12 - 10PM (Reply to #13)
wallaby (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

LOL well put!!

Yes perhaps there should be an AXIS 3 personality disorders category where all three could be grouped under the "A**hole Personality Disorders"
Mar 13 - 1AM (Reply to #14)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

there already is

CLUSTER B: Histrionic Narcissist Antisocial (Sociopath & Psychopathy) Borderline ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Mar 10 - 7PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

baddream

NO! this is EXACTLY why I beg people to please please troll around ALL the pages of the message board as this has been discussed many many many time before.... sigh All Socio/Psychopaths are Narcissists NOT all Narcissists are Sociopaths... the spectrum only runs in ONE DIRECTION the more exploitative they are - the closer to sociopathy they go. a sociopath is usually much less socially adept and has problems with people than a psychopath. it's an even thinner line than the one between Ns and Ps for sure. http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/06/22/narcissist-or-sociopath-whats-difference http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/06/09/strange-narcissistic-psychopathic-behaviors http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/05/06/60-million-persons-u-s-negatively-affected-someone-elses-pathology http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/08/06/mary-jo-buttafuocos-new-book-aims-help-others-living-sociopaths the moral insanity moniker has all been discussed NUMEROUS times too. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Mar 11 - 9PM (Reply to #10)
baddream
baddream's picture

Not so clear.-Barbara

I am sorry if I did not notice this had been posted before, it did not come to my attention.. The original post was 39 weeks ago and I did not have recollection of it. Clearly this is a topic that is still of interest. If we have had this discussion before, does that mean there is not anything to add to it and it should be considered a closed matter and not put forward again? Perhaps there are new members of the forum who did not see the original discussion, or have something new to add to it. I am asking, so I will know in the future, not to post anything that is related to anything posted before. I did go on to read the links you attached to your post, and do not agree with your statement that it goes only one way.. Specifically the statement "All Socio/Psychopaths are Narcissists" The reason I disagree with this statement comes from Steve Becker's article that you attached which attempts to distinguish the two, specifically: "The less validating you are, the less worth you have for the narcissist. The less exploitable you are, the less worth you have for the sociopath." There are many traits that narcissists and sociopaths have in common which is why in some cases it is difficult to make a distinction. There is one key difference-- narcissists require their victims to validate them, and sociopaths are often in it only to exploit their victims (for the game). Neither narcissists or sociopaths feel empathy for others, but narcissists feel their own pain (and emptiness) deeply, whereas sociopaths feel nothing. When you stated that all sociopaths are narcissists you implied that they need the same supply-driven validation and this is not true. They only require that their victim is available for exploitation. This is not the same as NS (narcissistic supply) I would think the reverse statement "narcissists are sociopaths" is closer to the truth--- it would be impossible to use a victim for constant supply-validation, without (either directly or indirectly) exploiting them at he same time. Sorry for the ramble (sigh....!), but I felt this was an interesting and relevant subject.
Mar 12 - 1PM (Reply to #11)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

bad to worse

first - if you had looked around the message board more deeply - you would have seen this post. second - that's not a statement - that's fact from the American Psychiatric Association. Cluster Bs only run ONE WAY. Narcissists can get worse and became Socio or Psychopaths... dragging their Narcissistic traits with them. Additionally Socio or Psychopaths have all the traits of a Narcissist PLUS PLUS PLUS the things that move them up that scale. Socio/ Psychopaths can NOT back track to be just Narcissists. Ever. Once you have moved up that scale, you've changed not just your behavior but the pathways in your brain. Science has proven this. Clearly. The spectrum goes one way. bad to worse the problem lies in that there are clinicians who are loathe to diagnose Socio- or Psychopathy and just call them Narcissists. There are victims who refuse to see that their Narcissist/ abuser is much worse than they thought (I was one of those people for a long time). Then you have clinicians who believe Narcissists are just "ambulatory Socio- or Psychopaths." Any way you slice it there is no way to "deal" with these turds other than putting as much distance between you & them. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Mar 10 - 11PM (Reply to #2)
wallaby (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Barbara can you clarify

the sentence above where you wrote: a sociopath is usually much less socially adept and has problems with people than a psychopath. Maybe you meant narcissist in one of these spots? If so which one?
Mar 11 - 8AM (Reply to #3)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

wallaby

I was not talking about Narcissists... the cluster B line is VERY fine Narcissists are IMMATURE Sociopaths are socially "bizarre" ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Mar 11 - 10PM (Reply to #9)
wallaby (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

thanks

I get it - we had three diagnoses in discussion -Sociopaths Psychopaths and N's. In my mind I was alternating between sociopath and psychopath thinking they were the same. From my days way back in clinical psych I did not recall a diagnosis on Psychopath on Axis 2. I know what you mean though having worked with Axis 2 diagnoses in therapy (training in psych clinics). It is hard to know where the lines between them are - especially the charming snakes we discuss on this site. They all get blurry. I distinctly remember, though, the drama of Borderline PD and can "feel" that in someone the way I can pick up classic narcissism now. The narcissists always felt brittle and laughably haughty to me, with the borderlines I knew I would be getting calls in the middle of the night, suicide attempts, cutting etc.
Mar 11 - 8AM (Reply to #4)
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

and Psychopaths?

...are dangerous and may have a history of violence (or not)...but perhaps even more dangerous because they are narcissists AND psycho's...AND can be socially adept and appear as a "Prince Charming" Mr. Great Guy, without any RED Flags initially...(they may not stand out in society as 'weird'...but instead appear like 'the boy next door' sort...with a possible positive role in a community...or even the workplace, etc. (think Ted Bundy, ETC.) Is this right Barbara?
Mar 11 - 8AM (Reply to #5)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

girlfriend

exactly. For instance - Bundy, Gacy, Rader, Peterson - blended right in: Psychopaths Dahmer, for example? Sociopath - socially retarded... a strange loner. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Mar 11 - 10AM (Reply to #6)
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

Add My EX Psycho BF's Name to the List

He hasn't killed anyone...yet...but I recognize an element about him deep within his psyche that makes him capable of it. I think if he didn't value his 'image' as 'Prince Charming' so much...he could be a rapist and serial killer...It is scary to say..but I have seen moments and flashes of that level of rage & ability to kill in him. And the only thing that makes him 'stand out' in a crown...is how friendly, social, professional, charming, tall and attractive he is. The BEST disguise of all for a psychopath. Wish I could post his picture here...it would blow everyone away...because he is very good-looking and appears so stable (looks like a model from GQ magazine, tall dark and handsome...devastatingly CHARMING, and cultivates a 'ladies man image'...little would anyone EVER know that he has been arrested for violence, and even recieved a letter from the Minister of Justice deeming him an aggressive/violent and unstable personality with potential danger to society as well as a threat to the health and wellfare of his own little boys.! (I have a copy of that letter! :-)
Mar 11 - 11AM (Reply to #7)
rache
rache's picture

My ex psycho

RAGES at the drop of a hat
Mar 13 - 12PM (Reply to #8)
ForeverLearning
ForeverLearning's picture

Red Zone Rage

Mine too - he self admittedly goes into a "Red Zone" where he feels no pain and can't hear or see anything else but his target of rage. Like a raging bull or bear or whatever.